How many AP Classes do kids actually need?

[gretchenindisguise]

We are in course selection mode for current 9th grader.

She has aspirations of Ivy League and is really smart, but I also worry about burnout and anxiety.

She thinks she needs a million of them. I know we have parents who have been there, hs counselors and college admissions folks here. What advice should I give her? Any recommended websites for me?

[erbear]

I tell kids to pick and choose. There’s no need to take all APs or honors. They will burn out and they will not enjoy school. Kids should choose 2-4 classes they love and push themselves with those on an honors / AP level.

Wait: I missed she is a 9th grader. 2, 3 tops would be my rec. what APs are open to freshmen? I’ve never heard of that.

I’m biased. I don’t think APs are valuable. I went to an Ivy League school and I couldn’t use any of the credits.

[campermom]

AP is out. Dual enrollment is in.
Especially in my area where dual enrollment at community college is free and transfers easily.

They are taking honors instead. The AP test sometimes happens in May even through the class is taken 1st semester, costs money, and doesn’t get accepted into college (sometimes).

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 30, 2024 21:53:13 GMT -5 erbear said:

I tell kids to pick and choose. There’s no need to take all APs or honors. They will burn out and they will not enjoy school. Kids should choose 2-4 classes they love and push themselves with those on an honors / AP level.

Wait: I missed she is a 9th grader. 2, 3 tops would be my rec. what APs are open to freshmen? I’ve never heard of that.

I meant total for the HS career.

So if she needed 8 in total she would have to take 2-3 per year.

They are on a 4x4 college like schedule where their classes are only a semester long, so they move fast.

[W.T.Faulkner]

She should take the ones that she’s genuinely interested in and align with her strengths. I would do two max as a tenth grader, three max per year after that (and, really, should still only be two).

My kids who were accepted early decision to an Ivy this year did not max out on APs. They did, however, take mostly honors courses and four years of science, four years of a language, etc.

Dual enrollment isn’t an option everywhere; AP does seem more widely available still. Despite the fact that I believe CollegeBoard to be among the most money-grubbing, overtly evil, yet widely accepted and trusted American organization, second perhaps only to the NFL, I do think that taking AP classes can be valuable if the student is authentically interested in the course content.

Edit: It’s absolutely fine for her to aspire to Ivy League colleges, but try to introduce her to others that might pique her interest early on, too. The truth is that these days she could take 4 billion APs, found a pediatric hospital, discover a new species of baboon and speak three languages and STILL get denied at an Ivy. Their acceptance rates hover between 4 and 7% these days. There are a ton of schools with acceptance rates between 20 and 40% that are worth exploring.  

[eb777888]

David is in Honors Math and Honors Latin. He has never had a hard time maintaining high grades, even with honors, but doesn't have Ivy League goals.

eta: Hmmm, David's school only offers honors language and honors math in 9th, so can't really speak to the other subjects. I don't really see him in honors for the other subjects, they're sufficiently challenging so probably wouldn't go that route even it they were available. 

He wants to do dual enrollment, and the plan starts in 10 grade and I'm a little iffy about it. Ultimately I'm leaving it up to him but I feel like it would be so stressful. Maybe some other parents can speak on it, because I'd like to know too.

[gretchenindisguise]

I don't think her school does dual enrollment, it hasn't come up in any of the course selection materials we have.

[devonpow]

Our high school - which is one of the top in the state - doesn’t even open AP classes up until junior year. Most kids do 1-2 junior year then a few senior year. My DS is a junior and doing APUSH but that’s it - the only other option junior year was AP chem, on top of their regular bio class, and he’s not interested in going into science so it made no sense.

He’s doing all honors and has been since 9th, and doing 4 years of an honors language, etc (taking beyond minimum requirements) . His senior year will focus on APs/honors classes that fit his interests/what he is applying for.

A lot of kids go Ivy League here - it’s not about number of APs but showing you take challenging courses and have an interest/story to tell about who you are as a student.

