Maybe it could work for SOME families, but it’s a suggestion that still feels very “bootstraps” to me. It makes certain assumptions about people’s social networks, homes and jobs that aren’t true across our very unequal society.
I don't disagree with you at all. Truly, I don't. But what is the answer? Who are we supposed to be pressuring?
I need to work. My H needs to work. We can't pay our bills without both our salaries. What exactly are schools supposed to do here? They can offer distance learning, which pisses people off because they need to work and don't have the time to homeschool their kids. They can open up, which pisses people off because it creates so much potential exposure and basically ensures people will get sick and die.
I just truly can't figure out how there is any solution here except a coordinated effort at the federal level to shut everything down, make people wear masks by risk of fines/imprisonment, and get this thing under control. Since that's not happening, it feels like everyone is just spinning their wheels.
Well, first, yeah, we need a coordinated effort to get everything under control. That’s the number one thing. None of this is workable in places where the virus is spreading like wildfire.
But I also mentioned up-thread what some local districts around here have done, which is to consider what it would take to open school campuses as a separate question from what learning should look like. So everyone gets the same curriculum (likely with the teacher remote) and schools are staffed like camps. That’s already happening in some places.
We also need to provide emergency funding for schools so they can enact these changes. I’m sure there are better ideas out there but teachers and districts have been hamstrung by a lack of political will (i.e. money).
My point in the post you’re referencing was more: don’t patronize me by telling me that a pod is just as good as childcare, especially across the board. That’s a Band Aid. It may be the best thing we’ve got, but it’s still a Band-Aid.
Maybe it could work for SOME families, but it’s a suggestion that still feels very “bootstraps” to me. It makes certain assumptions about people’s social networks, homes and jobs that aren’t true across our very unequal society.
I don't disagree with you at all. Truly, I don't. But what is the answer? Who are we supposed to be pressuring?
I need to work. My H needs to work. We can't pay our bills without both our salaries. What exactly are schools supposed to do here? They can offer distance learning, which pisses people off because they need to work and don't have the time to homeschool their kids. They can open up, which pisses people off because it creates so much potential exposure and basically ensures people will get sick and die.
I just truly can't figure out how there is any solution here except a coordinated effort at the federal level to shut everything down, make people wear masks by risk of fines/imprisonment, and get this thing under control. Since that's not happening, it feels like everyone is just spinning their wheels.
You can pressure your local and state leaders to make a plan and increase funding, not only for schools but for families and businesses to keep afloat and make payroll during a shut down/remote school. If Trump is refusing to take any responsibility and is putting it back on the states and individual counties then that who has the power.
They need to be held accountable. Is it an election year in your state? Make the governor protect their constituents even if it is out of fear of using power. We can argue about how effective it would be but they need to know what is going on is unacceptable in terms of loss of human life and in the long run their actions will be even more devastating economically. They are failing to do the bare minimum of the duties of their office. Write letters to the editor of your local paper. Form groups of parents and coworkers to collectively pressure your local officials and employers if needed. Straight up protest. Don’t let the anti mask crazies be the only ones making the news.
I know, outnumbered. Not to be a stalker but I saw her say the other day that of course she'd rather be in person. And earlier she had posted about how tough it was to adapt her teaching to online (although from what I've read, I would love for my kids to have her as a teacher in person or online, she seems great). And I have agreed with her on like everything else, I just disagreed with how that was worded.
I’m a million times better an in person teacher because I’ve been trained in it and have done it for 20 years. I could be a really good online teacher if I could be trained in it and have time to create what I want my online classroom to be. The issue I’m having is that I can’t prepare simultaneously for pandemic in-person (which is a totally different classroom than my usual one - no group work, no movement, no role play, no simulation, no partner work — literally nothing I do will be part of my fall classroom and I’d argue that’s way worse than distance learning for kids) and remote school (which I can do well but it takes a lot of time to create). And I don’t even know what any of this will look like so i can’t do either and I’m worried about what that’s going to look like in 6 weeks. I’d like to have an answer so I can make that the best it can be. And at this moment, as much as I hate it, I think it’s full time distance learning
I was just re-reading and want to apologize. My post seems like a "gotcha" attempt when really it's the opposite - I was trying to express that I know you get the nuance and that you have recognized the value of in person learning before. You and I are really not that far apart in opinion.
