SCOTUS rage (@)

[neverfstop]

May 3, 2022 7:18:21 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

Is there anything congress can do right now and do we have the votes?

Analysts referenced congress last night but it wasn’t explained well. Also what happens if R’s take both house and senate? Can they forbid in all states?

Abolish the fillibuster and pass national laws that would guarantee it.  Think that will fly with Sinema and Manchin?

[cville]

I am despondent and I am livid. I don't know how to hold these two emotions at the same time. I am despondent because I feel so impotent to do anything real to help. My reasons for being livid are obvious.

Let's be frank. No matter where I live, I have the resources to figure out how to get an abortion. It's not about people like me. It's about the poorest and most marginalized.

And then it's about every other right guaranteed by similar legal logic. Similar, rational, real, grounded legal logic.

If this drives democratic voters I'll take that small silver lining. But that silver lining is far overshadowed by the reality of our future.

[ssmjlm]

Question - my mom talked about in the 70s that if they needed abortions, they would go to DC since the laws didn't apply. Would that still be the case? (I am obviously simplifying.)

[Velar Fricative]

May 3, 2022 7:47:40 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Question - my mom talked about in the 70s that if they needed abortions, they would go to DC since the laws didn't apply. Would that still be the case? (I am obviously simplifying.)

I could have sworn I recalled reading about New York as the destination of choice but maybe DC too?

[redheadbaker]

May 3, 2022 6:08:05 GMT -5 timorousbeastie said:

May 2, 2022 21:38:44 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

They’ll go after Griswold and Oberfell next. Michigans GOP nominee for state AG already said that Griswold was wrong and it should be up to the states. 2016 was the most important election.

He is also on record as saying that if elected, he will enforce MI’s law of prosecuting women for having an abortion, even if the abortion was performed to save her life.

Who is this guy? 

[msmerymac]

May 2, 2022 21:18:10 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I need to sit and cry for a bit.

That's what I did last night!

[underwaterrhymes]

May 3, 2022 7:47:40 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Question - my mom talked about in the 70s that if they needed abortions, they would go to DC since the laws didn't apply. Would that still be the case? (I am obviously simplifying.)

There are several states that have protections in place if Roe is overturned, but the challenge is many people who want or need one may be unable to get there. Rich, white people will always be able to get safe abortions. People who are poor or marginalized won’t.

Also, it’s worth pointing out the Plan B has a weight limit of 155 pounds (although there is no harm done in taking it above that limit, it may be less effective.)

[msmerymac]

May 3, 2022 7:57:41 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

May 3, 2022 7:47:40 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Question - my mom talked about in the 70s that if they needed abortions, they would go to DC since the laws didn't apply. Would that still be the case? (I am obviously simplifying.)

I could have sworn I recalled reading about New York as the destination of choice but maybe DC too?

IIRC Alaska, Hawaii, NY, and Washington state allowed abortion before Roe. Maybe DC did as well. NY was the only state that allowed it generally, so it was the easiest for non-residents to travel to obtain one. 

Crazy stat - in 1969, over 600 American women traveled to ENGLAND to obtain an abortion, which we think of as an Irish phenomenon.

[timorousbeastie]

May 3, 2022 8:04:45 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

May 3, 2022 6:08:05 GMT -5 timorousbeastie said:

He is also on record as saying that if elected, he will enforce MI’s law of prosecuting women for having an abortion, even if the abortion was performed to save her life.

Who is this guy? 

Matt DePerno. He’s the lawyer behind the Antrim County, Michigan court case about how the election was supposedly stolen, so of course Trump has endorsed him. He’s also been fired from two different law firms because of fraud and assaulting a client. Nothing but the best.

[basilosaurus]

May 3, 2022 8:12:57 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

May 3, 2022 7:57:41 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I could have sworn I recalled reading about New York as the destination of choice but maybe DC too?

IIRC Alaska, Hawaii, NY, and Washington state allowed abortion before Roe. Maybe DC did as well. NY was the only state that allowed it generally, so it was the easiest for non-residents to travel to obtain one. 

Crazy stat - in 1969, over 600 American women traveled to ENGLAND to obtain an abortion, which we think of as an Irish phenomenon.

I was also reading that if you're a resident in a criminalized states you can still face consequences when you return. I remember reading ages ago that pre-Roe at state borders, cops would pull people over they suspected of obtaining an abortion, and just having pads with you could make you suspect. So TX's bounty could follow many pregnant people. 

