EDITED: heated discussion about John Stamos

[Melissa W.]

Jan 22, 2014 12:32:56 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:30:41 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

i can imagine how you can fuck without seeing someones face but i read A LOT of fanfic

but that doesn't necessarily make it rape, not seeing someone's face could be looking for an "erotic" experience. 

Assuming this woman wasn't slipped drugs or extremely inebriated, I'm not seeing how it is rape either. It sounds like she willing went to the room and had sex without even checking if she went to the right room. 

This is where I am at with it. Still a douche move on the part of JS and his friend. 

[wawa]

Jan 22, 2014 12:32:56 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:30:41 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

i can imagine how you can fuck without seeing someones face but i read A LOT of fanfic

but that doesn't necessarily make it rape, not seeing someone's face could be looking for an "erotic" experience. 

Assuming this woman wasn't slipped drugs or extremely inebriated, I'm not seeing how it is rape either. It sounds like she willing went to the room and had sex without even checking if she went to the right room. 

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

[pamela]

Jan 22, 2014 12:32:56 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:30:41 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

i can imagine how you can fuck without seeing someones face but i read A LOT of fanfic

but that doesn't necessarily make it rape, not seeing someone's face could be looking for an "erotic" experience. 

Assuming this woman wasn't slipped drugs or extremely inebriated, I'm not seeing how it is rape either. It sounds like she willing went to the room and had sex without even checking if she went to the right room. 

Agreed. You're wanting to have sex with a celeb and don't want to see their face? May be victim blaming, but as sept said, unless there is something the article isn't saying that she wasn't able to give consent, I don't think it's rape. And did the friend try to pretend to be JS?

[MrsAxilla]

I'm not sure whether I think it's rape, but even if it is, that doesn't mean Stamos was complicit in it. No doubt he ASSumed the chick would notice it wasn't him before she had sex.

[pamela]

Jan 22, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:32:56 GMT -5 @septimus said:

but that doesn't necessarily make it rape, not seeing someone's face could be looking for an "erotic" experience. 

Assuming this woman wasn't slipped drugs or extremely inebriated, I'm not seeing how it is rape either. It sounds like she willing went to the room and had sex without even checking if she went to the right room. 

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

But based on what we're reading, that's not what happened.

[Deleted]

Jan 22, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:32:56 GMT -5 @septimus said:

but that doesn't necessarily make it rape, not seeing someone's face could be looking for an "erotic" experience. 

Assuming this woman wasn't slipped drugs or extremely inebriated, I'm not seeing how it is rape either. It sounds like she willing went to the room and had sex without even checking if she went to the right room. 

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

that would be rape. She didn't consent to the friend using the key... but she walked into a room and had willing sex without talking or seeing the face? 

[Velar Fricative]

My thread about Greek yogurt, Full House and the Super Bowl turned into a thread about rape.

Never ever change, CEP.

[wawa]

Jan 22, 2014 12:38:17 GMT -5 pamela said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5 wawa said:

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

But based on what we're reading, that's not what happened.

But in terms of consent how is it different? since that is all that is relevant to determine if something is rape.

[Deleted]

Jan 22, 2014 12:43:57 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:41:01 GMT -5 @septimus said:

that would be rape. She didn't consent to the friend using the key... but she walked into a room and had willing sex without talking or seeing the face? 

there are so many nuances here that fall just shy of slut shaming and victim blaming. (YES I FUCKING SAID IT!!)

she consented to sex with JS. she was tricked into having sex with someone not JS. that is rape.

this is just like the scene that @immamalcomx posted in the movie thread about Revenge of the Nerds. rape, rape, rape, rapey, rape rape

Is she now claiming to be a victim? 

Where does personal responsibility come into play? 

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2014 20:17:29 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

Jan 21, 2014 20:14:19 GMT -5 gpw said:

that made cornbread come out my nose.  

Just to be clear...the above occurred between "cut it out" and the events described in JLP. Just thought I'd leave this here. 

Here I was hoping this could go into a 'two beavers are better than one' direction....

[wawa]

Jan 22, 2014 12:41:01 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5 wawa said:

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

that would be rape. She didn't consent to the friend using the key... but she walked into a room and had willing sex without talking or seeing the face? 

Ahhh....I see. If she'd have been a good girl who wanted to have a deep conversation and gaze into his eyes as they made love this never would have happened. But since she was a dirty whorebag who wanted it doggy style in the dark with no talking she deserves whatever she got. I get it now.

[Melissa W.]

I'm not slut shaming her at all. I get wanting to have sex with a celebrity. I don't get walking into a dark hotel room, getting into bed with someone, having sex with them and not having a fucking clue who it is.

[Melissa W.]

