Bear with me here. I’m fantasizing about a cross country move to a smaller town, slower pace of living, because the competitive, stressful scene where I live now is burning out my family. But is it like this everywhere?
We live in a HCOL high achieving west coast tech hub. Nothing is easy. My kids are 11 and 13. Their school is insanely competitive with pushy parents demanding an overhaul of the math curriculum because their kid won’t be in Algebra 2 by 8th grade. You get the idea. Sports are a nightmare; my daughter is “select” level (not even AAU, the highest level) but everybody takes extra private coaching lessons and camps year-round to get an edge. Everything is a competition for the best. You can’t schedule a meet up with friends because they all have coding class or some sports training 7 days a week. Sign ups for any summer camps start in November. Everything desirable sells out in an instant. It’s all about getting an edge to get into the best team, best private Hs, best college, best everything.
My kids are stressed, anxious. Both have diagnoses of depression, both have been or are in therapy, both are on antidepressants. They both have wonderful groups of friends but all the friends lament the same thing. Too much work, too many expectations, no time to chill.
So, I’m considering a move to a smaller town which I think would lessen our pace of life a bit. I work remotely and it would be a move closer to HQ anyway.
But would it really be different? Is it just like this everywhere now? Is this the case of grass is always greener? As much as I’ve tried to slow the pace within our family, if you slow down it means your kid gets left behind, which leads to even more stress and anxiety from being the worst at everything.
No, my location is not the same as what you described.
It is suburbs of a large city so there are some similarities, but it is not as competitive as what you are describing.
For sports, DD is doing level A which is select but they only have A and B because there are less teams. DS is doing level C which is one step up from rec with player development in mind. He started a year after DD. DD did level B last year.
Parents don’t seem to care about math curriculum, but both kids are in advanced math based on test scores and it is hard. I forgot it all, so then I see the problems and swear, and hope DS knows it because I have to reteach myself if he doesn’t.
Camp sign ups are Feb/ March and no one cares what camps your kid goes to unless it’s friends coordinating. Camps fill up very quickly but that started after the pandemic with pent up demand. I don’t think it was as much an issue before the pandemic. Specialty camps are $$$.
Middle school is all over the place with friendships and that is likely universal, but they can see friends. We do a lot of sports and not as much friend time but if we want to put more effort into socializing more often it’s possible, but we need to hit our wider network if we wants social plans every weekend or twice a month.
In another nationwide group I'm in, I recently saw a mom arguing that kids should be able to start Algebra I in *sixth grade* so they can track into more advanced math classes in college. It was eye-opening
I'm in a HCOL city in the northeast, and while many signups do indeed sell out in minutes - swim class, summer camp, vacation camp, campsite reservations, events - so far our public school situation doesn't seem as intense as you describe. I hear that some school districts near us are like this, however, and families have definitely moved out of those districts to protect their kids' mental health.
No, my life is nothing like that even though I also live in a west coast tech hub (Portland.)
I'm going to be honest, we just do not buy into the hussle. I want my kids to have a happy, relaxed childhood. We focus on what brings us joy together as a family and let go of everything else.
I am sorry your kids are depressed. I think it is very common, unfortunately. And I hear you (in my east coast HCOL area), and especially this week. We are weighing AAU options for the 12 year old and trying to figure out if she “needs” a coach, now, in seventh grade, if her goal is to someday play in HS. We also got course selection forms this week for next fall with 8th grade, and the recommended math is algebra AND geometry. Back in the olden days (shakes cane) us smart kids were in algebra in 8th and geometry in 9th. I feel overwhelmed by the sports and academics decisions especially with them coming at the same time. (My kid, meanwhile, does not.)
I think it’s the onslaught of EVERYTHING 24/7. I am mostly pretty good with doing what’s important and cutting through the shit, but man if I don’t have times where I just need to lay down from the pace of life (which I admit is largely, although not entirely, self-imposed) and the pace of the world at large.
What has recently helped is that I am starting to get better at saying no. No more swim team for now if you hate it even if you made the team and took a slot from 200+ other kids who wanted it, no more violin lessons where I have to constantly remind you to practice. No volleyball right now because there is no room. No more taking on more volunteer stuff but actively trying to offload it. Saying no is new for me but kind of fun.
