It's pretty obvious that everybody in this situation has major boundary issues and issues identifying what is/is not appropriate behavior. OP has been a part of this situation since the beginning, do you really think she is capable of protecting her sister. I mean, this is all very fucked up, but protecting this sister isn't something I have issue with when she couldn't even protect herself. The sister was an adult also.
I don't think the sister is the one the pitchforks should be pointing at. That's all. I'm not going to pile on anything else about the husband. And I think there might be something in the past that would lead to 2 girls not saying WTF to this whole situation.
I don't know what to say. I'm just so sorry sunshine. I'm glad you're going to seek help for yourself. You do not deserve to be treated like this by anyone.
Why havent you consisdered leaving? Do you have some hope that if you can address these issues everything will be normal? Or are you just scared of being divorced, again, i take it?
Thats not snarky, either but since im new i thought id add the disclaimer.
Kind of this. No one ever plans on getting divorced. I don't want to let anyone down. I know I have shit I need to work through. It's very possible I'll stop caring so much about what other people think..
For your own sake, I really hope you stop caring about other people's opinions and feelings and start paying attention to your own. You're only letting yourself down by staying in this situation.
I think you will likely eventually decide to leave your husband, but don't worry about letting people down. If you don't want to make that decision yet, don't. You have counseling set up - focus on that. My only concern is that you'll feel obligated to have sex with him, because you seem to be a people pleaser (I am one, so recognizing similar personality traits). Don't feel like you'll let your family down if you leave him, and don't feel like you have to leave him stat to not let this board down. Heal yourself first and figure out what you need w/the counselor.
And I have a feeling the probability of your husband not having an affair with your sister is very slim.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
Post by juliagoulia on Jun 11, 2013 13:03:21 GMT -5
Sunshineray- I'm really sorry this is happening. I'm glad you are going to go talk to somebody about this & I really hope it helps. You deserve much more than someone like this.
And I have a feeling the probability of your husband not having an affair with your sister is very slim.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
Well, lying is what makes cheating cheating. It sounds like he wants to open up the relationship, which is unconventional, but not cheating if everyone's on board.
It's his other extremely manipulative and untrustworthy behaviors that are far more concerning here.
Post by cheeseandcrackers on Jun 11, 2013 13:04:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that sunshine. There is nothing to discuss, I think you need very intense therapy. You being okay with being polygamous is one thing, but it doesn't sound like you are, at all. I don't think you should expose your child to all of this, he might not realize it now, but he will.
Ok, I've formulated a more helpful response than my initial one.
I would pack up some things and, depending on if your DD lives with you full-time, pack up your DD's things as well. Is there a place you could go for a week to remove yourself from the environment? It's great that you are able to see all the shady shit that's been happening, but I think you need to get out of the house and away from your H and sister.
After you've left book a counseling appointment, contact your lawyer and get your things in order.
Post by LeggsBenedict on Jun 11, 2013 13:06:36 GMT -5
I hope my question wasn't inappropriate. I was in a similar situation 10 years ago and I was thinking of your situation in those terms, but I'm not sure my question is even really relevant having read your follow up information. Sorry.
And I have a feeling the probability of your husband not having an affair with your sister is very slim.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
It makes sense that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him given he is actively trying to get you to sleep with other men. He just wants to be a voyeur right?
I'm really sorry My heart hurts for you. I really do believe that counseling by yourself and really being open and honest about your feelings will help you. You have time to sort it out, so don't feel like you have to react right now if you aren't ready to have the conversation or deal with the consequences.
i hope that, once you get some outside, professional assistance, you're able to see what you really want and what you're really worth, and work through this situation. good luck.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
Well, lying is what makes cheating cheating. It sounds like he wants to open up the relationship, which is unconventional, but not cheating if everyone's on board.
It's his other extremely manipulative and untrustworthy behaviors that are far more concerning here.
This. I believe you mentioned you weren't comfortable with the swinging. Correct? Even if you were, family members should be off limits....it could easily create rifts in the family. I hope you do what's best for YOU, not your H or your sister.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
Well, lying is what makes cheating cheating. It sounds like he wants to open up the relationship, which is unconventional, but not cheating if everyone's on board.
It's his other extremely manipulative and untrustworthy behaviors that are far more concerning here.
