As a social liberal, I have a hard time understanding how a woman can vote for someone prolife.
However, there is no way on earth that I could respect in any way someone that would vote for a racist.
If climate issues got so out of control that people would inevitably die, who do you think the first people that racist would be sending to the sinking lands would be? Hint: not the white people.
I'm going to drop controversial shit and run. I have some numbers and thoughts on race and climate change:
There are about 6000 black homicides in the US each year. To put that into context, that means that someone's loved one is killed every 1.5 hours. Around the clock. All year round. Black victimization rates are 2 - 6 times higher than white victimization rates. And it looks like rates have held pretty steady since 2000 so don't get all hopeful or anything that the US is in a hurry to become not-racist anytime soon.
But climate change could also potentially kill people. Potentially vast numbers of people. For example, about half of the population of Bangladesh live on the river delta which is basically at sea level. The population of Bangladesh is 150 million so that would be a shit-ton of refugees. Humanity can't even pull its head of of its ass to deal with 5 million refugees from Syria humanely. If 99% of Bangladeshis survived the displacement and chaos that would be 1.5 million deaths. So climate change is potentially also a matter of life and death for many people.
I'm really not sure that I can form a completely coherent reply bc I'm all in my feelings about my mom today...however, I'd really like to know how nice it must be to live in your head. Like, do you really think I should give a flying fuck about Bangladesh when I have to have "the talk" at my kids and gkid about the potential interactions they may have with law enforcement?! Everything that everyone said in this post and yet you still say this shit?!
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
I was made aware of this thread because of MMM. Regarding racist democrats, I live in an affluent, educated, and very liberal area. Racism is thought of as being something that uneducated conservatives have a monopoly on. Aside, from the fact that institutional racism would not exist without people in power propagating it, it's so ridiculously false even amongst the "lay people" in my area. For example, most of my peers have no problem with amnesty for undocumented Latino immigrants and think it's purely an issue of racism that's driving anti-immigration sentiment. Forget that they don't compete for similar jobs since 1) many undocumented immigrants don't have the same educational background and 2) even if they did, it's often not transferable esp. if you can't pass employment eligibility verification. But holy shit, will these people talk about Indians taking away tech jobs because they will work like dogs. I've had too many really uncomfortable conversations there. In Seattle, the Central District has historically been the center of the black community. It's close to downtown and much cheaper than the surrounding area, so of course it's being gentrified, which :shrug:. The local newspaper ran an article on Seattle becoming the next Vancouver due to Chinese investors buying property here that they may or may not intend to actually live on. It definitely matters who's being priced out of home ownership. I could go on and on, like the jokes people think are ok to tell so long as they vote for the person with a D by his/her name. I mean, listen to the things Piers Morgan or Bill Maher say.
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
LOL. Way to clear things up. You can't be this stupid. Is that even possible?
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
It is a good thing it is Christmas because you need Jesus post-haste.
I'm sorry that I suggested that black lives don't matter especially on Christmas Eve/Christmas. I will come back later and read but I don't want to leave that apology unsaid.
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
Gfy. You are an idiot. Not once have you really brought anything of substance, mostly people just have to school your dumb ass.
Go read a book.
Not just any book; she has an assignment - Why We Can't Wait by Dr. King.
Because that's what's happening here. It's the SAME argument. You want us to sit around and not make valid commentary because climate change will affect our grandchildren. What grandchildren? Hell, Sandra Bland was 28. There are no grandchildren for her because she is GOT DAYUM MUTHAFUCKING DEAD.
Stop it. Stop these bullshit ass explanations of why these are more important. Stop it. And this is the last time I type out nice sentences. From henceforth on, the next muthafucka that comes in this thread with this drivel is getting cussed clean the fuck out.
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
I feel the need to tell you to shut the fuck up and have all the seats. You ain't read a single solitary word in this thread to bring your ass back in here with this foolishness. You concur? You don't concur with anything f you keep trying to explain why I should be placing the needs of my community for equal treatment on the back burner.
You can care about both things, but to tell me a racist is better because they believe in LED lighting and alternative fuel sources is a slap in the face. I'm tired of benevolent folks like you trying to tell me what is best for me. It's better for ME to worry about climate change than to worry if some extra cops drag me out of my car and shoot me.
I'm sorry that I suggested that black lives don't matter especially on Christmas Eve/Christmas. I will come back later and read but I don't want to leave that apology unsaid.
NAWL. DON'T YOU SAY SHIT ELSE.
You've made it clear that your reading comprehension skills are lacking. we don't dispute the importance of climate change policies. We dispute the fact that some folks would take a fucking racist yet tree hugging politician as a viable candidate.
That speaks volumes to how some perceive policies that impact folks who don't look like them.
Ain't a damn thing you finna type out that's going to make this better except - My Bad. I fucked up.
I'm sorry that I suggested that black lives don't matter especially on Christmas Eve/Christmas. I will come back later and read but I don't want to leave that apology unsaid.
