As a kid my mom ENGRAINED in me that "if you hear this word" you are NEVER TO REPEAT IT. It's not ok to even WHISPER IT. It is not ok to WRITE IT out. It is not ok to say it in the privacy of your bedroom just because it's a bad word that you've never been able to utter before and you are a stupid kid who swears behind closed doors. She explained that this word defines the oppression of so many, and is is the definition of hate. A power trip to the extreme.
I vividly remember my mom pausing a movie, shaking her finger at the screen, and KNOWING not to ever touch that word. Ever. And the TV being turned off, VHS thrown back into the case and being returned to the rental store.
My mom also pulled some documents out of her desk that night. Historical family documents. A will from an ancestor stating which family members were to inherit which slaves. PEOPLE. These are REAL people. Do you know how messed up that is? That my family actually owned people? And not only owned them, but that even in death these PEOPLE were not free? That they were passed on for generations? THIS IS THE SHIT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY. A place so many ran to for freedom, yet immediately began to oppress others. Even today we should be SO ASHAMED. Generations have been affected. These papers. She shook them in my face. "THIS IS WHY WE DON'T ASSOCIATED WITH THIS WORD." We can't forget. Because POC will never live on this soil and have the luxury of "forgetting". I am so ashamed. And I share my story because so many people don't "get it". Even if your ancestors haven't been here for even a generation. They got to step foot on this American soil over here, blink, and blend right in.
My mom. The narcotic addict who is a convicted felon. SHE GETS IT.
I'm a blue eyed blonde, pale as a ghost white woman, who grew up in Maine, FWIW, with ancestors in the north and south immigrating as far back as the early 1600's. And when I hear that word, I want to fucking VOMIT.
SHIT, tamb.
YOU NEED TO START GRASPING. It's not a matter of "oh I read somewhere that the word *insert some scholarly reason why it's progressive to use it*" ... Why are you retaining BS, and not whatever life experience exposed you to "DON'T EVER SAY THAT WORD"??
What do you honestly think the EMOTIONS are for POC who are subjected to reading such a word? Think it makes them comfortable?
Shoes. Put your feet in someone else's for a change.
Honestly, I think this is the issue. I don't think most/many white people truly have this visceral reaction to the word. And even when POC try to explain it to them, because the 'can't relate', it somehow doesn't compute. It's the 'well, it doesn't bother me, how much could it possibly bother you' attitude. This is why I said I was both surprised and not surprised. I was surprised because I would think, that this soon after so many discussions around race, I would have thought posters would be more careful, more thoughtful, more reflective, in their postings. But not surprised, because really, I think too many people don't really get it. They say they do, but they don't.
I think it is great your mother ingrained this into you, and, that as a result, you have the visceral reaction that you do. I honestly can't say that my parents even spoke of the word to me, and while I knew it was wrong to say (somehow???, no recollection of how/why), I can remember reading a thread on CEP a few years ago that really truly gave me new insight into it.
Honestly, I think this is the issue. I don't think most/many white people truly have this visceral reaction to the word. And even when POC try to explain it to them, because the 'can't relate', it somehow doesn't compute. It's the 'well, it doesn't bother me, how much could it possibly bother you' attitude. This is why I said I was both surprised and not surprised. I was surprised because I would think, that this soon after so many discussions around race, I would have thought posters would be more careful, more thoughtful, more reflective, in their postings. But not surprised, because really, I think too many people don't really get it. They say they do, but they don't.
I think it is great your mother ingrained this into you, and, that as a result, you have the visceral reaction that you do. I honestly can't say that my parents even spoke of the word to me, and while I knew it was wrong to say (somehow???, no recollection of how/why), I can remember reading a thread on CEP a few years ago that really truly gave me new insight into it.
This makes me so sick, because everyone with white skin has a history of privilege. But I think you must be right. With so much family in the deep south my mom wanted to be damn sure that I knew what my roots were so history would not repeat itself.
These really are the stories that should be FRONT PAGE in our American history books. And they're not. Students can more easily grasp concepts when they can relate. Race is portrayed in such an abstract manner in textbooks. It's not fair to POC. Their history is distorted and overlooked in text.SaveSave
I am flabbergasted that 1. She wrote that. 2. She didn't take ample opportunity to edit it out at any point today. 3. No one pointed it out. What the fuck is wrong with you?!?!
I am still catching up but I have removed that word. I am not having it here. Apologies to our WOC posters that it sat there for that long.
