So, are we talking about that MMM thread..

[Kristinmo]

Jan 27, 2016 21:10:12 GMT -5 cville said:

Why is this post shrinking?

I was just thinking the same thing. Is someone deleting to hide something they said?

[kevin arnold]

Jan 27, 2016 21:12:56 GMT -5 Kristinmo said:

Jan 27, 2016 21:10:12 GMT -5 cville said:

Why is this post shrinking?

I was just thinking the same thing. Is someone deleting to hide something they said?

Speaking of chicken...

[kevin arnold]

Get it??!!?

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 27, 2016 21:29:34 GMT -5 mishy said:

Jan 27, 2016 20:29:11 GMT -5 elle said:

If so, it's a false confession. There are apparently more than one (or two!) people who think I displayed racial insensitivity to the chicken.

It's not to the chicken. omg. You are being an asshole.

Right.

I mean, unless the chicken cooked itself utilizing traditional spices and techniques from its coop.

I jest. But I don't get how it's not a micro aggression (not against the literal chicken).

[gretchenindisguise]

Oh and I also don't think v needs an apology. Those are separate things.

[SKP82]

But Elle is still joking about it and not admitting that what she said was a microagression.

It's like she didn't take anything away from what has happened here in the last 2 days.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 21:05:05 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I hope I don't end up hating myeslf for asking, but why ISN'T brushing off the distinction between Cuban and Peruvian chicken offensive? Isn't this an all look (cook, taste) the same thing?

eta: I do agree the chicken talk/joking in this thread was ridiculous. I skimmed over it in the MMM thread so not opining on that one.

1. It's a chicken.

2. The restaurant discussed was posted by Anna who is cuban. At first I also thought it was a cuban restaurant they were talking about, but then I saw that it was specifically mentioned that it was peruvian. I assume Elle just read quickly and/or forgot. Not that she thinks that all latin american cooking is the same.

3. If you read the micro aggressions thread several of us have examples that we explain how things aren't offensive. For example, in regards to asking where someone is from. If you asked another person, whom you're friends with, where they're from and are genuienly curious...that is a whole different ball game then it being the first thing out of your mouth when you meet someone and hounding on "REALLY, where are you from"

4. I get this is probably oh so confusing for those who have been recently enlightened about microagression, like there needs to be a neat rule book and flow chart for what is and isn't ok. But really there just isn't. I don't know if everyone will always "get it." And some things might offend one person and might not offend another.

5. Overall I can just tell and know when someone is being micro aggressive and racially insensitive or an asshole and elle's mistake about the chicken wasn't it in my opinion. In no way, shape or form does she need to apologize to V, ESPECIALLY because V was the one who was flippant in the first place. 

[SKP82]

Jan 27, 2016 13:35:57 GMT -5 elle said:

Well, I feel compelled to say that, after seeing the word micro aggression misappropriated in support of a chicken (someone is still messaging me insisting I apologize to either V or the chicken, BTW), and watching people insist that racial micro-aggression is awful but of course they themselves cannot be capable of if because tney had THEIR awakening when they threw Stella off the board (as if that were micro-aggressions' correlary to "I have black friends"), I think I personally have a better understanding of how kirkette came to a place where she began releasing walls of text. I am still worried about her, but I think I have a better understanding of the cause.

Isn't this exactly what you are doing right now?

People are pointing out to you that you have committed a micro-agression, but you continue to deflect and make jokes.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 22:05:02 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Jan 27, 2016 13:35:57 GMT -5 elle said:

Well, I feel compelled to say that, after seeing the word micro aggression misappropriated in support of a chicken (someone is still messaging me insisting I apologize to either V or the chicken, BTW), and watching people insist that racial micro-aggression is awful but of course they themselves cannot be capable of if because tney had THEIR awakening when they threw Stella off the board (as if that were micro-aggressions' correlary to "I have black friends"), I think I personally have a better understanding of how kirkette came to a place where she began releasing walls of text. I am still worried about her, but I think I have a better understanding of the cause.

Isn't this exactly what you are doing right now?

People are pointing out to you that you have committed a micro-agression, but you continue to deflect and make jokes.

Damn, I'm so confused.

I thought elle was getting PMs to apologize to V. 

Which is why I'm confused because V isn't peruvian or cuban (as far as I know) and didn't seem offended. 
But now elle is getting PMs from people who were offended themselves?

But who knows what I missed in this massive thread. 

[SKP82]

Jan 27, 2016 22:13:01 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:05:02 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Isn't this exactly what you are doing right now?

People are pointing out to you that you have committed a micro-agression, but you continue to deflect and make jokes.

