Transgendered Girl's School Refusing Mediation

[pixy0stix]

READ THIS FIRST! It gives an in depth look to how the family reached this conclusion: www.gazette.com/articles/transgender-151539-girl-year.html

Today's article:

kdvr.com/2013/03/08/district-wont-enter-mediation-with-transgender-girl-banned-from-bathrooms/


FORT CARSON, Colo. — Lawyers for a 6-year-old transgender girl who was banned from the girls’ bathroom at her elementary school are shocked at the school district refusal to enter into a suggested mediation session with the girl’s family.

Coy Mathis, a first grader who formerly attended Eagleside Elementary School, is now being home schooled. Her parents, Kathryn and Jeremy Mathis, filed a complaint against Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 with the Colorado Civil Rights Division on Feb. 15.

The Division suggested the two parties take part in a mediation session ahead of a March 17 deadline, at which point the school district will have to respond to the Mathis’ complaint.

According to the Colorado Springs Gazette, the district refused not only to take part in the mediation but to comment on their decision to do so, as well.

“I’m surprised,” Michael Silverman, a lawyer for the New York-based Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund, told the newspaper. “There should always be room to address concerns, but we can’t do that if they won’t speak to us.”

In 2006, Coy Mathis was born a boy, the first of three triplets. But 18 months after her birth, Kathryn and Jeremy said Coy was already self-identifying as a girl. For over a year, she attended Eagleside Elementary as a girl.

This January was the first time the school told her she could no longer use the girls bathroom, the family says.

“They told us our options were to use the nurse’s bathroom, the boy’s bathroom or the staff bathroom,” Kathryn said.

Silverman and the family are calling the school’s decision unacceptable, saying it targets Coy for stigma, bullying and harassment.

[Deleted]

WTF is the school district thinking. They aren't going to win and they are going to end up costing the taxpayers a tonne of $$$.

My kids' school is pretty new. They have 2 private bathrooms in btwn 2 classrooms (you know safer for lock down drills). Either gender can use them.

[Deleted]

I don't know why the school is being such dicks in a box over this. It really isn't a big deal to let this little girl use whatever bathroom she feels like.

[pixy0stix]

I need to just hide the news fb post now. ::head explodes::

[ttt]

18 months old???

I still don't quite understand how you can diagnose this at such a young age when there are virtually no other mental illnesses that you can diagnose so young.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 8, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

18 months old???

I still don't quite understand how you can diagnose this at such a young age when there are virtually no other mental illnesses that you can diagnose so young.

^o) Did you really just say this is a mental illness?

Should I dig up the old thread where it was pointed out over and over and over again that there are studies out there that clearly show that we identify as one gender over the other at a young age. Where there are certain clues about transgendered individuals that show up almost universally at that age. Or how about the news articles that said this family consulted with psychiatrists/psychologists/and the transgendered community before reaching their conclusion.

[PinkSquirrel]

Mar 8, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

18 months old???

I still don't quite understand how you can diagnose this at such a young age when there are virtually no other mental illnesses that you can diagnose so young.

Maybe because it's not a mental illness that requires diagnosis

[ttt]

Mar 8, 2013 12:01:49 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 8, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

18 months old???

I still don't quite understand how you can diagnose this at such a young age when there are virtually no other mental illnesses that you can diagnose so young.

Did you really just say this is a mental illness?

Should I dig up the old thread where it was pointed out over and over and over again that there are studies out there that clearly show that we identify as one gender over the other at a young age. Where there are certain clues about transgendered individuals that show up almost universally at that age. Or how about the news articles that said this family consulted with psychiatrists/psychologists/and the transgendered community before reaching their conclusion.

If its not a mental illness what is it? If its not a mental illness then there's no need for treatment like surgery or hormones then right?

[Deleted]

I have a big tub of popcorn who wants to sit next to me.

