I really hate that people keep coming in here and saying, in effect, "well, yeah it sucks that black people are dying, but climate change affects millions of people!"
If a racist asshole who was passionate about climate change came on board, I still wouldn't vote for his racist ass because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a presidential candidate who says, "yay vegsnism, boo fossil fuels!" to fix what we've broken, but that same person who believes brown-skinned people don't matter could make things so, so much worse than they are for millions of already disenfranchised people.
And the idea that democrats can't be racist - lolololololol. Fuck, yeah, they are. Racists come in a lot of shapes and sizes and they are definitely not limited to the conservative party. Please remember racism is NOT just about using the n-word and chanting at a Trump rally.
Lady Susan has made it abundantly clear in the past she is willing to excuse racism.
Re: your last sentence. I mean, really. Liberals are often about tolerance as long as folks stay out of their neighborhoods.
I'm aware there are racists everywhere. I just feel like its less tolerated on the left. I can't (and don't want to! ) imagine someone making it far being vocally racist. (Though I've been given some examples of the opposite above, so clearly this was a bit niave)
I feel like BLM had become another party line issue. Dems support it, Reps claim it's an anti-police movement.
But not all democrats support the BLM movement.
This board gives us skewed idea of what both parties are like. We have a lot of wise, willing to be educated people here, which is why it's so hard to fathom why any Republican would support Trump or how any Democrat could be blatantly racist.
In reality, though, racism is both outwardly horrifying and quietly widespread. I know many, many Democrats who would argue that they aren't racist, but who feel that the BLM movement should not be loud in their protests or inconvenience anyone in any way.
I'm aware there are racists everywhere. I just feel like its less tolerated on the left. I can't (and don't want to! ) imagine someone making it far being vocally racist. (Though I've been given some examples of the opposite above, so clearly this was a bit niave)
I feel like BLM had become another party line issue. Dems support it, Reps claim it's an anti-police movement.
It's tolerated on the left. Otherwise Mass Incarceration would have been addressed forever ago. Oh and those Union folk up North are racist as fuck They case their votes for Obama but they are calling me a n-word behind my back, trust.
I really hate that people keep coming in here and saying, in effect, "well, yeah it sucks that black people are dying, but climate change affects millions of people!"
If a racist asshole who was passionate about climate change came on board, I still wouldn't vote for his racist ass because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a presidential candidate who says, "yay vegsnism, boo fossil fuels!" to fix what we've broken, but that same person who believes brown-skinned people don't matter could make things so, so much worse than they are for millions of already disenfranchised people.
And the idea that democrats can't be racist - lolololololol. Fuck, yeah, they are. Racists come in a lot of shapes and sizes and they are definitely not limited to the conservative party. Please remember racism is NOT just about using the n-word and chanting at a Trump rally.
Lady Susan has made it abundantly clear in the past she is willing to excuse racism.
Re: your last sentence. I mean, really. Liberals are often about tolerance as long as folks stay out of their neighborhoods.
That was a lot to absorb and digest. I never feel like I have anything to contribute to these discussions and I have a lot to learn, so that is why I stay quiet. With all the things hoing on in my 'real' life plus the bright women on this board, I feel like my critical thinking and writing skills are just broken sometimes. But I'd be very interested in the book discussion if there is one.
I'll never forget being at an event downtown where I was the only non-lib of my colleagues and a homeless black man hung out where we were setting up. He was friendly and talkative, and even helped us move some stuff. But he was absolutely treated as less by the liberals who, from the safety of a desk in a mostly white office, were all about lip service but didn't like being where they actually had to interact with the people they professed to be helping. So yeah, white privilege knows no party.
Well I'm not sure if this specifically is what iammalcolmx meant, but for example, H has an uncle who did heavy construction for decades and was unionized. Always voted Dem.
He also has confederate flags everywhere and used to post FB videos mocking Obama and Muslims everywhere (using slurs etc). I have never heard him say the N word but he was probably told not to say it around me.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Dec 24, 2015 8:45:31 GMT -5
I also think there are huge segments of the population who don't want to or can't think critically about the information they receive and aren't interested in challenging their belief systems.