I think maybe I'm just in denial that in person is out of reach. I'm in Colorado and a few weeks ago we were doing great, cases were at a manageable level and falling, and Denver metro districts scrapped their hybrid plans to announce they were going back 5 days in person (with remote as an option for those who wanted it). And I had come around to the idea and kind of bought in that it was the best thing for the greater good and that maybe there was a way to make it pretty safe. But honestly, things don't look as good here anymore and I know that there are many places where the numbers are even more bleak (and places where the schools have less space and resources). I also deeply feel that teachers should not be sacrificed. I am all over the place on this topic and I feel helpless. I imagine it's way worse for you and I'm really sorry.
I do deeply respect you and I've appreciated seeing your perspective through all this. I'm rooting for you.
I’m a million times better an in person teacher because I’ve been trained in it and have done it for 20 years. I could be a really good online teacher if I could be trained in it and have time to create what I want my online classroom to be. The issue I’m having is that I can’t prepare simultaneously for pandemic in-person (which is a totally different classroom than my usual one - no group work, no movement, no role play, no simulation, no partner work — literally nothing I do will be part of my fall classroom and I’d argue that’s way worse than distance learning for kids) and remote school (which I can do well but it takes a lot of time to create). And I don’t even know what any of this will look like so i can’t do either and I’m worried about what that’s going to look like in 6 weeks. I’d like to have an answer so I can make that the best it can be. And at this moment, as much as I hate it, I think it’s full time distance learning
I was just re-reading and want to apologize. My post seems like a "gotcha" attempt when really it's the opposite - I was trying to express that I know you get the nuance and that you have recognized the value of in person learning before. You and I are really not that far apart in opinion.
I think maybe I'm just in denial that in person is out of reach. I'm in Colorado and a few weeks ago we were doing great, cases were at a manageable level and falling, and Denver metro districts scrapped their hybrid plans to announce they were going back 5 days in person (with remote as an option for those who wanted it). And I had come around to the idea and kind of bought in that it was the best thing for the greater good and that maybe there was a way to make it pretty safe. But honestly, things don't look as good here anymore and I know that there are many places where the numbers are even more bleak (and places where the schools have less space and resources). I also deeply feel that teachers should not be sacrificed. I am all over the place on this topic and I feel helpless. I imagine it's way worse for you and I'm really sorry.
I do deeply respect you and I've appreciated seeing your perspective through all this. I'm rooting for you.
No worries. I get it - I don't want to drop the idea of in-person school and I think it's reasonable to hope for it. This is really hard. I know I'm on edge and defensive for a lot of reasons (fear about my own health, anxiety about my own kids' school, feeling totally unprepared for next year, etc.). I'm just exhausted by all of this.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
erbear do you think the majority of schools are not going to be doing emergency crisis school for the virtual learning options this year? What would seem to differentiate between the emergency crisis teaching that happened in the spring and true remote learning would be education for teachers to learn how to do it effectively and giving them time to completely redesign their lesson plans for remote learning. I'm not aware of any teachers who have received training yet? It sounds like most are not preparing (thinking about it, yes, but not actually preparing material) because they don't know what their school districts plans are and what they will be assigned.
Teachers are magicians so maybe you are all going to pull off miracles here and I just need to believe more, but it seems like we've set most teachers up for failure to effectively implement remote learning for the year.
Same with our summer camp. You can tell they put a ton of thought into how to get the camp up and running again safely. They follow all of the CDC suggestions and procedures for masking and social distancing. They hired more counselors to cut group sizes down to 10 or under. They changed check in and out procedures so parents can stay 6 at least feet apart at all times. I see from this example that it can be done. And it’s been soo nice for the kids to have some normalcy back in their lives.
Of course, the camp had a substantial financial motivation to do so. Schools seem to have less motivation. Officials look at the obstacles - from limited budgets to outdated buildings to not enough teachers - and throw up their hands. I get it but I also think that if we (parents, teachers, staff, school admin, the media, and other concerned people) put enough pressure on federal officials to reopen schools safely, they’d give schools the money they need to make the necessary changes.
ETA: another thing that the podcast mentioned is that - clearly many summer camps (esp in the NE where caseloads are way down) are open. They’re following the CDC suggestions for camps and schools. And yet no government org has been tasked with following their progress and seeing what we can learn from these camps in time for reopening public schools. Why is this? Common sense tells you that they’re setting an example for schools to follow if no outbreaks occur. So anyway the economist Emily Oster started a project to collect data on the camps that are running.