I am sorry your kids are depressed. I think it is very common, unfortunately. And I hear you (in my east coast HCOL area), and especially this week. We are weighing AAU options for the 12 year old and trying to figure out if she “needs” a coach, now, in seventh grade, if her goal is to someday play in HS. We also got course selection forms this week for next fall with 8th grade, and the recommended math is algebra AND geometry. Back in the olden days (shakes cane) us smart kids were in algebra in 8th and geometry in 9th. I feel overwhelmed by the sports and academics decisions especially with them coming at the same time. (My kid, meanwhile, does not.)
I think it’s the onslaught of EVERYTHING 24/7. I am mostly pretty good with doing what’s important and cutting through the shit, but man if I don’t have times where I just need to lay down from the pace of life (which I admit is largely, although not entirely, self-imposed) and the pace of the world at large.
What has recently helped is that I am starting to get better at saying no. No more swim team for now if you hate it even if you made the team and took a slot from 200+ other kids who wanted it, no more violin lessons where I have to constantly remind you to practice. No volleyball right now because there is no room. No more taking on more volunteer stuff but actively trying to offload it. Saying no is new for me but kind of fun.
I’ve thought from the start that it is likely my kid will not play a high school sport. I know some parents have gone the no cut teams route such as cross country, track and maybe wrestling.
Congrats on saying no. I don’t know how you made it this far in life because I feel like everything happens on the same day and time so I’m always saying no.
I follow my kids lead because I don’t want to care more about their activity than they do. I don’t want to fight them on things. But I do make them finish the season if they committed.
It is not like that where I live (the hippy part of Philadelphia) and thank god. I could not survive if that was my life. I am not a competitive person and I do not understand the world of parents like that. It's exhausting. A simpler life sounds like exactly what you need.
I'm a pretty lazy parent and I like it that way. Kids play school sports, and travel soccer but it's low key. We don't play the expensive clubs. My kids are good students but no one is pushing them to something too advanced for them. We aren't looking at anything we are doing now specifically as a means to an end. We are friends with people who parent like us, and we have planty of time to just chill with them -- go to bars, watch games, hang in our yards, go for hikes. There are folks who parent differently, and we're friendly, but we don't get sucked into that crazy. You can make that choice, no matter where you are.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
waverly I am a “get to yes” kind of person and a chronic overachiever so when my kids lack grit it grates. I just try to take a step back and remind myself they’re not me. I am kind of pissed about one kid quitting swim mid-season, but she has/had(?) some kind of lung situation we’re still piecing together (allergies? exercise-induced asthma? both?) so I felt like I had a little medical justification for pulling the plug on that.
I am sorry your kids are depressed. I think it is very common, unfortunately. And I hear you (in my east coast HCOL area), and especially this week. We are weighing AAU options for the 12 year old and trying to figure out if she “needs” a coach, now, in seventh grade, if her goal is to someday play in HS. We also got course selection forms this week for next fall with 8th grade, and the recommended math is algebra AND geometry. Back in the olden days (shakes cane) us smart kids were in algebra in 8th and geometry in 9th. I feel overwhelmed by the sports and academics decisions especially with them coming at the same time. (My kid, meanwhile, does not.)
I think it’s the onslaught of EVERYTHING 24/7. I am mostly pretty good with doing what’s important and cutting through the shit, but man if I don’t have times where I just need to lay down from the pace of life (which I admit is largely, although not entirely, self-imposed) and the pace of the world at large.
What has recently helped is that I am starting to get better at saying no. No more swim team for now if you hate it even if you made the team and took a slot from 200+ other kids who wanted it, no more violin lessons where I have to constantly remind you to practice. No volleyball right now because there is no room. No more taking on more volunteer stuff but actively trying to offload it. Saying no is new for me but kind of fun.
