Because Republican candidates are so dangerous these days, we really, really need strong alternatives to the R's, Dem and 3rd party (pipe dream!). And exactly what we DON'T need is for the D's to start eating their own right about now and fracturing the way the R's did. So thanks for catalyzing that process, Bernie campaign.
I really think he needs to have a seat. I think he's going to hand 2016 to a Republican.
First- if you leave your door unlocked does that make it okay for someone to just walk in and rummage through your stuff? No. Sanders campaign new they weren't supposed to be able to access that info and spent forty minutes rooting around in it and then claim they were TOTALLY just about to report the breach.
Second- this is hours of work and data gathered by Hillary's team. If you leave your homework on your desk, is it okay for someone to just copy it rather than do the work themselves?
I think this is more along the lines of a teacher handing back an assignment to the wrong student. Wrong student doesn't make a copy, but has seen it. This is a mistake by NGP VAN.
The "student" let multiple other people see it and waved it around gleefully. The student's parents (Bernie) then sued the school.
First- if you leave your door unlocked does that make it okay for someone to just walk in and rummage through your stuff? No. Sanders campaign new they weren't supposed to be able to access that info and spent forty minutes rooting around in it and then claim they were TOTALLY just about to report the breach.
Second- this is hours of work and data gathered by Hillary's team. If you leave your homework on your desk, is it okay for someone to just copy it rather than do the work themselves?
I think this is more along the lines of a teacher handing back an assignment to the wrong student. Wrong student doesn't make a copy, but has seen it. This is a mistake by NGP VAN.
No. The NGP didn't send sanders campaign this info. They purposefully went and looked for it and dug around. And had other people dig around.
No, Sander's campaign is in the wrong here. I don't think that's really disputable. They looked at and downloaded information that didn't belong to them.
First- if you leave your door unlocked does that make it okay for someone to just walk in and rummage through your stuff? No. Sanders campaign new they weren't supposed to be able to access that info and spent forty minutes rooting around in it and then claim they were TOTALLY just about to report the breach.
Second- this is hours of work and data gathered by Hillary's team. If you leave your homework on your desk, is it okay for someone to just copy it rather than do the work themselves?
I think this is more along the lines of a teacher handing back an assignment to the wrong student. Wrong student doesn't make a copy, but has seen it. This is a mistake by NGP VAN.
No it's more like you leaving your window open and someone goes through it while you are away and takes your things.
I think this is more along the lines of a teacher handing back an assignment to the wrong student. Wrong student doesn't make a copy, but has seen it. This is a mistake by NGP VAN.
No. The NGP didn't send sanders campaign this info. They purposefully went and looked for it and dug around. And had other people dig around.
So they had staffers just waiting for the moment the firewall to go down?
First- if you leave your door unlocked does that make it okay for someone to just walk in and rummage through your stuff? No. Sanders campaign new they weren't supposed to be able to access that info and spent forty minutes rooting around in it and then claim they were TOTALLY just about to report the breach.
Second- this is hours of work and data gathered by Hillary's team. If you leave your homework on your desk, is it okay for someone to just copy it rather than do the work themselves?
I think this is more along the lines of a teacher handing back an assignment to the wrong student. Wrong student doesn't make a copy, but has seen it. This is a mistake by NGP VAN.
You realize that after the Director of Data discovered the breach, he created new accounts for several staffers access, and four people spent 40 minutes running very targeted searches to get information that reflects millions of dollars of work in not just collecting data but applying advanced analytical methodologies in that data. The Sanders campaign easily obtained the most valuable data in that database. Their dicks didn't fall into a sleeping woman, they saw an opening and went on a looting spree.
Reasonable minds can disagree on what the appropriate punishment is, but this was no accident.
No. The NGP didn't send sanders campaign this info. They purposefully went and looked for it and dug around. And had other people dig around.
So they had staffers just waiting for the moment the firewall to go down?