Another thing that was mentioned is that so far, no large outbreak has been traced to any of the daycare centers that were open in the spring for children of essential workers. Again, suggesting that schools can reopen if they follow the same safety procedures.
Day care centers have a much higher staff to child ratio and much smaller classes. They have more bathrooms and facilities. They are also paid for by parents. If they need more money for implementation of precautions they can ask the parents to pay more or bring in their own items. Those conditions cannot really be replicated in public schools.
In my last school I had 38 elementary school aged students on my own. One bathroom serviced hundreds of students from all grades. I had to bring my own soap in for the children to wash their hands. We didn’t have windows that opened. We didn’t have a playground or parking lot that could potentially be repurposed for outdoor leaning. No matter how creative I was, I couldn’t change any of those things.
I don't disagree at all that schools face enormous obstacles in reopening. The point of the podcast though, which I agree with, is that the US is a country with enormous resources. If we wanted to open schools, we can do it. But we need to be willing to spend big to make it happen. That's means Congress needs to be willing to open its wallet. AND we need to get the virus under control first, which may mean some states like AZ, FL, and TX may need to shut down for one or two months again.
The point is, we need to be willing to make sacrifices to reopen schools. But reopening schools is one of the most important things we can do for society and the economy. We need to make this happen. As parents, I'm sure we all agree that it's beyond frustrating to see industries like the airlines getting billion dollar bailouts but not public schools.
icedcoffee schools got no additional money yet switched to entirely distance learning practically overnight. Some didn't do as well as others, but again: they received no money (or training). They will again get no extra money for this school year. To be creative, flexible and innovative you need money.
Also, as with everything in schools, teachers had to figure it out on their own on the fly. They'll have to do so again with precious little (if any) time to plan because schools aren't letting anyone know the plans for the school year until the last minute.
This is also extremely frustrating. I almost wish we had made the decision back in the spring just to be 100% online again so that teachers could have had the whole summer to learn about best practices with online teaching and plan their lessons. Of course none of them knew much about online teaching back in the spring. You can't go from in person teaching to remote learning literally overnight and think it won't be without kinks. No one blames teachers.
As it is, they're caught between a rock and a hard place. We just heard that we're not going to have a decision about what we're doing until August 13. I assume it'll be some type of hybrid model.
Post by CheeringCharm on Jul 12, 2020 9:32:10 GMT -5
I haven't seen this issue mentioned yet but one thing I wonder about is what effect regional differences in caseloads will have on decisions about what to do with schools. In NYS as a whole and our particular region of the state, less than 2% of tests are coming back positive. Plus we supposedly have enough testing and tracers for our population size, at least according to the global health experts Cuomo says he consults and talks about in his daily briefings. Mask compliance is really high. I rarely see people not wearing them in public. Stores and restaurants require them to enter. There's hand sanitizer everywhere. Our kids' summer camps practice social distancing and have the kids wash their hands several times a day. I feel like we are a state and a region who is learning to live with the virus and doing the things necessary to keep cases down so that life can resume to some degree of normalcy. If I was a teacher, I'd be somewhat less concerned about going back to work here than if I lived in, say, AZ, TX, FL, SC, GA, etc. etc. Those situations are scary.
CheeringCharm I wonder that too in terms of regional differences. In California I hope school boards can make decisions at a more granular level than even the county level. Since our counties are enormous. San Diego County has over 3 million people and is bigger than the state of Rhode Island and has a similar population as Connecticut.
Of course the situation could change, but my town and the town next to it (combined population 300,000) haven’t seen a single COVID death and have low case counts. A couple hours north you have Los Angeles with a big outbreak, and an hour+ south is the Mexican border, and there are a lot of cases there.
Our district consists only of elementary schools, we have no buses, relatively small class sizes, most classrooms open to the outside, and we’re in a climate where you could teach everyone outside year round.
If our district were willing to make independent decisions I think it wouldn’t be irresponsible to open in person on some level. But I’m pretty sure we’ll follow the larger Los Angeles or San Diego school board decisions and I will be surprised if we have any in person learning.
erbear do you think the majority of schools are not going to be doing emergency crisis school for the virtual learning options this year? What would seem to differentiate between the emergency crisis teaching that happened in the spring and true remote learning would be education for teachers to learn how to do it effectively and giving them time to completely redesign their lesson plans for remote learning. I'm not aware of any teachers who have received training yet? It sounds like most are not preparing (thinking about it, yes, but not actually preparing material) because they don't know what their school districts plans are and what they will be assigned.