[ttt]

Didn't we have a huge debate where denying an inmate a sex reassignment surgery at taxpayer expense was likened to denying an inmate chemotherapy?

[pixy0stix]

Mar 8, 2013 12:03:11 GMT -5 ttt said:

If its not a mental illness what is it? If its not a mental illness then there's no need for treatment like surgery or hormones then right?

Because sometimes the person's own body is triggering the gender identity. Hidden ovaries, production of testosterone, etc. I'm not saying that's happening here, but it's not an issue that's as cut and dried as saying that it's a mental illness.

[iammalcolmx]

Mar 8, 2013 12:04:02 GMT -5 @septimus said:

I have a big tub of popcorn who wants to sit next to me.

I will bring the Soda.

[iammalcolmx]

Mar 8, 2013 12:04:11 GMT -5 ttt said:

Didn't we have a huge debate where denying an inmate a sex reassignment surgery at taxpayer expense was likened to denying an inmate chemotherapy?

All I remember about that was reading the details of his crimes and not giving a crap about his new found gender issues.

[Deleted]

Thanks for posting the first article! This case is really fascinating. I think because Coy is a triplet, it makes the differences between her and other XY males more stark and visible from an early age. I think it's so great that her parents are trying to be so open and accepting of her differences. I can't imagine being in their position but it really sounds like they are trying to put her first and figure out what she needs. And it's so interesting to me that most of the kids just accepted her transition at face value! Sounds like the adults running that school could stand to learn a few things from them about tolerance.

[KateAggie]

I'm not calling it a mental illness, but I am uncomfortable with deciding this at such a young age. I'm torn, though, because I think it's really important to encourage individuality and acceptance.

All that said, the bathroom thing is ridiculous. School district needs to back off.

[Deleted]

I'd say disorder, not illness. And you don't have to have an illness or disorder to require treatment.

[ttt]

Mar 8, 2013 12:07:59 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

this is a "mental illness" in the same way that homosexuality was once a "mental illness"

But being gay doesn't require any treatment.

Either it's an illness/disability and institutions such as prisons and schools should be required to provide treatment and make accommodations, or it's not and they shouldn't.

[livinitup]

Mar 8, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

18 months old???

I still don't quite understand how you can diagnose this at such a young age when there are virtually no other mental illnesses that you can diagnose so young.

It's not a mental illness. Feel free to educate yourself.

www.glaad.org/transgender?gclid=CN3qo_vU7bUCFexaMgodc1QAmQ

safezone.fsu.edu/info.html

[overture]

I wouldn't call gender dysphoria a mental illness. The problem is in the body, not the brain.

[mominatrix]

I think when you read the first article it all seems so natural. Like, something any of us would do with our kids, one step at a time. IMHO, it's when the child is asking to go to the doctor to fix their body that you know you have a real issue. And before anybody asks, it IS the sort of thing a kid would say.



Her father is an ex-Marine, FFS. Not to stereotype, but it's not like this family is all steeped in the GAY AGENDA!!11!!!! and want to make an example of their kid. They seem to be just riding the wave of who she is.









Now, the diagnosis / disability thing is ROUGH. I had this conversation a while back (like, 15+ years back) and it hasn't gotten any easier.



Sexual orientation is not protected from discrimination at the federal level. It might be in her state, but let's assume it's not. (We'll go back to if it is in a minute). There are some who try to wedge these issues into a sex discrimination theory, and it kind of works and kind of doesn't.



The problem here isn't that she's being actually discriminated against, but that she needs a reasonable accommodation and isn't getting it. A reasonable accommodation in this case is a bending of the rules - - to allow somebody with boy parts to go into the girl's bathroom. Now, there's no provision in the law to provide reasonable accommodation to different sexual orientations (assuming that they're protected under the law) or to different sexes. The only reasonable accommodations are to religion and to disability. 

Religious accommodations are usually things like letting people wear head scarves or yarmulkes if they're out of uniform, or allowing breaks during the day to pray.

