This is such a big issue, and I know there's no way I can explain myself in a way that is satisfactory to anyone right now. However, we are already dealing with one war that is directly attributed to climate change. A war where the refugees are spurring great shows of racism in many countries, not just our own, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. In the next 29 years, unless something drastic happens, we - all of us - are going to be in great danger. I can't separate that out, because I want the whole of the human race to survive. From macro down to micro, the environment plays a role in everything, from the treatment of women to minority equality.
Saying it's JUST about the environment isn't what I'm worried about.
But it makes no sense to me... also working in and passionate about environmental issues.
You are arguing that climate change and ruining the environment is bad for equality b/c it disproportionately affects lower socioeconomic people and countries, which I agree. But fixing climate change and the environment will not result in inequality and human rights being fixed also - it might make it less of a burden on people in lower socioeconomic areas, but it won't fix it and we have to work on both b/c there are humans here now who need their rights to live life without fear and oppression AND to breath in the air and drink the water.
I'd sideye the fuck out of anyone who voted for a candidate that said a woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home and to STFU, so yeah, I get the POC on the board being pissed off.
Yeah, I'm pissed off. And before I take anything back, I'll add more to it. One thing I'm not going to do is let shit slide. I feel some kinda way about Trump and his racism. Plus, I watched Hotel Rwanda last night and you know what stuck out to me the most - the rhetoric. The fact that these folks used radio to agitate and have folks kill their NEIGHBORS.
Think about it. I have Muslim neighbors. The thought that they would need to be registered as "Good Muslims." W.TA.F. That's where we're at. We've created such a climate of fear that we'd actually vote for the guy who wants to register Muslims. THEY DID THAT SHIT IN NAZI GERMANY. We shipped Japanese off to internment camps.
Did we conveniently forget our history here? This is a nation built upon the slaughter and enslavement of people. We can't go back to that. We can't. And to say you'd take a racist means you've thought NOTHING of repeating the past.
I can't and I will NOT let that slide.
WWWIII will likely make concern for the environment a moot point anyway, so...
It's telling me that climate change is more important than folks ending up dead in police custody and being a racist ain't that high on the hierarchy of being a bad public servant - because these are the people we elect to create policy.
It's not recognizing that all black are a monolithic group and we have varied needs and voices.
That's typical white folks.
You are 100% right, and I walk my statement back. That's not what I was thinking of when I wrote what I did, but I can see now that's what I said.
I really didn't mean it that way, and I apologize. I will take this to heart.
If you can't see the difference between your examples and the horrible things that have come out of Trump's mouth, then it is probably best if you do go away. Disagreeing about political issues is one thing. Supporting a racist candidate (even if you have to hold your nose to do so) is another matter entirely. There is nothing to "discuss" when it comes to racism.
I do see the difference between those quotes and DTs.
I'm glad you see the difference between those quotes and VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE OF YOUR BIGOTRY (because let's be clear, rounding up or banning American citizens based on their religious beliefs is pretty much a HUGE constitutional issue).
I do see the difference between those quotes and DTs.
I'm glad you see the difference between those quotes and VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE OF YOUR BIGOTRY (because let's be clear, rounding up or banning American citizens based on their religious beliefs is pretty much a HUGE constitutional issue).
It's telling me that climate change is more important than folks ending up dead in police custody and being a racist ain't that high on the hierarchy of being a bad public servant - because these are the people we elect to create policy.
It's not recognizing that all black are a monolithic group and we have varied needs and voices.
That's typical white folks.
You are 100% right, and I walk my statement back. That's not what I was thinking of when I wrote what I did, but I can see now that's what I said.
I really didn't mean it that way, and I apologize. I will take this to heart.
I'm glad. Because, this is not something that should be mutually exclusive. Every day, I do both. I walk in a world where I can care about multiple issues at once. I am not choosing one as the lesser of two evils. The rights of others should never been seen as something that can be placed on the back burner.
I do see the difference between those quotes and DTs.