CT is in the process of providing protections from that. edition.cnn.com/2022/04/30/politics/connecticut-abortion-legislation/index.html

[prettyinpearls]

May 3, 2022 6:08:05 GMT -5 timorousbeastie said:

May 2, 2022 21:38:44 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

They’ll go after Griswold and Oberfell next. Michigans GOP nominee for state AG already said that Griswold was wrong and it should be up to the states. 2016 was the most important election.

He is also on record as saying that if elected, he will enforce MI’s law of prosecuting women for having an abortion, even if the abortion was performed to save her life.

Which candidate is this? I know there are several planning to run but I'm not familiar with many of them. 

ETA: I see your answer above. I've never head of that guy. 

[ssmjlm]

underwaterrhymes, completely agree transportation is a huge issue. I'm not too far from DC, so I was thinking I can put my $ to places that are working to assist in transport.

[wanderingback]

May 3, 2022 7:09:53 GMT -5 eddy said:

What are our thoughts on acquiring  mail order abortion pills to keep for future use? I am not concerned with about myself, but is it a small way that could help someone else? Or is this so small scale it isn’t even worth it?

I am aware of the usual ways to fight back. Organize, donate etc. But what else can we do?

Yes I posted about this above. Share with people that it is safe to buy abortion pills and can use them later. Typically telling people based on research they should be effective 1-2 years after the expiration date for both mifepristone and misoprostol.

The laws have never saved us so we need to share information with people so they can continue to take care of themselves.

[wildrice]

So in terms of donations - is it better to donate to clinics in states that are restricting or likely to restrict access, or clinics in states that are unlikely to restrict and thus would be an option for folks to travel to?

I'm considering donating to the clinic in Iowa where I personally had an abortion (which, now that I type that I should have been doing all along....) but if they are going to be shut down anyway, would it be better to donate to one in Illinois that Iowans could potentially travel to if they were unable to obtain care in Iowa anymore?

Also, has anyone heard about any protests or anything happening in DC? I'd like to go if/when that happens. Maybe it will be ongoing?

[wanderingback]

May 3, 2022 7:47:40 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Question - my mom talked about in the 70s that if they needed abortions, they would go to DC since the laws didn't apply. Would that still be the case? (I am obviously simplifying.)

Right now likely the decision is going to leave it up to the states.
States are trying to pass laws that essentially say people can’t travel, etc, but that will likely be hard to enforce. In addition, non restrictive states are trying to pass "safe haven laws." Right now a lot of the abortion laws punish providers and not the people accessing abortion themselves.

But overall it’s a very fluid situation and there’s going to be a lot of confusion for awhile. However, as far as I’m aware this will not be a federal ban so yes people in non restricted states are going to continue to perform abortion care and many of us have been preparing for the influx. It has already been happening since SB8 passed in Texas over 6 months ago.

[pixy0stix]

CO recently (along with others) affirmed that it will uphold abortion rights. www.npr.org/2022/04/05/1091041608/colorado-abortion-law

We're right smack dab in the middle of states that will ban. Providers here are trying to staff up, but they're already feeling the strain just from TX alone. www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/29/1089280422/colorado-abortion-access

This is going to be so bad.

[wanderingback]

May 3, 2022 8:41:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

So in terms of donations - is it better to donate to clinics in states that are restricting or likely to restrict access, or clinics in states that are unlikely to restrict and thus would be an option for folks to travel to?

I'm considering donating to the clinic in Iowa where I personally had an abortion (which, now that I type that I should have been doing all along....) but if they are going to be shut down anyway, would it be better to donate to one in Illinois that Iowans could potentially travel to if they were unable to obtain care in Iowa anymore?

Also, has anyone heard about any protests or anything happening in DC? I'd like to go if/when that happens. Maybe it will be ongoing?

There are protests at the SCOTUS right now and continuing throughout the day.
People need abortions now so I would donate directly to clinics. In addition, many clinics do more than just abortions so it’s not a given that they’ll automatically shut down after the decision.
Of course abortion funds are also needed if you feel compelled to donate there as well.

[kadams767]

May 3, 2022 8:38:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2022 7:09:53 GMT -5 eddy said:

What are our thoughts on acquiring  mail order abortion pills to keep for future use? I am not concerned with about myself, but is it a small way that could help someone else? Or is this so small scale it isn’t even worth it?

