TW @: Uvalde School Shooting 5/24/22

[sent]

Jun 9, 2022 16:23:05 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jun 9, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 @villainv said:

What’s more, a teacher probably WOULD be held liable if they failed to act, while police are not.

A 100%. They initially tried to blame the teacher that propped the door open as to how he got in the building. Come to find out that teacher closed the door which is supposed to automatically lock and it failed to do so.

How long before the blame-seeking officials involved announce that they are going to go after the manufacturer of the lock? I say within a week.

[bernsteincat]

Jun 9, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Jun 9, 2022 16:11:26 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

So the MAGAS and the GOP want teachers who didn’t sign up to be in a fire fight to take down would be gunman but the police who signed up to be in the line of duty and HAVE TRAINING get to wait for protective equipment and delay going in. YOU SIGNED UP TO BE THE “GOOD GUY WITH A GUN.”

What’s more, a teacher probably WOULD be held liable if they failed to act, while police are not.

And this is why if open carry for teachers becomes a thing I my school, I’m out. I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of all of American culture.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2022 17:07:08 GMT -5 bernsteincat said:

Jun 9, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 @villainv said:

What’s more, a teacher probably WOULD be held liable if they failed to act, while police are not.

And this is why if open carry for teachers becomes a thing I my school, I’m out. I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of all of American culture.

My husband and I have NO desire to send him (teacher) and our child to work/school at a place where people are carrying weapons.

If this happens, I’m honestly terrified for Black and brown kids — how long before a teacher shoots a kid for misbehaving in school?

[TamiTaylor]

I keep coming back to this and I keep getting angrier. His quote that he was waiting for protective equipment “to preserve more life” is so fucking selfish and fucked. The victims in that room didn’t get any such luxury and they could have save more lives if they made entry. He really just means he wanted to preserve his life.

[sonrisa]

Jun 9, 2022 18:01:29 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Jun 9, 2022 17:07:08 GMT -5 bernsteincat said:

And this is why if open carry for teachers becomes a thing I my school, I’m out. I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of all of American culture.

My husband and I have NO desire to send him (teacher) and our child to work/school at a place where people are carrying weapons.

If this happens, I’m honestly terrified for Black and brown kids — how long before a teacher shoots a kid for misbehaving in school?

Yes. "Accidentally" because they pointed it at the kid thinking it wasn't loaded "just to scare him" - but OOPS it went off.

And other people will get harmed by legit accidents - because people who shouldn't be carrying guns to work are bringing them into situations with kids. I don't even send glitter to school because it will end in an accidental mess.

[bernsteincat]

Jun 9, 2022 18:01:29 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Jun 9, 2022 17:07:08 GMT -5 bernsteincat said:

And this is why if open carry for teachers becomes a thing I my school, I’m out. I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of all of American culture.

My husband and I have NO desire to send him (teacher) and our child to work/school at a place where people are carrying weapons.

If this happens, I’m honestly terrified for Black and brown kids — how long before a teacher shoots a kid for misbehaving in school?

There are at least 2 teachers in my building right now that should never be trusted with guns because they are that unstable in their classroom management, based on reports from students and other teachers alike. I feel like that is a MAJOR part of this that people are not willing to talk about. Those hot headed teachers that pop off at anything should never be given the option of brandishing a loaded weapon in the classroom.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2022 19:40:10 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jun 9, 2022 18:01:29 GMT -5 @villainv said:

My husband and I have NO desire to send him (teacher) and our child to work/school at a place where people are carrying weapons.

If this happens, I’m honestly terrified for Black and brown kids — how long before a teacher shoots a kid for misbehaving in school?

Yes. "Accidentally" because they pointed it at the kid thinking it wasn't loaded "just to scare him" - but OOPS it went off.

And other people will get harmed by legit accidents - because people who shouldn't be carrying guns to work are bringing them into situations with kids. I don't even send glitter to school because it will end in an accidental mess.

I see them trying to us “self-defense/stand your ground” to justify it. Fight breaks out, black kid gets shot (regardless of who may have instigated it). If it happens with police, it will happen with teachers.