[minzy]

I have no expertise in this area but read this book recently and found it super interesting: jeffselingo.com/books/who-gets-in-and-why/

[1confused1]

I don’t have an answer, but my son just talked to an Ivy about playing baseball for them and they ended the conversation when he told them he wasn’t going to take any AP classes.

[fn2187]

One consideration in case it matters for those doing dual enrollment. If your kids obtain enough credits to receive an associate degree upon high school graduation, they may be disqualified from particular scholarships as they are considered a transfer student and not an incoming freshman. School dependent as well.

[formerlyak]

We are in the thick of it and the general guidance I’ve been told is that top schools look for students to have challenges themselves with the most rigorous coursework at their high school. Every high school sends a school report to the colleges with the application, so the admissions officers know what’s the norm at a high school and what students went beyond that.

Having a “story” that shows who you are is also important compared to when I applied and a laundry list of activities I tried was important.

DS is top 20 in his class of 750. He did not take AP language or AP English, but focused his APs on STEM. He will complete high school with 8 APs, 4 honors courses and 3 dual enrollment courses.

So far he’s been admitted to all four of the colleges we have heard a decision from and was invited to interview for Stanford. He didn’t apply to any Ivies, but applied to top 20 public flagship schools.

I will add his English teacher, who has been teaching 30 years and will be retiring this year, told me his personal statement is one of the best he’s ever read. I truly believe his personal statement helped him.

[sadlebred]

How are these kids doing so many AP classes? Are they only one semester long now? Can you take them any time in HS? Back in the day you took them Junior and Senior year only after 2-3 years of honors classes. Dual enrollment wasn't a thing back with the Flintstones.

[eb777888]

Jan 30, 2024 23:03:44 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

How are these kids doing so many AP classes? Are they only one semester long now? Can you take them any time in HS? Back in the day you took them Junior and Senior year only after 2-3 years of honors classes. Dual enrollment wasn't a thing back with the Flintstones.

LOL! It's so confusing. All of the college meetings start for him next week actually (mainly because of the dual credit thing). But I'm so.confused.

I wasn't in honors in school, but don't recall honors for every subject? H was in honors but his school only offered honors math. Things have changed since the 90's!

[AdaraMarie]

Jan 30, 2024 23:03:44 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

How are these kids doing so many AP classes? Are they only one semester long now? Can you take them any time in HS? Back in the day you took them Junior and Senior year only after 2-3 years of honors classes. Dual enrollment wasn't a thing back with the Flintstones.

We just went to the open house for the high school tonight and our neighborhood shool offers 25 AP classes. The middle school honors kids are placed into AP Human Geography in 9th grade. And since it is recommended for them to take 4 years in the core subjects, it seems like the kids who are honors tracked run out of "regular" classes in some subjects after 10th or 11th grade.
So I can see how some kids rack them up.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 30, 2024 23:03:44 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

How are these kids doing so many AP classes? Are they only one semester long now? Can you take them any time in HS? Back in the day you took them Junior and Senior year only after 2-3 years of honors classes. Dual enrollment wasn't a thing back with the Flintstones.

Ls HS does 4 classes a semester and each class is the equivalent of a year. So they essentially take 8 classes a year. It seems like APs start 10th grade and include traditional AP classes like calc, histories and sciences, but they also include AP Art History and AP Drawing and other AP Art classes.

[sadlebred]

Thanks ya'll. I'm confused now. LOL! Glad I don't have a kid in this. Good luck to all HS parents! FWIW, I graduated with 9 hours in AP European History and American History.

[sdlaura]

I took all of them that my school offered and wished I only took the ones I was actually interested in. My DD is entering middle school next year and has decided she’ll do honors math but not honors English, and I’m supportive of that.

One thing I didn’t like about APs was that I ended up getting the college credits in subjects I actually really liked, so then I didn’t take those subjects I really liked in college, and that made college less fun and interesting. It just seemed like a waste of money since I already had the credits and they didn’t have anything yo do with my major. It was like English and history and I was a business major.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 31, 2024 0:54:35 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

I took all of them that my school offered and wished I only took the ones I was actually interested in. My DD is entering middle school next year and has decided she’ll do honors math but not honors English, and I’m supportive of that.