Disability accommodations, as we all know, can be much bigger and wide sweeping. Something like using a different bathroom would fall squarely in a disability accommodation.

Now, in order to be eligible for a disability accommodation under ADA, you have to show that you're disabled - - that you have a condition that substantially limits a major life activity. So we talk about the impact on people's lives of having a gender identity disorder. 

...so we go back to patholigizing it. Which may or may not be a good idea, but is pretty much necessary legally.



And, IMHO, isn't really the problem. Just because we say somebody has a diagnosis doesn't mean they should be shunned, right?  Having a diagnosis provides a road map to treatment... why do we think that it's more than that, that it's a label on the person?

[heyjude]

Omg.

She just wants to use the girl's bathroom.

Can we stop acting as if she wants to permanently alter her body or hormones?

She currently self identifies as female. So what? Maybe she won't in a few years. Maybe she will. Using the bathroom where girls use the bathroom does not change anything about who she is or who she will be as a person.

Also hard side eye over comparing this to a mental illness.

Harder side eye to the school.

[pixy0stix]

CO has a law that she *has* to receive reasonable accommodation. Let me see if I can find it.

ETA: www.soyouwanna.com/transgender-colorado-law-37509.html

Specifically - Gender-segregated entities, such as public restrooms and locker rooms,
are not required to provide unisex facilities under this law.
Individuals have the right to access these facilities based on their
gender identity--not their gender assigned at birth.

[overture]

Mar 8, 2013 12:45:57 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

Now, in order to be eligible for a disability accommodation under ADA, you have to show that you're disabled - - that you have a condition that substantially limits a major life activity. So we talk about the impact on people's lives of having a gender identity disorder.

This is interesting.  It's a strange condition in that the body and the brain are both technically functioning in a normal way (all other things being equal).  They just don't relate to each other in a typical way.  Is feeling comfortable in your body a "major life activity" that could benefit from ADA protection?

ETA: My knowledge of ADA is limited to design issues, and I can't really think of any design issues besides interpreting the woman symbol on the bathroom door as meaning one's gender instead of one's sex.

[meshaliuknits]

Mar 8, 2013 12:49:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

CO has a law that she *has* to receive reasonable accommodation. Let me see if I can find it.

ETA: www.soyouwanna.com/transgender-colorado-law-37509.html

Specifically - Gender-segregated entities, such as public restrooms and locker rooms,
are not required to provide unisex facilities under this law.
Individuals have the right to access these facilities based on their
gender identity--not their gender assigned at birth.

So the school is setting itself up for a lawsuit it cannot win?

[pixy0stix]

Mar 8, 2013 12:55:33 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Mar 8, 2013 12:49:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

CO has a law that she *has* to receive reasonable accommodation. Let me see if I can find it.

ETA: www.soyouwanna.com/transgender-colorado-law-37509.html

Specifically - Gender-segregated entities, such as public restrooms and locker rooms,
are not required to provide unisex facilities under this law.
Individuals have the right to access these facilities based on their
gender identity--not their gender assigned at birth.

So the school is setting itself up for a lawsuit it cannot win?

That I don't know. Unless they're setting themselves up to challenge the law.

[doobeedoo]

Great summary.  I see both sides of this issue....
I don't know the legal obligations here, but could offering up alternative bathrooms (staff, nurse) be considered a "reasonable" accommodation in this case?  

I would assume that transgendered people of all ages have this bathroom issue--how is it normally dealt with?  Does anyone know? 

Mar 8, 2013 12:45:57 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

 <ABBR class=time title="Mar 8, 2013 12:45:57 GMT -5" data-timestamp="1362764757000">Mar 8, 2013 12:45:57 GMT -5</ABBR> mominatrix said:

Mar 8, 2013 12:45:57 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

I think when you read the first article it all seems so natural. Like, something any of us would do with our kids, one step at a time. IMHO, it's when the child is asking to go to the doctor to fix their body that you know you have a real issue. And before anybody asks, it IS the sort of thing a kid would say.