Nope No thank you No ma'am Keep the self serving, guilt filled apology. It's not helpful. You've shown your true colors, and your ass, in here. There's no need to return. I'm sure @koko has already updated the list.
pixy0stix , who knew? One positive of your original comment is that it's been real easy to unhood GBCN closet assholes. Keep me coming, closet tools. We'd like to publicly know who we're dealing with, in real time. Best Christmas Present Ever!
This one outed herself a few months back. Not a closeted privilege case.
I felt the need to make an entirely new post because some posters implied that climate change is an issue for privileged people. I respectfully disagree with that. I see both issues as life and death situations that disproportionately impact the poor and people of color.
I'm sorry that I don't have time to read the new page of posts and address specific criticism. I'm not ranking lives. I ought to have quoted the poster upthread who said that they hate the false dichotomy because I agree. I concur with many of the people in this thread who are angry with me.
LOL. Way to clear things up. You can't be this stupid. Is that even possible?
I'm going to go with yes. Buy, she'll be back with SamE drivel
I'm sorry that I suggested that black lives don't matter especially on Christmas Eve/Christmas. I will come back later and read but I don't want to leave that apology unsaid.
NAWL. DON'T YOU SAY SHIT ELSE.
You've made it clear that your reading comprehension skills are lacking. we don't dispute the importance of climate change policies. We dispute the fact that some folks would take a fucking racist yet tree hugging politician as a viable candidate.
That speaks volumes to how some perceive policies that impact folks who don't look like them.
Ain't a damn thing you finna type out that's going to make this better except - My Bad. I fucked up.
Hello NitaX . I started getting notifications as I was leaving my house and I realized that I had somehow fucked up and said something hurtful and racist. And the awful part is that yes, absolutely I'm ignorant and I did not at all see how what I said was racist because I agreed with people. I COULD NOT SEE MY RACISM.
But I knew that I had fucked up and that I would not be able to come back for days to read the thread so I apologized then.
"I feel the need to tell you to shut the fuck up and have all the seats. You ain't read a single solitary word in this thread to bring your ass back in here with this foolishness. You concur? You don't concur with anything f you keep trying to explain why I should be placing the needs of my community for equal treatment on the back burner.
You can care about both things, but to tell me a racist is better because they believe in LED lighting and alternative fuel sources is a slap in the face. I'm tired of benevolent folks like you trying to tell me what is best for me. It's better for ME to worry about climate change than to worry if some extra cops drag me out of my car and shoot me.
Get the fuck out of here with this nonsense."
I'm quoting you because even though I keep saying ignorant things and have pissed you off, you were willing to talk and engage and explain for several posts. And I ordered King's book.
So, having finally read the thread, I see that it is not that people disagree with Climate Change. AT ALL. NitaX, please correct me or add more but the racist thing that I did is that that interrupting a discussion about extrajudicial killings to talk about something that I care about is all very, "SHUT UP BLACK PEOPLE, I'M TALKING NOW." And there is a history of liberal white people doing just this and we've talked about it on the board with respect to Patricia Whats-her-name and feminism and other examples. SO I SHOULD EVEN KNOW BETTER. But still, I struggle to even SEE the racism in myself sometimes.
And in the context of this specific thread--and holy shit I regret skimming--am I basically saying that black lives do not matter because I would vote for a racist politician and fuck black people? Because fuck me, that's a awful thing to say to people right before everyone goes off to spend time with their children and families and an especially hateful thing to say right before all the shit in Chicago. I'm sorry. I fucked this one up by not caring enough to read and I ended up saying shitty, shitty things to people I respect and I did the whole "Sorry you are offended" apology thing too.
It's understandable if people ignore, block or think very little of me from here on in. Because natural consequences. But I'm going to continue to lurk/listen and keep posting because I do struggle with ignorance and racism and CEP is wonderful. Please don't Lys me.
Post by cookiemdough on Dec 28, 2015 8:58:28 GMT -5
No it is not that you interjected climate change in this discussion that is the problem. It is your argument that you view that as a greater threat and would put that ahead of civil rights issues minorities in this country are facing if forced to make the choice in an election. I am sure you don't like how you came across but you can't soften what you said. You put up stats to support the number of people that could die in Bangladesh vs the number killed by police brutality to support YOUR argument that you were justified in prioritizing. Climate change even if it meant voting for someone that would not champion civil rights here. That is what people are pissed about. Not that you dared mention climate change in this thread.
You've made it clear that your reading comprehension skills are lacking. we don't dispute the importance of climate change policies. We dispute the fact that some folks would take a fucking racist yet tree hugging politician as a viable candidate.
That speaks volumes to how some perceive policies that impact folks who don't look like them.
Ain't a damn thing you finna type out that's going to make this better except - My Bad. I fucked up.
Hello NitaX . I started getting notifications as I was leaving my house and I realized that I had somehow fucked up and said something hurtful and racist. And the awful part is that yes, absolutely I'm ignorant and I did not at all see how what I said was racist because I agreed with people. I COULD NOT SEE MY RACISM.
But I knew that I had fucked up and that I would not be able to come back for days to read the thread so I apologized then.