Here's how it works. DNC has a voter database that the campaigns subscribe to. The campaigns can add their own secret notes to the individual voter files. The data director probably stumbled on HRC's notes when looking at a voter file, and realized the wall was down.
Rather than call the company, he created new accounts so staffers could run targeted searches on the newly available data.
Post by jojoandleo on Dec 19, 2015 11:31:01 GMT -5
Alright, I'm convinced, Saint Sanders campaign did nothing wrong. The DNc thrust this information into their hands and forced them to look at it. They totally did nothing wrong and it's all a Hillary conspiracy anyway.
Post by irishbride2 on Dec 19, 2015 11:32:53 GMT -5
Bunny, it's like me accidentally leaving my classroom unlocked during lunch, and a student discovers it. They then go grab a few friends and riffle through my papers to find Other students test grades....then their parents sue me for leaving the door unlocked and not giving them the test grades for other students in the first place.
Post by NewOrleans on Dec 19, 2015 11:43:30 GMT -5
For the record, I expect shade from politicians. I guess you have to find the shade you can live with. For some of you, this is shade you can live with. For instance, I could live with HRC's email business. I would, however, appreciate it if you would acknowledge the wrongness of what transpired here (like I think HRC's email thing was bone-headed and strange and I scowl at it and at her for putting her <us> in the position to be scrutinized and doubted).
For the record, I expect shade from politicians. I guess you have to find the shade you can live with. For some of you, this is shade you can live with. For instance, I could live with HRC's email business. I would, however, appreciate it if you would acknowledge the wrongness of what transpired here (like I think HRC's email thing was bone-headed and strange and I scowl at it and at her for putting her <us> in the position to be scrutinized and doubted).
Sure, in like an objective sense, it's not great that some staffer ran this search.
But it's like not even close to the email issue. HRC did that herself, and willfully.
For the record, I expect shade from politicians. I guess you have to find the shade you can live with. For some of you, this is shade you can live with. For instance, I could live with HRC's email business. I would, however, appreciate it if you would acknowledge the wrongness of what transpired here (like I think HRC's email thing was bone-headed and strange and I scowl at it and at her for putting her <us> in the position to be scrutinized and doubted).
Sure, in like an objective sense, it's not great that some staffer ran this search.
But it's like not even close to the email issue. HRC did that herself, and willfully.
Post by NewOrleans on Dec 19, 2015 11:57:46 GMT -5
And as for the guy getting fired.... Good for them? The damage is done. They have the info they wanted. And the other little moles weren't fired. And Father Bernie has everything he wants. He's as dirty as everyone else.
For the record, I expect shade from politicians. I guess you have to find the shade you can live with. For some of you, this is shade you can live with. For instance, I could live with HRC's email business. I would, however, appreciate it if you would acknowledge the wrongness of what transpired here (like I think HRC's email thing was bone-headed and strange and I scowl at it and at her for putting her <us> in the position to be scrutinized and doubted).
Sure, in like an objective sense, it's not great that some staffer ran this search.
But it's like not even close to the email issue. HRC did that herself, and willfully.
It's not just some staffer. It was his deputy national data officer who instructed multiple staffers to steal the data. This was an executive level decision to plunder.
In any event, you missed voodoo's point. She wasn't trying to equate this to the email server or say that you should switch to HRC. She's just saying, "acknowledge the damn sketchiness instead of ignoring facts and portraying it in a biased way." That's all. I mean, if four HRC staffers were presented with an opportunity to steal millions of dollars of investments made by the Sanders campaign and then actually did it, what would you expect her punishment to be?
ESF , I don't really understand why it's proprietary information anyway. Like I said initially, I would be fine with HRC's campaign getting access to information about me being a Bernie supporter. Since she's still more likely to be the candidate, she should figure out why people like me don't support her fully and address it.
Well I mean, if you're good with having your info viewed by people you did not authorize, then those folks on HRC's list should be ok with it too.
ESF, I don't really understand why it's proprietary information anyway. Like I said initially, I would be fine with HRC's campaign getting access to information about me being a Bernie supporter. Since she's still more likely to be the candidate, she should figure out why people like me don't support her fully and address it.