Her father is an ex-Marine, FFS. Not to stereotype, but it's not like this family is all steeped in the GAY AGENDA!!11!!!! and want to make an example of their kid. They seem to be just riding the wave of who she is.









Now, the diagnosis / disability thing is ROUGH. I had this conversation a while back (like, 15+ years back) and it hasn't gotten any easier.



Sexual orientation is not protected from discrimination at the federal level. It might be in her state, but let's assume it's not. (We'll go back to if it is in a minute). There are some who try to wedge these issues into a sex discrimination theory, and it kind of works and kind of doesn't.



The problem here isn't that she's being actually discriminated against, but that she needs a reasonable accommodation and isn't getting it. A reasonable accommodation in this case is a bending of the rules - - to allow somebody with boy parts to go into the girl's bathroom. Now, there's no provision in the law to provide reasonable accommodation to different sexual orientations (assuming that they're protected under the law) or to different sexes. The only reasonable accommodations are to religion and to disability. 

Religious accommodations are usually things like letting people wear head scarves or yarmulkes if they're out of uniform, or allowing breaks during the day to pray.

Disability accommodations, as we all know, can be much bigger and wide sweeping. Something like using a different bathroom would fall squarely in a disability accommodation.

Now, in order to be eligible for a disability accommodation under ADA, you have to show that you're disabled - - that you have a condition that substantially limits a major life activity. So we talk about the impact on people's lives of having a gender identity disorder. 

...so we go back to patholigizing it. Which may or may not be a good idea, but is pretty much necessary legally.



And, IMHO, isn't really the problem. Just because we say somebody has a diagnosis doesn't mean they should be shunned, right?  Having a diagnosis provides a road map to treatment... why do we think that it's more than that, that it's a label on the person?

[mominatrix]

Mar 8, 2013 12:49:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

CO has a law that she *has* to receive reasonable accommodation. Let me see if I can find it.

ETA: www.soyouwanna.com/transgender-colorado-law-37509.html

Specifically - Gender-segregated entities, such as public restrooms and locker rooms,
are not required to provide unisex facilities under this law.
Individuals have the right to access these facilities based on their
gender identity--not their gender assigned at birth.

OK, then, very specific Colorado law, no need to do the federal ADA thing.

Forget I was ever here!

[overture]

Letting her use the girl's bathroom is a more reasonable accommodation for the school than using the nurse's office or a staff bathroom. Someone might have to let her in to the staff or nurse's bathroom, while she could use the girl's bathroom by herself. She would be gone from class longer to use the other bathrooms, as they wouldn't be located as close to classroom as the student bathrooms are. The school has to do less work in just letting her use the girl's bathroom.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 8, 2013 12:58:08 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

Mar 8, 2013 12:49:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

CO has a law that she *has* to receive reasonable accommodation. Let me see if I can find it.

ETA: www.soyouwanna.com/transgender-colorado-law-37509.html

Specifically - Gender-segregated entities, such as public restrooms and locker rooms,
are not required to provide unisex facilities under this law.
Individuals have the right to access these facilities based on their
gender identity--not their gender assigned at birth.

OK, then, very specific Colorado law, no need to do the federal ADA thing.

Forget I was ever here!

Nuh uh, because you have to answer Mesh's question!

[soozy87]

Mar 8, 2013 12:48:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Omg.

She just wants to use the girl's bathroom.

Can we stop acting as if she wants to permanently alter her body or hormones?

She currently self identifies as female. So what? Maybe she won't in a few years. Maybe she will. Using the bathroom where girls use the bathroom does not change anything about who she is or who she will be as a person.

Also hard side eye over comparing this to a mental illness.

Harder side eye to the school.

I would not be okay with my daughter using the same bathroom as this child. Boy parts belong in the boy's bathroom, not in the girl's bathroom.