One thing I didn’t like about APs was that I ended up getting the college credits in subjects I actually really liked, so then I didn’t take those subjects I really liked in college, and that made college less fun and interesting. It just seemed like a waste of money since I already had the credits and they didn’t have anything yo do with my major. It was like English and history and I was a business major.

I keep trying to talk L out of honors English and she keeps taking it anyways. 🤦‍♀️

[mich1]

2 of my nieces graduated with sufficient AP classes to start in their second year of college, so it took them 3 years instead of 4. If money is an issue, then this can be important.

[felicity]

Jan 30, 2024 23:03:44 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

How are these kids doing so many AP classes? Are they only one semester long now? Can you take them any time in HS? Back in the day you took them Junior and Senior year only after 2-3 years of honors classes. Dual enrollment wasn't a thing back with the Flintstones.

It was though! I actually did it 20+ years ago. I didn't know anyone else at my school who did it, and it was definitely not advertised. 

FWIW, back in the dark ages, my experience was that college classes at my local community college were significantly easier than the (one lol) AP class I had taken at my high school. All of the classes transferred, too!

[georgeglass]

As someone else mentioned, ask to see the school profile your school will send to college admission reps (ours is available online for reps to pull, so you may not even need to ask anyone). If your school has college counselors, see if you and your kid can make an appointment to talk about scheduling and also help get a broader idea of schools to investigate. Ivy is so much of a crapshoot.

The school where I work lets APs start sophomore year with APUSH and then kids can add more, but the profile will list the data. I just looked at ours and it lists the mean number of AP courses that the senior class took as well as categorizing the number of APs in a schedule (0-3, 4-6, 7-12) and what % of kids took which category. For our competitive independent school, 39% of students took 7-12 APs. We only offer two AP classes that are semester long (Micro/Macro Econ).

Also, where we are, AP still rules over DE.

[leahcar]

Jan 30, 2024 22:48:22 GMT -5 fn2187 said:

One consideration in case it matters for those doing dual enrollment. If your kids obtain enough credits to receive an associate degree upon high school graduation, they may be disqualified from particular scholarships as they are considered a transfer student and not an incoming freshman. School dependent as well.

This is not true. As long as the classes are taken before high school graduation, you’re considered a first year student and not a transfer. You cannot take anything that summer between high school and college though.

If you plan to stay in state and sort of suspect what your major will be, dual credit can be great.

Both my older DDs will graduate high school with their associates degrees due to dual credit. My Senior is going into nursing - super specific prerequisites- so she will likely still spend 3 years in college. My sophomore is currently thinking history - if she sticks with that, she may actually finish college in more like 2-3 years. It’s definitely a huge financial benefit. That would likely not be true if they went OOS or private though. Not nearly as much would transfer.

OP, if your district uses weighted GPAs OR if your state uses class rank for admission to colleges, a lot of AP or DC will be needed to rank. It’s impossible to hit top 10% at our school without mostly honors/AP/DC. Class rank matters in TX admissions, unfortunately. It’s so much pressure on these kids.

[fivechickens]

Are AP classes necessary for all college applicants or just Ivy League?

If my kid wants to go to a college like Michigan State are AP classes necessary? My kids are in 7th grade so we are not there yet so I am just curious.

[abs]

DD will be able to take AP classes starting freshman year and I think that is insane. I told her teachers and counselors will be pushing her to take the most advanced courses in everything and that she should only do what interests her. I think she is starting to see that. She’s only in 7th but is taking the most accelerated path she can. Next year she will take Biology and Geometry and will go to high school with 6 credits. We are both like what are we doing here. She loves Science and Math so that path has been good for her. She’s torturing herself with pre-AP Humanities though. Like they are reading Frankenstein and she hates it. I really hope next year she takes a step back on that.