Which, in this case, is a gray area. Sunshine has been thinking one thing but saying and/or implying another. Not communicating can be just as toxic to a relationship as lying.
Oh, and he's also sent/received pictures from another girl friend of mine. My life is seriously fucked up you guys... HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS BEFORE??
Whoever said I was in denial was pretty dead on. And no worries, I'm getting myself into counseling stat. I'm not even seriously considering leaving him. Maybe I'll feel differently after I talk to him/a therapist.
Yes it was kinda dumb but you're not doing any good beating yourself up over it. You are, however, doing yourself a huge favor by seeking individual counseling. Good luck.
Really and truly, this doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know how they would ever pull that off, at least on the regular. Could it have happened in the past? Sure, I guess so. But in our current situation I don't know that they'd be able to make it happen. I guess I should also add that I cheated on H back in the day when we were just dating. We broke up over it for awhile and I was in counseling.
We worked through a lot of that shit, so I guess I just have a hard time believing that he would physically cheat on me after all that. When we (he) was talking about the swingers club he actually said to me that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him about cheating, it was mostly the lying about it. Alright ML, dissect that one.
It makes sense that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him given he is actively trying to get you to sleep with other men. He just wants to be a voyeur right?
Well, lying is what makes cheating cheating. It sounds like he wants to open up the relationship, which is unconventional, but not cheating if everyone's on board.
It's his other extremely manipulative and untrustworthy behaviors that are far more concerning here.
Which, in this case, is a gray area. Sunshine has been thinking one thing but saying and/or implying another. Not communicating can be just as toxic to a relationship as lying.
This is a good point. I don't think Sunshine's H is a good guy, by any means, but the fact that she hasn't expressed displeasure with any of this so far has probably led him to believe that she's as into it as he is.
I know how scary speaking up can be. Hell, I'm kind of a people pleaser by nature. But it's so important to do, especially with stakes like these.
Which, in this case, is a gray area. Sunshine has been thinking one thing but saying and/or implying another. Not communicating can be just as toxic to a relationship as lying.
This is a good point. I don't think Sunshine's H is a good guy, by any means, but the fact that she hasn't expressed displeasure with any of this so far has probably led him to believe that she's as into it as he is.
I know how scary speaking up can be. Hell, I'm kind of a people pleaser by nature. But it's so important to do, especially with stakes like these.
Yeah, the thing about it is, is that he has accused me of being insecure/jealous when I expressed concern about the swinger club. He was pretty defensive about it. He has suggested threesomes before (NOT WITH MY SISTER) and I've definitely made it clear that it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. It hasn't come up in awhile, but it's becoming pretty obvious as I'm writing that we are not sexually compatible in any way.
I know I sound like every other abused woman when I say this, but for all his faults my H isn't an asshole. He does asshole things, sure. On the surface, and to everyone else, he is a stand up guy who has his shit together. You would never ever know that this kind of shit goes on.
This DOES sound exactly how most women describe their abusers. Abusive men are not mean and hurtful and crappy all of the time. No one would stay with them if they were. That's how it works.
Your H sounds so, so much like my XH in the way he treats you. Rewarding your "good" behavior (eg "you are suuch a great wife for being okay with me sexting your sister.") and punishing your "bad" behavior (eg giving you the silent treatment for getting sick and interrupting his sexual plans). This is one of the most common ways that men sexually exploit their gfs or wives. He makes her feel like if she was a good partner, she would be "meet his sexual needs" (i.e. do everything he asks) and that by having boundaries or saying no, they are putting their relationship at risk (he could find someone better, he thinks you're a bad wife, he pulls away emotionally and/or physically).
I am 100% okay with any sexual act that happens between consenting adults, but this is not a consensual arrangement and I don't believe for half a second that your H doesn't realize that. It sounds to me like coercion is happening here. This was so helpful in coming to terms with owning that my XH was abusive.