I am aware of the usual ways to fight back. Organize, donate etc. But what else can we do?

Yes I posted about this above. Share with people that it is safe to buy abortion pills and can use them later. Typically telling people based on research they should be effective 1-2 years after the expiration date for both mifepristone and misoprostol.

The laws have never saved us so we need to share information with people so they can continue to take care of themselves.

Are you concerned at all about a run on the pills and people who actually need them now not being able to obtain them if they end up being stockpiled?  I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've seen some things online about generally NOT doing this en masse right now.

[wildrice]

May 3, 2022 8:47:50 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2022 8:41:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

So in terms of donations - is it better to donate to clinics in states that are restricting or likely to restrict access, or clinics in states that are unlikely to restrict and thus would be an option for folks to travel to?

I'm considering donating to the clinic in Iowa where I personally had an abortion (which, now that I type that I should have been doing all along....) but if they are going to be shut down anyway, would it be better to donate to one in Illinois that Iowans could potentially travel to if they were unable to obtain care in Iowa anymore?

Also, has anyone heard about any protests or anything happening in DC? I'd like to go if/when that happens. Maybe it will be ongoing?

There are protests at the SCOTUS right now and continuing throughout the day.
People need abortions now so I would donate directly to clinics. In addition, many clinics do more than just abortions so it’s not a given that they’ll automatically shut down after the decision.
Of course abortion funds are also needed if you feel compelled to donate there as well.

Thank you! Good point about them providing other care - I knew that and totally forgot I think they actually only do abortions a couple of days a week so their main purpose is probably women's care in general (or at least that was the case 9 years ago).

[wanderingback]

May 3, 2022 8:49:25 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

May 3, 2022 8:38:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I posted about this above. Share with people that it is safe to buy abortion pills and can use them later. Typically telling people based on research they should be effective 1-2 years after the expiration date for both mifepristone and misoprostol.

The laws have never saved us so we need to share information with people so they can continue to take care of themselves.

Are you concerned at all about a run on the pills and people who actually need them now not being able to obtain them if they end up being stockpiled?  I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've seen some things online about generally NOT doing this en masse right now.

I wouldn’t stock pile plan b (or Ella) or birth control.
However, ordering medication abortion pills from an online pharmacy likely isn’t a problem. There are so many pharmacies and they ship worldwide that I think supply is ok.
During the pandemic worse parts it was harder to get mifepristone due to flights cancelled but you can do a medication. Abortion with misoprostol only.
I’m not saying everyone should buy mife and miso now, especially if you’re privileged and/or can’t get pregnant, but share the information with others so they have accurate info that pills can be bought online and if you don’t use them right away they’re still effective for a couple years.

[sofamonkey]

May 3, 2022 7:38:24 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

May 3, 2022 6:58:03 GMT -5 carmenere said:

The promise of overturning Roe has been an incredibly effective wedge issue for years, especially for white women - for many that was the reason they held their nose and voted for Trump. So I wonder what their political engagement will look like without that wedge and whether they’ll still be as motivated to turn out. I won’t go as far as to call it a silver lining, but maybe a sliver of hope for taking back our democracy.

No.

They’re coming for birth control, marriage equality, and Brown vs the Board of Education next. This is just the beginning.

Exactly. They want every inch they can get so they can take miles. They’re bold, they’re “brave”, and they won’t stop until we fit their moral model. I have no sliver of hope here.

Groups that want their moral model to be followed tend to do so by all means necessary. See: the crusades, all religions fights forever. End results are always mass casualties for victories.

[kadams767]

May 3, 2022 9:02:59 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

May 3, 2022 8:49:25 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Are you concerned at all about a run on the pills and people who actually need them now not being able to obtain them if they end up being stockpiled?  I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've seen some things online about generally NOT doing this en masse right now.

I wouldn’t stock pile plan b (or Ella) or birth control.
However, ordering medication abortion pills from an online pharmacy likely isn’t a problem. There are so many pharmacies and they ship worldwide that I think supply is ok.
During the pandemic worse parts it was harder to get mifepristone due to flights cancelled but you can do a medication. Abortion with misoprostol only.
I’m not saying everyone should buy mife and miso now, especially if you’re privileged and/or can’t get pregnant, but share the information with others so they have accurate info that pills can be bought online and if you don’t use them right away they’re still effective for a couple years.

