He isn't even conservative. He has the most progressive tax plan of any of the R candidates. And building a wall on the border of Mexico is an insanely expensive endeavor, and will not be paid for by Mexico, so having Americans foot the bill is anything but conservative.
He appeals to the xenophobic chucklefucks that can't fathom the idea of anyone that doesn't look like them being accepted and living peacefully in our country. It's unfortunate that someone is so stuck on voting along party lines would vote for someone so vile.
Exactly. He voted for Obama in 2012, and is on the record as supporting Democrats on a whole number of liberal issues. He supported universal health care, gay marriage, and abortion. There is absolutely nothing about him that suggests he's a "conservative" or supports the party's principals or anything else. There is nothing about his business success that is uniquely "Republican."
His appeal is that he's racist, misogynist, and not PC. So telling people who would vote for him that he's a racist is going to fall on deaf ears. That's why they like him.
Clearly tillie, along with huge numbers of the electorate, and the RNC and every single Republican candidate running for office (all of whom say that he'd be a better leader than Hillary Clinton) all think that a racist left wing politician is better than a non-racist left wing politician. That's why there's no point asking her why she'd vote for a racist. It's obvious where their priorities lie.
I still find it shocking that she'd vote for Trump. I know a number of very far right people who will not vote for Trump. They won't vote for a Democrat, either, but they will vote third party or abstain before voting for Trump.
She'll vote party line. Much like others here that would vote for a Dem regardless of candidate. Which is why I don't find it shocking in the least.
I find it difficult to imagine a Democratic candidate similar to Trump at this point in time. That doesn't mean it isn't possible in the future; the parties have flipped before. But I can guarantee you that if Hillary or Bernie were caught talking about registering Muslims, My ass would be voting third party. And I would be campaigning, donating money, and doing everything short of election fraud to make third party fucking happen.
He isn't even conservative. He has the most progressive tax plan of any of the R candidates. And building a wall on the border of Mexico is an insanely expensive endeavor, and will not be paid for by Mexico, so having Americans foot the bill is anything but conservative.
He appeals to the xenophobic chucklefucks that can't fathom the idea of anyone that doesn't look like them being accepted and living peacefully in our country. It's unfortunate that someone is so stuck on voting along party lines would vote for someone so vile.
Exactly. He voted for Obama in 2012, and is on the record as supporting Democrats on a whole number of liberal issues. He supported universal health care, gay marriage, and abortion. There is absolutely nothing about him that suggests he's a "conservative" or supports the party's principals or anything else. There is nothing about his business success that is uniquely "Republican."
His appeal is that he's racist, misogynist, and not PC. So telling people who would vote for him that he's a racist is going to fall on deaf ears. That's why they like him.
Clearly tillie , along with huge numbers of the electorate, and the RNC and every single Republican candidate running for office (all of whom say that he'd be a better leader than Hillary Clinton) all think that a racist left wing politician is better than a non-racist left wing politician. That's why there's no point asking her why she'd vote for a racist. It's obvious where their priorities lie.
This is a little unfair b/c although Trump has a history as pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro health care reforms - he has changed his views. He is party line in a lot of that. As Trump has said numerous times, he's changed like Reagan, who was also a Democrat at once, then became the GOP-loved force that he is now. He's anti-abortion, he's anti-ACA, pro-death penalty, he's anti-wall street regulations (no estate tax and no tax on capital gains/hedge fund gains), he wants corporations to not be taxed (which is the reason corporations would return to the US), and he's anti-immigration. Trump is racist and a misogynist, but he's also a Republican in most of his social and fiscal ways.
Exactly. He voted for Obama in 2012, and is on the record as supporting Democrats on a whole number of liberal issues. He supported universal health care, gay marriage, and abortion. There is absolutely nothing about him that suggests he's a "conservative" or supports the party's principals or anything else. There is nothing about his business success that is uniquely "Republican."
