First, thank you for all of the support and the PMs. I really do appreciate it.
I drove around for a long time yesterday while I talked to my mom and got some clarity. I also talked to a friend who has been through a messy divorce, and she gave me some very practical advice.
Last night I demanded full disclosure from my H, saying that I had a right to know exactly what went on, and that if he wasn't willing to be honest with me, I didn't know if we could make this work. He was VERY reluctant to tell me anything, insisting that he'd rather talk about it in front of the therapist. He's absolutely in CYA mode - he told me Friday that he'd only been in contact with that one woman since May, but I have proof from his own email that it was going on as early as last fall. He then admitted it had at least been going on then, but he claims it's not been more than a year.
I asked him specifically on Friday if a work-related day trip he'd made was legit. He said it was. I confronted him last night saying that I found no proof of that trip in his email, and he confessed then that he'd spent the day with her instead.
I asked specifically both Friday and last night if there was anyone else, and he said no, just that one woman. I paid for some reverse phone lookups this morning, and he's been texting heavily with ANOTHER woman for more than a year. We save all of our cell phone bills for tax purposes because some of that is deductible as a work expense, so I've got years of phone bills to comb through before our therapy appointment. I'm not planning to say anything to him about it until the therapy appointment because I know he'll just deny it, and I want the therapist to call him on it. Note: we've already seen this therapist a few times for stuff related to the kids.
I told him point blank last night that I was willing to work it out with him if he was completely honest with me. If he can't be, then I'm done. CYA isn't going to cut it with me. I have a right to know what the hell he's been doing.
I'm kicking myself for confronting him Friday night because I should have taken more time to scour his computer and his web history. I hate that I didn't do that now because he's deleted a bunch of shit. He's also scrubbed his phone of contacts, texts, photos, etc.
I told him the only reason I haven't kicked him out is because of the kids, but they're already picking up on the stress.
I do think it's good that you already have plans to see a therapist, and one who already knows your family. But hopefully that will bring some clarity to you, perhaps a wake-up call for him. But wow. I think dude has some major reckoning to do with you, with the kids, and he'd better be abstaining from any communications that aren't 100% work or family related.
He may have deleted a lot more evidence but you already found quite enough to realize your H has betrayed you.
If I can be realistic about this, I'm just not getting the vibe that he really actually wants to work things out, although obviously we're only hearing one side of the story. He's been confronted with ample evidence and is still denying things and covering up his behavior. I know everyone reacts differently, but he just doesn't sound remorseful. If you sense that he has been, then feel free to ignore my comment about it because I know stuff like that may not necessarily translate well through the internet.
And while you don't have to answer, I do have a question. In your initial post, you mentioned that you have a satisfying sex life. Has he ever expressed any dissatisfaction with your sex life? Because IMO, if he just decided to find other women as a result of sexual dissatisfaction instead of communicating any problems with his own wife in hopes to resolve anything going on, that is huge and not good news.
I really really wish you the best of luck with counseling and with whatever decision you make. Not only do I feel awful for you, but I feel awful that your kids are starting to pick up on things. And I'm glad you have a support system.
Post by GailGoldie on Sept 2, 2012 11:12:55 GMT -5
I'm so sorry about all of it.
But it certainly doesn't sound like he's ever going to be truthful. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth... and honestly - you either work things out knowing that he cheated (doesn't really matter all the details) or you don't.... you have to decide what YOU want to deal with. You will likely never believe a word that comes out of his mouth - with good reason b/c he continues to lie knowing you know a lot already.
He may have deleted a lot more evidence but you already found quite enough to realize your H has betrayed you.
If I can be realistic about this, I'm just not getting the vibe that he really actually wants to work things out, although obviously we're only hearing one side of the story. He's been confronted with ample evidence and is still denying things and covering up his behavior. I know everyone reacts differently, but he just doesn't sound remorseful. If you sense that he has been, then feel free to ignore my comment about it because I know stuff like that may not necessarily translate well through the internet.
And while you don't have to answer, I do have a question. In your initial post, you mentioned that you have a satisfying sex life. Has he ever expressed any dissatisfaction with your sex life? Because IMO, if he just decided to find other women as a result of sexual dissatisfaction instead of communicating any problems with his own wife in hopes to resolve anything going on, that is huge and not good news.
I really really wish you the best of luck with counseling and with whatever decision you make. Not only do I feel awful for you, but I feel awful that your kids are starting to pick up on things. And I'm glad you have a support system.
In the past month or so, I would describe our sex life as very good. Not like "new relationship, have sex all the time" wonderful, but very good, multi-orgasmic sex. We did go through a bit of a dry spell when our second child was a little younger, but I changed medications/bcp, saw a doctor, etc., and really went to a lot of effort to buy pretty lingerie, have sex more often, etc. There have been plenty of times when I've made overtures, and he's turned me down, saying he's too tired. He does work out a lot, but it made me feel like his exercise regime is more important than me.
