Post by hereonceagain on Oct 3, 2012 18:41:26 GMT -5
I wonder if there's a higher chance of dying in an accident on the 405 in heavy traffic to get to the doctor to get a flu shot versus dying of the flu. I'd love to see those statistics.
I'm going to need to see some research that shows that the flu shot is able to control outbreaks of the flu across large regions (i.e., states, nations... hell, even one single elementary school or hospital) with annual vaccination exactly as it is administered right now. If that were its intended use, administration of the flu shot would be standardized and mandatory like vaccinations given in childhood.
I don't argue that it's nice of people to get the flu shot in order to reduce the risk of transmission to others, but the flu strains are always evolving, and the shot simply reduces your risk of getting the flu. It is not foolproof. And it is not meant to be a society-wide solution to protect the immunocompromised. It's to help YOU, this year, not get the latest and greatest strain of flu.
We can disagree, but calling me "obtuse or just an asshole" is uncalled for.
RESULTS: The required percentage that would have been required to establish herd immunity against previous influenza viruses ranged from 13% to 100% for the 1918-19, 1957-58, 1968-69 and 2009-10 pandemic viruses, and from 30% to 40% for the 2008-09 epidemic virus. The objectives of vaccination coverage proposed in the United States - 80% in healthy persons and 90% in high-risk persons - are sufficient to establish herd immunity, while those proposed in Europe - only 75% in elderly and high-risk persons - are not sufficient. The percentages of vaccination coverage registered in the United States and Europe are not sufficient to establish herd immunity. CONCLUSION: The influenza vaccination coverage must be increased in the United States and Europe in order to establish herd immunity. It is necessary to develop new influenza prevention messages based on herd immunity.
This article actually sides with my point. We'd have to increase its use to 90% in order for it to establish herd immunity. As it is administered now, it does not do that.
For the record, I would support requiring a flu vaccine en masse for everyone's benefit. I am practically a socialist as it is. My point was that the way we administer it now, willy-nilly and totally voluntary, only prevents the individual and doesn't create a cumulative benefit.
Wait, thegooser, your reason for not getting it is because not enough people get it? Imagine everyone thought that?
Imagine people adopted the same strategy for voting, "the democratic candidate never wins in my area, so why bother voting?" that democratic candidate will never win if nobody can be bothered to vote for him/her.
That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. And very selfish. You are saying "i will wait until the other 89%" do their part.
Funny how many MMer's say to never trust the government and then later say the government is the most reliable source on how we care for our bodies. So which is it?
Post by NachoProblem on Oct 3, 2012 18:55:23 GMT -5
Ditto hanna - gooser, so the reason you're against it is because it's not mandatory? Even though you understand the collective good that can come from it? Every single person who gets vaccinated helps. Every additional vaccinated person increases the herd immunity. Those vaccinated increase herd immunity effects without there being 100% herd immunity....
It seemed like everyone piled on the 2 people who opt out of the flu shot.
I honestly don't care if you get the flu shot or not. But when someone goes on a message board and says that doctors and nurses recommend NOT getting it, that person needs to be called out for passing on misinformation.
Wait, thegooser, your reason for not getting it is because not enough people get it? Imagine everyone thought that?
Imagine people adopted the same strategy for voting, "the democratic candidate never wins in my area, so why bother voting?" that democratic candidate will never win if nobody can be bothered to vote for him/her.
That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. And very selfish. You are saying "i will wait until the other 89%" do their part.
Technically I did get my flu shot. But I probably wouldn't if I didn't have to for work, because I'm terrified of needles. I would get the mist. I'm arguing this on principle though.
I don't think it's selfish. I think it's logical. Do you know what kind of effort it would take to get 90% of the population to get the flu shot? The kind of money and resources and employees? Once that happens, I'm completely happy to get on board and do my part. But berating people over not getting a flu shot when in reality their flu shot will not be sufficient to get you where you want to go anyway (herd immunity, greater good) is just silly. As of this flu season, the flu vaccine doesn't work that way. It has the potential to someday, but not today.
Thegooser, why doesnt the shot have the potential to do that? (if we had 90% compliance) Yes, they may pick the wrong strains but they may also pick the right one. More often than not, they do predict the right one.
I got mine today! It didn't hurt at all and I don't even feel crappy today. My arm is very minimally sore but much less that in past years. I'd say this was the easiest flu shot yet.
It was free at work. I never got a flu shot before I started working at a company that gave them out - it wasn't even on my radar to get one. I have never had the flu either so it never seemed important. If I ever leave my current company (which I assume I will someday!) I hope I remember to go get a shot! They make it too easy this way.
This is such a stupid argument. I've never been in a bad car accident, but I still put on my seatbelt every time I get in the car. Just because something hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it never will.
I got the flu when I was a college athlete working out 3+ hours a day. You don't get much healthier than that. I couldn't get out of bed for 2 weeks, and it wrecked me so bad it was like I hadn't worked out in months. I've never been that sick in my life and there is no way I'm going through that again if I can avoid. Which, guess what, I most likely can if I get a flu shot. Amazing!