His appeal is that he's racist, misogynist, and not PC. So telling people who would vote for him that he's a racist is going to fall on deaf ears. That's why they like him.
Clearly tillie , along with huge numbers of the electorate, and the RNC and every single Republican candidate running for office (all of whom say that he'd be a better leader than Hillary Clinton) all think that a racist left wing politician is better than a non-racist left wing politician. That's why there's no point asking her why she'd vote for a racist. It's obvious where their priorities lie.
This is a little unfair b/c although Trump has a history as pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro health care reforms - he has changed his views. He is party line in a lot of that. As Trump has said numerous times, he's changed like Reagan, who was also a Democrat at once, then became the GOP-loved force that he is now. He's anti-abortion, he's anti-ACA, pro-death penalty, he's anti-wall street regulations (no estate tax and no tax on capital gains/hedge fund gains), he wants corporations to not be taxed (which is the reason corporations would return to the US), and he's anti-immigration. Trump is racist and a misogynist, but he's also a Republican in most of his social and fiscal ways.
I get that people change their minds, but it wasn't like Reagan was out there voting for Carter and supporting his agenda a couple years before he ran for president. A lot of Trump's comments are very out of line with mainstream Republican thinking. Google "Trump not a conservative" and you will find dozens of recent articles from every prominent right wing site criticizing his past and present statements. If people are just voting party line here on this, they really need to stop and ask themselves why, because if they are really in this for "conservative" or "republican" principles, they aren't going to get those things by voting for Trump.
This is a little unfair b/c although Trump has a history as pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro health care reforms - he has changed his views. He is party line in a lot of that. As Trump has said numerous times, he's changed like Reagan, who was also a Democrat at once, then became the GOP-loved force that he is now. He's anti-abortion, he's anti-ACA, pro-death penalty, he's anti-wall street regulations (no estate tax and no tax on capital gains/hedge fund gains), he wants corporations to not be taxed (which is the reason corporations would return to the US), and he's anti-immigration. Trump is racist and a misogynist, but he's also a Republican in most of his social and fiscal ways.
I get that people change their minds, but it wasn't like Reagan was out there voting for Carter and supporting his agenda a couple years before he ran for president. A lot of Trump's comments are very out of line with mainstream Republican thinking. Google "Trump not a conservative" and you will find dozens of recent articles from every prominent right wing site criticizing his past and present statements. If people are just voting party line here on this, they really need to stop and ask themselves why, because if they are really in this for "conservative" or "republican" principles, they aren't going to get those things by voting for Trump.
I know that and you know that, but he is telling the people who want to vote for him that he's changed and he is showing it by continually getting more conservative in his views. Heck just a year ago he thought his left-leaning sister in the courts would make a great Supreme Court Justice and then when asked more specifically a month or so ago he was all, "NOPE, not even John Roberts is conservative enough for me." So it's like b/c he wasn't a politician, he is forgiven of his past support or associations b/c now he's going to do the real conservative work for Republicans in the US.
I still find it shocking that she'd vote for Trump. I know a number of very far right people who will not vote for Trump. They won't vote for a Democrat, either, but they will vote third party or abstain before voting for Trump.
She'll vote party line. Much like others here that would vote for a Dem regardless of candidate. Which is why I don't find it shocking in the least.
Ok, but multiple people just in this thread have said if the tables were turned, they would not vote for the dem candidate just because.
This is a little unfair b/c although Trump has a history as pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro health care reforms - he has changed his views. He is party line in a lot of that. As Trump has said numerous times, he's changed like Reagan, who was also a Democrat at once, then became the GOP-loved force that he is now. He's anti-abortion, he's anti-ACA, pro-death penalty, he's anti-wall street regulations (no estate tax and no tax on capital gains/hedge fund gains), he wants corporations to not be taxed (which is the reason corporations would return to the US), and he's anti-immigration. Trump is racist and a misogynist, but he's also a Republican in most of his social and fiscal ways.
