I wasn't thinking H as pedo/daddy abused her but based on what has been posted, OP seems like a people pleaser (not speaking up, doing things that make her uncomfortable to make her H happy, etc.) and so I think it would be beneficial for her to look at why she is that way/what event(s) may have triggered this people pleasing behavior. The trigger may not be anything sinister (like abuse that people are alluding to) but that doesn't make it an any less of an unhealthy way to live one's life.
I could take some pretty good guesses as to why/what happened, but that's a conversation for me and a therapist. I am definitely a people pleaser. It's not a wonderful trait.
i hope that, once you get some outside, professional assistance, you're able to see what you really want and what you're really worth, and work through this situation. good luck.
This is what I was thinking. It makes me so sad to think that you do not see that you are worth so much more then this and I don´t even know you. No one deserves this, no one.
Post by chalupabatman on Jun 11, 2013 13:33:29 GMT -5
I know this thread has gone on a long time, but wanted to add that what you're experiencing is abuse. He's pushing your boundaries and forcing you into situations that make you feel ashamed/uncomfortable, then berating you when you speak up and praising you when you shut up and follow along. There's a fair possibility he isn't sleeping with your sister...he doesn't need to. He can get naked pictures, etc. etc. with your "permission". Most abusive people are not out and out assholes, that's what makes them so effective. They can charm the people around them and con their victim into second guessing herself, her needs, her instincts.
The good news is that you are still in a position to get out, be happy with your daughter and be a role model for her as to what she should want and expect in a relationship. Women who grow up in abusive households are much more likely to wind up in abusive relationships for themselves. Ending this marriage would not be a failure, even though I know it feels like it. It would be your success in standing up for yourself and for giving your DD a positive environment to grow up in. I'm glad you're starting counseling, it may take a long time to get the bottom of why you allow people to treat you poorly, but I hope it leads you to happiness. You deserve it.
By asking your sister's age, I wasn't suggesting that your H is a pedo, but I can't help but feel like someone young and impressionable was taken advantage of. I'm kind of sickened that you were complicit in that. I think you're glossing over how truly messed up it is that you both involved her. This isn't about your H's sexual desires to swing etc., it's the way he went about it.
I truly hope you find your way out of this mess. If your sister and friends are sexting your H, you really need to surround yourself with better people. I hope that happens.
I appreciate this. I'm certainly not attempting to gloss over my involvement. That is exactly why I expected flaming. It seemed at the time that she was fine with it. I can't say with any certainty whether or not that is true.
Right now, by putting this out here, I am kind of forcing myself to face it. I have to start fully recognizing how truly disturbing the whole scenario is, get therapy, and go from there.
If not, shut up. You are not being helpful. You are making assumptions and casting about for some reason she's behaved/reacted the way she has, which isn't going to do her any good until she's seeing a professional.
She's already said she's going to make an appointment with one, and undoubtedly THEY will be able to guide and advise her appropriately.
Well, by this logic we should all shut up then.
That doesn't seem to be such a bad idea when half the posts are people who haven't read past the first 2 pages, or are projecting their own issues, or conjecture and reach for wild reasonings, or just want to say Ewww, or or or or...
She has realized she is no longer ok with any of this. She said she's going to see a therapist. Its not our job to flail about using our Psych 101 expertise to diagnose her or her H or her sister or further tell her how fucked up it all is. She knows that now.
The fact that there are people here who think the sister is too young to grasp what's happening is laughable.
I'm 23. When I was 21, I knew damn well not to send nude photos to family members. Or their spouses. At 23, I'm still VERY aware of the fact that you do.not. do this.
I think her sister would benefit from therapy as well and needs to get a handle on boundaries as well.
ETA: My point is, young 20's doesn't automatically mean they are too impressionable or that they don't know what they are doing. If you're old enough to take nude photos of yourself, you're old enough to know what is appropriate or not.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Post by sunshineray on Jun 11, 2013 13:49:00 GMT -5
Listen. I came her for advice. Sure, I may have been slightly intoxicated when I started the thread. Still, I don't regret posting it. It's obviously something that has been eating away at me, and I needed to face. Coming in here and seeing everyone's passionate responses has really made me think.
At the end of the day, I know I need counseling. I should have had more when I divorced my first husband (who was physically/emotionally abusive.) I should have waited longer to get married. I should have stopped this kind of behavior when it started. The thing is, I made a series of bad decisions, which didn't always seem so major at the time.
I own my life choices, just like I will own whatever choice I make moving forward.