I am flabbergasted that 1. She wrote that. 2. She didn't take ample opportunity to edit it out at any point today. 3. No one pointed it out. What the fuck is wrong with you?!?!
I am still catching up but I have removed that word. I am not having it here. Apologies to our WOC posters that it sat there for that long.
Honestly, I think this is the issue. I don't think most/many white people truly have this visceral reaction to the word. And even when POC try to explain it to them, because the 'can't relate', it somehow doesn't compute. It's the 'well, it doesn't bother me, how much could it possibly bother you' attitude. This is why I said I was both surprised and not surprised. I was surprised because I would think, that this soon after so many discussions around race, I would have thought posters would be more careful, more thoughtful, more reflective, in their postings. But not surprised, because really, I think too many people don't really get it. They say they do, but they don't.
I think it is great your mother ingrained this into you, and, that as a result, you have the visceral reaction that you do. I honestly can't say that my parents even spoke of the word to me, and while I knew it was wrong to say (somehow???, no recollection of how/why), I can remember reading a thread on CEP a few years ago that really truly gave me new insight into it.
WTF? This isn't an excuse or something that deserves rationalization. I'm shocked this is even a story worth sharing because it seems like an out, or a loophole in why people behave badly, much like the mental illness alibi. In America, white people know not to use that word. Everyone knows not to use that word on some level, unless they are black. White people, especially on this board, know using in public is grounds for being fired, fined (depending on you level of influence) and/ or publically shamed (unless you roll with bigots, and are a bigot by association). There is no, "I didn't know" type of wilful ignorance, with this word, in The States. People who use the word, willingly and freely, so it rolls as softly as rain, are doing so intentionally.
If you were raised otherwise, that says something about the people around you. If that's the norm where you're from, or where you reside, you have bigger issues you need to work on, immediately.
I never said they didn't know it wasn't wrong. I said they don't have as visceral a reaction to it as they should.
I don't know what story you are referring to when you say it isn't a story worth sharing.
WTF? This isn't an excuse or something that deserves rationalization. I'm shocked this is even a story worth sharing because it seems like an out, or a loophole in why people behave badly, much like the mental illness alibi. In America, white people know not to use that word. Everyone knows not to use that word on some level, unless they are black. White people, especially on this board, know using in public is grounds for being fired, fined (depending on you level of influence) and/ or publically shamed (unless you roll with bigots, and are a bigot by association). There is no, "I didn't know" type of wilful ignorance, with this word, in The States. People who use the word, willingly and freely, so it rolls as softly as rain, are doing so intentionally.
If you were raised otherwise, that says something about the people around you. If that's the norm where you're from, or where you reside, you have bigger issues you need to work on, immediately.
One of my parents is a legit racist and I have a visceral reaction to that word. Good lord. I hope nobody reading CloudBee's story gets the impression that they can cite their childhood and say "well I was never taught." You are a grown ass adult raising children in the year 2016 and your upbringing is not an excuse.
WTF? This isn't an excuse or something that deserves rationalization. I'm shocked this is even a story worth sharing because it seems like an out, or a loophole in why people behave badly, much like the mental illness alibi. In America, white people know not to use that word. Everyone knows not to use that word on some level, unless they are black. White people, especially on this board, know using in public is grounds for being fired, fined (depending on you level of influence) and/ or publically shamed (unless you roll with bigots, and are a bigot by association). There is no, "I didn't know" type of wilful ignorance, with this word, in The States. People who use the word, willingly and freely, so it rolls as softly as rain, are doing so intentionally.
If you were raised otherwise, that says something about the people around you. If that's the norm where you're from, or where you reside, you have bigger issues you need to work on, immediately.
One of my parents is a legit racist and I have a visceral reaction to that word. Good lord. I hope nobody reading CloudBee's story gets the impression that they can cite their childhood and say "well I was never taught." You are a grown ass adult raising children in the year 2016 and your upbringing is not an excuse.
Oh no, that's not what I meant by my post at all. I was more commenting on how she used the word vomit, which made me think of a thread on CEP (from years ago) where someone tried to put into words the reaction that they feel when they hear the word. Their explanation could only be described as visceral, which is why I used that word.
One of my parents is a legit racist and I have a visceral reaction to that word. Good lord. I hope nobody reading CloudBee 's story gets the impression that they can cite their childhood and say "well I was never taught." You are a grown ass adult raising children in the year 2016 and your upbringing is not an excuse.