Anyways my been there, done that friends say dual enrollment generally only transfers as elective courses. AP courses don’t always transfer either BUT they do help prepare them for college courses better than regular courses. So we will see. I plan on encouraging math/science AP only since those are the subjects she actually likes. That would get her 6 AP classes I think? I want her to have time to be a kid and have fun. She’s 99% sure she will do marching band so that’s another reason to not load up on AP classes.

The foreign language discussion is interesting. DD is taking Spanish now. She hates it (mostly because of the teacher…zero class control) and was planning on being done after the required two years.

[jinkies]

Jan 31, 2024 7:20:47 GMT -5 fivechickens said:

Are AP classes necessary for all college applicants or just Ivy League?

If my kid wants to go to a college like Michigan State are AP classes necessary? My kids are in 7th grade so we are not there yet so I am just curious.

Plenty of kids go to college without APs.

I don't know about Michigan specifically, but my son's friend was accepted to Penn State main campus without APs. He was not able to fit them in his schedule bc he did a half day tech school program (which my son is also doing). Not sure if that made a difference, since he likely took the most rigorous courses available to him (honors).

Like him, my son won't be able to fit in APs with his tech school schedule but is taking honors in everything but English. I'm not particularly worried about him getting into a school.

[Jalapeñomel]

If she wants to go Ivy, take AP Chem.

[CrazyLucky]

My DS is in 8th and he has to start choosing classes for next year. They have a STEM academy at the high school, and I was excited for him to get into it. But then they showed us the class schedule for all four years. Never less than 5 AP classes per year. "Suggested" electives include things like AP Physics II. I asked if taking all AP classes was mandatory and they said no, he can take one or two honors courses instead. They have to take AP Physics I in ninth grade!
I know things have changed in the 30 years since I finished high school, but that seems like WAY to much for most kids. DS is just going into a regular college prep track and DH and I will encourage him to take 2-3 honors classes per year. He doesn't aspire to get into an Ivy though.

[penguingrrl]

My oldest has ivy aspirations as well. They’re a junior now and currently enrolled in 4 AP classes plus one honors course (AP physics, language, US History, and music theory, and honors precalc). Next year they plan to take 3 or 4 more. We don’t assume they’ll actually get college credit for all of these, or even most, but our HS really pushes AP and IB courses and makes it hard for the top ranked kids to take anything else (which is problematic). My kid wanted to take a dual enrollment English course (Rutgers expository writing) but our school seems to have discontinued that option as of this year.

This fall we met with an admissions officer at the ivy where H did graduate school, which is my kid’s top choice for college. The officer said they look to see that the student took the hardest classes offered by their HS. In addition, they look for evidence of a passion for something, even if it isn’t their intended major (my kid has had a passion for music since middle school but plans to major in neuroscience, and has a college essay that discusses how they interrelate). The officer said a few Bs won’t disqualify someone, especially if they’ve taken the most rigorous classes available.

But we also know that even with the “perfect” stats getting in is unlikely. We’re currently researching what other schools they’ll want to apply to. There are so many amazing schools out there, so I know that we’ll find the right school whether or not it’s an ivy.

[mcppalmbeach]

This is always an interesting discussion to see how it differs in different places. I am in Florida and our “big three” public universities have gotten increasingly difficult to get into
Despite the dumpster fire that is Florida. My friend is spending quite a bit of money on a college guidance service for her kid because she wants her out of Florida. The perspective of that counselor is that AP classes hold a much higher value than dual enrollment at a local college…used to be “community college” but now offers 4 year degrees. Also of priority was 4 years of language, 5 credits of math and 5 credits of science…considering high school is 4 years I find that fascinating lol. I mean obviously I understand how it works, but that you MUST be taking high school classes in middle school in order to be competitive for college is wild to me. Standard track here is Algebra as an 8th grader for high school credit and accelerated track is algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th as high school credit. There is no science high school in middle school so I guess you have to double up.