I teach middle school (and sometimes math). DO NOT DO THIS. It's a huge mistake. Let them take Algebra in 8th and Geometry in 9th. If they must, take Geometry over the summer. Doing both at once with an 8th grade brain is a recipe for disaster.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I am sorry your kids are depressed. I think it is very common, unfortunately. And I hear you (in my east coast HCOL area), and especially this week. We are weighing AAU options for the 12 year old and trying to figure out if she “needs” a coach, now, in seventh grade, if her goal is to someday play in HS. We also got course selection forms this week for next fall with 8th grade, and the recommended math is algebra AND geometry. Back in the olden days (shakes cane) us smart kids were in algebra in 8th and geometry in 9th. I feel overwhelmed by the sports and academics decisions especially with them coming at the same time. (My kid, meanwhile, does not.)
I think it’s the onslaught of EVERYTHING 24/7. I am mostly pretty good with doing what’s important and cutting through the shit, but man if I don’t have times where I just need to lay down from the pace of life (which I admit is largely, although not entirely, self-imposed) and the pace of the world at large.
What has recently helped is that I am starting to get better at saying no. No more swim team for now if you hate it even if you made the team and took a slot from 200+ other kids who wanted it, no more violin lessons where I have to constantly remind you to practice. No volleyball right now because there is no room. No more taking on more volunteer stuff but actively trying to offload it. Saying no is new for me but kind of fun.
Yes exactly to all of this!! It’s all so much. Same timing her for spring AAU. She wants to try out for the AAU team her select friends are trying out for. This is a tight group of friends, they are socially close. She doesn’t want to miss out. They’ll all be getting better without her. But a) she is much less skilled than they are and won’t make the team and b) if somehow she made it, yet even more demands, driving, drama, less time for homework, etc. You are damned if you do and dammed if you don’t.
I’m trying to find the line between suck it up life is hard everywhere vs no we really live in a toxic area and the kids would be better off elsewhere.
We live in a HCOL city where families can get intense about sports, camps, athletics, but we’re not a part of that and I don’t know why any family would need to be a part of all that anxiety if they didn’t want to, especially with an 11 and 13 year old. My kids play sports and instruments. They go to one summer camp where we have to sign up in November and if you don’t you don’t get a spot, and the rest of the summer they go to other camps. We’re in the middle of the application process for very competitive schools, but my impression is that the schools want involved parents and curious happy kids and while academics and extra curriculars are a part of the admissions decision, they are not a huge part. What would it mean for your kids to step back? Sure, you can move somewhere else, but why not just change your lifestyle. At 11 and 13 unless you want them to get a sports scholarship they can’t be missing anything too crucial.
Post by thebreakfastclub on Feb 6, 2024 20:01:41 GMT -5
Nope, because I don't care about that stuff. My son does archery in the summer and does coding once a week. I've never been on a sports team so I don't really think about sports.
I don't really know too many school parents, because I don't really interact with school. I don't know what goes on there day to day.
waverly I am a “get to yes” kind of person and a chronic overachiever so when my kids lack grit it grates. I just try to take a step back and remind myself they’re not me. I am kind of pissed about one kid quitting swim mid-season, but she has/had(?) some kind of lung situation we’re still piecing together (allergies? exercise-induced asthma? both?) so I felt like I had a little medical justification for pulling the plug on that.
I’m high achieving but not over achieving. You made me laugh though because I feel like every time someone asks me something I say no. It’s a knee jerk reaction probably from when DH traveled for work so it all had to be what 1 person could handle who works and has to feed kids dinner etc. He traveled for a good 7 years when the kids were young.
I'm sure some places are better or worse than others, but I do think it's common and a move would not be a guaranteed fix.
My kids are younger (4 and 8) so they aren't experiencing the pressure themselves yet, but it's hard as a parent for sure. I live in a suburb of a small city (population about 100k). It is not V/HCOL. I'd say my burb is maybe MCOL. You would think it would be relatively chill. Tons of state gov't employees and state university employees, some corporate/industry, but nothing super high pressure.
Despite the seemingly low-key vibe of the region, we spent SEVEN YEARS on the waitlist for our desired infant-through-pre-k center. We got on the list in May 2015 when I was 12 weeks pregnant with kid #1. When we got a spot, it was June 2022, and kid #2 was turning 3. A 7 year wait list for a program that is by definition limited to about 5 years is wild.