"I feel the need to tell you to shut the fuck up and have all the seats. You ain't read a single solitary word in this thread to bring your ass back in here with this foolishness. You concur? You don't concur with anything f you keep trying to explain why I should be placing the needs of my community for equal treatment on the back burner.
You can care about both things, but to tell me a racist is better because they believe in LED lighting and alternative fuel sources is a slap in the face. I'm tired of benevolent folks like you trying to tell me what is best for me. It's better for ME to worry about climate change than to worry if some extra cops drag me out of my car and shoot me.
Get the fuck out of here with this nonsense."
I'm quoting you because even though I keep saying ignorant things and have pissed you off, you were willing to talk and engage and explain for several posts. And I ordered King's book.
So, having finally read the thread, I see that it is not that people disagree with Climate Change. AT ALL. NitaX, please correct me or add more but the racist thing that I did is that that interrupting a discussion about extrajudicial killings to talk about something that I care about is all very, "SHUT UP BLACK PEOPLE, I'M TALKING NOW." And there is a history of liberal white people doing just this and we've talked about it on the board with respect to Patricia Whats-her-name and feminism and other examples. SO I SHOULD EVEN KNOW BETTER. But still, I struggle to even SEE the racism in myself sometimes.
And in the context of this specific thread--and holy shit I regret skimming--am I basically saying that black lives do not matter because I would vote for a racist politician and fuck black people? Because fuck me, that's a awful thing to say to people right before everyone goes off to spend time with their children and families and an especially hateful thing to say right before all the shit in Chicago. I'm sorry. I fucked this one up by not caring enough to read and I ended up saying shitty, shitty things to people I respect and I did the whole "Sorry you are offended" apology thing too.
It's understandable if people ignore, block or think very little of me from here on in. Because natural consequences. But I'm going to continue to lurk/listen and keep posting because I do struggle with ignorance and racism and CEP is wonderful. Please don't Lys me.
First of all, I don't block people. I prefer to see every manner of foolishness brought by people so that I know how to deal with you.
What Cookie wrote above is perfect, because that's what you did. You rolled in here with stats that implied we have very little to worry about. Because - hey these people are priority over your bellyaching. That's how that read. Not because climate change was mentioned, it was the same dismissive manner in which Reeve came in here trying to white-man-splain the world to us.
The world for me is if I can send my kid to the mall and hope no one follows her around like they do to me. The world to me is if I can get pulled over by the police for justified reasons, not just being a black person in the "wrong" neighborhood. I guess folks think that is made up, but there are two cities near Memphis that I never speed in. NEVER. Because if I do, they are going to pull me over and try to figure out what my ass is doing out there. Nevermind that I came from a party - it's also why I'd never buy a house there. I'm not going where I'm not wanted.
My problem with all of this thread is that I question what - if anything - people have learned from the vantage points shared by POC on these boards. Did you really read what we wrote? Did you internalize it? Did it make you question the world you live in? Did it open your eyes to seeing the systemic issues of racism? My feeling is NO. Because if you justify voting for a known racist - you've learned nothing.
Post by omgzombies on Dec 28, 2015 11:25:37 GMT -5
Wow... 22 pages. And from reading the last page it sounds like some good points were made that I should probably read. I know what I'm doing on my lunch break.
liberals who, from the safety of a desk in a mostly white office, were all about lip service but didn't like being where they actually had to interact with the people they professed to be helping. So yeah, white privilege knows no party.
I'm only on page 20 and have a lot more reading to do to catch up, but I had to nod to the above--the bolded fucking DEFINES the PNW in general--and Portland in particular.
Back to reading.
ETA: and now I'm caught up and see that nofucksgiven's quote was more spot on than I realized. JFC.
No it is not that you interjected climate change in this discussion that is the problem. It is your argument that you view that as a greater threat and would put that ahead of civil rights issues minorities in this country are facing if forced to make the choice in an election. I am sure you don't like how you came across but you can't soften what you said. You put up stats to support the number of people that could die in Bangladesh vs the number killed by police brutality to support YOUR argument that you were justified in prioritizing. Climate change even if it meant voting for someone that would not champion civil rights here. That is what people are pissed about. Not that you dared mention climate change in this thread.
My words choices were terrible: trickle vs vast. I don't want this to come across as me arguing that I am innocent, I know I fucked up. I should not have put the numbers up like that, side by side.
I fail as a wanna-be ally but please trust that I know that 6000 lives per years IS a huge number. Extrajudicial deaths have been happening for years plus the rates have not been going down. How many lives have been lost over the years? What will things be like in 100 years? I don't know and I never meant to make a side-by-side comparison. In my mind, 6000 lives a year signals some kind of vast if unknown number.
Again, I don't mean this as me saying I'm innocent, but I never meant for a comparison. One is a rate and the other is single time point. Also the climate thing was my back-of-the envelope calculation as opposed to real world data. But I think I'm getting into whitesplaining territory again so I'm going to stop myself and just reiterate that I'm thankful that people are interacting with me, ignorance and all.