Sunshine, I think you do the best you can. You're admitting this is wrong and that it is inappropriate.
Do what you need to do for yourself and the well being of your DD. But I would hope that you won't stay with him because you deserve better than what he is giving.
If you and your sister truly are close, I would have a talk with her about why she sends the photos. Don't accuse her, but ask her. Is he asking her to? Does she honestly not see a big deal about showing her naked body to family? And go from there.
sunshineray I'm glad you've come to the realizations you have, and I hope you find a wonderful therapist who can help you deal with everything in the best way possible. I wish you nothing but the best.
Listen. I came her for advice. Sure, I may have been slightly intoxicated when I started the thread. Still, I don't regret posting it. It's obviously something that has been eating away at me, and I needed to face. Coming in here and seeing everyone's passionate responses has really made me think.
At the end of the day, I know I need counseling. I should have had more when I divorced my first husband (who was physically/emotionally abusive.) I should have waited longer to get married. I should have stopped this kind of behavior when it started. The thing is, I made a series of bad decisions, which didn't always seem so major at the time.
I own my life choices, just like I will own whatever choice I make moving forward.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda....that bolded statement is what really matters
Post by wrathofkuus on Jun 11, 2013 14:03:21 GMT -5
Hey, good luck. And don't beat yourself up over not saying no or not seeing how crazy this all is - it's the nature of the beast that with a guy like this, things get weird along a continuum until you no longer are able to tell what is and isn't acceptable. It can happen to pretty much anyone.
I wasn't thinking H as pedo/daddy abused her but based on what has been posted, OP seems like a people pleaser (not speaking up, doing things that make her uncomfortable to make her H happy, etc.) and so I think it would be beneficial for her to look at why she is that way/what event(s) may have triggered this people pleasing behavior. The trigger may not be anything sinister (like abuse that people are alluding to) but that doesn't make it an any less of an unhealthy way to live one's life.
Are you a licensed therapist?
If not, shut up. You are not being helpful. You are making assumptions and casting about for some reason she's behaved/reacted the way she has, which isn't going to do her any good until she's seeing a professional.
She's already said she's going to make an appointment with one, and undoubtedly THEY will be able to guide and advise her appropriately.
Oh sweet baby jesus. I said I didn't think it was anything sinister.
sunshineray I am sorry if you took my post as offensive. That wan't my intent. I fell into the trap of only looking at things from my own frame of reference - which is my DH. He was a big people pleaser when he was younger and spent quite a bit of time in counseling/therapy trying to figure out why after his divorce from his first wife. There wasn't abuse in his family, just a lot of disfunction from his grandparents on down. Relationships within his family were (and, to some extent, still are) rocky and not always healthy but he said that the counseling helped him break the patterns he had fallen into. He says he still struggles sometimes but it is easier now since he has the tools he learned in counseling.
Post by sunshineray on Jun 11, 2013 14:20:20 GMT -5
nomad100 - I really wasn't offended. Having obviously read the whole thread, I can see what fuckstick's point was and where that came from. Either way, it wasn't a big deal and I don't think anyone is worked up about it. I know all we can do is speak from our own experience, and I got that impression from your post.
do you feel lucky to have him or something. Why are you putting up with this. There were red flags BEFORE you got married. the whole pics of you and your sister. I cannot even imagine if my dh asked my sister to send him pics.. and if she obliged.. NO F'in way. but if you were okay with that in the past who is to say she and he aren't thinking "No big deal... she won't care if we have sex.. its just sex" The whole swinger thing I mean it sounds like he is a bit kinky which isn't for me. But whatever. I wonder if the swinger thing is even a shock to you...
And when you say you got legitamately sick and he got mad it made me think. Are you going along with all this to keep the peace but then had to play sick because you didn't want to go through with it?
I am sorry, I normally don't accuse but your story has holes in it. Naked pics of sister okay, swinging okay until you actually ahve to go to a club.
One other question, is there drinking or any other drugs involved? ecstacy or somethign that makes you super sexual? I had a friend who did that with her husband and she would say and do soem crazy kinky stuff with him. But then she woudl feel bad. Because she did that stuff with him he automatically thought they could push the envelope further.
