You've received great advice here and you are handling this with more maturity than he deserves so I will just add here that I'm sorry you are dealing with this.
I really do wish the best for you and I really do believe only you know what is best for yor family. It's your life, etc.
But I will be an ass for a second: why in the world would you stay married to this man? What could he say that would make you feel better? You really think therapy can save things? Could you really trust him again?
Everyone is being so pc and nice. I think you need to get your shit together and Get the fuck out.
The reason I'm being 'pc' and nice is because it's easy to tell someone else to leave their husband and get out, but I'm not the one who has to deal with the fallout. Divorce sucks, and it really, really sucks when you have kids. The majority of women end up worse off financially after a divorce, for example, and that's not even getting into the emotional aspects. I'm not saying that it's not worth it sometimes - certainly living with a man you can't trust has a high cost - but I'm not going to just flat out tell someone else "this is what you should do" when I'm not the one who has to pick up the pieces. Plus, none of us know the whole story of their marriage - only she does.
AE, i can only say that you sound exceptionally reasonable considering the circumstances. Hugs to you.
I really do wish the best for you and I really do believe only you know what is best for yor family. It's your life, etc.
But I will be an ass for a second: why in the world would you stay married to this man? What could he say that would make you feel better? You really think therapy can save things? Could you really trust him again?
Everyone is being so pc and nice. I think you need to get your shit together and Get the fuck out.
The reason I'm being 'pc' and nice is because it's easy to tell someone else to leave their husband and get out, but I'm not the one who has to deal with the fallout. Divorce sucks, and it really, really sucks when you have kids. The majority of women end up worse off financially after a divorce, for example, and that's not even getting into the emotional aspects. I'm not saying that it's not worth it sometimes - certainly living with a man you can't trust has a high cost - but I'm not going to just flat out tell someone else "this is what you should do" when I'm not the one who has to pick up the pieces. Plus, none of us know the whole story of their marriage - only she does.
AE, i can only say that you sound exceptionally reasonable considering the circumstances. Hugs to you.
Post by explorer2001 on Sept 3, 2012 15:19:26 GMT -5
Ok so I skipped most of the replies. Here's my two cents. I've been through it (without kids). I found piles of evidence of my ex's affair (I don't know if there was more than one), I found his porn collection (not normal porn, kids, gang rapes, seriously sick stuff), I found his reprimands from his former job and discovered why he was fired, I found his financial aid termination due to insufficient academic progress after I paid for him to go back to school and supported him, etc. When it first happens, you want to dig, you want to know, but really you never can know. No matter what you find, you have been betrayed. No matter what he reveals, his behavior shows now that it won't be the whole truth. Even if somehow it were, you still can't know everything. There will be missing details.
Ultimately knowing doesn't change anything, it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't make it better or easier. Ultimately I had to give up trying to.understand. I had to.give up trying to know because I'd never be inside his head to know why he did what he did. Ultimately I don't want to know the level of fucked up that it takes to.get turned on by violence, children, etc. or that justifies the abuse and hell he put me through.
What I needed to know and what I suspect you need to know is if you are safe and if not how you can get safe: emotionally, physically (get an STD test, are you and your kids safe in his vacinity, etc), financially (protect your accounts, create your own accounts, can you afford the bills, can you get child support, can you be held responsible for what he does, etc).
I'm do sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself and your kids. I wish I could help more but I can promise while it is hard, you are not responsible for fixing him and you can have an amazing life after. Hugs.
I really do wish the best for you and I really do believe only you know what is best for yor family. It's your life, etc.
But I will be an ass for a second: why in the world would you stay married to this man? What could he say that would make you feel better? You really think therapy can save things? Could you really trust him again?
Everyone is being so pc and nice. I think you need to get your shit together and Get the fuck out.
The reason I'm being 'pc' and nice is because it's easy to tell someone else to leave their husband and get out, but I'm not the one who has to deal with the fallout. Divorce sucks, and it really, really sucks when you have kids. The majority of women end up worse off financially after a divorce, for example, and that's not even getting into the emotional aspects. I'm not saying that it's not worth it sometimes - certainly living with a man you can't trust has a high cost - but I'm not going to just flat out tell someone else "this is what you should do" when I'm not the one who has to pick up the pieces. Plus, none of us know the whole story of their marriage - only she does.
