I don't know where her want for an Ivy came from, it wasn't from us. Neither of us went to one and neither did any of our family. I should dig into that more. I have done my best to give her a realistic view of admissions percentages and likelihoods but she still wants to.
Maybe this is a different thread, but I'm not even sure how to find those cool smaller colleges/universities. I don't want her going to our alma mater. Not knowing exactly what she wants to study also makes this harder. But I think it's biologicaly wired, I changed my major 5 times in undergrad 🤣. It just makes the course selection and college search a bit more ambiguous.
Does your district use Naviance or something similar? You can put in criteria like size of school, geographic area, activities/sports, acceptance rate, Greek life (I think?), etc. and it will create a filtered list. Not the end all be all of college searches, but can be a starting point to finding colleges and universities you may not have heard of.
I don't know where her want for an Ivy came from, it wasn't from us. Neither of us went to one and neither did any of our family. I should dig into that more. I have done my best to give her a realistic view of admissions percentages and likelihoods but she still wants to.
Maybe this is a different thread, but I'm not even sure how to find those cool smaller colleges/universities. I don't want her going to our alma mater. Not knowing exactly what she wants to study also makes this harder. But I think it's biologicaly wired, I changed my major 5 times in undergrad 🤣. It just makes the course selection and college search a bit more ambiguous.
Check out Colleges that Change Lives. I love a tiny-ass lib arts school!
I don't know where her want for an Ivy came from, it wasn't from us. Neither of us went to one and neither did any of our family. I should dig into that more. I have done my best to give her a realistic view of admissions percentages and likelihoods but she still wants to.
Maybe this is a different thread, but I'm not even sure how to find those cool smaller colleges/universities. I don't want her going to our alma mater. Not knowing exactly what she wants to study also makes this harder. But I think it's biologicaly wired, I changed my major 5 times in undergrad 🤣. It just makes the course selection and college search a bit more ambiguous.
Check out Colleges that Change Lives. I love a tiny-ass lib arts school!
I had never heard of this but DD is going start at one of the listed schools next year!
I haven't read all the replies but my son is a sophomore and was only allowed to take 1 AP class as a freshman (AP World History), and only 3 honors classes (bio, geometry, and language). Interestingly his friends at our public school (he is in a private school) could only take 1 their freshman year as well but it was AP government. He could take 2 this year but is only doing 1, AP European History, and is doing honors chem (last year as a freshman did honors bio), and honors math. Next year as a junior he will do AP US history and one other AP class, either AP Chem, which he doesn't want to take, or something else. He is not going to go to an Ivy League school, he is not that hard of a worker, but he really loves the AP history classes (he got a 5 on his AP world which shocked me to be honest). His school does not allow dual enrollment. Also his school is on terms, 3 a year, and the AP classes last all year.
For those specifically interested in Ivy applications, I follow @limmytalks on instagram. He reads off the details of college apps, and then tells you what schools they applied to and whether they were accepted. It's very Ivy/high achieving focused. And my takeaway is that it is 100% a crapshoot as to whether your kid is accepted to any given school, no matter how amazing their credentials.
At this point my kid has his heart absolutely set on a school with a 95% acceptance rate. It has his major, and for us, he is more likely to get merit scholarship there, where his (mostly likely 3.7-3.8) GPA will stand out as well above average, than if he pushes toward a "reach" school. At the end of the day, he will be eligible for the exact same jobs as the kids who went to more selective schools.
I'm in a parent group related to his intended major (aviation/pro flight) and there is a LOT of discussion about sending kids to the "sweatshirt schools" (Purdue, Auburn, Embry Riddle) vs a guaranteed admittance school vs community college vs airline training programs. In the end, they all end up in the same jobs, so it's really just how much you want to/have available to spend, and what environment your kid is looking for.
It is eye opening though because people are very open about sharing their kids' stats and which schools they got into, along with how much merit money they were offered. It has been super helpful to me for planning purposes, and to just get a better handle on the landscape.
It has actually made me way less worried than I was previously. There is absolutely a school for every kid.