I get that people change their minds, but it wasn't like Reagan was out there voting for Carter and supporting his agenda a couple years before he ran for president. A lot of Trump's comments are very out of line with mainstream Republican thinking. Google "Trump not a conservative" and you will find dozens of recent articles from every prominent right wing site criticizing his past and present statements. If people are just voting party line here on this, they really need to stop and ask themselves why, because if they are really in this for "conservative" or "republican" principles, they aren't going to get those things by voting for Trump.
Not to mention that since Trump has zero experience in elected office, we have absolutely no evidence to support these supposed position changes. We are literally just taking his word for it.
Hillary also grew up a Republican and supported Goldwater in 1964, but we've got strong evidence that she no longer aligns with the Republicans.
Believe me, I hope it doesn't come to it. I still feel Trump may pull something closer to the primaries. However, HRC is a criminal and crook and Bernie has Robinhood syndrome
I hoping it will be Rubio, who I'm still not thrilled about.
TILLIE! Â I don't understand voting in someone misogynist and racist purely out of spite. Â The only reason you want to vote for Trump is so a Democrat doesn't win, and I don't understand that. Â I get not liking the stance Dems take, but I do not get this impetus to "win" at every cost, just for the sake of winning.Â
Exactly. Who cares if tillie is conservative or has conservative views - of course she is entitled to whatever opinion. But to say you don't actually like trump or agree with him, but you will vote for him over any other candidate, a third party, abstaining or anything else is just petty.
If you legit think that Trump would be better for America than Hillary, especially when it comes to dealing with other governments around the world, then you need Jesus.
I am not a fan of any of the Republican candidates, but the if the Democrats nominated a Trump equivalent and the Republican opponent were Rubio, I'd hold my nose and vote Rubio. FOR FUCK'S SAKE. We are talking about the future of the republic here, not political preferences.
I would rather vote for a goat than Hilary or Bernie.
Voting 3rd party is basically throwing my vote away. Trump is NOT any where near my ideal candidate. None of them are. I hope it doesn't come to voting for him, but I'll do if last resort.
Have you ever, in the years you've been posting here, known me to be simple or uninformed or naive? Do you genuinely believe that I would willingly do something that I viewed as futile or pointless? Knowing my intensity about politics, do you think that I would "throw my vote away"? Or @ladydisdain?
Nothing changes if you hold your nose and vote. Nothing. There is no incentive for a party to change its message if you vote for them purely on partisan lines regardless of their message. THAT is the definition of throwing your vote away: supporting things and people you staunchly disagree with just because that'll show someone.
Sigh. I knew something like this would wrangle me back here.
Prepare thyself...
VOTING THIRD PARTY IS NOT THROWING YOUR VOTE AWAY.
Your vote is your voice. Always. Forever. It's what we fucking fought for through wars and uprisings and revolts and protests. From pulled hair to poured-out blood, getting the right to vote for who I damn well please - whether they toe up to a particular party line or not - is my goddamned right and obligation and duty as an American who gives a flying fuck about what happens in this nation from day-to-day and into the next decades. Since I refuse to relinquish that duty/obligation/right, I can't not vote. So I vote for the other.
So no, thank you very much, I'm not throwing my vote away. I'm communicating, loud and clear and with great feeling, to the establishments-that-be that I'm frustrated as hell at the ridiculous, money-motivated and dollar-supported options being shoved down my throat each and every goddamned cycle.
So yes, if you're right as rain with how the current party platforms and anointed candidates are going, get on with your bad self. If you're not, VOTE OTHERWISE.
And here's this, just because it completely encapsulates why I vote third/other party nowadays.
ETA: Ah, I see this thread basically has it all from paging Rs on an as-needed basis between assertions that any Rs are to blame if Trump is elected, even though my count shows that exactly one R on this board has declared that as their intention. Sorry all the racist R posters must be busy elsewhere or they'd surely respond with gratitude at being included. Bye.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
Do you feel, as a republican, that trump is a good or bad candidate? We all know he's an asshole but do you honestly think he can a) do the job, and b) beat the Dems?