As for whether he wants to work it out, I really don't know. He says he does. I asked him if it was because he didn't want to lose out on having someone around to pay his bills, cook his meals, clean his house, wash his clothes and raise his kids, or if he really wanted ME. He says he wants me, but deep down, I don't know that I believe him yet.
I can only imagine that someone who gets caught and is remorseful would immediately tell you everything and turn over his phone, computer, passwords, etc. to you. He doesn't sound remorseful to me. I'm curious what the point of being in CYA mode is now for him.
But it certainly doesn't sound like he's ever going to be truthful. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth... and honestly - you either work things out knowing that he cheated (doesn't really matter all the details) or you don't.... you have to decide what YOU want to deal with. You will likely never believe a word that comes out of his mouth - with good reason b/c he continues to lie knowing you know a lot already.
I agree with this. The fact that even after confronted, he has still lied and lied and lied AND that he deleted a whole bunch of things (so there's probably more that he's lying about) shows that he's not willing to be open and honest with you.
As for the things he's deleted - do you really need to know anything else? Would it matter if there were three other women? Would it matter if it had been going on for a year earlier than you thought? I know you probably want to know everything right now, because when you're cheated on you suddenly wonder what was lies and what was truth. But you have the information that matters - that he was unfaithful, that he actively sought it out, and that he's unwilling to be honest with you even when confronted with evidence.
I don't think that infidelity is necessarily a marriage ender - I think that some relationships are able to work through it and survive it and come out stronger on the other end. But it depends heavily on the circumstances and the people involved, and just from what you've told us, it does not sound like he's deeply remorseful about what happened or willing to take the steps necessary to regain your trust.
I would make an appointment with a lawyer to find out what your rights are and what you can start doing now to protect yourself in case you decide to leave him. You don't have to decide today (or ever) to end it, but given that he can't be trusted right now, I would try to get a handle on as many things as possible. And by taking control of something, it help give you a little bit of clarity and strength to help you decide how to proceed or process your emotions.
I'm so sorry you keep finding more details. Like pp's said, it doesn't sound like he's remorseful. I am glad that you have a good support system. I don't know how old your kids are but I hope they're young enough to not fully realize what's going on. ({) (})
It matters to me when this all started because he's talking about what he perceives to be the breakdown in our communication and in our marriage, and I'd like to know when that actually happened. I'm not responsible for the choices HE made in terms of having an affair, but if there is the possibility of working through it, then I need to know when this all happened and how that corresponded with what was going on with us. Yes, I know I'm driving myself crazy looking up info, but I need to know exactly what I'm dealing with. If he's been cheating on me for years with multiple women, then I'm not sure if I want to work through it, vs. one year with one or two women. Yes, I realize I'm splitting hairs here, but I've been with this man for almost a decade, and I'd like to know how many of those years were a total lie.
I would make an appointment with a lawyer to find out what your rights are and what you can start doing now to protect yourself in case you decide to leave him. You don't have to decide today (or ever) to end it, but given that he can't be trusted right now, I would try to get a handle on as many things as possible. And by taking control of something, it help give you a little bit of clarity and strength to help you decide how to proceed or process your emotions.
lots of hugs to you, AE.
I agree. If he's still lying, and he's capable of that kind of deception for so long, I think you need to protect yourself and your kids now. I know it sucks to add one more huge thing to the to-do list, but a lawyer would really benefit you IMO, regardless if you stay together or not. It must be so frustrating to see all the evidence gone now, but you know he did cheat, and you know he's lying. I think you still have enough evidence remaining to know what you're facing. I'm sure he's frantically deleting stuff b/c he KNOWS it looks so bad for him. Even though it's not helpful to repairing your relationship, he at least obviously feels guilty. I sincerely hope that translates into him not cheating anymore and being open to whatever the counselor will tell him.
I don't usually say things like this, but I don't know if I could ever believe a word that comes out of that man's mouth again. He's broken your trust and doesn't seem to be working on earning it back at.all.
However, I do hope he gets beyond this and gets his shit together and starts being upfront and honest with you.
It matters to me when this all started because he's talking about what he perceives to be the breakdown in our communication and in our marriage, and I'd like to know when that actually happened. I'm not responsible for the choices HE made in terms of having an affair, but if there is the possibility of working through it, then I need to know when this all happened and how that corresponded with what was going on with us. Yes, I know I'm driving myself crazy looking up info, but I need to know exactly what I'm dealing with. If he's been cheating on me for years with multiple women, then I'm not sure if I want to work through it, vs. one year with one or two women. Yes, I realize I'm splitting hairs here, but I've been with this man for almost a decade, and I'd like to know how many of those years were a total lie.