My nephew is a senior and wants to go to school for the same thing. What school does he want to go to? You can PM me if you want, just curious if it is some of the same my nephew is applying to (which are random schools based on where he lives)
I don't think her school does dual enrollment, it hasn't come up in any of the course selection materials we have.
This wasn't offered in my school til senior year. We had dual credit and dual enrollment. Dual credit was taken at HS, dual enrollment you actual attend the college class. I did both and adored it, but I loved school.
frlcb right now his top choice is Utah State because his top priority is an outdoor culture with a mountain bike team and easy access to snowboarding (priorities LOL). From the parent perspective, it's relatively easy to establish residency and be eligible for in state tuition after a year which will be important.
He's only a sophomore though so things could change. A lot of flight schools are in the south due to good flying weather, but he really wants mountains. There are some other possibilities too, but as of right now he's hoping he will like Utah when we visit.
Sorry, I feel like I'm stalk-quoting you, but 100% yes.
I *just* had a conference with N's math teacher, where she's got her first non-A grade of her life. Teacher is totally fine with where she's at, and said N's grade is more the norm in her class. I mentioned how N compares herself to her peers and teacher basically said exactly what you just mentioned. Kids talk a big game. they self aggrandize to their peers, and it ramps up the pressure kids feel on themselves to keep up. N has said that "like ALL my friends have straight A's, and now I don't." I know for a fact that's not true, from talking with other parents, but this is how kids perceive it. Teacher confirmed that no, of course not every student graduates with a 4.0 (their school doesn't weight AP classes). And they're really firm about how many AP classes they'll let kids take.
But holy crap, kids are SO GOOD at talking themselves up to other kids.
I swear I'm not picking on you and this might have more to the story but I think this reaction is part of the problem. A non-A in a math class that is tough is fine. It's more than fine. If we run to teachers in a panic (not saying that's what happened here...just my experience as a teacher) every time kids don't get an A, we send a message to them that something is wrong and they need to fix it. Bs and Cs in a class where you are working hard are awesome. This is how you learn.
:: off soapbox and again, not picking on you -- more of a general statement! ::
oh no, I totally get it. without context, I can see how my post might have implied that I'm upset/concerned/pushing the teacher about the grade. It was more of a check-in, to make sure the class was still the correct place for her to be. At their school, sometimes teachers recommend kids switch into the less accelerated section of the class if they're struggling, because again, they want to set the kids up for success and *learn the material*, not have them struggle just to have an "advanced" class on their transcript. N had a really tough semester from a number of other factors, and there were LOTS of tears and stress surrounding this class in particular. My stance is if you're doing what your best - completing homework, doing the study guides, seeking out help for things you don't understand - that's your best. If your best doesn't result in an A, that's ok.
And truthfully, I'm kind of glad she's experiencing this now, instead of in college. She's going to see that life goes on, and you can still do just fine without all A's, instead of having an existential crisis later on when she inevitably takes a class that she just.doesn't.get. but has to have for her major, or whatever. But I'll fully admit that H and I are not on the same page here. We've had some dicey conversations around this topic. I'll also admit to having gotten pretty bitchy to him about it, but whatever, I'm not sorry. N is nearly a carbon copy of me in terms of her approach to school/anxiety, and we are 100% not doing the "better get all A's game" under my watch.
frlcb right now his top choice is Utah State because his top priority is an outdoor culture with a mountain bike team and easy access to snowboarding (priorities LOL). From the parent perspective, it's relatively easy to establish residency and be eligible for in state tuition after a year which will be important.
He's only a sophomore though so things could change. A lot of flight schools are in the south due to good flying weather, but he really wants mountains. There are some other possibilities too, but as of right now he's hoping he will like Utah when we visit.
It does seem like a lot are in the south! And then random places, like North Dakota!
I don't think her school does dual enrollment, it hasn't come up in any of the course selection materials we have.
This wasn't offered in my school til senior year. We had dual credit and dual enrollment. Dual credit was taken at HS, dual enrollment you actual attend the college class. I did both and adored it, but I loved school.
Off topic—Honestly I understand dual enrollment and why it exists but hate how it’s pushed now. I want my high schooler taking high school classes, not college classes. What is the hurry to push these kids through college—especially kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives? Plus in our district your college courses are with the other dual enrollment kids, so it’s like high school 2.0, not a true college course where you are with people you don’t know. I get what a huge cost saver it is and how helpful that aspect is.