Teachers are magicians so maybe you are all going to pull off miracles here and I just need to believe more, but it seems like we've set most teachers up for failure to effectively implement remote learning for the year.
Every single teacher I know, all over the country and in public and private schools, has been working this summer on getting their class online. There are tons of free and paid courses that folks are taking, people are looking at technology and LMSs that better support online learning. Literally everyone is better prepared with 4 weeks of summer than we were with a 2 day heads up. Do I feel confident in my online class? No, not yet, but it’s like being a new teacher. I have a plan that has some legs and I will have to adjust but at least I have a plan.
That said, some districts, as usual, are better off than others since funding is so unequal.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Day care centers have a much higher staff to child ratio and much smaller classes. They have more bathrooms and facilities. They are also paid for by parents. If they need more money for implementation of precautions they can ask the parents to pay more or bring in their own items. Those conditions cannot really be replicated in public schools.
In my last school I had 38 elementary school aged students on my own. One bathroom serviced hundreds of students from all grades. I had to bring my own soap in for the children to wash their hands. We didn’t have windows that opened. We didn’t have a playground or parking lot that could potentially be repurposed for outdoor leaning. No matter how creative I was, I couldn’t change any of those things.
I don't disagree at all that schools face enormous obstacles in reopening. The point of the podcast though, which I agree with, is that the US is a country with enormous resources. If we wanted to open schools, we can do it. But we need to be willing to spend big to make it happen. That's means Congress needs to be willing to open its wallet. AND we need to get the virus under control first, which may mean some states like AZ, FL, and TX may need to shut down for one or two months again.
The point is, we need to be willing to make sacrifices to reopen schools. But reopening schools is one of the most important things we can do for society and the economy. We need to make this happen. As parents, I'm sure we all agree that it's beyond frustrating to see industries like the airlines getting billion dollar bailouts but not public schools.
Yes, we could do something if the government is really behind it. But not by August. You can’t make more bathrooms and windows and barriers and outdoor spaces appear in hundred year old school buildings overnight. There is a physical reality that keeps being glossed over in a lot of these plans. There isn’t time to tear down schools and rebuild them to make them safer in the next few weeks or even months. We’ve wasted months of planning due to a lack of a federal response and the bizarre politicizing of a virus.
What needs to happen is the government needs to make it feasible for people to stay home and businesses stay afloat. Other countries are doing this by offering payroll protection. We are not. If we had protections like these we wouldn’t have to be forcing people back to work. The economy would take a dip but it wouldn’t be anything like we have seen and will continue to see once schools reopen and teachers, staff and students and their families start to get sick and die.
The failure really comes down to this. Right now people can’t stay home and are forced to work, spreading the virus. In places where they could stay home, they have it under control and schools can reopen.
Ideally, we’d do virtual school for at least the fall with additional help for students who require special services like home visits or small pod type classrooms while the schools get physically ready to reopen and new schools are build where distancing is possible.
The “sacrifices” that need to be made should not be human life and that is what is expected right now.
icedcoffee schools got no additional money yet switched to entirely distance learning practically overnight. Some didn't do as well as others, but again: they received no money (or training). They will again get no extra money for this school year. To be creative, flexible and innovative you need money.
Also, as with everything in schools, teachers had to figure it out on their own on the fly. They'll have to do so again with precious little (if any) time to plan because schools aren't letting anyone know the plans for the school year until the last minute.
This is also extremely frustrating. I almost wish we had made the decision back in the spring just to be 100% online again so that teachers could have had the whole summer to learn about best practices with online teaching and plan their lessons. Of course none of them knew much about online teaching back in the spring. You can't go from in person teaching to remote learning literally overnight and think it won't be without kinks. No one blames teachers.
As it is, they're caught between a rock and a hard place. We just heard that we're not going to have a decision about what we're doing until August 13. I assume it'll be some type of hybrid model.
You nailed my frustration here. Schools are getting blamed for something that is 100% on the government.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I haven't seen this issue mentioned yet but one thing I wonder about is what effect regional differences in caseloads will have on decisions about what to do with schools. In NYS as a whole and our particular region of the state, less than 2% of tests are coming back positive. Plus we supposedly have enough testing and tracers for our population size, at least according to the global health experts Cuomo says he consults and talks about in his daily briefings. Mask compliance is really high. I rarely see people not wearing them in public. Stores and restaurants require them to enter. There's hand sanitizer everywhere. Our kids' summer camps practice social distancing and have the kids wash their hands several times a day. I feel like we are a state and a region who is learning to live with the virus and doing the things necessary to keep cases down so that life can resume to some degree of normalcy. If I was a teacher, I'd be somewhat less concerned about going back to work here than if I lived in, say, AZ, TX, FL, SC, GA, etc. etc. Those situations are scary.
