TW @: Uvalde School Shooting 5/24/22

[mskitkat]

Jul 13, 2022 20:20:47 GMT -5 sent said:

Have they stopped shouting that the solution is to arm the teachers? Because this certainly puts that "solution" in the garbage. There's no way an armed teacher would have made all the difference here, what with all those good guys with guns roaming the hallway.

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

[sent]

One of my dental colleagues posted about the difficulty of finding skilled labor in our field. For context, there are these portable x-ray machines out there in a handheld gun-shaped device. He brought up the point that Texas requires an exam and a license to be able to shoot a gun that emits x-rays but no license necessary to shoot a gun that can kill people instantly. That comment really hit me in the heart. Texas has all of its priorities messed up.

[isabel]

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Jul 13, 2022 20:20:47 GMT -5 sent said:

Have they stopped shouting that the solution is to arm the teachers? Because this certainly puts that "solution" in the garbage. There's no way an armed teacher would have made all the difference here, what with all those good guys with guns roaming the hallway.

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

I will immediately pull my kids from school if they arm teachers. I don’t know what the hell I would do to educate them, but my children will not spend the majority of their week in a building surrounded by guns. This is just fucking appalling.

[pierogigirl]

Jul 15, 2022 8:26:52 GMT -5 isabel said:

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

I will immediately pull my kids from school if they arm teachers. I don’t know what the hell I would do to educate them, but my children will not spend the majority of their week in a building surrounded by guns. This is just fucking appalling.

I also think many teachers (I am one) would leave the profession if their school armed teachers. There is already a teacher shortage - this would make it worse. I am hopeful that this is where unions could be helpful. I live in a blue state and I can't imagine guns would ever be allowed in schools here, but I am constantly surprised at how low Rs can go.

[Pom]

Jul 15, 2022 11:01:58 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

Jul 15, 2022 8:26:52 GMT -5 isabel said:

I will immediately pull my kids from school if they arm teachers. I don’t know what the hell I would do to educate them, but my children will not spend the majority of their week in a building surrounded by guns. This is just fucking appalling.

I also think many teachers (I am one) would leave the profession if their school armed teachers. There is already a teacher shortage - this would make it worse. I am hopeful that this is where unions could be helpful. I live in a blue state and I can't imagine guns would ever be allowed in schools here, but I am constantly surprised at how low Rs can go.

It feels like having responsible, concerned teachers leaving the profession is exactly what R's are hoping for...good educators set to leave the profession brings school vouchers forward with religious indoctrinated teachers to make the likes of Betsy DeVos even richer. Guns and shit racist religious schools, is a GQP win-win wet dream. Ugh, it all makes me want to scream.  

[pierogigirl]

Jul 15, 2022 12:29:35 GMT -5 Pom said:

Jul 15, 2022 11:01:58 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

I also think many teachers (I am one) would leave the profession if their school armed teachers. There is already a teacher shortage - this would make it worse. I am hopeful that this is where unions could be helpful. I live in a blue state and I can't imagine guns would ever be allowed in schools here, but I am constantly surprised at how low Rs can go.

It feels like having responsible, concerned teachers leaving the profession is exactly what R's are hoping for...good educators set to leave the profession brings school vouchers forward with religious indoctrinated teachers to make the likes of Betsy DeVos even richer. Guns and shit racist religious schools, is a GQP win-win wet dream. Ugh, it all makes me want to scream.  

I agree that this is part of the plan.

[bernsteincat]

Jul 15, 2022 11:01:58 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

Jul 15, 2022 8:26:52 GMT -5 isabel said:

I will immediately pull my kids from school if they arm teachers. I don’t know what the hell I would do to educate them, but my children will not spend the majority of their week in a building surrounded by guns. This is just fucking appalling.

I also think many teachers (I am one) would leave the profession if their school armed teachers. There is already a teacher shortage - this would make it worse. I am hopeful that this is where unions could be helpful. I live in a blue state and I can't imagine guns would ever be allowed in schools here, but I am constantly surprised at how low Rs can go.

