I think one of the things that bothers me most is the dismissive nature that folks have when POC discuss racial issues. Andf I mean I get it based from our discussions here, that white folks I sincerely believe, thought there was some real benefit in the "colorblind" ideology.
I mean - it sounds good. Live up to Dr. King's dream about being judged on the content of your character. But, as we can all see, that didn't stop discrimination. It evolved. No one sees obvious white supremacists (well except they are out protesting today) much anymore. But, it does nothing to address systemic issues which is the thing black folks are busy pointing out. Because of that, I imagine that it must take some serious steps to really hear what minorities are saying.
So, this dismissive action by white folks is really a slap in the face. It's "I don't believe you. I don't trust your experience. You're lying." I'll be honest, this was very much the reason that I let TTT know that I was tired of it. Tired of folks telling me - especially when you don't live in MY world - where race applies. C'mon man. All the times I have to fight stereotypes. All the times I see disparate treatment. It's disingenuous.
Yup, we were force-fed this ideal for a long time. Mostly in the Western US from what I can see, but likely elsewhere too. It was all about celebrating the differences and diversity while acting as Colorblind as possible in the 80's and 90's. So for like three generations - later Boomers, Gen Xers, and now Millenials it was "right" to be colorblind.
White Millennials are products of a failed lesson in colorblindness - This article hits home for me in particular. Everyone was special/diverse in the 80's and 90's so were taught to ignore someone's color to get past the overt racism, but it really just became covert racism that you learned. It's like three generations of complacency that is just slowly awakening. I can only speak for myself, but it seems that we don't even have the language and tools to describe what is so wrong with color-blindness to each other, so it's amazing to me that some white people want to police a black voice on the issues surrounding racism.
... Furthermore, with respect to this particular generation, the (white) Millennials, the education these young white people have received have left them ill-equipped to understand the nature of racism and subsequently supplied them analysis that won’t address the problem. As children of the multi-cultural 1980s and 90s, Millennials are fluent in colorblindness and diversity, while remaining illiterate in the language of anti-racism. This may not be the end of the world, if weren’t for the fact that Millennials don’t know the difference between the two.
To be fair, that’s not entirely their fault. They were taught by their elders, Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers, about how to think about race and racism. The lessons Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers gleaned from the Civil Rights era is that racism is matter of personal bigotry — racists hate people because of the color of their skin, or because they believe stereotypes about groups of people they’ve never met — not one of institutional discrimination and exploitation. The history Millennials have been taught is through that lens, with a specific focus on misunderstanding the message of Martin Luther King, Jr. Certainly, a world where we all loved one another would be ideal, where each person is seen as equal, where “the dream” of children of all different racial backgrounds holding hands with one another without prejudice is a reality. But Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers generally decided to ignore King’s diagnosis of the problem — white supremacy — and opted to make him a poster-child for a colorblind society, in which we simply ignore construct of race altogether and pray that it will disappear on its own. ...
I think one of the things that bothers me most is the dismissive nature that folks have when POC discuss racial issues. Andf I mean I get it based from our discussions here, that white folks I sincerely believe, thought there was some real benefit in the "colorblind" ideology.
I mean - it sounds good. Live up to Dr. King's dream about being judged on the content of your character. But, as we can all see, that didn't stop discrimination. It evolved. No one sees obvious white supremacists (well except they are out protesting today) much anymore. But, it does nothing to address systemic issues which is the thing black folks are busy pointing out. Because of that, I imagine that it must take some serious steps to really hear what minorities are saying.
So, this dismissive action by white folks is really a slap in the face. It's "I don't believe you. I don't trust your experience. You're lying." I'll be honest, this was very much the reason that I let TTT know that I was tired of it. Tired of folks telling me - especially when you don't live in MY world - where race applies. C'mon man. All the times I have to fight stereotypes. All the times I see disparate treatment. It's disingenuous.
"I didn't see it that way" "That's not the whole story" "There's got to be more to this story" "What did the alleged victim do to deserve it" "They had it coming" "Just another black on black crime" "We've got to let the justice system work" "Those people should be more involved in their community" "The way I see it". and my personal least favorite,"It's my opinion. I'm allowed to have more own opinion. Don't censor me!"
No fools, you don't get to have an opinion, or race issues, if it's just to use your voice to whitesplain what is and isn't racist to black folk. smh
I just feel so defeated when it comes to white fragility and whitesplaining.