Again this is all speculation but my thoughts are that you need to figure out what is okay with you in your relationship and let him know. Don't play along with things that offend you or upset you. But as a stranger on the internet I can be honest with you and say I woulnd't be the least bit surprised if they have hooked up. to what capacity who can say.
do you feel lucky to have him or something. Why are you putting up with this. There were red flags BEFORE you got married. the whole pics of you and your sister. I cannot even imagine if my dh asked my sister to send him pics.. and if she obliged.. NO F'in way. but if you were okay with that in the past who is to say she and he aren't thinking "No big deal... she won't care if we have sex.. its just sex" The whole swinger thing I mean it sounds like he is a bit kinky which isn't for me. But whatever. I wonder if the swinger thing is even a shock to you...
And when you say you got legitamately sick and he got mad it made me think. Are you going along with all this to keep the peace but then had to play sick because you didn't want to go through with it?
I am sorry, I normally don't accuse but your story has holes in it. Naked pics of sister okay, swinging okay until you actually ahve to go to a club.
One other question, is there drinking or any other drugs involved? ecstacy or somethign that makes you super sexual? I had a friend who did that with her husband and she would say and do soem crazy kinky stuff with him. But then she woudl feel bad. Because she did that stuff with him he automatically thought they could push the envelope further.
Again this is all speculation but my thoughts are that you need to figure out what is okay with you in your relationship and let him know. Don't play along with things that offend you or upset you. But as a stranger on the internet I can be honest with you and say I woulnd't be the least bit surprised if they have hooked up. to what capacity who can say.
ETA: Also just want to say HUGS to you. I hope whatever you decide you are happy. Don't settle for anything less than your happiness
It makes sense that it wasn't the sex part that bothered him given he is actively trying to get you to sleep with other men. He just wants to be a voyeur right?
Post by EmilieMadison on Jun 11, 2013 14:58:32 GMT -5
It sounds like you've had a bit of a shocking wake-up regarding your marriage/life. That must be horrifying, but it means you can do what you need to do to make the necessary changes. Be strong! You can do this.
This is such a horrible situation for you. I can only imagine the thoughts, visions or whatever in your head, and the emotions that tag along. Huge hugs, and get your self worth back. You deserve, anyone for that matter deserves much more than this ( even if you don't recognize how inappropriate this is).
I have been reading through this, and feeling so god awful for you, but the outsiders looking in on a situation we are only seeing what is said is sometimes worth a thought. None of us ( I dont't know this) are marriage councilors, psychologists but women who know that their husbands are not asking, or looking at nude pics of family members.
Have to say that I am a very suspicious person by nature, and if I had a remote thought that something may be going on, a hidden nanny cam would be in the living room and set to tape when I retired for the night. If nothing is happening, then you proceed however you feel you need to, but if you find something then I hope you have enough respect for you and child that marriage would have to end.
Sorry this is a novel too, but I have been there done that and sometimes you need to see it happen before you think your intuition is way off.
Again huge huge hugs to you and hope for the best, and you can find you again.
do you feel lucky to have him or something. Why are you putting up with this. There were red flags BEFORE you got married. the whole pics of you and your sister. I cannot even imagine if my dh asked my sister to send him pics.. and if she obliged.. NO F'in way. but if you were okay with that in the past who is to say she and he aren't thinking "No big deal... she won't care if we have sex.. its just sex" The whole swinger thing I mean it sounds like he is a bit kinky which isn't for me. But whatever. I wonder if the swinger thing is even a shock to you...
And when you say you got legitamately sick and he got mad it made me think. Are you going along with all this to keep the peace but then had to play sick because you didn't want to go through with it?
I am sorry, I normally don't accuse but your story has holes in it. Naked pics of sister okay, swinging okay until you actually ahve to go to a club.
One other question, is there drinking or any other drugs involved? ecstacy or somethign that makes you super sexual? I had a friend who did that with her husband and she would say and do soem crazy kinky stuff with him. But then she woudl feel bad. Because she did that stuff with him he automatically thought they could push the envelope further.
Again this is all speculation but my thoughts are that you need to figure out what is okay with you in your relationship and let him know. Don't play along with things that offend you or upset you. But as a stranger on the internet I can be honest with you and say I woulnd't be the least bit surprised if they have hooked up. to what capacity who can say.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're "accusing" me of. Not actually being sick? It's not really relevant, but I was having IBS issues all day, so yeah, I didn't feel like risking going out that night. I would've gone with him if I hadn't been sick. I would've been uncomfortable, but I'd have checked it out because that's what he wanted to do.
We drink pretty regularly, but like 3-4 drinks on a weekend evening. There are zero drugs involved here. I really don't know what "holes" you're referring to in my story. Anything I've left out is likely due to attempting to maintain some semblance of privacy by not over sharing very specific details. I have answered all questions asked of me up until this point, if I'm not mistaken.