ETA: obviously not all teachers….but there is a ton of unconscious bias in teaching just like in law enforcement. And a ton of overt bias. I just don’t see it ending well.

[theoriginalbean]

Jun 9, 2022 16:19:11 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Yesterday and today’s news is gutting me all over again.

I know most of you have been at this a lot longer than I have, but my 20 month old had his first lockdown shooter drill at daycare today and I’m beside myself. How did we get to this point? How the fuck can we go on like this? It has to change.

I cry a lot. I was in the building during one a few years back and it broke me. My younger has one tomorrow and I'm considering keeping her home, but they also made the day popcorn/pajama/stuffed animal day and the cognitive dissonance of those two things being on the same day is just too much.

[formerlyak]

Any time it comes in the news I try and distract my 8 year old. He knows what happen. But I don’t want him to hear 911 calls and recounts from the doctor. He’s just so young. Last night when they played video of the testimony of the 4th grader who survived by putting her friend’s blood in her and playing dead, I again tried to distract him. He said, “Mom, be quiet. I want to hear her story.” 😥

[shauni27]

Jun 9, 2022 16:19:11 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Yesterday and today’s news is gutting me all over again.

I know most of you have been at this a lot longer than I have, but my 20 month old had his first lockdown shooter drill at daycare today and I’m beside myself. How did we get to this point? How the fuck can we go on like this? It has to change.

i spent a portion of yesterday in tears thinking that when S starts elementary school next year, he will have to start doing lockdown drills. Just sobbing.

[formerlyak]

To the parents of littles worried about the drills, I get it. I was horrified to learn that’s a part of school now. But learning how our district does them made me a bit less worried about the mental impact on my kids. They do a series of drills at the start of each year. Fire. Earthquake. Intruder (that’s what they call it here - intruder drill). I feel like making it part of a series of back to school drills makes it feel less scary for the kids. And as a planner, I like knowing that if something happened, he has a plan in his mind. Fire - he knows his class’ spot. Earthquake - he knows how to get under his desk and hold on. Intruder - if he can run, he knows which house to run to based on where he is on campus. I guess after 11 years of these with two kids, I just got used to it unfortunately.

I should add, maybe call your district to see what they do.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2022 7:17:29 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Any time it comes in the news I try and distract my 8 year old. He knows what happen. But I don’t want him to hear 911 calls and recounts from the doctor. He’s just so young. Last night when they played video of the testimony of the 4th grader who survived by putting her friend’s blood in her and playing dead, I again tried to distract him. He said, “Mom, be quiet. I want to hear her story.” 😥

This is a great point! My friends who are mental health professionals recommend NOT exposing kids to news stories about Uvalde, even if they know what happened. This was a big wake up call for H and I because we tend to have news on in the background most of the time — we’ve switched to Food Network and HGTV unless we are actively watching and are sure C’s not in earshot.

[lilac05]

formerlyak, that’s what ours does. As crazy as it is to us (and how wrong it is that such a thing is even needed), our district does a great job of just making it a pet of their routine. We had fire & tornado drills, they have fire, tornado, and ALICE drills. Parents always get a heads up when it is going to take place, too, so they can talk to their kids if they might be sensitive or fearful.

I have big feelings about these things, but they school handles it amazingly well, and for my kids, it’s just their normal. They usually don’t even tell me that they had a drill.

[formerlyak]

Jun 10, 2022 8:08:42 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Jun 10, 2022 7:17:29 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Any time it comes in the news I try and distract my 8 year old. He knows what happen. But I don’t want him to hear 911 calls and recounts from the doctor. He’s just so young. Last night when they played video of the testimony of the 4th grader who survived by putting her friend’s blood in her and playing dead, I again tried to distract him. He said, “Mom, be quiet. I want to hear her story.” 😥

This is a great point! My friends who are mental health professionals recommend NOT exposing kids to news stories about Uvalde, even if they know what happened. This was a big wake up call for H and I because we tend to have news on in the background most of the time — we’ve switched to Food Network and HGTV unless we are actively watching and are sure C’s not in earshot.