The thing is that all states should be doing that no matter what their current virus rate is. That’s how you keep it low. You can’t have rules for one county and then walk two blocks and have the rules be totally different. That just isn’t how public health is supposed to work or how you keep a virus under control.
It might be harder for states that aren’t hit hard to see the results of this right away but that is what other counties are doing and why they can slowly get back to normal. Everyone is doing the same thing regardless of how their individual neighbors are doing.
I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.
I don’t understand this comment. Who doesn’t understand or admit that school is childcare? Of course it is! Society and the economy have been built around that fact and that’s obviously why people are so outraged about the possibility of it closing without anything to replace it. It’s not about valuing it, it’s about working parents not having any alternative.
I agree with others that the real failing is the federal government here. Since it is becoming more and more apparent that it is not going to be safe to open school in a lot of places, there needs to be federal assistance so that people can stay home and not lose their jobs or their housing, etc etc. But we know that will never happen. So we’re all just screwed.
I wish everyone would just admit that we see school as child care in this country (I’m not judging, simply stating a fact). If we valued school, we would go online - it’s safer and a better educational option right now than what is being proposed for in-person school, and knowing how disruptive being off and on, teachers and kids out to quarantine, etc will be. If it’s about school, online is the better option.
I don’t understand this comment. Who doesn’t understand or admit that school is childcare? Of course it is! Society and the economy have been built around that fact and that’s obviously why people are so outraged about the possibility of it closing without anything to replace it. It’s not about valuing it, it’s about working parents not having any alternative.
I agree with others that the real failing is the federal government here. Since it is becoming more and more apparent that it is not going to be safe to open school in a lot of places, there needs to be federal assistance so that people can stay home and not lose their jobs or their housing, etc etc. But we know that will never happen. So we’re all just screwed.
This is the reason schools and teachers aren’t valued in the United States. Because many many parents see us as glorified babysitters (though I’d argue that babysitters are better paid and less stressed because somehow we also want teachers to be miracle workers). If I wanted to be a babysitter, I could have skipped 7 years of school and demanded $20/hour for pay.
Schools are essential when it’s convenient and that has been laid bare by this pandemic. If they were truly essential, this would be a non-issue because we would fund them properly so they could run well and safely, even in a pandemic.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I don’t understand this comment. Who doesn’t understand or admit that school is childcare? Of course it is! Society and the economy have been built around that fact and that’s obviously why people are so outraged about the possibility of it closing without anything to replace it. It’s not about valuing it, it’s about working parents not having any alternative.
I agree with others that the real failing is the federal government here. Since it is becoming more and more apparent that it is not going to be safe to open school in a lot of places, there needs to be federal assistance so that people can stay home and not lose their jobs or their housing, etc etc. But we know that will never happen. So we’re all just screwed.
This is the reason schools and teachers aren’t valued in the United States. Because many many parents see us as glorified babysitters (though I’d argue that babysitters are better paid and less stressed because somehow we also want teachers to be miracle workers). If I wanted to be a babysitter, I could have skipped 7 years of school and demanded $20/hour for pay.
Schools are essential when it’s convenient and that has been laid bare by this pandemic. If they were truly essential, this would be a non-issue because we would fund them properly so they could run well and safely, even in a pandemic.
I still don’t understand. Are you saying that childcare is not a component of school? I’m not trying to insult you by calling it childcare but it is a fact that kids are at school for like 6 hours a day. Obviously schooling has more value than just childcare. But you can’t replace the learning with online learning and not replace the childcare aspect of it. What exactly am I missing about this?
This is the reason schools and teachers aren’t valued in the United States. Because many many parents see us as glorified babysitters (though I’d argue that babysitters are better paid and less stressed because somehow we also want teachers to be miracle workers). If I wanted to be a babysitter, I could have skipped 7 years of school and demanded $20/hour for pay.
Schools are essential when it’s convenient and that has been laid bare by this pandemic. If they were truly essential, this would be a non-issue because we would fund them properly so they could run well and safely, even in a pandemic.