AE, i can only say that you sound exceptionally reasonable considering the circumstances. Hugs to you.
While I do think that deciding whether to stay and work on the marriage or leave is completely dependent on each individual situation and person, it's also not necessarily better for the kids to automatically decide to stay within a shitty marriage. Of course, only ae can decide whether her marriage is worth fighting for or saving, but there are many many marriages that aren't. especially when the cheating spouse is still lying and not being forthcoming with information. And trying to make it work just for the sake of it or "for the kids" is not beneficial to anyone.
Post by explorer2001 on Sept 3, 2012 15:35:14 GMT -5
The whole for the sake of the kids thing makes me sick. I have seen it used against people who leave so many times. There are so many studies that show it is better for the kids to have a safe stable loving home with one parent than a chaotic scary home with two parents. Removing the kids from a bad situation, bad role model, bad example of how to treat people/their partner can be a huge service. Not saying its always true, nothing is always true. But its just awful how this is used to shame people into staying.
The reason I'm being 'pc' and nice is because it's easy to tell someone else to leave their husband and get out, but I'm not the one who has to deal with the fallout. Divorce sucks, and it really, really sucks when you have kids. The majority of women end up worse off financially after a divorce, for example, and that's not even getting into the emotional aspects. I'm not saying that it's not worth it sometimes - certainly living with a man you can't trust has a high cost - but I'm not going to just flat out tell someone else "this is what you should do" when I'm not the one who has to pick up the pieces. Plus, none of us know the whole story of their marriage - only she does.
AE, i can only say that you sound exceptionally reasonable considering the circumstances. Hugs to you.
While I do think that deciding whether to stay and work on the marriage or leave is completely dependent on each individual situation and person, it's also not necessarily better for the kids to automatically decide to stay within a shitty marriage. Of course, only ae can decide whether her marriage is worth fighting for or saving, but there are many many marriages that aren't. especially when the cheating spouse is still lying and not being forthcoming with information. And trying to make it work just for the sake of it or "for the kids" is not beneficial to anyone.
Well I didn't say that she (or anyone) should stay together for the kids, just that divorce really, really sucks when kids are involved. It sucks for the kids and if your spouse is vindictive, it can make a difficult divorce far more bitter when custody of children is being fought over.
The situations in which I tend to think - as a broad generalization - people should try to stay together 'for the kids' are when spouses are "just not happy" - not when there are abuse, substance abuse, infidelity, disrespect etc. type of issues.
I think what TTT is trying to say is that there are many factors that go into making a decision like this and it isn't as simple as "just leave the bum" or "stay for the kids."
I'm sure OP is reading up a lot, but if I recall, if the two can be adults to each other and at least live as roommates, it's better logistically/ financially to stay in the house until everything is hashed out and one spouse is either bought out or the house is sold.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 3, 2012 16:34:50 GMT -5
I agree with ttt - while it's easy for me to sit behind a computer and without knowing anything about AE, say DTMFA, I also know from personal experience how devastating, both emotionally and financially, divorce can be. XH and I had probably the most amicable separation and divorce in history and it still caused me to spend months depressed, having nightmares, having panic attacks, and begging my family for help so that I wouldn't end up completely swamped with bills. And if there is any part of OP who feels she might be able to make this work, and she wants to do so, I am not going to think she's doing the wrong thing. I am not walking in her shoes. I have enough going on in my own.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I think there's a massive difference between omg, divorce sucks so think really hard about whether or not you want to end this marriage and dude, this man is a serious and like serial cheater, gtfo. I'm not sure there's any information here that makes it worth staying with a man who would behave like this for such a long period of time then bring his ass home every day like it was nothing.
That being said, it's not as easy as just putting his shit on the lawn and torching it. Divorce takes time. And I don't just mean the legalities. I mean the thought process it takes to go from waking up one morning thinking you have a wonder marriage to knowing exactly how your life will be post divorce.
I think the OP is being smart here. If I may be so bold to say so, I don't think she's going to stay in this marriage. I don't think it will be today or tomorrow or even next week. But it sounds to me like it will happen eventually. I think she just needs time to put the pieces together and I think counseling and the support of her friends and perhaps even us will help her to get through it even if I'm wrong.