I currently have 1 in public elementary, and next year will have 2. There are 2 programs that I know of for after school care for elementary kids with working parents. Sign ups for 2024-25 opened at noon on Monday a few weeks ago for the provider that we use. It was the "sit at your computer and refresh until the link appears" situation. It will be the same in April when summer care opens. It is the same for every break vacation childcare sign up. I hope to god we get a spot for next year; IDK what we will do if we don't. Parents sweat summer camp opportunities, tutoring, extra support, coaching, etc. to give their kids the competitive edge.
Soccer, baseball, lax, and a bunch of other sports are hella competitive and some also have reputations for being nepotistic for positions, etc. There's a lot of worry about oh what if I don't get my kid started early enough. Especially in DD's age range; she started K in 2020 so everyone started activities "late" during the pandemic. It's pretty high pressure. Fortunately she was interested in track/XC which is lower pressure, although we still ended up traveling for XC nationals in the fall.
Our school district has a very good reputation outside the district, but within the district I hear a lot of parents complain that if your kid isn't a standout at something they tend to get lost in the shuffle. I'm sure I will gain insight into that in the coming years.
So, I can't say if it's better here than where you are, but we definitely have some of the same issues.
I live in a city in the southeast. Yes, some people are ridiculous, but it isn’t like you describe. My 11 year old girl is having a Valentines party this weekend and 16 of 18 girls said yes to her invite so they aren’t all crazed with activities. We had the same acceptance rate for her December holiday party. A couple of girls will arrive late due to swim.
But some of this is choices you are making. My husband and I decided long ago that we like our weekends. We aren’t putting our kid in any activities ever that involve weekend travel. We have better things to do with our time. No travel sports, no dance team craziness, etc. We are definitely in the minority on this amongst affluent families. We don’t care. We spend our weekends doing some stuff as a family, we go on dates, we do stuff with our friends and our kid does stuff with her friends. We also travel quite a bit.
All I care about for my kid is to get her through middle school and high school without a mental health crisis. Full stop. This is ALL I care about. She is doing well in sixth grade. But really, the only advanced course at this point is that she is in accelerated math. But is is normal kid accelerated (not like Doogie Howser or going to go to MIT accelerated). She will do all of sixth grade math and part of seventh grade math. If she was struggling and stressed, I would move her to regular sixth math in a heartbeat.
I’m an Ivy Leaguer but I wouldn’t even want that for her. It is ridiculous now. I don’t even care if she gets into our major state flagship. There are plenty of good colleges in our state that have pretty high acceptance rates. She will be fine.
ETA — my oldest has profound intellectual disability (like needs 24/7 care) so I do think much of my perspective is informed by having a child that will never be a “contributing member of society.” I might have been a very different parent (with respect to school) without this experience. But I don’t think my husband and I would ever have given up our weekend for kid activities. That just isn’t who we are.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Feb 6, 2024 21:06:27 GMT -5
We are in SoCal and don’t feel that same amount of pressure.
I don’t know what AAU is. A is 9 and is trying rec soccer for the first time at the Y. Many of his classmates are on the team.
I did just make a post about AP classes and how many kids need, but that’s because of pressure my kid puts on herself. They also both have adhd and anxiety (9yo not diagnosed with it yet but I think its a matter of time, yay genetics).
I think there are schools in the area that are exceedingly competitive. So far the one L is in doesn’t seem to be.
Post by browneyedgirl9 on Feb 6, 2024 21:17:38 GMT -5
I'm in Massachusetts in a small southeast town and I don't feel this pressure for academics or sports. There are many level of sports around here and parents in town don't seem to not push for higher levels unless kids are really driven to do so. Rec and town sports are most popular here and parents and mainly supportive vs competitive. Camps here do fill fast but I think it's a supply and demand issue.
Sorry that you and your children are feeling this level of pressure at such a young age.
Post by UMaineTeach on Feb 6, 2024 21:25:21 GMT -5
I think there’s some room to go all in on something here, if you try.
You can take dance from the chill studio or the selective one with the former Russian ballerina instructor.
You can do AAU and club sports, but your parents have to try to find them. Most people seem to be good with school and rec offerings.
Good luck finding private music lessons or language classes.