My DS will only be taking one AP course in high school. He's in 10th now and next year will be starting a program in his school where you can "major" in a field of study. DS has had his eye on what he wants to do for a couple of years now and it's one of the programs available. At the end of junior year he will have 15 college credits, some in his chosen field.
I peripherally follow a college admissions group. I saw that there is now going to be an AP Pre-Calc course starting in the fall? I am not in the education world but that sounded crazy to me. Pre-Calc? So if you get a 5 on this AP Pre-Calc exam and go to a school where they give credit for APs, then you go straight to.....Calculus? Everyone in my major started in Calculus 101 in the fall of freshman year and they had all take regular NY Regents or maybe honors level pre-calc at the local high schools. Some of you mentioned the money grubbing element to APs and this sounds like the pinnacle.
I don't know if I missed the answer to the original question posted by gretchenindisguise .
I took 10 AP courses by the time I graduated. I got college credit for 5 of them which really helped my educational trajectory but I don't want my kids to go to my alma mater or any school remotely of its caliber. I'm not totally sure what the kids these days are doing at our HS. We live in NJ and I feel like competition if you want to go to an Ivy is in overdrive here with a huge population in such a tiny state.
This wasn't offered in my school til senior year. We had dual credit and dual enrollment. Dual credit was taken at HS, dual enrollment you actual attend the college class. I did both and adored it, but I loved school.
Off topic—Honestly I understand dual enrollment and why it exists but hate how it’s pushed now. I want my high schooler taking high school classes, not college classes. What is the hurry to push these kids through college—especially kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives? Plus in our district your college courses are with the other dual enrollment kids, so it’s like high school 2.0, not a true college course where you are with people you don’t know. I get what a huge cost saver it is and how helpful that aspect is.
I agree. I want my kids to enjoy college and not be done with it in 2 or 3 years. I also understand the privilege in saying that and that for some families DE is the only way that college is affordable.
The dual credit discussion is interesting. That became an option my senior for ELA only. It was a hard class but I liked it because it was a normal class size. I really struggled in college with the huge auditorium classes my freshman year. I didn’t do well until classes were smaller again. I feel like skipping those big intro classes could be helpful but maybe not. Pros and cons to all of it I guess.
In case anyone here is in CT, FYI that CT now has an automatic acceptance program. If you are in the top 30% of your class, you are automatically accepted to 8 CT colleges, including all 4 state schools (not UCONN), and Uni of New Haven.
I was so happy for this program as my son is a senior and in a tech HS that doesn't offer any AP classes, and for some reason no Senior Honor classes either. He did take all honors classes in the previous years though. He also works through the HS, and there aren't a lot of extras so I was worried about his college application.
I know this program probably was a sigh of relief for a lot of kids. Plus no application fees at all since you are already accepted, so that was nice.
This is a fairly newish program so wanted to get the word out for the CT people.
I peripherally follow a college admissions group. I saw that there is now going to be an AP Pre-Calc course starting in the fall? I am not in the education world but that sounded crazy to me. Pre-Calc? So if you get a 5 on this AP Pre-Calc exam and go to a school where they give credit for APs, then you go straight to.. Calculus? Everyone in my major started in Calculus 101 in the fall of freshman year and they had all take regular NY Regents or maybe honors level pre-calc at the local high schools. Some of you mentioned the money grubbing element to APs and this sounds like the pinnacle.
I don't know if I missed the answer to the original question posted by gretchenindisguise .
I took 10 AP courses by the time I graduated. I got college credit for 5 of them which really helped my educational trajectory but I don't want my kids to go to my alma mater or any school remotely of its caliber. I'm not totally sure what the kids these days are doing at our HS. We live in NJ and I feel like competition if you want to go to an Ivy is in overdrive here with a huge population in such a tiny state.