The past shouldn't be an excuse for bad behavior. It should be motivation to make things right.SaveSave
One of my parents is a legit racist and I have a visceral reaction to that word. Good lord. I hope nobody reading CloudBee 's story gets the impression that they can cite their childhood and say "well I was never taught." You are a grown ass adult raising children in the year 2016 and your upbringing is not an excuse.
Oh no, that's not what I meant by my post at all. I was more commenting on how she used the word vomit, which made me think of a thread on CEP (from years ago) where someone tried to put into words the reaction that they feel when they hear the word. Their explanation could only be described as visceral, which is why I used that word.
I wasn't referring to you, just a general comment because "I wasn't taught" is such a common (non-)excuse.
chilerellanos I have cut an uncle and a grandmother out as well for the same reason. My racist parent is of the "benevolent" variety but I still shut shit down when I hear it. We have an extremely clear understanding about what is not appropriate to discuss a) in my home and b) in front of my children but there is a growing divide between me and both of my parents because of it.
Oh no, that's not what I meant by my post at all. I was more commenting on how she used the word vomit, which made me think of a thread on CEP (from years ago) where someone tried to put into words the reaction that they feel when they hear the word. Their explanation could only be described as visceral, which is why I used that word.
I wasn't referring to you, just a general comment because "I wasn't taught" is such a common (non-)excuse.
It isn't an excuse at all, never should be. I still think a lot about how and when I will have important conversations about these things with my kids. And how I can be pro-active and not reactive.
Post by scribellesam on Sept 15, 2016 21:29:58 GMT -5
My ninth grade English teacher forced her class of sheltered white kids to read that word out loud when I was 14; I can't remember if it was in "To Kill a Mockingbird" or "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." I don't know what the fuck she was trying to prove, but it was so mortifying. I still remember the creeping horror of hearing my voice say it. It's not something I would ever say or type without realizing exactly what I was doing. So it's hard to believe any explanations or excuses in this case.
I'm with you, CloudBee. It makes me want to puke. If my mom would have seen me write or heard me speak that word, even at this point in my life, she would wear my ass out.
It's disgusting that it was said, it's disgusting that no one reported it. I just do not understand.
My ninth grade English teacher forced her class of sheltered white kids to read that word out loud when I was 14; I can't remember if it was in "To Kill a Mockingbird" or "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." I don't know what the fuck she was trying to prove, but it was so mortifying. I still remember the creeping horror of hearing my voice say it. It's not something I would ever say or type without realizing exactly what I was doing. So it's hard to believe any explanations or excuses in this case.
I believe this is what the thread on CEP that I was referring to was about, about a teacher who was doing TKAMB as a read aloud and read the word out loud as is, rather than saying 'n-word'. The WOC on the board spoke about how hearing the word made them feel, especially as children. My understanding of the word was forever changed by that thread.
Edit: to clarify, the thread was about an article about a teacher, the teacher wasn't a poster on CEP.
Honestly, I think this is the issue. I don't think most/many white people truly have this visceral reaction to the word. And even when POC try to explain it to them, because the 'can't relate', it somehow doesn't compute. It's the 'well, it doesn't bother me, how much could it possibly bother you' attitude. This is why I said I was both surprised and not surprised. I was surprised because I would think, that this soon after so many discussions around race, I would have thought posters would be more careful, more thoughtful, more reflective, in their postings. But not surprised, because really, I think too many people don't really get it. They say they do, but they don't.
I think it is great your mother ingrained this into you, and, that as a result, you have the visceral reaction that you do. I honestly can't say that my parents even spoke of the word to me, and while I knew it was wrong to say (somehow???, no recollection of how/why), I can remember reading a thread on CEP a few years ago that really truly gave me new insight into it.
WTF? This isn't an excuse or something that deserves rationalization. I'm shocked this is even a story worth sharing because it seems like an out, or a loophole in why people behave badly, much like the mental illness alibi. In America, white people know not to use that word. Everyone knows not to use that word on some level, unless they are black. White people, especially on this board, know using in public is grounds for being fired, fined (depending on you level of influence) and/ or publically shamed (unless you roll with bigots, and are a bigot by association). There is no, "I didn't know" type of wilful ignorance, with this word, in The States. People who use the word, willingly and freely, so it rolls as softly as rain, are doing so intentionally.
If you were raised otherwise, that says something about the people around you. If that's the norm where you're from, or where you reside, you have bigger issues you need to work on, immediately.
Yes to all of this. My parents aren't native speakers of English and I know damned well not to use this word ever, ever, ever.