It was a weird moment for me. On one hand, I don’t want stories like these to be the stories he hears about his peers. On the other hand, he seemed to handle it ok and maybe they need to hear the stories from kids if they handle it ok and it will inspire their generation to do better than the current lawmakers. The Columbine kids are 40 now. The politicians who are holding this up are much older. As kids who had to live through these horrors get older, maybe they will be better at making the changes happen. Or maybe I’m in a rare optimistic mood in general today.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jun 9, 2022 19:44:55 GMT -5 bernsteincat said:

Jun 9, 2022 18:01:29 GMT -5 @villainv said:

My husband and I have NO desire to send him (teacher) and our child to work/school at a place where people are carrying weapons.

If this happens, I’m honestly terrified for Black and brown kids — how long before a teacher shoots a kid for misbehaving in school?

There are at least 2 teachers in my building right now that should never be trusted with guns because they are that unstable in their classroom management, based on reports from students and other teachers alike. I feel like that is a MAJOR part of this that people are not willing to talk about. Those hot headed teachers that pop off at anything should never be given the option of brandishing a loaded weapon in the classroom.

This is one of the things I keep going back to when this idea comes up... I can remember 2 teachers from my time in school that absolutely would've shot a kid if they'd been armed.

Neither of these 2 should've been teachers in the first place (and I think they've both since retired) but I'm guessing everyone has at least one teacher from youth they can think of like this.

The other big thing I keep going back to is that a kid will his hands on a teacher's gun at some point.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 10, 2022 7:42:42 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

To the parents of littles worried about the drills, I get it. I was horrified to learn that’s a part of school now. But learning how our district does them made me a bit less worried about the mental impact on my kids. They do a series of drills at the start of each year. Fire. Earthquake. Intruder (that’s what they call it here - intruder drill). I feel like making it part of a series of back to school drills makes it feel less scary for the kids. And as a planner, I like knowing that if something happened, he has a plan in his mind. Fire - he knows his class’ spot. Earthquake - he knows how to get under his desk and hold on. Intruder - if he can run, he knows which house to run to based on where he is on campus. I guess after 11 years of these with two kids, I just got used to it unfortunately.

I should add, maybe call your district to see what they do.

This is fair, although my issue isn’t necessarily the way they do the drills. It’s a daycare so the kids are mostly too little to understand anything at all and they aren’t given much context. It’s a pretty gentle drill compared to what some older kids go through. It’s more the concept that a daycare that is just a daycare - not attached to any larger school or anything - would even need to contemplate having a shooter drill. The fact that anyone has to plan for these things and we’ve decided this is an acceptable trade off because some people want to own these sorts of dangerous weapons is pretty unbearable even if I understand realistically that it probably needs to happen for safety’s sake.

[NewOrleans]

One of the surviving children went into cardiac arrest after her best friend’s funeral and is still in the ICU. 😭

people.com/crime/uvalde-survivor-hospitalized-after-trauma-losing-best-friend/?amp=true

[NewOrleans]

The school police chief says he wasn’t in charge. Jesus Christ.

Arredondo, who told the Tribune he believed that carrying radios would slow him down as he entered the school and that he knew that radios did not work in some school buildings, said he never considered himself the scene's incident commander and did not give any instruction that police should not attempt to breach the building.

"I didn't issue any orders," Arredondo said. "I called for assistance and asked for an extraction tool to open the door."

www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/uvalde-school-police-chief-pete-arredondo-defends-texas-shooting-response

[NewOrleans]

My God these people are all so wicked. They are exploiting every loophole imaginable to deny any info.  You really have to read it in its entirety to understand what they are doing. 

ProPublica and The Texas Tribune have submitted about 70 public information requests that could help answer larger questions as state and local leaders continue to offer conflicting accounts about why law enforcement did not confront the gunman sooner during the May 24 massacre. Those requests include 911 audio recordings, body and police car camera footage, and communications among local, state and federal agencies. The newsrooms also requested use-of-force documents, death records and ballistic reports.

Three weeks after the shooting, government officials have not provided the news organizations a single record related to the emergency response.