In our district, AP Precalc is the pathway to skip AP Calc AB. Until this year, if you wanted to take AP Calc BC by senior year, you were required to take AB first. And the highest option in 9th grade was Geometry. So they would offer a 6-week summer precalc class between Sophomore and Junior year for kids who wanted to take all the way to BC. Now, you can avoid the insane 6-week trig precalc summer class (DS took it, is a very mathy kid and found it to be a challenge to essentially learn a week of math every day). If you do well enough in AP Precalc, you skip AB.
Our district doesn’t offer “honors math”. Geometry is geometry. Precalc is precalc. You differentiate by which year you take it in. So this is the first time they have offered a differentiated option below AP Calc to change the pathway. I’ll add that we also don’t have regular calculus like some schools. Only AP Calc.
I peripherally follow a college admissions group. I saw that there is now going to be an AP Pre-Calc course starting in the fall? I am not in the education world but that sounded crazy to me. Pre-Calc? So if you get a 5 on this AP Pre-Calc exam and go to a school where they give credit for APs, then you go straight to.. Calculus? Everyone in my major started in Calculus 101 in the fall of freshman year and they had all take regular NY Regents or maybe honors level pre-calc at the local high schools. Some of you mentioned the money grubbing element to APs and this sounds like the pinnacle.
I don't know if I missed the answer to the original question posted by gretchenindisguise .
I took 10 AP courses by the time I graduated. I got college credit for 5 of them which really helped my educational trajectory but I don't want my kids to go to my alma mater or any school remotely of its caliber. I'm not totally sure what the kids these days are doing at our HS. We live in NJ and I feel like competition if you want to go to an Ivy is in overdrive here with a huge population in such a tiny state.
Many schools that take the AP for credit, take it as an elective. And I think it's fairly common for many students to start with calculus in college. I'm not sure what's crazy about offering AP pre-calc?
This wasn't offered in my school til senior year. We had dual credit and dual enrollment. Dual credit was taken at HS, dual enrollment you actual attend the college class. I did both and adored it, but I loved school.
Off topic—Honestly I understand dual enrollment and why it exists but hate how it’s pushed now. I want my high schooler taking high school classes, not college classes. What is the hurry to push these kids through college—especially kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives? Plus in our district your college courses are with the other dual enrollment kids, so it’s like high school 2.0, not a true college course where you are with people you don’t know. I get what a huge cost saver it is and how helpful that aspect is.
I don't have a good response because that's not what I experienced so that's unfortunate for your HS.
It wasn't pushed onto me and I actually left HS to go to our local community College class with adults.
Eta I was okay with getting out of HS a tad earlier cause I was bullied
Off topic—Honestly I understand dual enrollment and why it exists but hate how it’s pushed now. I want my high schooler taking high school classes, not college classes. What is the hurry to push these kids through college—especially kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives? Plus in our district your college courses are with the other dual enrollment kids, so it’s like high school 2.0, not a true college course where you are with people you don’t know. I get what a huge cost saver it is and how helpful that aspect is.
I agree. I want my kids to enjoy college and not be done with it in 2 or 3 years. I also understand the privilege in saying that and that for some families DE is the only way that college is affordable.
I’m glad someone finally mentioned how privileged it is to be ::shrug:: who cares. I care lol. We are looking at 3 kids going to college where even state school is $25k a year. We are saving but it’s still a large bill potentially. I want a healthy balance for my kids. I want them to have a great high school experience and take advantage of things that may reduce their college bill. If my kids can knock off a few credits of gym and other non-essential classes I will encourage them to do so. If they can take a few AP courses of things they like I will encourage them to do so. I will hope doing a little of all of it will result in reducing the total bill.
Also, the middle school my daughter will likely attend offers a few AP courses. Kids can take the AP Environmental Science exam in 8th grade and take AP language exams if they take a language all three years. It is absolutely wild.
In 8th grade? How is that actually possible? You are supposed to learn the 5 years of a language (from 1 to AP) in 3 years? What an asinine system we have build.
Yeah, I also wonder what happens when you learn enough French to pass the AP test in 8th grade, and then you go to a high school that doesn't offer French? The languages are French, Spanish, and Mandarin, and there are plenty of native speakers of all three in the district. I have a feeling that if anyone passes, it will be those kids who already speak the language at home.