Because I don't think he could actually be president very well. And I'm not saying that because I'm a liberal. I just feel he's SO narcissistic that he could never give up his lifestyle to do the job. He wants to WIN, he doesn't want to be president. Does that make sense? I mean, I don't like Rubio or Cruz at all either but I feel like they'd at least take the job seriously.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
I have, and would, vote third party. I would not be voting for anyone racist/misogynistic. I can look over a lot of lies or shenanigans from politicians. The level of vitriol spewed by Trump? No. The fact the rest of the free world thinks he is a moron? No. I mean, the UK has a petition to BAN HIM! I would not vote for a man one of our closest allies wants to ban from entering their country. I am sure some democrats would vote straight party ticket, but I would hope most of the people on this board would not. I think most people on here educate themselves.
I wonder how many black or minority R's they polled. lg28o you think black Dems would vote for a racist an openly racist Dem nominee?
I would certainly hope not. Let me be very clear in that I don't think ANYONE should vote for a racist, no Matter how many redeeming qualities otherwise they may have
But let's say the leading Dem is very anti-abortion or sometning else?? Would that sway them to switch parties?
I've voted liberal and NDP in Canada. I don't think I've ever voted conservative, but I would for the right candidate. So I DO switch my vote, but we have more options here.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
I disagree. They may not vote R, but I HIGHLY doubt that they vote for an openly racist, misogynistic, asshole. Most of this board swings left-do you REALLY think most of the women here would vote for the Trump equivalent of a D?
I don't think this board would, but the general population? Sadly, yes I do.
I wonder how many black or minority R's they polled. lg28o you think black Dems would vote for a racist an openly racist Dem nominee?
I would certainly hope not. Let me be very clear in that I don't think ANYONE should vote for a racist, no Matter how many redeeming qualities otherwise they may have
But let's say the leading Dem is very anti-abortion or sometning else?? Would that sway them to switch parties?
I've voted liberal and NDP in Canada. I don't think I've ever voted conservative, but I would for the right candidate. So I DO switch my vote, but we have more options here.
I wouldn't switch parties, but I would vote third party. Like I said, if the Bernie Bros find a Bro candidate to run Dem in 8 years, I will vote third party. And I will campaign like a crazy person to the point I will be as annoying as an MLM pusher.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
It's really hard to play this what-if game because while ESF is right about the dog-whistle politics of the party that has been going on for years, we haven't ever had a candidate quite like Trump. There are a lot of things that apply equally to both parties, and there are a lot of shenanigans that both parties engage in. I'm sure that SOME Democrats would vote for a candidate who is blatantly misogynistic and calls for registering a religious minority. But we have no evidence that a majority of people on this board or a majority of Democrats would do that. Heck, until we have a general election in which Trump is the nominee, we don't even have evidence that a majority of Republicans will vote for him. What we do have is a very real concern about the results if that happens, whereas it's not a reality with regard to the Democratic candidates.
And for the millionth time, nobody is saying that tillie should vote for a Democrat if Trump is the nominee. But voting for Trump sends the message to the party that Trump is an acceptable type of candidate. As I mentioned upthread, I know numerous Republicans who have stated they will abstain or vote third-party before they would vote for Trump. Voting for Trump will just result in more Trump-like candidates.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
I have, and would, vote third party. I would not be voting for anyone racist/misogynistic. I can look over a lot of lies or shenanigans from politicians. The level of vitriol spewed by Trump? No. The fact the rest of the free world thinks he is a moron? No. I mean, the UK has a petition to BAN HIM! I would not vote for a man one of our closest allies wants to ban from entering their country. I am sure some democrats would vote straight party ticket, but I would hope most of the people on this board would not. I think most people on here educate themselves.