There’s no such thing as a room parent in a classroom. No one plans elaborate holiday parties for first graders. Kids aren’t walking around with giant balloon bouquets from their parents for Valentine’s Day.
There doesn’t seem to be much access to many things to cause high levels of competitive stress here. We are also churning out mostly state university and community college students.
The kids are anxious and depressed for other reasons, mostly poverty driven reasons.
I think kids from the high COL and high stress/competition environments would be super bored here. Relaxed, but bored.
No, but I know other families in your position. I have a close friend who used to be a counselor in a very high achieving school and the kids were dealing with a lot of the same issues - depression, anxiety, and stress.
If there is no other choice academically then I guess I would consider moving too.
Post by fancynewbeesly on Feb 6, 2024 21:35:22 GMT -5
It isn’t like that where we live. We live in a HCOL state but not our area (South Jersey). My girls are in 7th and kindergarten. For sports there are a ton of rec leagues. My daughters play softball on it. It is so not competitive. We do have travel teams and things like but they don’t know kids on those teams. My kindergarten does ballet/tap at a non competition dance school.
My girls aren’t pressured in school. Although DD1 is trying to place into the STEM program for 8th grade.
Most of the kids in our town go to the rec camps at the schools. I feel like in some ways it is a 1950s type town. At least in regards to lack of pressure and competition. Very few kids are over scheduled here.
No. My DD is in high school. She’s bright and joined activities that she likes which are not all that competitive. She set her mind to score high grades this semester - and did. Then she told me she is going to set her sights a bit lower next semester “so she doesn’t burn out”. She cracks me up. I have confidence that she will find a college that will accept her and she’ll like it. We have good access to medical care and have sought mental health resources, too. I do think that’s universal.
But it does snow a lot here (at least most winters).
Post by InBetweenDays on Feb 6, 2024 21:43:08 GMT -5
We live in a West Coast tech hub (Seattle) and no our lives are not at all like that. Not to say that there aren't people in the city like that - we just choose to not buy in to that or spend our time with people who do. Our kids also go to our neighborhood public school and I'm SURE (actually know) there is more of that mindset at the more prestigious private schools.
No, my life is nothing like that even though I also live in a west coast tech hub (Portland.)
I'm going to be honest, we just do not buy into the hussle. I want my kids to have a happy, relaxed childhood. We focus on what brings us joy together as a family and let go of everything else.
This. I live in a city where things could/are definitely like that but that is not me, has never been me and not how we’re raising our child. Thankfully since there are lots of things here there is the super competitive but there’s also the other end/non competitive as well. I personally don’t care if my kid doesn’t go to college for example and if they do go to college it’s fine to go to a "low ranked" one. There are tons of measures of success and going to an Ivy League school doesn’t always equal success and happiness.
Even in med school I never "bought in" to the super competitive type A people. So I don’t think moving will solve all your problems because when it comes down to it, you can chose to not "keep up with the Jones’s."
Post by awkwardpenguin on Feb 6, 2024 22:49:50 GMT -5
I think your pace of life is largely a values based choice you make, and I think it would be hard to change without some substantial buy in from everyone in the family and a very conscious set of changes (that may or may not include moving).
We live in a major city, and there is certainly the option to go as hard as possible, but there is also the option to not do that. We've maybe taken it a little further in the non-competitive direction than most. Our kids go to public school (and not one of the "sought after" public schools) and they do rec sports. They are only 6 and 8 so academic pressure has not factored into things very much. We do private reading tutoring for my son because he was behind, and 15 minutes a day of "extra" for my daughter because there are a few things that school seems a little weak on teaching.
Things do get harder at high school around here, because the public high school admissions are very competitive. How that all shakes out will be driven by our kids with input from us. If they want to strive for competitive high schools we will support them, and if they have special interests we will nurture them. But it will be in service of fulfillment, not being the best at everything or getting into the best college or whatever.
Wherever you go, there you are. Unless you're willing to stop living like this it won't be different. You'll look for an affluent suburb with the same demands and competitions.