Understood.  I previously had a medication abortion with no complications and I 100% agree with spreading accurate information on them.  Like you said, I think I am privileged enough that I am statistically unlikely to need it personally at this point in my life, as I am older and live in New York, but I guess I am thinking of all of the what-ifs for people around me.  

[mbcdefg]

Biden’s response:

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/03/statement-by-president-joe-biden-4/

[thedutchgirl]

May 3, 2022 6:54:44 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

May 2, 2022 21:37:28 GMT -5 thedutchgirl said:

I have a lot of thoughts about this, as someone who speaks and writes about the Supreme Court.

First, I am shocked and appalled at the leak. This has never happened in modern history. My colleague who clerked for Scalia says that if was an employee they’ll be fired. If it was a Justice, they should resign or be impeached. I totally agree. I just cannot believe this.

Second, while cold comfort, so much happens between an inflammatory first draft and the final that would come out in late June. Internal politicking and lobbying. Justice Roberts trying to keep people in line. Votes changing. Drafts scrapped or revised. If this is real, it’s not at all final. The outcome doesn’t shock me after arguments but the reasoning and breadth would be very unlikely to look anything like this.

Are you saying that you think they'd change the reasoning from - the constitution is silent on abortion so that's why states should decide - to something else?

I'm honestly fine w/the leak.  The last 3 Justices got their jobs because of deceit, manipulation, and dark money by/from the Republican party.  People need to wake up and see clearly what their goals are.

I'm saying it is possible that parts of the reasoning would change. I'm not fine with the leak, but I have a lot of thoughts about how the Supreme Court is supposed to function as part of the judicial branch, and I do agree that recent nominees haven't worked the way they are supposed to. Gorsuch in particular, as Scalia should have been replaced while Obama was still president.

[mskitkat]

Recurring monthly donation to ARC Southeast is set.

[BeagleMama]

May 3, 2022 8:41:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

So in terms of donations - is it better to donate to clinics in states that are restricting or likely to restrict access, or clinics in states that are unlikely to restrict and thus would be an option for folks to travel to?

I'm considering donating to the clinic in Iowa where I personally had an abortion (which, now that I type that I should have been doing all along....) but if they are going to be shut down anyway, would it be better to donate to one in Illinois that Iowans could potentially travel to if they were unable to obtain care in Iowa anymore?

Also, has anyone heard about any protests or anything happening in DC? I'd like to go if/when that happens. Maybe it will be ongoing?

My personal recommendation would be to donate to the Iowa Abortion Access Fund. Not only do they get funds directly to people needing abortions right now (Iowa and Quad Cities, IL) they work with regional funds to support lodging and transportation as needed. Entirely volunteer board + one very part time client liaison. You can set up a reoccurring donation for as little as $3 a month.

[Saudade]

Along with BeagleMama, recommendation, I have ND WIN Fund www.ndwinfund.org

They provide funds for women in ND, SD, and MN for abortion related care. Fargo, ND has the only clinic in ND, SD, and northern MN.

[Velar Fricative]

Re: all the anger from the GOP about the leak, including McConnell who called for the DOJ to investigate too - if the DOJ goes after the leaker but still hasn't done a damn thing against Trump and his administration, I can't even express the level of anger I will feel.

[laladypoet]

May 3, 2022 9:24:52 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Biden’s response:

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/03/statement-by-president-joe-biden-4/

neat.

[eddy]

May 3, 2022 9:50:32 GMT -5 BeagleMama said:

May 3, 2022 8:41:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

So in terms of donations - is it better to donate to clinics in states that are restricting or likely to restrict access, or clinics in states that are unlikely to restrict and thus would be an option for folks to travel to?

I'm considering donating to the clinic in Iowa where I personally had an abortion (which, now that I type that I should have been doing all along....) but if they are going to be shut down anyway, would it be better to donate to one in Illinois that Iowans could potentially travel to if they were unable to obtain care in Iowa anymore?

Also, has anyone heard about any protests or anything happening in DC? I'd like to go if/when that happens. Maybe it will be ongoing?

My personal recommendation would be to donate to the Iowa Abortion Access Fund. Not only do they get funds directly to people needing abortions right now (Iowa and Quad Cities, IL) they work with regional funds to support lodging and transportation as needed. Entirely volunteer board + one very part time client liaison. You can set up a reoccurring donation for as little as $3 a month.

Thank you- I needed to a bit more vetting before I set up my reoccurring donation to make sure they were where I wanted to give. This is what I needed.