I'm glad you see the difference between those quotes and VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE OF YOUR BIGOTRY (because let's be clear, rounding up or banning American citizens based on their religious beliefs is pretty much a HUGE constitutional issue).
So tell me again why you'd vote for Trump?
Because HRC is a criminal (but Donald Trump totally is on the squeaky up and up with all financial endeavors and taxes), Bernie Sanders is a mythological figure who is going to steal tillie's Audi and give it to crackheads, voting 3rd party wastes her vote, and racists still > Democrats.
This whole discussion scares me even more if Trump was to help pick the next SCOTUS vacancies!
I think this is why this election in particular is making me feel sick and panicky. We can't afford any more mistakes in policy or judicial decisions, whether it's civil rights, environment, whatever.
I'll just say that I understand the point that Pixy was trying to make, since I made a similar one a couple pages back, and it's unfair she's getting jumped on but I escaped. I deserve scorn too. Like Pixy, you all have given me a lot to think about, and I'm deeply sorry if I've offended anyone.
Every single Republican candidate running for president has said that they would support Trump if he got the nomination, and that Trump would make a better president than Hillary Clinton. Does a willingness to support Trump effectively mean that a candidate is a racist like Trump? Or does it tell us nothing at all about their views on race? Somewhere in the middle?
My friend's son's IR2 visa was finally approved this morning. It was the first thing I saw when I opened my email. For a while I was thinking I needed to be most worried about kids beating him up in the playground for his name or teachers asking him if he brought a bomb to school.
Reading this thread (very late in the conversation) has shown me the real threat to that kid. The normal Americans who "aren't racist" and "don't hate Muslims" who would be ok with him and his family interned, tracked and possibly made stateless if they made the wrong decision to take a family vacation to Canada. Not because they'd be ok with that at all, but because they wouldn't do a thing to stop it.
To be fair, tillie is not really a normal American. Or normal person, really.
My friend's son's IR2 visa was finally approved this morning. It was the first thing I saw when I opened my email. For a while I was thinking I needed to be most worried about kids beating him up in the playground for his name or teachers asking him if he brought a bomb to school.
Reading this thread (very late in the conversation) has shown me the real threat to that kid. The normal Americans who "aren't racist" and "don't hate Muslims" who would be ok with him and his family interned, tracked and possibly made stateless if they made the wrong decision to take a family vacation to Canada. Not because they'd be ok with that at all, but because they wouldn't do a thing to stop it.
And truly this is what shocks me to my core. Where are all the people who are perpetually aghast that many German citizens, while not necessarily agreeing with Hitler, just stood by and let him round up and murder their neighbors? Because we are heading straight down that same path and it's unconscionable that people are being willfully blind to it.
To be fair, tillie is not really a normal American. Or normal person, really.
I'm with my family this week. All views of normal America are turned upside down. I should start another post about the conversation I just had with my mom about her crisis pregnancy center.
PM me if you want out. I believe I am local to her, based on your previous posts. I will come and get you!
My friend's son's IR2 visa was finally approved this morning. It was the first thing I saw when I opened my email. For a while I was thinking I needed to be most worried about kids beating him up in the playground for his name or teachers asking him if he brought a bomb to school.
Reading this thread (very late in the conversation) has shown me the real threat to that kid. The normal Americans who "aren't racist" and "don't hate Muslims" who would be ok with him and his family interned, tracked and possibly made stateless if they made the wrong decision to take a family vacation to Canada. Not because they'd be ok with that at all, but because they wouldn't do a thing to stop it.
Well, I'm not sure how valid or large this poll was, but this CBS article states that, "Nearly six-in-10 Americans say the United States should not temporarily bar Muslims from other countries from entering the U.S., and two-thirds say such a ban would go against the founding principles of this country, a CBS News poll shows." So at about 66% of Americans would hopefully stand up if something like this were to happen b/c they do believe it's against the Constitution.
Every single Republican candidate running for president has said that they would support Trump if he got the nomination, and that Trump would make a better president than Hillary Clinton. Does a willingness to support Trump effectively mean that a candidate is a racist like Trump? Or does it tell us nothing at all about their views on race? Somewhere in the middle?