Damn, I'm so confused.

I thought elle was getting PMs to apologize to V. 

Which is why I'm confused because V isn't peruvian or cuban (as far as I know) and didn't seem offended. 
But now elle is getting PMs from people who were offended themselves?

But who knows what I missed in this massive thread. 

From what I gather, Elle got a PM from someone which stated that she had committed a micro-agression with her Cuban comment AND that she should apologize to V.

I am in no way saying that Elle owes V an apology (no one here is).

Honestly, I don't think anyone here is offended by what Elle said (I could be wrong, of course). They are just pointing out to her that what she said was, indeed, a micro-aggression and that she should acknowledge that.

[SKP82]

Jan 27, 2016 22:16:45 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I wasn't talking about the initial mistake.

Right. She is being flippant about the mistake and that is what is/could be offensive.

ETA: The initial mistake could be offensive as well, but the continued joking/brushing it aside is what people are pointing out.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 27, 2016 22:03:34 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jan 27, 2016 21:05:05 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I hope I don't end up hating myeslf for asking, but why ISN'T brushing off the distinction between Cuban and Peruvian chicken offensive? Isn't this an all look (cook, taste) the same thing?

eta: I do agree the chicken talk/joking in this thread was ridiculous. I skimmed over it in the MMM thread so not opining on that one.

"

4. I get this is probably oh so confusing for those who have been recently enlightened about microagression, like there needs to be a neat rule book and flow chart for what is and isn't ok. But really there just isn't. I don't know if everyone will always "get it." And some things might offend one person and might not offend another.

;

This is condescending as fuck.

[teflepi]

Jan 27, 2016 12:31:58 GMT -5 05heel said:

Jan 27, 2016 12:21:29 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

My thoughts:

Learning is a continuing process. "Still learning" isn't an issue in and off itself. But grown women raising their own children shouldn't be "still learning" the equivalent of 2-1 = 1. And it shouldn't take a story like "remember how I had two kids and one died? And now I have one? Yeah. That is how subtraction works" to get the message across.  

Yes.  I've always been on the militant side (to put it mildly), but having a brown kid of my own and hanging out with other mothers has left me completely hopeless for a better tomorrow.  I find it utterly disheartening to see post after post of "I had no idea" from people who I always assumed I didn't have to worry about.  Remember, I grew up poor and cut my teeth on the type of overt racism that we all recognize from a mile away.  So now I'm pretty wealthy and have degrees, publications, and professional clout.  Same shit different toilet.  Plus now I have the added pressure of helping my kid navigate a world I didn't grow up in, while simultaneously learning how to navigate it myself.   These threads don't help me in that AT ALL.  Well, I guess they do in that they validate and confirm my past experiences.  But it's certainly not what I want or wanted for my own child.  I honestly don't know how my parents did it without losing their damn heads.

I am not sure how best to word this, but please know you have allies.  I am hoping there are more now.  I am becoming very angry and moving to doing more, fighting more.  For me, it is selfish.  I have a child of color, I did not grow up without privilege (I am white, as is my dh), and we are well off.  I want to be sure he doesn't not have the tools to deal with any of it.  Reading these, speaking with people IRL, it all helps to point me in areas where I am lacking and where I need to step up and be an ally.  I don't know how POC don't lose their minds, but fighting stupidity is a first step (I hope this makes sense...day 4 of snow days is making me a little loopy)

[underwaterrhymes]

I think there is a big difference between what elle did (which was misremember whether the chicken dish was Peruvian or Cuban) and confusing the two because you're careless or you don't give a fuck.

One is not a microagression and the other is.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 22:21:36 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:03:34 GMT -5 @wandering said:

"

4. I get this is probably oh so confusing for those who have been recently enlightened about microagression, like there needs to be a neat rule book and flow chart for what is and isn't ok. But really there just isn't. I don't know if everyone will always "get it." And some things might offend one person and might not offend another.

;

This is condescending as fuck.

I think it's the truth. There have been a lot of questions, which is fine. I think people have been trying to answer and have a conversation. That's great. But there really aren't clear defined rules for every scenario. I really don't know how else to explain it other than to say there is no clear flow chart for every situation. 

[fryjack2]

My reaction to Elle's pm post was because she said the PM was asking her to apologize to the chicken.

I'm not attempting to distract from the bigger topic.

[SKP82]

Jan 27, 2016 22:27:17 GMT -5 toledo said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:19:28 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

From what I gather, Elle got a PM from someone which stated that she had committed a micro-agression with her Cuban comment AND that she should apologize to V.