Oh for fuck sake.

[msmerymac]

Jan 22, 2014 12:41:01 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5 wawa said:

So if it was the other way around? She gave her key to js, was was waiting in the dark (maybe she was shy about being naked.) and random other dude came in and dfucked her? How could that NOT be rape?

that would be rape. She didn't consent to the friend using the key... but she walked into a room and had willing sex without talking or seeing the face? 

I don't think it's that hard to picture the friend playing some kind of "game" where the lights were off and they never faced each other. 

[wawa]

Jan 22, 2014 12:50:28 GMT -5 Melissa W. said:

I'm not slut shaming her at all. I get wanting to have sex with a celebrity. I don't get walking into a dark hotel room, getting into bed with someone, having sex with them and not having a fucking clue who it is.

Its not like she picked a door at random. Js gave her the key with the clear understanding that it was HIS room. the whole point of the story is that they tricked a woman into having sex with somebody she DID NOT WANT TO FUCK. That's rape.

[msmerymac]

However, this does bring up a good question, in terms of whether or not she would be able to bring a case against the friend for rape if she found out about it, depending on the state. I don't feel like doing the research, but I'm betting some state laws are a bit gray about this kind of thing, too.

[Velar Fricative]

A guy gives me his hotel room key because he wants to have sex and I consent to that, then I'm going to assume it's him in there. Not asking for proper identification before getting started doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

[Melissa W.]

Proper id? I'm not talking about carding someone.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 22, 2014 12:58:15 GMT -5 Melissa W. said:

Proper id? I'm not talking about carding someone.

I'm being TIC.

What if this other guy sounded just like Uncle Jesse? They probably weren't silent. It wouldn't dawn on me to turn on a light just to make sure it's really him.

[ttt]

I think what they did was incredibly shitty, but I don't think it's slut shaming to say that you should maybe at least glimpse at the person you're about to have sex with beforehand.

[ttt]

And what's the point of having sex with a hot celebrity if you can't even see him?

[MrsAxilla]

Jan 22, 2014 12:59:20 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Jan 22, 2014 12:58:15 GMT -5 Melissa W. said:

Proper id? I'm not talking about carding someone.

what do you think she should have done?

ETA: to make sure it was JS?

Looked at his face?

[Melissa W.]

I can't see how you get from the door to the bed without ever realizing that the person you are having sex with isn't the person you thought. No matter what position you chose, you are up close and personal. It must have been pitch black. Maybe I need to read more fanfic or romance novels.

[ttt]

Jan 22, 2014 13:13:46 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Jan 22, 2014 13:12:57 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Looked at his face?

What is she didn't want to? i didn't know looking at someones face was a requirement for sex

Honestly, if you are going to refuse to look at the person you're about to have sex with, and it is a total stranger (i.e. not your boyfriend/husband/trusted FWB), then I think you are at least partially to blame for the outcome.

[ttt]

Here's another question/scenario: what if she went to the wrong room? The guy inside is just hanging out, this woman comes into his room, shielding her eyes, saying "ooh I want you, fuck me now! But I don't want to look at you! Just do it!" and taking her clothes off, is he wrong to have sex with her? Is that rape? 

[ttt]

By the way, I'm leaving to run some errands and I fully expect this thread to be at least 6 pages by the time I get back.

[Velar Fricative]

See, I know in the court of public opinion, there is a lot of grey re: what constitutes rape. But for me, this is black-and-white. The woman consented to sex, but she did not consent to sex with JS's friend. Therefore, rape.

[MrsAxilla]

Jan 22, 2014 13:13:46 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Jan 22, 2014 13:12:57 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Looked at his face?

What is she didn't want to? i didn't know looking at someones face was a requirement for sex

You can't properly consent to sex if you don't know who you're having sex with (which is clearly the whole point here). Unless the dude insisted the light be off so she couldn't see him on purpose, and didn't speak so she wouldn't recognize the voice, I don't think it's rape.  Presumably he thought she'd notice he wasn't Stamos.

[ttt]

So wait, how do we know she didn't figure out it wasn't him but just had sex with him anyway?

[msmerymac]

Jan 22, 2014 13:19:42 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Jan 22, 2014 13:13:46 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

What is she didn't want to? i didn't know looking at someones face was a requirement for sex

You can't properly consent to sex if you don't know who you're having sex with (which is clearly the whole point here). Unless the dude insisted the light be off so she couldn't see him on purpose, and didn't speak so she wouldn't recognize the voice, I don't think it's rape.  Presumably he thought she'd notice he wasn't Stamos.

See, I think the opposite. That they set it up so the friend could get away with having sex with her, but the only way he could do that was to fully convince her she was having sex with JS.