It tells us they are willing to support racist ideologies, so yes, anyone, candidate or not, who would support Trump and his racist ideologies is racist. Would they personally round up Muslims? Possibly not, but what does that matter?
This isn't a matter of disliking or disagreeing with a policy; this is a matter of a person's core morality and guiding principles. Trump is the ultimate "What would you do".
Every single Republican candidate running for president has said that they would support Trump if he got the nomination, and that Trump would make a better president than Hillary Clinton. Does a willingness to support Trump effectively mean that a candidate is a racist like Trump? Or does it tell us nothing at all about their views on race? Somewhere in the middle?
What it ultimately tells me is that they are cowards pandering to a base of Americans who fear Islamic Extremists. They are politicians looking to hold the highest office in the land. I have more respect for Lindsey Graham out of this whole thing than anyone else because at least he had the balls to say NO to this foolishness.
I can't say for certain that these people are racists. No where in this thread did I say that Tillie was racist. What I have an issue with is her support for a person espousing racist beliefs because they are like not to create effective public or foreign policy. I'm concerned about your ability to govern here.
And also - this question also goes back to one on my pet peeves in explaining race related issues. We immediately go to "is this person racist and a card carrying KKK member for supporting Trump." I don't know if they are and I can't make that assessment - but what I can say is that your view on policy isn't sound and will likely hurt a number of people. The scope here is larger than is this a bad person - the issue is the law put in place by narrow-minded individuals.
I'll just say that I understand the point that Pixy was trying to make, since I made a similar one a couple pages back, and it's unfair she's getting jumped on but I escaped. I deserve scorn too. Like Pixy, you all have given me a lot to think about, and I'm deeply sorry if I've offended anyone.
I may have missed that thread because trust - the angst I have after reading this originally would have been the same.
Every single Republican candidate running for president has said that they would support Trump if he got the nomination, and that Trump would make a better president than Hillary Clinton. Does a willingness to support Trump effectively mean that a candidate is a racist like Trump? Or does it tell us nothing at all about their views on race? Somewhere in the middle?
I think they are at least complicit in racism. They have at least accepted this asshattery is preferable to a democrat. Which makes them no better than him in my eyes. But this is (part) of why I could never be in politics. I could never just toe the party line. I would be all, "Fuck that asshole, and if THAT is what you people WANT, peace out bitches."
The other part is the number of people who have possibly have pictures of me naked.
You know who could probably comment on "typical white people" stuff? Someone who was raised by WHITE PEOPLE. Get the fuck outta here with that quote.
This is the shit black people are raising hell about. White people are your ally until it doesn't suit them and their agenda. I'm take my ass out of of this thread before I go way too far.
Chile, I already did. I've been cussin. And I'm not sorry about it.
Every single Republican candidate running for president has said that they would support Trump if he got the nomination, and that Trump would make a better president than Hillary Clinton. Does a willingness to support Trump effectively mean that a candidate is a racist like Trump? Or does it tell us nothing at all about their views on race? Somewhere in the middle?
I think this is an excellent question. I think NitaX is right that it's about political expediency. Trump is so popular right now that it's seen as political suicide to cross him. I do wonder how this would play out in a less crowded field. If the Republican field looked more like the Democratic one, size-wise, maybe someone could essentially shore up the entire non-Trump vote by speaking out against him. After all if 30+% of GOP primary voters support Trump, that still means that 60% support someone other than Trump. Of course, with nine trillion other candidates, no single candidate has enough support to overcome Trump.
And then that leaves me wondering whether actually supporting Trump's policies and saying that Trump would be better than any Democrat for political expediency are moral equivalents. I don't know. I wholeheartedly agree that refusing to speak out against Trump is cowardly, but does doing so make one unfit for the nomination, particularly if he or she would not actually enact Trump's racist and xenophobic policies? This is deep shit.
Well, lemme go ahead and weigh in here since it's only about 3 times a year that my opinion matters.