I am in no way saying that Elle owes V an apology (no one here is).

Honestly, I don't think anyone here is offended by what Elle said (I could be wrong, of course). They are just pointing out to her that what she said was, indeed, a micro-aggression and that she should acknowledge that.

Elle doesn't have to do any goddamn thing she doesn't want to do.

Neither does Booby.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 22:19:28 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:13:01 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Damn, I'm so confused.

I thought elle was getting PMs to apologize to V. 

Which is why I'm confused because V isn't peruvian or cuban (as far as I know) and didn't seem offended. 
But now elle is getting PMs from people who were offended themselves?

But who knows what I missed in this massive thread. 

From what I gather, Elle got a PM from someone which stated that she had committed a micro-agression with her Cuban comment AND that she should apologize to V.

I am in no way saying that Elle owes V an apology (no one here is).

Honestly, I don't think anyone here is offended by what Elle said (I could be wrong, of course). They are just pointing out to her that what she said was, indeed, a micro-aggression and that she should acknowledge that.

Ok, yeah I think I missed that part entirely. I didn't realize someone thought that.
I'm glad no one is offended. 

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 22:16:45 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I wasn't talking about the initial mistake.

Is this in response to me?

Then my bad, I clearly misunderstood your question. 

[SKP82]

OMG Why are people focusing on the FUCKING CHICKEN. It's not about the chicken.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 27, 2016 22:29:06 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:21:36 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

This is condescending as fuck.

I think it's the truth. There have been a lot of questions, which is fine. I think people have been trying to answer and have a conversation. That's great. But there really aren't clear defined rules for every scenario. I really don't know how else to explain it other than to say there is no clear flow chart for every situation. 

Saying there aren't clean lines is absolutely true, but you can't tell me you can't see how your word choice is condescending.

[teflepi]

I am pretty sure being flippant about the culture is a microaggression.

[underwaterrhymes]

You guys know v was being a dick when she made the comment about Cuban vs Peruvian chicken to elle. She was diminishing actual microagressions by comparing them to something silly. She wasn't in any way trying to make an eloquent or educated post about racism.

[fryjack2]

Jan 27, 2016 22:34:22 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

OMG Why are people focusing on the FUCKING CHICKEN. It's not about the chicken.

Because someone asked Elle to apologize to the fucking chicken. Which is ridiculous in light of everything being said in here. Most people realize it's not about the chicken.




Commenting about does not equal focusing on.

[SKP82]

Jan 27, 2016 22:42:26 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

You guys know v was being a dick when she made the comment about Cuban vs Peruvian chicken to elle . She was diminishing actual microagressions by comparing them to something silly. She wasn't in any way trying to make an eloquent or educated post about racism.

No one is saying V wasn't being a dick.

[W.T.Faulkner]

I kind of feel like focusing on the non-issue of the chicken (like UWR said above, misremembering is different than interchanging the two flippantly), instead of the actual issue of a group of board members feeling singled out and targeted and maligned, is just straight-up aggression.

So what the fuck are we doing up in here?

[kevin arnold]

Jan 27, 2016 22:43:57 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:34:22 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

OMG Why are people focusing on the FUCKING CHICKEN. It's not about the chicken.

Because someone asked Elle to apologize to the fucking chicken.

I have a feeling that's not what the PMer actually said, lol.

[cville]

Jan 27, 2016 22:42:26 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

You guys know v was being a dick when she made the comment about Cuban vs Peruvian chicken to elle. She was diminishing actual microagressions by comparing them to something silly. She wasn't in any way trying to make an eloquent or educated post about racism.

She ADMITTED that she'd deleted her sarcastic hashtag because it was flippant. She was trying to be cute and was demeaning in the process.


That purposefully or carelessly conflating the origins of Spanish-speaking cultures is a microaggression is not and has not ever been in question. In my mind at least.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jan 27, 2016 22:39:27 GMT -5 teflepi said:

I am pretty sure being flippant about the culture is a microaggression.

I absolutely agree.

But the commentary about the chicken was in another post. Elle just mentioned that she thought it was amusing it kept popping up. She forgot what kind of chicken dish it was. Then v chimed in trying to be all cute about microagressions.

Absolutely 100% it is a microagression to be flippant or careless about where someone or their traditions or their food is from.

But I am fairly certain that's not what happened here.

[fryjack2]

Jan 27, 2016 22:45:49 GMT -5 kevin arnold said:

Jan 27, 2016 22:43:57 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Because someone asked Elle to apologize to the fucking chicken.

I have a feeling that's not what the PMer actually said, lol.

Well shit. This is why people shouldn't PM!