"Social coercion is enforced by societal messages regarding appropriate sex roles for men and women within marriage. For example, survivors of wife rape have said that they believed it was their “wifely duty” to submit to sexual relations, regardless of their own desires (Bergen, 1996; Finkelhor & Yllo, 1985; Russell, 1990). Such beliefs may be reinforced by religious, family, or other cultural norms and are further reinforced when women who attempt to discuss sexual assaults with friends or service providers are rebuffed, not taken seriously, discouraged from taking action, or blamed for the assault. Interpersonal coercion includes threats by husbands that are not of a physical nature; for example, threats to leave the relationship or withhold money. It is important not to minimize the impact of such threats. Many women are economically as well as emotionally dependent upon their husbands, and rely on them for their own and their children’s sustenance. If the husband threatens, “You have sex now or I’ll get sex elsewhere. I’ll leave you,” as cited in Russell (1990), this is a real and potentially terrifying threat. In fact, Russell found that while 70% of the women she interviewed said they were “extremely upset” by threats of a physical nature, a larger 13 proportion of the women (83%) were “extremely upset” by threats to leave or “not love her.” Thus, even women who are economically self-sufficient may submit to having sex against their will, even when it involves painful and/or humiliating acts, rather than risk losing their husbands and the dissolution of their marriage and/or family. "
I honestly hope you do enter counseling and realize that you shouldn't have to live like this. A marriage should be a safe place where you can be honest about your feelings, wants, and needs. What is happening to you is not okay.
Thank you. I teared up a little reading this. It hits a little too close to home right now.
I would just like to offer my support. I'm glad that you will be seeing a counselor to help you work through everything and plan your next steps. You have my best wishes.
This is a good point. I don't think Sunshine's H is a good guy, by any means, but the fact that she hasn't expressed displeasure with any of this so far has probably led him to believe that she's as into it as he is.
I know how scary speaking up can be. Hell, I'm kind of a people pleaser by nature. But it's so important to do, especially with stakes like these.
Yeah, the thing about it is, is that he has accused me of being insecure/jealous when I expressed concern about the swinger club. He was pretty defensive about it. He has suggested threesomes before (NOT WITH MY SISTER) and I've definitely made it clear that it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. It hasn't come up in awhile, but it's becoming pretty obvious as I'm writing that we are not sexually compatible in any way.
The fact that he can't take your boundaries seriously without making you feel bad and getting defensive is another sign that he's selfish and manipulative.
It is easier to just feign consent while seething inside? In the moment, perhaps, but it takes a huge toll after awhile that's really palpable. I feel like I need to repeat that you are not doing yourself any favors.
This is about so, so, so much more than sexual compatibility. This is about control and coercion and the complete disregard of your feelings and boundaries.
Because, look. I don't want to have sex with other people while you watch and I don't want you sexting my sister and I don't want to receive naked photos of my sister are not exactly unreasonable requests.
I wasn't thinking H as pedo/daddy abused her but based on what has been posted, OP seems like a people pleaser (not speaking up, doing things that make her uncomfortable to make her H happy, etc.) and so I think it would be beneficial for her to look at why she is that way/what event(s) may have triggered this people pleasing behavior. The trigger may not be anything sinister (like abuse that people are alluding to) but that doesn't make it an any less of an unhealthy way to live one's life.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the fact that the H is also receiving nude pics from OPs friends! Dude - I said once that this situation seemed frat-hous-y and that just sealed the deal. You H views you, your sister, your friends as toys to fuck around with. You've got a DD. Surround yourself with grownups.
I'm only through top of page 5, but everything I've read has sent up red flags for me. Were you (and/or your sister) victims of abuse or molestation as kids? You don't have to answer here. But if so, please seek counseling and take care of yourself. Big hugs.
ETA: It looks like someone else already brought something like this up and then DDed. I'll leave it alone and stand by the "take care of yourself."
I wasn't thinking H as pedo/daddy abused her but based on what has been posted, OP seems like a people pleaser (not speaking up, doing things that make her uncomfortable to make her H happy, etc.) and so I think it would be beneficial for her to look at why she is that way/what event(s) may have triggered this people pleasing behavior. The trigger may not be anything sinister (like abuse that people are alluding to) but that doesn't make it an any less of an unhealthy way to live one's life.
Are you a licensed therapist?
If not, shut up. You are not being helpful. You are making assumptions and casting about for some reason she's behaved/reacted the way she has, which isn't going to do her any good until she's seeing a professional.
She's already said she's going to make an appointment with one, and undoubtedly THEY will be able to guide and advise her appropriately.