FTR, I left the party over a year ago. I'm very happy to not claim either crap party. If it's Rubio v Hillary, I will likely vote Rubio (his statement on BLM did a lot to convince me he IS a moderate at his core) anyone else, and I'll vote Hillary because of Foreign Policy (y'all know she's a hawk, right). I don't know 1 single Republican that supports Trump. I do know some that I could see voting for him if he won the nom, but they are not people I think highly of. People like my parents would likely not vote at all, although I would talk long and hard with them about making a statement by voting 3rd party.
R candidates saying they'd support Trump if he was the nominee? Whatever. Party unity is a thing on all sides. Saying otherwise, especially at this stage of the game, would be complete and total political suicide. . Dumb in many ways, but especially if they DON'T want Trump to represent the party. But whatever--Lord knows I'm not going to convince a damn one of you that there are R candidates that aren't minions of the devil himself (or Adolph Hitler/Pol Pot/Dick Cheney for the Atheists).
And finally, anonymous polls are such BS. Nothing says "fuck with the real answers" like an anonymous poll. And I think the majority of y'all would LOVE to see Trump as the candidate. Slam dunk win, death of the R party, blah, blah, blah.
You know who could probably comment on "typical white people" stuff? Someone who was raised by WHITE PEOPLE. Get the fuck outta here with that quote.
This is the shit black people are raising hell about. White people are your ally until it doesn't suit them and their agenda. I'm take my ass out of of this thread before I go way too far.
To be perfectly honest, this is why I'm still engaging. I understand and respect that many posters here just can't (or won't) deal, and I can't say I blame them. It's frustrating. But as long as tillie is here, I want to continue to have a discourse in hopes that her perception can be challenged and maybe even changed because addressing racism, both covert and overt, is that important. This board has helped me understand that white people have a responsibility to help educate our community. Black people have been burdened with that task for far too long. So I'm going to do one thing I can do right now, which is to come and "get my cousin". She's admitted before that she's changed her views on certain issues so I'm willing to believe it can happen again.
So, here's the thing. I think trump is a piece of shit candidate. And I would never vote for him.
But I highly doubt, If roles were reversed, and the Dems has the racist asshole candidate that many people would just vote Rep instead. People tow the party line a LOT. That doesn't mean that everyone would, but probably the majority.
That's partially why trump is precisely SO scary. He absolutely could be elected because many R's won't vote Dem. Nor would many d's vote R.
Exactly. Along with third party.
OK, I am super behind this thread but I have to shout here - WHY are you agreeing with and quoting people who basically are calling you simple? You are 100% acknowledging that you're not giving it an awful lot of thought because "gosh I'm a GOP voter." I don't know whether to laugh or cry but JFC - the BEST you can do is "eww I don't like democrats"? God help us.
Also, again, super far behind the thread -but I also have to shout that I don't buy Trump's shtick for a second. His views have changed? Fuck that - if he saw a power vacuum in fucking Peru he'd move there to try to broker power. He doesn't have a "political agenda" or platform. He doesn't have "beliefs." He has a pathological case of hubris and megalomania. If he were running as a Dem, spouting the same lines as Bernie or promising income equality, full paid maternity leave and universal health care I wouldn't buy that either and STILL WOULD NOT VOTE FOR HIM. He is positively transparent and I weep that anyone takes his hunger for fame as a sincere interest or representation of their beliefs. It's pathetic.
OK, I am super behind this thread but I have to shout here - WHY are you agreeing with and quoting people who basically are calling you simple? You are 100% acknowledging that you're not giving it an awful lot of thought because "gosh I'm a GOP voter." I don't know whether to laugh or cry but JFC - the BEST you can do is "eww I don't like democrats"? God help us.