Quite possibly. He's told me that the idea of him and I both having sex with someone else in close proximity to each other turns him on. Which doesn't really have anything to do with voyeurism..
do you feel lucky to have him or something. Why are you putting up with this. There were red flags BEFORE you got married. the whole pics of you and your sister. I cannot even imagine if my dh asked my sister to send him pics.. and if she obliged.. NO F'in way. but if you were okay with that in the past who is to say she and he aren't thinking "No big deal... she won't care if we have sex.. its just sex" The whole swinger thing I mean it sounds like he is a bit kinky which isn't for me. But whatever. I wonder if the swinger thing is even a shock to you...
And when you say you got legitamately sick and he got mad it made me think. Are you going along with all this to keep the peace but then had to play sick because you didn't want to go through with it?
I am sorry, I normally don't accuse but your story has holes in it. Naked pics of sister okay, swinging okay until you actually ahve to go to a club.
One other question, is there drinking or any other drugs involved? ecstacy or somethign that makes you super sexual? I had a friend who did that with her husband and she would say and do soem crazy kinky stuff with him. But then she woudl feel bad. Because she did that stuff with him he automatically thought they could push the envelope further.
Again this is all speculation but my thoughts are that you need to figure out what is okay with you in your relationship and let him know. Don't play along with things that offend you or upset you. But as a stranger on the internet I can be honest with you and say I woulnd't be the least bit surprised if they have hooked up. to what capacity who can say.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're "accusing" me of. Not actually being sick? It's not really relevant, but I was having IBS issues all day, so yeah, I didn't feel like risking going out that night. I would've gone with him if I hadn't been sick. I would've been uncomfortable, but I'd have checked it out because that's what he wanted to do.
We drink pretty regularly, but like 3-4 drinks on a weekend evening. There are zero drugs involved here. I really don't know what "holes" you're referring to in my story. Anything I've left out is likely due to attempting to maintain some semblance of privacy by not over sharing very specific details. I have answered all questions asked of me up until this point, if I'm not mistaken.
Really no reason to get defensive. I was merely wondering if maybe you act on board with this guy and then chickened out but you say you didn't. It sounds like you feel like you are lucky to have him.
Believe me I think everyone has been in some relationship where we go along with things we dont' want to to keep the peace or make someone else happy. that is what I was getting at.
I think you are smart to try counseling. Good luck!
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're "accusing" me of. Not actually being sick? It's not really relevant, but I was having IBS issues all day, so yeah, I didn't feel like risking going out that night. I would've gone with him if I hadn't been sick. I would've been uncomfortable, but I'd have checked it out because that's what he wanted to do.
We drink pretty regularly, but like 3-4 drinks on a weekend evening. There are zero drugs involved here. I really don't know what "holes" you're referring to in my story. Anything I've left out is likely due to attempting to maintain some semblance of privacy by not over sharing very specific details. I have answered all questions asked of me up until this point, if I'm not mistaken.
Really no reason to get defensive. I was merely wondering if maybe you act on board with this guy and then chickened out but you say you didn't. It sounds like you feel like you are lucky to have him.
Believe me I think everyone has been in some relationship where we go along with things we dont' want to to keep the peace or make someone else happy. that is what I was getting at.
I think you are smart to try counseling. Good luck!
What? How exactly does she imply that she feels lucky to have him? I'm not following this line of thought Sloan. Enlighten?
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're "accusing" me of. Not actually being sick? It's not really relevant, but I was having IBS issues all day, so yeah, I didn't feel like risking going out that night. I would've gone with him if I hadn't been sick. I would've been uncomfortable, but I'd have checked it out because that's what he wanted to do.
We drink pretty regularly, but like 3-4 drinks on a weekend evening. There are zero drugs involved here. I really don't know what "holes" you're referring to in my story. Anything I've left out is likely due to attempting to maintain some semblance of privacy by not over sharing very specific details. I have answered all questions asked of me up until this point, if I'm not mistaken.
Really no reason to get defensive. I was merely wondering if maybe you act on board with this guy and then chickened out but you say you didn't. It sounds like you feel like you are lucky to have him.
Believe me I think everyone has been in some relationship where we go along with things we dont' want to to keep the peace or make someone else happy. that is what I was getting at.
I think you are smart to try counseling. Good luck!
There's just something about you referring to my husband as "this guy" that rubs me the wrong way. I have discussed far worse things today, and have no reason to make up reasons as to why I didn't go to the club that night. But thanks for that.