For instance, my mom is a liberal. But she hates talking about politics and current events. Because my stepdad is staunchly conservative and racist and she lives in an area where a lot of retired white people live, she's exposed to information on one side of the spectrum. Because she doesn't like to discuss issues and doesn't investigate stuff to be sure of its validity, she internalizes a lot of bullshit things. During her most recent visit, I had to show her that Michelle Obama did not refuse to put her hand on her heart during the pledge and that Al Sharpton did not get people to chant "kill the cops." And this is a highly educated woman who worked at very high levels in the US government in Washington DC for over 30 years.
I say this to illustrate how even someone who is smart and has been exposed to people of different backgrounds might still hold some racist beliefs. My mom has never used the n-word, has a best friend who is black, and abhors the Confederate flag, but she absolutely has some less obvious bigotry that she doesn't challenge because she doesn't choose to. I try to be engage her in discussions so she is, at the least, hearing things from a different perspective than she's used to, but it's an uphill battle.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 24, 2015 8:54:35 GMT -5
Jesus, are we gonna have someone chime in every few pages now about climate change being more important? Read the damn thread before posting, folks. Or, if you've read it, check yourself.
First, I doubt most people on this board deny climate change. The disagreement lies on which solutions to take. So stop coming in here and telling us about Bangladesh. I mean, we would probably like to read about Bangladesh's climate change concerns on this board but NOT IN THIS THREAD.
Second, you know who's pro-union with a very very strong union? The NYPD. So yeah, union workers who vote Dem can absolutely be racist. And it's not just Republicans who, when a black family moves into their neighborhood, puts their house up for sale. And it's not just Republicans who use code words like "good schools" when really meaning that the school had mostly white kids. Liberals love it when black people become successful, so long as they do it over there on the other side of the tracks (which we've discussed a lot is very problematic and doesn't allow for sustainable success for the black community, however you choose to define success).
I quit, but not before I give props to NewOrleans for the "Liberals are often about tolerance as long as folks stay out of their neighborhoods" Because amotherfuckingmen.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
Those that support a first priority environmentalist who is also a racist should really take a moment and stop and think about what harm a racist environmentalist could do to those races he or she does not prefer in the name of "saving the ice caps." Think about it.
I'm going to drop controversial shit and run. I have some numbers and thoughts on race and climate change:
There are about 6000 black homicides in the US each year. To put that into context, that means that someone's loved one is killed every 1.5 hours. Around the clock. All year round. Black victimization rates are 2 - 6 times higher than white victimization rates. And it looks like rates have held pretty steady since 2000 so don't get all hopeful or anything that the US is in a hurry to become not-racist anytime soon.
But climate change could also potentially kill people. Potentially vast numbers of people. For example, about half of the population of Bangladesh live on the river delta which is basically at sea level. The population of Bangladesh is 150 million so that would be a shit-ton of refugees. Humanity can't even pull its head of of its ass to deal with 5 million refugees from Syria humanely. If 99% of Bangladeshis survived the displacement and chaos that would be 1.5 million deaths. So climate change is potentially also a matter of life and death for many people.
So what exactly do you think elected officials in the US are going to do that will single handedly save Bangladesh? That would require buy-in from far more than our country and you can't control that. However you sure as hell can do something to honor the rights of black Americans in.this.country to not lose their lives over senseless violence. But it doesn't impact you right so...
This right here is why stuff is so fucked up. We can't even rank priority over people on another continent that we can't directly influence anyway.
Those that support a first priority environmentalist who is also a racist should really take a moment and stop and think about what harm a racist environmentalist could do to those races he or she does not prefer in the name of "saving the ice caps." Think about it.
I'm pretty damn sure that a racist environmentalist wouldn't be terribly interested in helping the brown, Muslim people of Bangladesh.
Those that support a first priority environmentalist who is also a racist should really take a moment and stop and think about what harm a racist environmentalist could do to those races he or she does not prefer in the name of "saving the ice caps." Think about it.