It took years to build this marriage, a series of deliberate and perhaps not so deliberate steps to build the life she has. It's going to take similar deliberation to end it, if that's how things go.
Post by iammalcolmx on Sept 3, 2012 18:03:09 GMT -5
Because I don't live in their house and am not the OP so even though I would like to get on a plane and participate in an ass whipping GTG I don't have the right to tell the OP to leave him. This has been a hell of a weekend of a weekend for her. Unless someone is beating you, you can't make ratinal decisions when you are out of sorts.
Post by iammalcolmx on Sept 3, 2012 18:07:40 GMT -5
Agreed HAB but that is when I would have no issue saying get out now. In a situation like the OP's she doesn't appear to be in danger so she has more time to plan.
Agreed HAB but that is when I would have no issue saying get out now. In a situation like the OP's she doesn't appear to be in danger so she has more time to plan.
Im so sorry AE. I will only say that I relied on a couple posters here to help me keep it together through my divorce and for several months prior when I wasnt sure what we were going to do. They were invaluable to me and I think Ive handled it all well only because of the support of those I hadnt planned on just stepping up. Please reach out and feel the love and support from others around you. I would be glad to speak privately with you and will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
There are so many studies that show it is better for the kids to have a safe stable loving home with one parent than a chaotic scary home with two parents.
Those aren't the only two choices. The third is to have a stable, loving home with both parents, even after one reveals his douchetasticness. It's possible to do if both spouses are willing and able to work through this. WorriedAE is trying to decide if it's still possible for her situation. I grant it's unlikely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible and certainly doesn't mean she has to decide right this minute. I don't think anyone is trying to shame her for considering staying. We'd all love to torch this assclown's face and we'd all get her back if she left him. We're just saying we'd also support her for trying to make it work b/c we get how difficult the decision is.
Right now I'm still in shock. I don't know if the marriage can be saved. I really don't know. But I owe it to myself and to my children to figure out if it's possible to move past this. Some couples do move past it. I'm in contact with a family friend right now whose husband had an affair, they worked it out, and she says their marriage is stronger than ever, so I do believe that it's possible for some people. I just don't know if it's possible for us yet because this is all so new.
I know everyone is saying DTMFA, and I still may, but I need to sort through a lot of stuff before I make any kind of decision.
Post by copzgirl1171 on Sept 3, 2012 20:07:23 GMT -5
WAE, you are doing an amazing job digesting all of this. Remain true to yourself and your children right now. There isn't anything more important than that right now. *hugs*
I really do wish the best for you and I really do believe only you know what is best for yor family. It's your life, etc.
But I will be an ass for a second: why in the world would you stay married to this man? What could he say that would make you feel better? You really think therapy can save things? Could you really trust him again?
Everyone is being so pc and nice. I think you need to get your shit together and Get the fuck out.
Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree, but since I've traveled down this road, it sounds real easy to say well just get the hell out now. That's the advice I'd give if he were blacking her eyes.
What I found for myself was that although my exH did some seriously wrong shit, I couldn't end the marriage until I felt my exH was given a chance to rectify what he did. In AE's case, if she doesn't find out what went wrong and give her H the chance to make things right, she won't be able to move forward. She can't sit around playing what ifs in her head. When you get out, you need to be dayum sure that you're done. If not, you are in on again, off again mode for a very long while.
As my good friend told me, you'll know when you're done. You'll be sick and tired of being sick and tired. Whatever she decides, she'll need to be certain of her choice.
AE - good luck hon. You're going to need it. I know many people have said PM me if you need an ear, but please feel free to PM me if you want. I've been in your shoes before so if you need anything hit me up. (hugs)
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 3, 2012 20:35:15 GMT -5
One more thing I want to say - this board helped me tremendously when I went through my divorce. Even though I fucked up just as royally as my ex did, the posters here showed support anyway. My point in saying this is, please know that we will love and support you regardless of what decision you made. Even if you just need to rant and vent, it's okay. I have total confidence that we will help you however we can.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
michellebelle can't log on from her phone, but she wanted me to post this for her: I didn't catch who worriedae is but I feel desperate to tell her to pull together all their financial records and a significant sum of money asap in case he leaves and she needs the cash to pay bills, etc. My step dad left my mom and tried to scam her and she had no records because he took them ALL. She got lucky that she found some really important records in an old tote bag and folded into a book but didn't tell him until after he tried to screw her royally in court. He would have walked away with their most valuable property and assets and had been planning that for some time and she had NO CLUE. They were married 15 yrs.