Also, again, super far behind the thread -but I also have to shout that I don't buy Trump's shtick for a second. His views have changed? Fuck that - if he saw a power vacuum in fucking Peru he'd move there to try to broker power. He doesn't have a "political agenda" or platform. He doesn't have "beliefs." He has a pathological case of hubris and megalomania. If he were running as a Dem, spouting the same lines as Bernie or promising income equality, full paid maternity leave and universal health care I wouldn't buy that either and STILL WOULD NOT VOTE FOR HIM. He is positively transparent and I weep that anyone takes his hunger for fame as a sincere interest or representation of their beliefs. It's pathetic.
A Trump America in 2016. Flush.
This is why he is scary to me. Because he doesn't seem to understand that he will need to govern. and if he caters to a crazy base of the American public, what will happen when he starts creating policy based off of his popularity. We can't people. We can't allow that level of lunacy to be in office.
Okay. I do have an admission. The news came on and they were talking about Trump. I admit that I cringe and usually change the channel. I used to say to DH that "God I hope he doesn't get the nom." (DH is not that political). I do admit I do bury my head too much when it comes do him, mostly because I hope it's not even an issue.
okay but tillie, this is exactly everyone's point. if you have this reaction to a candidate WHY ON EARTH would you vote for them??
I only got this far, but this isn't true for me. I would gladly sit at home or write in a vote before I vote the party line just because. That's bullshit.
Right? I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 because I was angry about extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens. That doesn't mean I felt compelled to vote for Romney. I just left that part of the ballot blank. It's actually easier than filling in another bubble
And yet we are somehow stupid and don't recognize we threw our votes away.
You know who could probably comment on "typical white people" stuff? Someone who was raised by WHITE PEOPLE. Get the fuck outta here with that quote.
This is the shit black people are raising hell about. White people are your ally until it doesn't suit them and their agenda. I'm take my ass out of of this thread before I go way too far.
To be perfectly honest, this is why I'm still engaging. I understand and respect that many posters here just can't (or won't) deal, and I can't say I blame them. It's frustrating. But as long as tillie is here, I want to continue to have a discourse in hopes that her perception can be challenged and maybe even changed because addressing racism, both covert and overt, is that important. This board has helped me understand that white people have a responsibility to help educate our community. Black people have been burdened with that task for far too long. So I'm going to do one thing I can do right now, which is to come and "get my cousin". She's admitted before that she's changed her views on certain issues so I'm willing to believe it can happen again.
I was civil and earnest as hell and was roundly ignored, so there's that.
Well, lemme go ahead and weigh in here since it's only about 3 times a year that my opinion matters.
FTR, I left the party over a year ago. I'm very happy to not claim either crap party. If it's Rubio v Hillary, I will likely vote Rubio (his statement on BLM did a lot to convince me he IS a moderate at his core) anyone else, and I'll vote Hillary because of Foreign Policy (y'all know she's a hawk, right). I don't know 1 single Republican that supports Trump. I do know some that I could see voting for him if he won the nom, but they are not people I think highly of. People like my parents would likely not vote at all, although I would talk long and hard with them about making a statement by voting 3rd party.
R candidates saying they'd support Trump if he was the nominee? Whatever. Party unity is a thing on all sides. Saying otherwise, especially at this stage of the game, would be complete and total political suicide. . Dumb in many ways, but especially if they DON'T want Trump to represent the party. But whatever--Lord knows I'm not going to convince a damn one of you that there are R candidates that aren't minions of the devil himself (or Adolph Hitler/Pol Pot/Dick Cheney for the Atheists).
And finally, anonymous polls are such BS. Nothing says "fuck with the real answers" like an anonymous poll. And I think the majority of y'all would LOVE to see Trump as the candidate. Slam dunk win, death of the R party, blah, blah, blah.
You are so damn ridiculous. Ain't nobody in here running around yelling about how all the R candidates are minions of the damn Devil. Hell, folks have even said they could deal with Rubio/Jeb!. For somebody who claims not to be part of any party, you sure as shit are quick to get all up in your fucking feelings when people start bitching about the R's. Trump is the focus of this thread and you still want to roll up on your Martyrmobile with this bullsit. Bye Felicia.
She was paged to this thread so someone wanted her opinion.