Abbott’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state’s attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

Among the arguments provided by government entities for withholding such documents is one from DPS stating that releasing records like footage from body cameras would provide criminals with “invaluable information” about its investigative techniques, information sharing and criminal analysis.

www.propublica.org/article/texas-agencies-fight-releasing-records-that-could-help-clarify-response-to-uvalde-school-shooting

[jeaniebueller]

Jun 16, 2022 8:50:35 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

My God these people are all so wicked. They are exploiting every loophole imaginable to deny any info.  You really have to read it in its entirety to understand what they are doing. 

ProPublica and The Texas Tribune have submitted about 70 public information requests that could help answer larger questions as state and local leaders continue to offer conflicting accounts about why law enforcement did not confront the gunman sooner during the May 24 massacre. Those requests include 911 audio recordings, body and police car camera footage, and communications among local, state and federal agencies. The newsrooms also requested use-of-force documents, death records and ballistic reports.

Three weeks after the shooting, government officials have not provided the news organizations a single record related to the emergency response.

Abbott’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state’s attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

Among the arguments provided by government entities for withholding such documents is one from DPS stating that releasing records like footage from body cameras would provide criminals with “invaluable information” about its investigative techniques, information sharing and criminal analysis.

www.propublica.org/article/texas-agencies-fight-releasing-records-that-could-help-clarify-response-to-uvalde-school-shooting

I think these people are trash but its not unusual to deny a FOIA request while an ongoing investigation is going on. I'm not saying they are doing that in good faith, but its not unheard of.

[NewOrleans]

Jun 16, 2022 9:17:01 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jun 16, 2022 8:50:35 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

My God these people are all so wicked. They are exploiting every loophole imaginable to deny any info.  You really have to read it in its entirety to understand what they are doing. 

ProPublica and The Texas Tribune have submitted about 70 public information requests that could help answer larger questions as state and local leaders continue to offer conflicting accounts about why law enforcement did not confront the gunman sooner during the May 24 massacre. Those requests include 911 audio recordings, body and police car camera footage, and communications among local, state and federal agencies. The newsrooms also requested use-of-force documents, death records and ballistic reports.

Three weeks after the shooting, government officials have not provided the news organizations a single record related to the emergency response.

Abbott’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state’s attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

Among the arguments provided by government entities for withholding such documents is one from DPS stating that releasing records like footage from body cameras would provide criminals with “invaluable information” about its investigative techniques, information sharing and criminal analysis.

www.propublica.org/article/texas-agencies-fight-releasing-records-that-could-help-clarify-response-to-uvalde-school-shooting

I think these people are trash but its not unusual to deny a FOIA request while an ongoing investigation is going on. I'm not saying they are doing that in good faith, but its not unheard of.

The article addresses that.

[suburbanzookeeper]

The fact that they're still dragging their feet but we were able to quickly get all the things surrounding Beer Me handled swiftly is a bitter pill to swallow.

Not just because we have an interest in knowing, we need to know for the next time (because there will be because we refuse to enact anything meaningful) where all the training and support systems can go wrong.

[secretagent]

Jun 10, 2022 9:19:28 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 10, 2022 7:42:42 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

To the parents of littles worried about the drills, I get it. I was horrified to learn that’s a part of school now. But learning how our district does them made me a bit less worried about the mental impact on my kids. They do a series of drills at the start of each year. Fire. Earthquake. Intruder (that’s what they call it here - intruder drill). I feel like making it part of a series of back to school drills makes it feel less scary for the kids. And as a planner, I like knowing that if something happened, he has a plan in his mind. Fire - he knows his class’ spot. Earthquake - he knows how to get under his desk and hold on. Intruder - if he can run, he knows which house to run to based on where he is on campus. I guess after 11 years of these with two kids, I just got used to it unfortunately.

I should add, maybe call your district to see what they do.