It's HRCs data that she collected. I don't understand why this is hard to understand,
Post by jojoandleo on Dec 19, 2015 12:20:22 GMT -5
And I would like to point out, I shrugged at this at first. It's the insistence by Bernie supporters that his campaign did nothing wrong and is an innocent victim that has made me fight about this. Acknowledge the shade and this would have not been the big deal it is now. And the polls now where 80% of Betnie supporters now won't vote for ANYONE but Bernie? Do they not know this election is not just about the presidency? It's also about the Supreme Court. You want to hand those seats to conservative judges chomping at the bit to overturn Rowe v wade?
ESF, I don't really understand why it's proprietary information anyway. Like I said initially, I would be fine with HRC's campaign getting access to information about me being a Bernie supporter. Since she's still more likely to be the candidate, she should figure out why people like me don't support her fully and address it.
It's not so much that you liking Bernie or being asked questions about your views on education are "secret", it's that the data set as a whole is proprietary because of the work and investment that went into building it.
Campaigns - all of them - invest heavily in data and survey experts. These people design surveys that phone bankers use when they call people in the DNC database. The experts then develop a proprietary scoring system. They analyze responses to score people based in their level of enthusiasm for a candidate, likelihood of voting, how they respond to certain issues, among other things. Voters then are scored. The data is used for lots of stuff. If The campaign knows someone has top level support, they don't get more calls or mailers on issues, but will get info encouraging them to vote. Low level support indicates they could flip, so more effort will be spent convincing them. The info can also be used to determine what issues are most important to people...say for example if large swaths of people on the fence care more about gun control than minimum wage, the campaign can better target them.
Now that Bernie has this information, which reflects millions of dollars in investments as well as months of phone bank work, his staffers can sort through it, find all the people on the fence about Hillary, and target them to poach. They can exclude the people with high level support for HRC since it will be a wasted effort. All sorts of other strategic decisions can be made with this data that took months and millions of dollars to compile. It's freeloading and theft, plain and simple.
There is no way to spin this in Bernie's favor. Ask yourself how you'd feel if the Rubio campaign got in 40 minutes up information that took months and millions to acquire. Ask yourself how you'd feel if you spent dozens of hours phone banking and made donations to a campaign to fund this kind of work, only for it to be taken and used against your candidate.
ESF, I don't really understand why it's proprietary information anyway. Like I said initially, I would be fine with HRC's campaign getting access to information about me being a Bernie supporter. Since she's still more likely to be the candidate, she should figure out why people like me don't support her fully and address it.
Let's stop acting like Bernie was looking for Joe Voters info. They were looking for money and weak links. This wasn't about reaching out to Hillary's average voter and trying to appeal to them, it was about finding things they could exploit, with information that wasn't theirs.
What do you want me to do? Say I'm voting for Hillary now? No, it's not on the up and up, but I'm still not super bothered by it. It wasn't Bernie Sanders' job to keep this info private, and there's no evidence it's something he did or knew about. He's an old man with wild hair. There's really no evidence he's aware computers exist at all.
Nobody thinks Bernie himself was running data searches. But it's his campaign and his top people acted shady. Instead of acting accordingly because his campaign is "different," he went out hollering about the DNC like Grandpa Simpson.
Post by sugarglider on Dec 19, 2015 12:40:05 GMT -5
I can't help but think of this in terms of my own job. If I'm going through documents produced by the other side in litigation and I discover they inadvertently sent me privileged documents, I might flip through identify the start and end point to report it back to the other side (as is my obligation), but it would be a serious ethical violation if I then created targeted searches to determine the other side's strategy with my case.
I at first thought some staffers had stumbled upon a weakness in the system and independently poked around a little to see how far it went. Wrong, sure, but not worthy of a scandal. However, it sounds like they deliberately mined for data and were assigned to do so by their boss. Glad to be reminded there are no saints in politics.