This wasn't offered in my school til senior year. We had dual credit and dual enrollment. Dual credit was taken at HS, dual enrollment you actual attend the college class. I did both and adored it, but I loved school.
Off topic—Honestly I understand dual enrollment and why it exists but hate how it’s pushed now. I want my high schooler taking high school classes, not college classes. What is the hurry to push these kids through college—especially kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives? Plus in our district your college courses are with the other dual enrollment kids, so it’s like high school 2.0, not a true college course where you are with people you don’t know. I get what a huge cost saver it is and how helpful that aspect is.
Your dual enrollment must be way different than ours. We have a program called Running Start where juniors and seniors can take classes at one of our two-year colleges for free. It's great for students who want to get a start on their college credits but also students who don't enjoy the traditional high school experience.
We also have a handful of dual enrollment classes. They are classes taught at the high school by the regular high school teachers, you just also enroll for credit at the associated college. DD did dual enrollment for Spanish 3 (with a local 2-year college) and English Lit Comp (with UW). She wanted to take those classes anyway so why not get college credit.
At our school these offerings are most definitely not pushed on the kids.
I agree. I want my kids to enjoy college and not be done with it in 2 or 3 years. I also understand the privilege in saying that and that for some families DE is the only way that college is affordable.
I’m glad someone finally mentioned how privileged it is to be ::shrug:: who cares. I care lol. We are looking at 3 kids going to college where even state school is $25k a year. We are saving but it’s still a large bill potentially. I want a healthy balance for my kids. I want them to have a great high school experience and take advantage of things that may reduce their college bill. If my kids can knock off a few credits of gym and other non-essential classes I will encourage them to do so. If they can take a few AP courses of things they like I will encourage them to do so. I will hope doing a little of all of it will result in reducing the total bill.
It is incredibly privileged, and I recognize that. My state offers a lot of aid because of the lottery and our kids are heading towards being able to use that, which would help with the cost a lot, which is partly why I can say that I don't like DE for my kids. But it is a great, valid option for lots of families. College is ridiculously expensive. I wish we as a nation could tackle that.
In 8th grade? How is that actually possible? You are supposed to learn the 5 years of a language (from 1 to AP) in 3 years? What an asinine system we have build.
Yeah, I also wonder what happens when you learn enough French to pass the AP test in 8th grade, and then you go to a high school that doesn't offer French? The languages are French, Spanish, and Mandarin, and there are plenty of native speakers of all three in the district. I have a feeling that if anyone passes, it will be those kids who already speak the language at home.
That's why the CB allows those (world language) tests to be taken pre-9th grade (so they say), it's designed to let kids "test out". But I don't know how effective that would be with graduation requirements- you have to have 2 sequential years of the same world language to graduate/enter the university system here, and AFAIK, there's no "testing out".
I’ve never even heard of dual enrollment. I googled and It looks like it’s required to be option at all high schools in MA but I’ve never seen it mentioned in any meeting, referenced in the course catalogue etc. I’m sure there are kids who do it at our school but sounds like it’s our favorite term - “regional”. AP classes and summer college programs (some of which offer course credit if you go to that college but are mostly used to help boost admission possibility) are still the hot things here.
And it’s waaaaay to much pressure on kids. It’s so unbelievably different than when I was applying to college in the dark ages of the ‘90s
I’ve never even heard of dual enrollment. I googled and It looks like it’s required to be option at all high schools in MA but I’ve never seen it mentioned in any meeting, referenced in the course catalogue etc. I’m sure there are kids who do it at our school but sounds like it’s our favorite term - “regional”. AP classes and summer college programs (some of which offer course credit if you go to that college but are mostly used to help boost admission possibility) are still the hot things here.
And it’s waaaaay to much pressure on kids. It’s so unbelievably different than when I was applying to college in the dark ages of the ‘90s
We had dual enrollment when I was in HS. It wasn’t super popular and you had to seek it out but people did it. Mostly people who wanted to work right after graduation and only needed a AA to do whatever it was and a few kids who wanted to take classes our school didn’t offer. My brother did it briefly to take Japanese.
The trick for anyone who was college bound was to refuse to actually get the AA degree so you got college credit but you didn’t count as a transfer student which helped with financial aid.