I'm pretty damn sure that a racist environmentalist wouldn't be terribly interested in helping the brown, Muslim people of Bangladesh.
Exactly and could do so much harm. Humanity should fear the "racist environmentalist" but it doesn't surprise me to read that some white people are the ones who don't see this. They would be most likely the least to suffer under such a regime.
That is a really good point. And it's an easy trap to fall into when you live white. We want change, but we don't want to be uncomfortable. I think that's where I fell when the BLM movement started. But then things I read here made me very ashamed of having ever felt that way.
While I'd like this to be true, a lot of people that "want change" only want change that a)does not affect them in any way, and b)requires no sacrifice or effort for them.
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE BACK TO THIS ENVIRONMENT > PEOPLE OF COLOR SHIT AGAIN IN THIS THREAD?!! NOT EVEN A NEW THREAD THIS SAME DAMN THREAD. WHAT IN THE SIMPLE ASS HELL?!
I woke up at 5am and couldn't get back to sleep. And then I saw this shit and thought surely I was hallucinating from the sleep deprivation. Because that was the only logical explanation for that post.
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE BACK TO THIS ENVIRONMENT > PEOPLE OF COLOR SHIT AGAIN IN THIS THREAD?!! NOT EVEN A NEW THREAD THIS SAME DAMN THREAD. WHAT IN THE SIMPLE ASS HELL?!
I don't see how someone reads the entire thread and repeats the same offensive point as if that's the time everyone else will agree.
Post by penguingrrl on Dec 24, 2015 10:03:47 GMT -5
I'm LOLing at the "it's hard to be a racist Dem" bullshit. The candidate's wife on the campaign I worked on was racist as fuck. It was alarming! Our finance manager was a Jewish woman and was talking about a Saudi man she dated for a long time (it came up in context in a conversation; I think in discussing traveling there to meet his family) and the wife was all "were your parents okay with you dating a Muslim?" She also went in and on about how she "lost" her niece who married a Muslim man because now he's controlling her and won't let her have a phone or anything. Pretty sure it was actually that the niece figured out Wife was racist against her husband and was making excuses for why she couldn't get together.
It was really eye opening to see blatant racism from not just a dem but from someone involved enough that her husband was running for office. So yeah, GTFO with the notion that libs/Dems can't be racist. They may not be burning crosses openly in their yards, but it's still prevalent.
I'm going to drop controversial shit and run. I have some numbers and thoughts on race and climate change:
There are about 6000 black homicides in the US each year. To put that into context, that means that someone's loved one is killed every 1.5 hours. Around the clock. All year round. Black victimization rates are 2 - 6 times higher than white victimization rates. And it looks like rates have held pretty steady since 2000 so don't get all hopeful or anything that the US is in a hurry to become not-racist anytime soon.
But climate change could also potentially kill people. Potentially vast numbers of people. For example, about half of the population of Bangladesh live on the river delta which is basically at sea level. The population of Bangladesh is 150 million so that would be a shit-ton of refugees. Humanity can't even pull its head of of its ass to deal with 5 million refugees from Syria humanely. If 99% of Bangladeshis survived the displacement and chaos that would be 1.5 million deaths. So climate change is potentially also a matter of life and death for many people.
Let me help you and everyone else, no one is saying that climate change isn't important. I agree that something must be done; however, I am flat out appalled that anyone would tell me that racial injustice needs to take a Montgomery Bus Boycott Backseat to climate change.
As I said upthread, every single day I choose to care about multiple issues. It is not a foreign concept to care about multiple issues equally. They are not mutually exclusive.
Why this thread blew up was because folks said they would choose climate change over a racist muthafucking candidate.
Now, I've said this nicely as I can for right now. But, LAWD JESUS Don't come back in here with this mess.
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE BACK TO THIS ENVIRONMENT > PEOPLE OF COLOR SHIT AGAIN IN THIS THREAD?!! NOT EVEN A NEW THREAD THIS SAME DAMN THREAD. WHAT IN THE SIMPLE ASS HELL?!