For example, I have two cousins, they are sisters. K is black, H is white. They were raised together since birth. Sisters in every matter of the word. We are also a very close family. I was shocked when H said last week that ALL LIVES MATTERED in response to someone even commenting on BLM. My jaw fell and hit the ground. Her own SISTER tried to explain to her that the all lives matter movement is taking away from the black experience, etc. but she would not hear it.
Her birthday is next week and I made a donation in her name to BLM.
I am just so sick of white people telling poc that they are wrong, that they shouldn't be angry, that they are so lucky the way they are. the fuck? It is infuriating.
I lurk a lot, and haven't been around very long, but I truly did question whether or not to continue to post here when I saw a black woman being told to calm down recently, when 1) she appeared to me to be perfectly calm and 2) maybe I didn't check back enough, but there didn't seem to me to be that much outrage over it.
I unfriended a woman who I thought was my 10th grade best friend, but who was constantly questioning BLM on FB, told me the phrase should be black lives too, and a couple days later posted the most horrifyingly racist video of a black girl talking about all of the things wrong with black people.
In general, I'm beginning to feel like white fragility is an even bigger thing than I originally thought, though I am not aware what I personally, if anything, can do to affect change. I mean, I could go around telling people to get over themselves, but there comes a point when I'd like to shift my focus to taking care of my own mental health.
It was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen. I am sorry that even this board isn't a safe haven from that BS. I think a few people called it out. I know I commented on how ridiculous it was. I think that poster was a bit BEC to some people and they tend to ignore her.
I am not going to pretend like I never put my foot in my mouth on race issues, I do. And I am sorry. Like I mentioned, I have learned a lot from this board. We are all trying to do better here, I promise. Stick around, there are some amazing women on this board, particularly women of color that I think you will enjoy being a part of. But I do understand if you need to step away. Take care of yourself first.
Ah, okay!! As a newbie, I had no idea, so I'm sitting here, like, really? That's all they're going to say?
It's clear there are solid, long standing relationships on this board, which is difficult to step into as a newb, but I do enjoy the political discourse here, so I'm sure I will stick around.
Ah, okay!! As a newbie, I had no idea, so I'm sitting here, like, really? That's all they're going to say?
I's clear there are solid, long standing relationships on this board, which is difficult to step into as a newb, but I do enjoy the political discourse here, so I'm sure I will stick around.
She's been handed her ass before on almost the same subject. There was a giant intersectional feminism thread where, literally, she had to be told to shut the fuck up.
Please do stick around! I've liked seeing your input.
I have jumbled thoughts. Mostly frustration with my people. But I wanted to check in because I feel like I've been doing a lot of silent reading along in posts of actual substance and not contributing .
The pieve posted about how gen xers and adjacent all got taught that we should be colorblind really speaks to me though. I struggle with finding the language to talk a about race. It just feels taboo or something. And I know my mama did her damnedst to raise me right on this issues, but she's not perfect and then god knows the place I grew up was white AF and full of bullshit.
I am hopeful I can do better by my kids, thanks in large part to the education I've gotten here. Trying to just keep on learning and not let shit slide when I see it from loved ones.
Ah, okay!! As a newbie, I had no idea, so I'm sitting here, like, really? That's all they're going to say?
I's clear there are solid, long standing relationships on this board, which is difficult to step into as a newb, but I do enjoy the political discourse here, so I'm sure I will stick around.
I'm new, too, and super wary of stepping in it.
I'm really grateful for this board and the sanity it has given me in this election. That being said, I cannot begin to imagine the exhaustion caused by people expecting POC to explain their experience (in the world, on this board, wherever). I'm grateful for what I have learned and for a place like this where I think the conversation is (mostly) thoughtful. Living in Memphis (after DC and Philly) was really eye-opening for me.
How does "colored people" just slip out of someone's mouth accidentally?
I know, makes me wonder what they are saying at home, and behind closed doors.
The fragile white folks are responding with, "If saying colored people is racist, then tell that to the NAACP". Um, don't you think there's a different shade of meaning when the term is used by the oppressor, vs. the oppressed? But this is where we are in 2016, people can say Colored People on air with little more than a hand slap.
Oh yes, the "but what about the NAACP?" response. So tired. Why people refuse to acknowledge historical context I'll never understand.
How does "colored people" just slip out of someone's mouth accidentally?