We also had work study where you worked half the day. Some of the girls went to school in the morning and then went to work at the National Security Agency in the afternoons. Wild times.
Post by midwestmama on Feb 1, 2024 15:38:34 GMT -5
This is a really interesting thread. My oldest (DS) is in 8th grade this year, and we have a "Welcome to HS" presentation for parents next week. If they don't cover this topic, I will definitely be asking.
Back when I was in HS (late 90s), AP classes were more popular than dual enrollment (at least where I was), because a high score on the AP exam guaranteed college credit, whereas dual enrollment was not (some colleges would accept the credits and others would not). I took 3 AP classes (Chemistry, English, and US History) but only got an exam score high enough on AP US History to get college credit.
I peripherally follow a college admissions group. I saw that there is now going to be an AP Pre-Calc course starting in the fall? I am not in the education world but that sounded crazy to me. Pre-Calc? So if you get a 5 on this AP Pre-Calc exam and go to a school where they give credit for APs, then you go straight to.. Calculus? Everyone in my major started in Calculus 101 in the fall of freshman year and they had all take regular NY Regents or maybe honors level pre-calc at the local high schools. Some of you mentioned the money grubbing element to APs and this sounds like the pinnacle.
I don't know if I missed the answer to the original question posted by gretchenindisguise .
I took 10 AP courses by the time I graduated. I got college credit for 5 of them which really helped my educational trajectory but I don't want my kids to go to my alma mater or any school remotely of its caliber. I'm not totally sure what the kids these days are doing at our HS. We live in NJ and I feel like competition if you want to go to an Ivy is in overdrive here with a huge population in such a tiny state.
Many schools that take the AP for credit, take it as an elective. And I think it's fairly common for many students to start with calculus in college. I'm not sure what's crazy about offering AP pre-calc?
At my college, a 5 on AP Bio let me skip Bio 101/102 and go straight to Bio 201 which was helpful as a bio major. A 4 on AP Physics let me skip Physics 101 and I only had to take Physics 102. So that's what I was thinking for AP Pre-calc, like what course would that allow you to skip since most science major students went straight to calc in college?
It makes more sense to give credit for it as an elective. I guess it will all depend on the college and their policy.
Many schools that take the AP for credit, take it as an elective. And I think it's fairly common for many students to start with calculus in college. I'm not sure what's crazy about offering AP pre-calc?
At my college, a 5 on AP Bio let me skip Bio 101/102 and go straight to Bio 201 which was helpful as a bio major. A 4 on AP Physics let me skip Physics 101 and I only had to take Physics 102. So that's what I was thinking for AP Pre-calc, like what course would that allow you to skip since most science major students went straight to calc in college?
It makes more sense to give credit for it as an elective. I guess it will all depend on the college and their policy.
Ah I see what you’re saying.
Sadly, I think a lot of schools aren’t taking straight credit for these classes anymore, especially if they are in their major. So if you take AP Chem and get the credit, you may still have to take chem 101 in college.
The reason this question is so hard to answer is that education isn't standardized in this country. There are lots (and lots) of high schools that don't offer higher level math or science, let alone AP courses. DE is often dependent on your physical location, your ability to get your tush to the campus (there are more virtual options now, thankfully), and the rules that particular school sets for DE students. Rules about transfers and test credits vary, testing requirements vary, course requirements vary- it's just incredibly messy.
As to the original question- "How many AP courses do kids really need?" A big fat "it depends".
AP courses are taken for lots of reasons- some of DS's were requirements for his pre-IB program. Some of them are interest classes (CSA was pretty important in shaping the rest of his HS years, and he absolutely loves physics and math). And the reason that no one seems to talk about? For the GPA boost. We can dance around it all we want, but if you want merit $ (don't go to an Ivy, haha) you likely need to beat the mid50% on the school's common data set. When that mid50% ends in a 4.5 or 4.6? You need to take a lot of heavily weighted classes.
Post by jillybean222 on Feb 1, 2024 16:43:25 GMT -5
My freshman is enrolled in all honors classes this year and doing well but has a wild amount of HW, which can be challenging with her athletic schedule. Never thought about APs for a 14 year old but maybe that's just me!