I hear you, and hold myself accountable for some of this because I'm all up in here gently educating. Lol. When in the world do I ever do that? I don't do gentle. That's kind of my thing!
Ugh. I'm going to shut up, because I'm giving this foolishness way more positive attention than it deserves.
Someone called me harsh this morning IRL, lol. My response to her was "and I like that about myself."
I also feel like saying that, although MMM has been a fucking trainwreck lately, this particular heinous offense was not on this board. I don't even know how to get to the April 2012 board. Had I seen it before it was blowing up here, I absolutely would have freaked the fuck out and I would hope that others from this board would have as well. I only saw it after it was linked in this thread (and everyone was freaking the fuck out because holy shit that's disgusting!).
The "token" comment was made on this board and I thought that it was quickly caught and tamb was (at least in my opinion) schooled. Before seeing her next demonstration of ignorant racist bullshit, I actually thought that maybe she had learned something. I stand corrected, obviously.
My ninth grade English teacher forced her class of sheltered white kids to read that word out loud when I was 14; I can't remember if it was in "To Kill a Mockingbird" or "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." I don't know what the fuck she was trying to prove, but it was so mortifying. I still remember the creeping horror of hearing my voice say it. It's not something I would ever say or type without realizing exactly what I was doing. So it's hard to believe any explanations or excuses in this case.
It's Huck Finn, and this is the only time I think people should use the word, in its standing text form. You read it as intended, feel the guilt, digust, and shame of having to speak it out loud, then you discuss the historical significance of why (non-black) people should never use that word ever again. Glossing over it, substituting another word, or otherwise hiding from the reality of it's intensity and weight, is a huge failure when thinking about how to raise the next generation of people. I hate that teachers allow students to say "N-word" instead. That's the next of this benevolent racism tap dance, right after not allowing preschoolers to acknowledge that their classmate is Black, by saying Black out loud.
You, @kirkette, are an amazing woman. So much grace.SaveSave
My ninth grade English teacher forced her class of sheltered white kids to read that word out loud when I was 14; I can't remember if it was in "To Kill a Mockingbird" or "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." I don't know what the fuck she was trying to prove, but it was so mortifying. I still remember the creeping horror of hearing my voice say it. It's not something I would ever say or type without realizing exactly what I was doing. So it's hard to believe any explanations or excuses in this case.
It's Huck Finn, and this is the only time I think people should use the word, in its standing text form. You read it as intended, feel the guilt, digust, and shame of having to speak it out loud, then you discuss the historical significance of why (non-black) people should never use that word ever again. Glossing over it, substituting another word, or otherwise hiding from the reality of it's intensity and weight, is a huge failure when thinking about how to raise the next generation of people. I hate that teachers allow students to say "N-word" instead. That's the next of this benevolent racism tap dance, right after not allowing preschoolers to acknowledge that their classmate is Black, by saying Black out loud.
I hope this is the point my teacher was trying to make. My immature teenage mind certainly was imprinted with the horror of the word, and the deep impression that I should never speak it aloud again. Lesson learned either way, I guess.
You, @kirkette , are an amazing woman. So much grace.SaveSave
Every time we had to read that book out loud, in my lily white classes, my classmates either turned bright red, ghost white, or green with sickness, as they tried to avoid looking at me. They usually could only manage to whisper the word, while slumping down in their chair, in attempts to hide from everyone else in the room. Many of the readers who got, "popcorned" into reading one of those fateful paragraphs, wound up in tears of shame, or had to be excuse to go take a walk outside to regroup.
Youknow what that means? That means that their parents raised them well. That means, as adults, they know not to go around saying, or typing, that word, with ease, like it has no meaning, weight, or societal significance.
So, I'm beside myself that @tamb and her apparently illiterate buddies, on April 2012 Moms, tried it today.
I bet if someone had told those posters that Janie & Jack is a shitty assed, overpriced, bourgeoisie Americans strip mall store, which allows "affluent" people with tackiassed outsides to match their classless insides, they would've seen that for sure. They would've likely been flamed to high heaven.
This is really ringing true to me. I couldn't agree more. You (general) should KNOW. And if you don't, it's a sign of the home you were raised in, and the company you keep. Very, very telling.SaveSave
Post by mandapanda18 on Sept 15, 2016 22:36:22 GMT -5
This is an excellent article, I haven't been involved in much of the other conversations (newborn and all that goes along with that and recovery of a section) but I hope this article inspires all (myself included) to not only speak up but act on inequalities!