Also, even if you think you don't know or come into contact with anyone immunosuppressed, you do. If you met my brother, you'd think he was a normal, healthy 26 year old. But as a type 1 diabetic, he's immunosuppressed.
I asked at the hospital and they said they weren't even giving flu shots until 10/1. I'm annoyed that I have to make a separate trip or wait for my 6 week checkup now based on a few days. (I was discharged on the 27th.). Grr.
Weird. They've been giving them here since August. I am getting mine on Friday (free flu shots for faculty, woo!)
Confession - I've only had one flu shot in my life. It was when I was pregnant and my doctor basically said you had to. I never realized it was a big deal and apparently neither did my parents as they never got us shots. I've had the flu once in my life when I was a young child.
Confession - I've only had one flu shot in my life. It was when I was pregnant and my doctor basically said you had to. I never realized it was a big deal and apparently neither did my parents as they never got us shots. I've had the flu once in my life when I was a young child.
I don't think that flu shots were really a thing when we were kids? Or at least, I don't remember them being a big deal back then.
They seem to have gained momentum in the last few years? (perhaps because of swine flu and such?)
I get one every year for free at work but I also end up with a bad head cold after. Got one last Thur and today I have no voice and a sore throat
It is literally impossible for the flu shot to cause a head cold. Impossible.
Well then it must be a big ole coincidence that I get a cold every year after getting the flu shot because I'm telling you it happens! It won't stop me from getting the shot though.
Confession - I've only had one flu shot in my life. It was when I was pregnant and my doctor basically said you had to. I never realized it was a big deal and apparently neither did my parents as they never got us shots. I've had the flu once in my life when I was a young child.
I don't think that flu shots were really a thing when we were kids? Or at least, I don't remember them being a big deal back then.
They seem to have gained momentum in the last few years? (perhaps because of swine flu and such?)
Or I could be wrong
My first flu shot was when I was 12 in 1996. I remember because my mom was going through cancer treatment.
Confession - I've only had one flu shot in my life. It was when I was pregnant and my doctor basically said you had to. I never realized it was a big deal and apparently neither did my parents as they never got us shots. I've had the flu once in my life when I was a young child.
I don't think that flu shots were really a thing when we were kids? Or at least, I don't remember them being a big deal back then.
They seem to have gained momentum in the last few years? (perhaps because of swine flu and such?)
Or I could be wrong
Could be it! I'll be getting mine this year though since I work with kids!
I had my first flu shot in grad school in 2004. I have no idea why it never occurred to me (or my parents) before that. I have gotten a flu shot every year since then.
It is literally impossible for the flu shot to cause a head cold. Impossible.
Well then it must be a big ole coincidence that I get a cold every year after getting the flu shot because I'm telling you it happens! It won't stop me from getting the shot though.
Think about when you get your flu shot. It's when colds and fall allergies are also prevalent. But you did not get the flu or a cold from the flu shot. Not immunologically possible.
I am getting mine on the 10th. I whine like a baby because it makes my arm hurt, but w/ my dad having terminal cancer, I sure as hell am not going to risk giving him something I could have prevented.
When there is a shortage of vaccines, I bet you guys run and take them away for yourselves at the expense of young children, elderly and the sick.
Well, me stepping in for my shot isn't a healthy person taking away from someone else. That person might have a dad on chemo and that person wants to do what they can to protect their dad.
When there is a shortage of vaccines, I bet you guys run and take them away for yourselves at the expense of young children, elderly and the sick.
Absolutely not. As I said above, the shots aren't just so I don't get sick -- they're to make sure I don't get others sick. Before Amelia Pond pointed that out to me in last year's flu shot debate, I thought it was just about me not getting sick, and therefore didn't bother getting one because it didn't seem worth it to me. Now I get it pretty much just because of the herd immunity aspect. If it was scarce and me getting it would mean that someone who needed it wouldn't get it, no way would I get it.
Wait, thegooser, your reason for not getting it is because not enough people get it? Imagine everyone thought that?
Imagine people adopted the same strategy for voting, "the democratic candidate never wins in my area, so why bother voting?" that democratic candidate will never win if nobody can be bothered to vote for him/her.
That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. And very selfish. You are saying "i will wait until the other 89%" do their part.
Technically I did get my flu shot. But I probably wouldn't if I didn't have to for work, because I'm terrified of needles. I would get the mist. I'm arguing this on principle though.
I don't think it's selfish. I think it's logical. Do you know what kind of effort it would take to get 90% of the population to get the flu shot? The kind of money and resources and employees? Once that happens, I'm completely happy to get on board and do my part. But berating people over not getting a flu shot when in reality their flu shot will not be sufficient to get you where you want to go anyway (herd immunity, greater good) is just silly. As of this flu season, the flu vaccine doesn't work that way. It has the potential to someday, but not today.
Do you feel this way about other vaccines, like DTaP, MMR, IPV, etc? Our vaccine rate has fallen for all vaccines because of crazy non-vaxers. And herd immunity is going away. But it is still irresponsible and detrimental to society not to encourage vaccines for every person who is eligible. We can't just throw up our hands because we have idiots (some doctors included) running around in society who don't believe in science.