Because she probably says it all the time in her private life, as do the rest of her white friends, or she thought she could say it because she didn't see the difference between that term and POC. She also probably doesn't care to understand that words matter, and the terminology matters, because IT DOESN'T AFFECT HER.
Post by cookiemdough on Aug 22, 2016 17:19:07 GMT -5
I guess what I have never understood about "the colorblind" approach is that it is not at all colorblind. It means you don't speak about race but it has not resulted in equal treatment of POC. So people aren't colorblind because you DO see color you just don't directly address how color impacts your preconceived notions or attitude towards minorities.
How does "colored people" just slip out of someone's mouth accidentally?
Because she probably says it all the time in her private life, as do the rest of her white friends, or she thought she could say it because she didn't see the difference between that term and POC. She also probably doesn't care to understand that words matter, and the terminology matters, because IT DOESN'T AFFECT HER.
I have had people ask me this in frustration when I have given them "the look" or asked WTF when they used the term "colored people."
I actually had someone say, "grammatically they are exactly the same and saying, "colored people" is more efficient than "people of color."
To that person I actually mustered up, "Well me telling you to go fuck yourself is also more efficient than trying to explain it to you."
I think if anyone doesn't understand the difference they are being purposely obtuse or have lived under a rock.
Ah, okay!! As a newbie, I had no idea, so I'm sitting here, like, really? That's all they're going to say?
I's clear there are solid, long standing relationships on this board, which is difficult to step into as a newb, but I do enjoy the political discourse here, so I'm sure I will stick around.
I'm new, too, and super wary of stepping in it.
I'm really grateful for this board and the sanity it has given me in this election. That being said, I cannot begin to imagine the exhaustion caused by people expecting POC to explain their experience (in the world, on this board, wherever). I'm grateful for what I have learned and for a place like this where I think the conversation is (mostly) thoughtful. Living in Memphis (after DC and Philly) was really eye-opening for me.
I have jumbled thoughts. Mostly frustration with my people. But I wanted to check in because I feel like I've been doing a lot of silent reading along in posts of actual substance and not contributing .
The pieve posted about how gen xers and adjacent all got taught that we should be colorblind really speaks to me though. I struggle with finding the language to talk a about race. It just feels taboo or something. And I know my mama did her damnedst to raise me right on this issues, but she's not perfect and then god knows the place I grew up was white AF and full of bullshit.
I am hopeful I can do better by my kids, thanks in large part to the education I've gotten here. Trying to just keep on learning and not let shit slide when I see it from loved ones.
I feel like I could have written this post. Well, all except the part about kids.
I remember proudly telling people I was colorblind in the 80s and 90s, because that was like saying, "See how non-prejudiced I am? I don't care about your skin color!" In high school, that honestly felt like the right thing to do. Growing up in my super white (almost white trash but not exactly redneck) school district, I can recall maybe a dozen black students from 6th to 12th grade. All the black boys were athletes and were pretty popular, but I still heard people say terrible things. It upset me so much but as a teen I did not have the verbiage or strength to speak up. My parents weren't much help either.
Right now I'm trying to do a lot better about respecting others' space. While I would never say I thought someone was lying or exaggerating their struggles, I do need to remember to step back and let people have their feelings. I'm a fixer, and I want to help people! Then I remind myself it's not my job to soothe or minimize.
One thing I try to point out to my white friends and family (and J's Hispanic family) is that microaggressions are real, and how insidious they can be. Some people really do still believe that the civil rights dream has been achieved because blacks aren't being lynched or waking up to burning crosses on their lawns. Explaining institutional racism to my 66 year old mother has been frustrating, but ultimately helpful.
I guess what I have never understood about "the colorblind" approach is that it is not at all colorblind. It means you don't speak about race but it has not resulted in equal treatment of POC. So people aren't colorblind because you DO see color you just don't directly address how color impacts your preconceived notions or attitude towards minorities.
This is just my experience in my family as I was growing up. The "colorblind" approach seemed to be for my parents and their siblings and cousins a step above what they had grown up experiencing from their older relatives being vocally terrible in how they spoke of people of color and race issues. Like it was enough for them to be ok with saying we should be colorblind thinking that would sink into us kids as not even registering racial differences. Them teaching colorblindness would somehow have us skip by the preconceived notions and they wouldn't have to answer tough questions. To them it was like "awesome! My kids will see everyone as equal and even if they don't at least I've told them not to talk about race so I don't have to come up with all the answers and hopefully by the time they're grown, if everyone does this, the world will have forgotten what all those differences were about anyway" I think...but maybe that doesn't make sense or isn't at all how it went down. I'm sorry, I'm having trouble getting my thoughts clear on this.