I don't see how someone reads the entire thread and repeats the same offensive point as if that's the time everyone else will agree.
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE BACK TO THIS ENVIRONMENT > PEOPLE OF COLOR SHIT AGAIN IN THIS THREAD?!! NOT EVEN A NEW THREAD THIS SAME DAMN THREAD. WHAT IN THE SIMPLE ASS HELL?!
I don't see how someone reads the entire thread and repeats the same offensive point as if that's the time everyone else will agree.
Right? "I see the light. I was iffy about the ice caps example being more important than BLM, but Bangladesh has convinced me." Get the fuck out with Bangladesh. You want to talk about sea level? Then let's talk about the lower wards of NOLA inhabited by black people who will be disproportionately affected when that shit happens while white flight in the Garden District is mowing their lawns.
I don't see how someone reads the entire thread and repeats the same offensive point as if that's the time everyone else will agree.
Right? "I see the light. I was iffy about the ice caps example being more important than BLM, but Bangladesh has convinced me." Get the fuck out with Bangladesh. You want to talk about sea level? Then let's talk about the lower wards of NOLA inhabited by black people who will be disproportionately affected when that shit happens while white flight in the Garden District is mowing their lawns.
Oh look, yes that is the perfect combination of climate change and institutional racism!
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE BACK TO THIS ENVIRONMENT > PEOPLE OF COLOR SHIT AGAIN IN THIS THREAD?!! NOT EVEN A NEW THREAD THIS SAME DAMN THREAD. WHAT IN THE SIMPLE ASS HELL?!
See, now y'all gonna make FIF break her keyboard too.
I'm going to need you both to relax. I'm over here in my pajamas, drinking my chamomile tea and watching the property brothers work on this damn ranch for the 96th time while Skyping to my boss from my iPad and leading her to believe I'm at my desk (because WHY did she skype me at 9:30 with the passive aggressive, "Good morning...if you're here..." ). Point being, how can you be angry at people who are telling you that your life and the lives of your loved ones is not a priority to them? What exactly is there to be angry about? You can't make people value or respect you. Update your respective spreadsheets, don't spit on them if they were on fire and put your tea kettle on. Merry Christmas Eve !
I'm going to need you both to relax. I'm over here in my pajamas, drinking my chamomile tea and watching the property brothers work on this damn ranch for the 96th time while Skyping to my boss from my iPad and leading her to believe I'm at my desk (because WHY did she skype me at 9:30 with the passive aggressive, "Good morning...if you're here..." ). Point being, how can you be angry at people who are telling you that your life and the lives of your loved ones is not a priority to them? What exactly is there to be angry about? You can't make people value or respect you. Update your respective spreadsheets, don't spit on them if they were on fire and put your tea kettle on. Merry Christmas Eve !
Im not even mad about that shit I am just trying to understand (which is where MY stupid kicks in) how anybody who read this thread in its entirety thought "you know what I need to do? I need to post about how climate change is more important than BLM on page 17."
I just assume that those posters are trying to send a message and guess what? I have received it. Understood, loud and clear. Instead of being pissed (like I was when I first began this thread), I am just going to be glad that the majority of us are all on the same page and pay dust to the small minority among us who are not. When your response to BLM is Bangladesh, I can't even lol. It's not even worth it!
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
Im not even mad about that shit I am just trying to understand (which is where MY stupid kicks in) how anybody who read this thread in its entirety thought "you know what I need to do? I need to post about how climate change is more important than BLM on page 17."
I just assume that those posters are trying to send a message and guess what? I have received it. Understood, loud and clear. Instead of being pissed (like I was when I first began this thread), I am just going to be glad that the majority of us are all on the same page and pay dust to the small minority among us who are not. When your response to BLM is Bangladesh, I can't even lol. It's not even worth it!
Santa Claus is over Bangladesh right now, per Norad. I swear I heard that on the radio and almost spewed my coffee.