I still don’t understand. Are you saying that childcare is not a component of school? I’m not trying to insult you by calling it childcare but it is a fact that kids are at school for like 6 hours a day. Obviously schooling has more value than just childcare. But you can’t replace the learning with online learning and not replace the childcare aspect of it. What exactly am I missing about this?
To call your child’s teacher child care devalues their work. Go ahead and tell your child’s teacher that he or she is a babysitter. I’m sure that will go over super well.
If you cannot see why what you are saying is insulting to educators who have more schooling and training than most professionals, then you are part of the problem with the education system in America today. Teachers do not work for parents. You wouldn’t like it if I said that schools essentially raise children these days.
Regardless, I think you are correct that most parents consider a School to be childcare and that has become obvious during this pandemic. You cannot survive without us. The economy cannot live without schools being open, and it is super problematic that the same people who are demanding that school will be open because they need a place to put their kids are also unwilling to push to have schools properly funded and teachers pay better.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I still don’t understand. Are you saying that childcare is not a component of school? I’m not trying to insult you by calling it childcare but it is a fact that kids are at school for like 6 hours a day. Obviously schooling has more value than just childcare. But you can’t replace the learning with online learning and not replace the childcare aspect of it. What exactly am I missing about this?
To call your child’s teacher child care devalues their work. Go ahead and tell your child’s teacher that he or she is a babysitter. I’m sure that will go over super well.
If you cannot see why what you are saying is insulting to educators who have more schooling and training than most professionals, then you are part of the problem with the education system in America today. Teachers do not work for parents. You wouldn’t like it if I said that schools essentially raise children these days.
Regardless, I think you are correct that most parents consider a School to be childcare and that has become obvious during this pandemic. You cannot survive without us. The economy cannot live without schools being open, and it is super problematic that the same people who are demanding that school will be open because they need a place to put their kids are also unwilling to push to have schools properly funded and teachers pay better.
Schools provide a safe (for most kids) supervised place for children to be while they are learning, freeing up parents to work. Remote schooling does not provide supervision for children, thereby not freeing up parents to work. I did not know this distinction was controversial or disputed. It is a fact that I am able to work FT because my 2nd grader attends school at a bricks and mortar building -- or did pre-covid. It is also a fact that in my state it is illegal for me to leave her home alone.
I don't think that recognizing this is the same as calling teachers babysitters. But I'm open to considering it more.
To call your child’s teacher child care devalues their work. Go ahead and tell your child’s teacher that he or she is a babysitter. I’m sure that will go over super well.
If you cannot see why what you are saying is insulting to educators who have more schooling and training than most professionals, then you are part of the problem with the education system in America today. Teachers do not work for parents. You wouldn’t like it if I said that schools essentially raise children these days.
Regardless, I think you are correct that most parents consider a School to be childcare and that has become obvious during this pandemic. You cannot survive without us. The economy cannot live without schools being open, and it is super problematic that the same people who are demanding that school will be open because they need a place to put their kids are also unwilling to push to have schools properly funded and teachers pay better.
Schools provide a safe (for most kids) supervised place for children to be while they are learning, freeing up parents to work. Remote schooling does not provide supervision for children, thereby not freeing up parents to work. I did not know this distinction was controversial or disputed. It is a fact that I am able to work FT because my 2nd grader attends school at a bricks and mortar building -- or did pre-covid. It is also a fact that in my state it is illegal for me to leave her home alone.
I don't think that recognizing this is the same as calling teachers babysitters. But I'm open to considering it more.
We agree. Then be on the same team. Ask your kid’s teacher how you can support him/her/they when school starts, no matter what it looks like, even if it’s not what you want.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I still don’t understand. Are you saying that childcare is not a component of school? I’m not trying to insult you by calling it childcare but it is a fact that kids are at school for like 6 hours a day. Obviously schooling has more value than just childcare. But you can’t replace the learning with online learning and not replace the childcare aspect of it. What exactly am I missing about this?
To call your child’s teacher child care devalues their work. Go ahead and tell your child’s teacher that he or she is a babysitter. I’m sure that will go over super well.
If you cannot see why what you are saying is insulting to educators who have more schooling and training than most professionals, then you are part of the problem with the education system in America today. Teachers do not work for parents. You wouldn’t like it if I said that schools essentially raise children these days.