Post by wesleycrusher4ever on Aug 22, 2016 18:37:43 GMT -5
Right after Simone Manuel won the gold medal, I posted a meme about how it was a big deal because they drained a pool when Dorothy Danridge put her toe in it. And I had a white woman message me that "I was going to be a single mother" because "your white husband is going to leave you for being a angry black woman" she kept messaging me until I blocked her. I'm 6 months pregnant and that shit made me cry. And I was mad, I'm not responsible for his white fragility or anyone else's!!
Right after Simone Manuel won the gold medal, I posted a meme about how it was a big deal because they drained a pool when Dorothy Danridge put her toe in it. And I had a white woman message me that "I was going to be a single mother" because "your white husband is going to leave you for being a angry black woman" she kept messaging me until I blocked her. I'm 6 months pregnant and that shit made me cry. And I was mad, I'm not responsible for his white fragility or anyone else's!!
Wait, was this a rando or someone you know? Regardless, that's an insane thing to tell someone.
And that meme was perfectly on point, so duck her.
Right after Simone Manuel won the gold medal, I posted a meme about how it was a big deal because they drained a pool when Dorothy Danridge put her toe in it. And I had a white woman message me that "I was going to be a single mother" because "your white husband is going to leave you for being a angry black woman" she kept messaging me until I blocked her. I'm 6 months pregnant and that shit made me cry. And I was mad, I'm not responsible for his white fragility or anyone else's!!
Right after Simone Manuel won the gold medal, I posted a meme about how it was a big deal because they drained a pool when Dorothy Danridge put her toe in it. And I had a white woman message me that "I was going to be a single mother" because "your white husband is going to leave you for being a angry black woman" she kept messaging me until I blocked her. I'm 6 months pregnant and that shit made me cry. And I was mad, I'm not responsible for his white fragility or anyone else's!!
I lurk a lot, and haven't been around very long, but I truly did question whether or not to continue to post here when I saw a black woman being told to calm down recently, when 1) she appeared to me to be perfectly calm and 2) maybe I didn't check back enough, but there didn't seem to me to be that much outrage over it.
I unfriended a woman who I thought was my 10th grade best friend, but who was constantly questioning BLM on FB, told me the phrase should be black lives too, and a couple days later posted the most horrifyingly racist video of a black girl talking about all of the things wrong with black people.
In general, I'm beginning to feel like white fragility is an even bigger thing than I originally thought, though I am not aware what I personally, if anything, can do to affect change. I mean, I could go around telling people to get over themselves, but there comes a point when I'd like to shift my focus to taking care of my own mental health.
1. Please stay. You are very much welcome to share your posts and experiences.
2. God bless pixy0stix , jojoandleo , and all the others who caught on to the bull shit in that thread. What's crazy, is I was at home, rolling on the floor laughing like a maniac while witnessing the foolishness. Despite having a mouth (and keystroke) of a sailor, I don't get mad easily (unless one of my friends is getting picked on), I have a very thick skin, and I crack jokes all the time.
So, when I was told to control my rage, I was like:
Don't worry. Old girl has been calling me angry for faaaaaaaaar longer. Although, she isn't the only one so, you know.
And it amuses me from her in particular because she is HELLA angry all by her lonesome. We speak all of the time about the entitled white man, angry at his displacement in the world but I really am starting to wonder about middle and upper class white women. There is something really wrong there.
Post by wesleycrusher4ever on Aug 22, 2016 19:23:35 GMT -5
It started with a public comment: With all due respect. That was then and this is now. Celebrate her success and stop bringing up the past.(from her) and she just wouldn't stop commenting on others' comments about her response.
And all of my friends were like hell no and I was like hell no and said this; (Name) It's so frustrating to me because we spent 2 years in class discussing and learning these topics. Like, we started from "What is Privilege" and went from there. It's just makes me think sometimes people don't care and just want to be willfully ignorant because they get more rewards or privileges that way. Maybe I'm naive, but it hurt my feelings. Of all people that should know better, it's you.
And that's when she took it to private message. I told my mom and my mom messaged her a polite but stern "leave my 30 year old baby alone." It just shook me up because I didn't expect anything like that.