This is fair, although my issue isn’t necessarily the way they do the drills. It’s a daycare so the kids are mostly too little to understand anything at all and they aren’t given much context. It’s a pretty gentle drill compared to what some older kids go through. It’s more the concept that a daycare that is just a daycare - not attached to any larger school or anything - would even need to contemplate having a shooter drill. The fact that anyone has to plan for these things and we’ve decided this is an acceptable trade off because some people want to own these sorts of dangerous weapons is pretty unbearable even if I understand realistically that it probably needs to happen for safety’s sake.

My kids have been "doing" these drills since they were 4 months old. They don't bat an eye. Hide in the corner quietly? OK. Take a long evacuation walk? OK.  It breaks my heart.  Even my kid who has serious anxiety is not phased by the drills.  She did get a little shook up when I was asking after Uvalde what the lockdown protocol is in her current school (she's in middle now) and it occurred to her the music room has doors to the stage and the hallway but I told her I thought backstage with all the crap there would be a great hiding place and she calmed down (also, I think is legit and WTF to this conversation in general). 

It is just unbearable and I do not understand why peoples' obsessive hobbies outweigh the value of our lives.

[NewOrleans]

Worse and worse still, no bottom in sight. The city hired a private lawyer to fight the FOIA requests and then in a more insidious move, is trying to get every single one thrown out en masse.


the city’s lawyer, Cynthia Trevino, who works for the private law firm Denton Navarro Rocha Bernal & Zech, wrote a letter to Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton for a determination about what information it is required to release to the public, which is standard practice in Texas. Paxton's office will eventually rule which of the city's arguments have merit and will determine which, if any, public records it is required to release.

The letter makes clear, however, that the city and its police department want to be exempted from releasing a wide variety of records in part because it is being sued, in part because some of the records could include “highly embarrassing information,” in part because some of the information is “not of legitimate concern to the public,” in part because the information could reveal “methods, techniques, and strategies for preventing and predicting crime,” in part because some of the information may cause or may "regard … emotional/mental distress," and in part because its response to the shooting is being investigated by the Texas Rangers, the FBI, and the Uvalde County District Attorney.

Schneider says that lumping together all 148 public records requests, and asking for a legal ruling on everything at once, seems like a tactic to prevent the release of anything and everything.


www.vice.com/amp/en/article/88q95p/uvalde-contracts-private-law-firm-to-argue-it-doesnt-have-to-release-school-shooting-public-records

[abs]

No bottom in sight indeed. There is a special place in hell for these officers.

www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Uvalde-classroom-doors-17251197.php?utm_campaign=premiumchron_breakingnews_20220618&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 18, 2022 19:04:12 GMT -5 abs said:

No bottom in sight indeed. There is a special place in hell for these officers.

www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Uvalde-classroom-doors-17251197.php?utm_campaign=premiumchron_breakingnews_20220618&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

This is behind a paywall for me. What is the article?

[abs]

Jun 18, 2022 19:11:46 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Jun 18, 2022 19:04:12 GMT -5 abs said:

No bottom in sight indeed. There is a special place in hell for these officers.

www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Uvalde-classroom-doors-17251197.php?utm_campaign=premiumchron_breakingnews_20220618&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

This is behind a paywall for me. What is the article?

I’m trying to find another article but the gist is the police never even tried to open the door for 77 minutes according to surveillance cameras. Whether the door was actually locked is still under investigation but just another level of failure in how good guys with guns don’t exist.

[NewOrleans]

Jun 18, 2022 19:11:46 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Jun 18, 2022 19:04:12 GMT -5 abs said:

No bottom in sight indeed. There is a special place in hell for these officers.

www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Uvalde-classroom-doors-17251197.php?utm_campaign=premiumchron_breakingnews_20220618&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

This is behind a paywall for me. What is the article?

Same problem but I believe this is the author on Twitter:

For more than an hour, police never tried to open a door to the rooms where a gunman massacred 21 people at Robb Elementary, a source tells me.

The gunman could not have locked it from the inside. The doors can only be locked or unlocked from outside.

In any case, police had a tool to force open a locked door the entire time, the source said.

[estrellita]

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

[lo]

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

That’s how it is for the doors at my school. When we do lockdown drills I have to open my door, lock it with a key, and then close it again.