Regardless, I think you are correct that most parents consider a School to be childcare and that has become obvious during this pandemic. You cannot survive without us. The economy cannot live without schools being open, and it is super problematic that the same people who are demanding that school will be open because they need a place to put their kids are also unwilling to push to have schools properly funded and teachers pay better.
I never called teachers babysitters. I also didn’t say that childcare was all teachers do. It is a fact that school provides care for children that parents depend on to be able to work. I’m sorry that you find that capacity of your job to be so demeaning.
I actually wouldn’t argue with you that schools are an integral part of raising children. I mean, school age kids spend 30 hours a week at school, more if they are also in before/after school care. That’s probably more hours than they spend with their parents, awake! So no, I’m not offended by that.
I don't disagree at all that schools face enormous obstacles in reopening. The point of the podcast though, which I agree with, is that the US is a country with enormous resources. If we wanted to open schools, we can do it. But we need to be willing to spend big to make it happen. That's means Congress needs to be willing to open its wallet. AND we need to get the virus under control first, which may mean some states like AZ, FL, and TX may need to shut down for one or two months again.
The point is, we need to be willing to make sacrifices to reopen schools. But reopening schools is one of the most important things we can do for society and the economy. We need to make this happen. As parents, I'm sure we all agree that it's beyond frustrating to see industries like the airlines getting billion dollar bailouts but not public schools.
Yes, we could do something if the government is really behind it. But not by August. You can’t make more bathrooms and windows and barriers and outdoor spaces appear in hundred year old school buildings overnight. There is a physical reality that keeps being glossed over in a lot of these plans. There isn’t time to tear down schools and rebuild them to make them safer in the next few weeks or even months. We’ve wasted months of planning due to a lack of a federal response and the bizarre politicizing of a virus.
What needs to happen is the government needs to make it feasible for people to stay home and businesses stay afloat. Other countries are doing this by offering payroll protection. We are not. If we had protections like these we wouldn’t have to be forcing people back to work. The economy would take a dip but it wouldn’t be anything like we have seen and will continue to see once schools reopen and teachers, staff and students and their families start to get sick and die.
The failure really comes down to this. Right now people can’t stay home and are forced to work, spreading the virus. In places where they could stay home, they have it under control and schools can reopen.
Ideally, we’d do virtual school for at least the fall with additional help for students who require special services like home visits or small pod type classrooms while the schools get physically ready to reopen and new schools are build where distancing is possible.
The “sacrifices” that need to be made should not be human life and that is what is expected right now.
I agree with this too. I would be completely on board if NY came out and said you what, 100% in person learning is our goal and to do that we need to delay opening school for two months while we retro fit buildings or find more buildings to use so we can cut class size down and make sure every classroom has windows to open. I just want to see competent leadership working toward a publicly stated goal transparently.
So far the issue of school has been publicly treated as 1. An after thought to the economy when really it is a precursor because of childcare and 2. Something of a secret or a mystery. For example, why weren’t state and national leaders talking about what we need to do to reopen schools back in the Spring? Why is this just now becoming a national conversation in July? We all knew this was coming. It’s hard not to agree with the OP’s article which says no one but parents and teachers care about this. Two of the least powerful groups politically.
I haven't seen this issue mentioned yet but one thing I wonder about is what effect regional differences in caseloads will have on decisions about what to do with schools. In NYS as a whole and our particular region of the state, less than 2% of tests are coming back positive. Plus we supposedly have enough testing and tracers for our population size, at least according to the global health experts Cuomo says he consults and talks about in his daily briefings. Mask compliance is really high. I rarely see people not wearing them in public. Stores and restaurants require them to enter. There's hand sanitizer everywhere. Our kids' summer camps practice social distancing and have the kids wash their hands several times a day. I feel like we are a state and a region who is learning to live with the virus and doing the things necessary to keep cases down so that life can resume to some degree of normalcy. If I was a teacher, I'd be somewhat less concerned about going back to work here than if I lived in, say, AZ, TX, FL, SC, GA, etc. etc. Those situations are scary.
The thing is that all states should be doing that no matter what their current virus rate is. That’s how you keep it low. You can’t have rules for one county and then walk two blocks and have the rules be totally different. That just isn’t how public health is supposed to work or how you keep a virus under control.
It might be harder for states that aren’t hit hard to see the results of this right away but that is what other counties are doing and why they can slowly get back to normal. Everyone is doing the same thing regardless of how their individual neighbors are doing.