Also don't ever feel wrong or guilty for wanting more information. Your counselor can tell you when it's time to stop. Right now, if you want to know what happened and why, you're perfectly entitled.
But it certainly doesn't sound like he's ever going to be truthful. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth... and honestly - you either work things out knowing that he cheated (doesn't really matter all the details) or you don't.... you have to decide what YOU want to deal with. You will likely never believe a word that comes out of his mouth - with good reason b/c he continues to lie knowing you know a lot already.
I agree with this. The fact that even after confronted, he has still lied and lied and lied AND that he deleted a whole bunch of things (so there's probably more that he's lying about) shows that he's not willing to be open and honest with you.
As for the things he's deleted - do you really need to know anything else? Would it matter if there were three other women? Would it matter if it had been going on for a year earlier than you thought? I know you probably want to know everything right now, because when you're cheated on you suddenly wonder what was lies and what was truth. But you have the information that matters - that he was unfaithful, that he actively sought it out, and that he's unwilling to be honest with you even when confronted with evidence.
I don't think that infidelity is necessarily a marriage ender - I think that some relationships are able to work through it and survive it and come out stronger on the other end. But it depends heavily on the circumstances and the people involved, and just from what you've told us, it does not sound like he's deeply remorseful about what happened or willing to take the steps necessary to regain your trust.
I agree with ESF. I would meet with an attorney as well to find out what you have to do to protect yourself. It doesn't mean you are going to leave him, but if you are telling him you need him to be honest with you, and he's STILL lying to your face, as well as deleting a bunch of stuff...then that to me says he's not willing to do the one thing you're asking him to do right now. I think taking steps now to protect you and your kids is a smart step.
Other than that...lots of hugs. I hope counseling will help you get answers.
I'd like to stab him in the face for you, that way you wouldn't have to decide anything save for whether or not you wanted to dance on his damned grave.
What the fucking hell??
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I hope the therapist can bring you a measure of peace, regardless of what you decide.
You're already so, so strong and your kids are lucky to have you.
Post by thebulldog on Sept 2, 2012 12:00:47 GMT -5
i ditto the phone call to an attorney. also, if you have joint bank accounts I would change a password or figure out a way to protect joint funds at this point to avoid him clearing out an account.
you are a strong woman and you will be able to get through this.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 2, 2012 12:02:16 GMT -5
I'm so sad and angry for you. There's nothing I can add that hasn't been said. Please consider seeing a lawyer and tucking some money away for yourself so that if push comes to shove, you will be able to take care of yourself. You've been in my thoughts this weekend.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
Ditto everyone else, especially the one about changing the passwords to any joint checking accounts. I'd worry that if he's willing to keep lying and lying, even when being caught, he's thinking about an exit strategy.
Post by cookiemdough on Sept 2, 2012 12:19:36 GMT -5
He is probably scared the more you know the less chance for reconciliation. That being said it is no excuse for continuing to lie to you. Make sure you have copies of everything you have already found and ditto making some precautions for you financially. I am so sorry you are having to deal with all of this.
A friend recommended an attorney already. I'm calling her Tuesday morning.
My kids are young - one in early elementary, one younger than that.
I emptied out one bank account (which wasn't much) to pay for our child's preschool tuition. I took $500 out of the other account which was the most the ATM would let me withdraw. He must have gotten an alert on his phone or something because he called me about an hour later to ask if I'd taken that money out of the account and what my "intentions" were and whether I was coming back. I told him that if I was leaving, he'd know because I'd take the kids. I told him I took the money to make sure that if he cleaned out the bank account and left that I'd be able to feed our children.
He said he had no intention of leaving, and he reiterated that last night and said that he didn't want us to use our finances as a "weapon" which is easy for him to say since he's the one who makes the most money. My job wouldn't come close to paying the bills if he left, and he knows that.
Wow, I am so sorry. I don't know the rest of the story here, but really what more do I need to know? The man deserves a rollerskate buried swiftly into his groin.
I would visit the lawyer and then go directly to your ob/gyn from there.
I am very sorry you are going through this. I can see that you are reeling, and that is completely understandable. Please know that you do not need to make any decisions today. He's had plenty of time to get used to the idea of being a cheater, but you have just found out, and perhaps that is why you are so focused on determining exactly what was a lie. Take a little time to come to terms with the fact that your world was just turned upside down, talk to your therapist, lean on your family, and do what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids. I wouldn't be surprised if, after a while, the distinction between 1-2 women for a year and 3-4 women for 2 years won't seem so great to you, but you absolutely don't have to make that decision right now (and know that you may never have conclusive proof either way).