No, it's not like that where we are. I love our little city. It's like a Hallmark movie sometimes. There are certainly opportunities for people who desire to be high achieving in their THING...but there's not the pressure to be high achieving in EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME. It's a great mix of possibilities and laid back with everything in between being culturally accepted. It's very "you do you" in that regard.
But...it's Iowa. Our politics are shit, the future of our public schools is at VERY high risk with the current legislature (but we were very recently really highly ranked as a state, so it's possible we can turn that around), and I would never move here with a girl. Oh, and winter is awful (although today it was gorgeous and 50...thanks, global warming).
So, I think that the grass is definitely greener here regarding quality of life as far as COL and societal pressures for achievement and keeping up with the Joneses, but there's a HUGE trade-off. I wouldn't move here again and wouldn't recommend it to others right now, either.
Nope, but I also don’t care. Travel sports for little kids is ridiculous and setting them up for failure and bodily harm.
I want a happy, well adjusted kid. Who then goes to a college where she can have a happy, social experience.
Travel ball and competitive dance teams aren’t where a career is going to start anyway.
A coworker pressure her kids in sports. They did ok, one got a scholarship to college. The one that didn’t GAF is doing well. The other two are lost post undergrad and are going from job to job. They needed life skills.
No. I live in a HCOL government city, also west coast but in Canada. There are camps and activities that are difficult to get into, but it's more a case of not enough supply and overwhelming demand for them. I have one DD and she does a lot of activities, but only because she really enjoys them. Aside from soccer, none of these activities are particularly competitive, and even soccer is pretty chill at this age. Nobody is competing to get their kid into private school because nearly everyone sends their kids to public school.
Teens seem to face a certain amount of pressure no matter what, but if you have decent grades you can pretty much go to university wherever you want. I think there are only a handful of programs at certain Canadian universities that are really competitive to get into. The US college application process is just bonkers to me and I don't know how American kids cope with all the standardized testing and essays and college interviews.
We opted out. My kids don’t participate in highly competitive activities. We started homeschooling in 2019 and have absolutely loved opting out of the kiddie rat race.
We spend a lot of time outdoors, hiking, the beach, bike rides. We visit museums once or twice a month. We spend our time doing things we truly love. My kids are thriving and all of us are so much happier.
But it comes with “sacrifice.” To homeschool I SAH so we’re on one income. We live in a smaller, older house with only 1 bathroom (but we have an insanely low mortgage). It’s not the most desirable neighborhood but it’s safe, we know all our neighbors and we’re happy. We don’t drive fancy cars, we don’t eat out a lot, we don’t take expensive vacations, but we take a lot of day trips, road trips and one bigger vacation year.
Life is what you make of it. If you hate your lifestyle, you don’t need to move. You need to be more choosy with how you spend your time. Stop activities that are stressful. Do more of what you enjoy even if it’s doing nothing. And don’t care what other people think.
We are in a residential neighborhood near the center of a sprawling HCOL city. Our neighborhood is affordable in comparison to many others and the schools are good, but not great (in ratings / test scores which align with the socioeconomic makeup of the neighborhood). It’s a bit of a unicorn in that we have great social groups, and everyone knows everyone via various schools and extracurriculars. It’s still in the middle of a city though so I don’t let my kids roam free with their friends like I would if we were in a smaller town.
There are definitely more affluent neighborhoods that sound like what you describe, although with a bit more of a west coast (not LA) laid back attitude. I think there’s more competition with sports than with academics, at least until high school, but if you are in the “best” rated school district and or school, you are going to have more of the parents who act that way and made sure their kids were going there. My kids are in a dual language public schools and our city has lots of options for that.
I went to school in an idyllic little 4th of July Americana type town with only 1 small high school, but it was 10 minutes from a major freeway and larger towns/ cities which was a great balance. It was very diverse and there was lots to do. If it were isolated it would have not been fun. My nephews live there and it seems like it hasn’t changed much. I sometimes wish I’d become a profession that could be located in any mid-size town instead of one that seems to be tied to a big city and the accompanying rat race. I do think the grass is always greener though. We moved away for 3 years and moved back. Relocating with kids can be challenging. Maybe look for a better fit of a neighborhood or school in your region, or only relocate further if you are really familiar with the place and know it’s a great place to live.