I agree and that is how NYS has been treating the virus. There are 5 different regions and published criteria to meet for each phase. If your region doesn’t meet the criteria or there are other concerns, then you don’t get to move on to the next phase. Our region is in phase 4 now and I think schools are a phase 5 thing. Anyway, so far I have felt comfortable with how Cuomo has been handling this. He has made mistakes (like sending sick patients back to nursing homes early on) but at least he seems to understand the science behind the virus and hasn’t been politicizing it. Establishing objective criteria related to declining caseloads and hospitalizations and increasing testing, tracing, and equipment for doctors has enabled the state to bring cases down and reopen safely.
I don’t know how many other states are doing the same. It seems to be mostly the NE and NW. I also don’t know if NY’s quarantine will hold against travelers coming from other states. It seems inevitable that cases will increase here as travelers return home but the saving grace is the thought that 1. Maybe the spread will be limited because mask compliance and social distancing is pretty high and 2. We supposedly have enough tests and tracers so that we can contain new outbreaks.
I work in an education adjacent field but before that I was a teacher briefly. I taught high school, so no I really didn’t think of it as childcare. Most of my students were 11th graders.
It is dependent on the child’s ages. I posted before that my school age kids have outgrown daycare, so if schools don’t open what are my options for care? I can’t go back to the daycare which has no program for 9 year olds, and didn’t have any available spots anyway. Are camps supposed to step up for the school year? After school programs cost triple and provide full day care? Nannies? Am I supposed to quit my job? Go part time? Leave my kids home alone with no enforcement of education/ e-learning?
A pandemic throws us back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Yes education is important but in order to get there we need the lower level of safety. But safety here is battling many factors against each other. 1. Not exposing everyone to the virus 2. Proper supervision of children for safety reasons 3. The ability to work to provide housing and food etc. 4. Schools are part time housing and meals
Just saw on the news that “micro schooling” is the new term for parents who form pods to do distance learning together. I’ll admit this is probably our best solution right now as a country. Realizing not everyone has easy access or ability to form one it would be nice if schools found a way to help parents form them. Maybe an assignment process or an app that could help parents link up. This is the best way to allow working parents to work and maybe they could pay a small fee to the host family. Obvious it won’t work for everyone but it’s better than abandoning everyone to fend for themselves.
ETA: this allows teachers to remain safe at home and as a full time worker I could make this work with a pod. Seems win/win. Schools could open for special needs students only. Also solves not having enough teachers.
I'm not a fan of the wording "raise" in regard to childcare and school. I think it is a term that people use to throw it in your face if you are a working mom. Note, I didn't say dad because no one says that to dads only moms. And yes I sound bitter because I had a good friend do this to me.
However, I do believe in it takes a village, and it is a partnership between the daycare and parents and school/teachers and parents.
Just saw on the news that “micro schooling” is the new term for parents who form pods to do distance learning together. I’ll admit this is probably our best solution right now as a country. Realizing not everyone has easy access or ability to form one it would be nice if schools found a way to help parents form them. Maybe an assignment process or an app that could help parents link up. This is the best way to allow working parents to work and maybe they could pay a small fee to the host family. Obvious it won’t work for everyone but it’s better than abandoning everyone to fend for themselves.
ETA: this allows teachers to remain safe at home and as a full time worker I could make this work with a pod. Seems win/win. Schools could open for special needs students only. Also solves not having enough teachers.
I'm just re-reading this again for the pod stuff.
It's a lot to ask a school to create pods for everyone in the middle of their own re-opening plans including online only, fully in person and hybrid- all different across the country. It's a lot to ask for parents to create micro schools because politicians have messed up this virus so much that they can't get it under control. Schools have opened up in other countries with the majority of them not having major outbreaks. It can be done, but the US chose not to do the work to get this under control.
People are not taking anything well school related, and I don't think they will take it well if the public school says whelp we can't do much, but here is your pod- you figure it out- and we will support you a little bit with online learning.
Also micro school could just be a small private school. Believe me many people thought about switching to one, but I am not really interested in the mostly failing enrollment Catholic schools in the area, and the Montessori has weird reviews online and no one actually attends it. Not all micro schools are "good" including pods.
I mean I am not against it if people do pods- you do you. But it isn't a societal answer like in person schools were before Covid. It is more a each family has to make a decision for themselves on how they are going to react to these unforeseen circumstances. Pods are not first on my list of disaster planning, but they are on there because I would have had no better choices by the time I get to that one.