Your last line I agree with - most people on HERE educate themselves. I'm talking the general population. People don't pay attention enough. They vote the way they've always voted.
I have, and would, vote third party. I would not be voting for anyone racist/misogynistic. I can look over a lot of lies or shenanigans from politicians. The level of vitriol spewed by Trump? No. The fact the rest of the free world thinks he is a moron? No. I mean, the UK has a petition to BAN HIM! I would not vote for a man one of our closest allies wants to ban from entering their country. I am sure some democrats would vote straight party ticket, but I would hope most of the people on this board would not. I think most people on here educate themselves.
Your last line I agree with - most people on HERE educate themselves. I'm talking the general population. People don't pay attention enough. They vote the way they've always voted.
THIS is why Tillie voting Trump (IF he wins the primary) shocks me so much. I guess I ASSume that if you are on here, no matter which party you vote for, you educate yourself. Seeing this posted on FB or hearing it from people would not surprise me. It was seeing it ON HERE that made me
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
I see what you are saying, sort of. I'm with you that none of us know what we'd do if presented with a candidate who aligned with our views on a lot of issues, demonstrated a great deal of competency, etc, but was also an unabashed racist. I'd like to say I would put my foot down, but at the same time, I don't really know for sure, given that voting for the president is about so much more. For me, it would really depend on a lot of things. If I thought the person respected the constitution and would appoint good judges that would ultimately never uphold whatever garbage legislation happened to slip through, then the damage they could do with their racist remarks could be mitigated in other ways, and the net result at the end of the 4 years would be a better country, then *maybe* I'd hold my nose if I were in a swing state, but not if I were in a "safe" state.
On the other hand, that's not what we've got here. If you reverse the roles *exactly*, then the Democratic bigot's problem is not just that he's a bigot. It's that he would also be espousing right wing views and/or supporting laughable, completely implausible, infeasible, unconstitutional, and childish ideas, all while displaying a third grader's understanding of the constitution, separation of powers, and foreign relations, then NO FUCKING WAY.
The closest thing on the left is Jim Webb. I hate Jim Webb a lot. He's a racist, misogynist, and nut job who, in addition to being those things, likes a lot of Republican shit. I can tell you, I'd be voting third party if he were the candidate in nearly all circumstances. That said, if I were in Ohio and he was up against Trump, I'd have to hold my nose and vote for him for the good of the country, because for all of Webb's flaws, he at least demonstrates an ability to read and think critically and carefully, and behave like an adult.
Seriously??!! If Trump is your Republican option, you would really vote for him? Someone who is outright racist? If the Dems nominated a bigot, I would vote Republican before I would vote for the bigot. This bothers me so much. I'm sorry Tillie, I really don't ever attack anyone on here, but this is so upsetting to me.
Believe me, I hope it doesn't come to it. I still feel Trump may pull something closer to the primaries. However, HRC is a criminal and crook and Bernie has Robinhood syndrome
I hoping it will be Rubio, who I'm still not thrilled about.
Are serious? In 1991, Edwin Edwards (D), the crookedist damn crook who ever crooked, was running against David Duke (R), the former Grand Wizard of the Klan, for governor of Lousiana. My father, who has always been the steadfast far right conservative, managed to hold his nose and vote* for Edwards because he could not stand the idea of politically supporting Duke even though he despised Edwards. Edwards ended up winning in a landslide because the majority of the state chose to vote for the crook they knew while a the ignorant swamp trash voted for Grand fucking Wizard for what ever dumb reasons they chose. Are you better than swamp trash, tillie?
*Technically he took me into the booth with him and made me push the button because he could still claim he never directly voted for a Democrat.
Katie and the rest of the normal conservatives on here think Trump is crazycakes.
@barefootbarista good for you. I don't have the energy to deal with Tillies drivel. She has "liked" way too many questionable statements and taken so many odd stances in the past, I have written her off. PLEASE NOTE: I am cool with pretty much all of the Con's on here so this ain't a Con vs Lib thing.