Pixy - thanks for posting that!
AE - My step-dad evidently cheated half way through their marriage. My mom caught him and he did everything your husband is doing right now. This was her 3rd marriage and I was heavily invested in his family as was she, so cutting ties was going to be super painful and complicated. She really loved him and wanted to make it work. So she forgave him and was watchful for a couple of years and then let it go. He started cheating again a few years later but was just so much better about hiding it. And he set up the bills so he was paying the mortgage on their cheaper but more valuable property (higher appraisal/resale potential). She paid the mortgage on their main home (stagnant value). He took a home equity loan out on the main home to spruce up the second home - she never thought twice. They paid bills out of a joint account but each had "spending money" accounts that they paid the 2 mortgages out of. After about 5 years of establishing that he paid for the more valuable home he got caught - the husband of the chick he was cheating with came to their main home and waited outside for my mom to get home. He found out and while she was at work the next day he moved all his stuff out along with all the paper records of their bills. So if you looked at the bank statements it looked like he owned the more valuable property. They didn't have a record that it was her inheritance from her parents that put the downpayment down on the house. He was going to walk with it. Then she found some papers stuffed in the tote bag they had taken to the bank, which was stuffed in a corner in the closet, and a copy of other paperwork folded in a book on a shelf - two random irresponsible places to put paperwork that saved his ass. She had a very smart lawyer that allowed him enough rope to hang himself and he did, so she walked away with at least half - he was going to leave her destitute and after 15 years together couldn't care less. He was cheating on her when I got married (thank God my brother walked me down the aisle). He was cheating on her when he helped me throw her 50th bday party and when I brought my daughter into the world which he loved on like his granddaughter. My daughter was about 3 months old when he got caught. He truly was leading a double life and when he got found out that second time he thought he had built himself a solid foundation to set himself up - and fuck her.
Not saying your ex is like this. But he sounds like a sex addict which is what my step-dad was. And my step-dad said all the same things.
I think if you do want to reconcile the marriage (and I can understand being in love just a few weeks ago with no freakin' idea this was going on and being bewildered now), you need to ask him to put his faith in YOU and set up an account with your name on it only, into which most of his paycheck goes and bills are paid from there. YOU pay the bills. He gets "fun money" in another account but you then take another portion of that money and put it away for 6 months of expenses if you don't have them already in an account that ONLY you can touch. You build yourself a nest egg so if you forgive him and you work on it and he does it again, you can kick his ass out. And IF he doesn't ever do it again, it won't hurt either of you to have that nestegg if anything happens.
I'm so sorry you are going through this and I agree with the other people that you are showing such a level head and such grace right now. Just remember he has been caring about himself and his own needs for months. It's time to care about your needs and your kids needs first just like he has been all this time, and that doesn't mean you don't love him or you won't really try to forgive him (if that is what you end up deciding). It's just being smart because he BETRAYED you significantly.
I'm pulling his credit report to verify that there are no other cards out there. He handed over the "secret" AmEx yesterday. The vehicles and the house are in both of our names, and I handle all of the finances so I know what's going on in terms of the financial picture. I even knew about the AmEx - I just didn't know that he'd charged anything on it until I caught him.
I'm pulling his credit report to verify that there are no other cards out there. He handed over the "secret" AmEx yesterday. The vehicles and the house are in both of our names, and I handle all of the finances so I know what's going on in terms of the financial picture. I even knew about the AmEx - I just didn't know that he'd charged anything on it until I caught him.
Well, that's good news, and I'm sure you've had very little of that over the past few days.
I pulled his credit report for one of the credit bureaus. The 'secret' AmEx is on there. That damn thing had a 10K limit on it. I'm SO glad I found out about it now before he charged more on it. There are no other accounts open that I don't know about, which confirms what he told me. I plan to space out the free credit requests over the next few months so I can make sure he doesn't open anything else.