I am another. This will be my hill to die on. I will not be further responsible for the lives of these kids.

[MixedBerryJam]

Jul 11, 2022 7:57:42 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Jul 6, 2022 22:44:22 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

And that is also a terrible issue of open carry laws or allowing people to have guns at schools. How can you prove if someone walking with an assault rifle is a “good guy” or “bad guy” unless you wait to see if they murder someone? If our police forces weren’t morally bankrupt, more would be advocating for sensible gun control to make their own jobs safer and easier.

I’m late to the game here but this has been my latest rumination. At a school, in a Home Depot parking lot, heck even at a gun range. If open carry is the law of the land, and abbot has made this His Thing, how in the world can you prevent another Uvalde/Buffalo/HP/etc in the first place? I don’t blame the officer for not shooting. Can we just start randomly shooting people with guns that are walking into schools and grocery stores? Sorry (not sorry) but open carry laws are bs all around, endangering every last one of us. (I’m not in Tx.)

Quoting myself bc I wanted to pick up the conversation here. So while I haven’t read the report, they just had the presser and answered questions. I couldn’t hear the questions but in one of the answers the guy leading the presser mentioned the guy who didn’t shoot the shooter outside bc he was waiting for the okay from his supervisor… that wasn't the shooter at all, it was the gym teacher. Imagine if that officer had shot?

[winecat]

Jul 17, 2022 18:08:47 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Jul 11, 2022 7:57:42 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

I’m late to the game here but this has been my latest rumination. At a school, in a Home Depot parking lot, heck even at a gun range. If open carry is the law of the land, and abbot has made this His Thing, how in the world can you prevent another Uvalde/Buffalo/HP/etc in the first place? I don’t blame the officer for not shooting. Can we just start randomly shooting people with guns that are walking into schools and grocery stores? Sorry (not sorry) but open carry laws are bs all around, endangering every last one of us. (I’m not in Tx.)

Quoting myself bc I wanted to pick up the conversation here. So while I haven’t read the report, they just had the presser and answered questions. I couldn’t hear the questions but in one of the answers the guy leading the presser mentioned the guy who didn’t shoot the shooter outside bc he was waiting for the okay from his supervisor… that wasn't the shooter at all, it was the gym teacher. Imagine if that officer had shot?

They are saying that the individual identified in the video as the killer outside of the school wasn't actually the killer?  

[MixedBerryJam]

Jul 17, 2022 18:34:49 GMT -5 winecat said:

Jul 17, 2022 18:08:47 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Quoting myself bc I wanted to pick up the conversation here. So while I haven’t read the report, they just had the presser and answered questions. I couldn’t hear the questions but in one of the answers the guy leading the presser mentioned the guy who didn’t shoot the shooter outside bc he was waiting for the okay from his supervisor… that wasn't the shooter at all, it was the gym teacher. Imagine if that officer had shot?

They are saying that the individual identified in the video as the killer outside of the school wasn't actually the killer?  

I hope I didn’t mess up this quote this quote but yes, that was my understanding. He specifically said it was a gym teacher. But also I wasn’t aware there was a video; I thought he was saying the LEO saw the gym teacher entering the building but thought that it was the killer entering the building. So maybe I’m misunderstanding and conflating two separate incidents?

[winecat]

Jul 17, 2022 18:58:01 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Jul 17, 2022 18:34:49 GMT -5 winecat said:

They are saying that the individual identified in the video as the killer outside of the school wasn't actually the killer?  

I hope I didn’t mess up this quote this quote but yes, that was my understanding. He specifically said it was a gym teacher. But also I wasn’t aware there was a video; I thought he was saying the LEO saw the gym teacher entering the building but thought that it was the killer entering the building. So maybe I’m misunderstanding and conflating two separate incidents?

There is video of the killer entering the school.  I thought that was who LEO saw.  There's no way that the killer looked like a gym teacher.  

[NewOrleans]

400 police on the scene and still they wouldn’t save the babies. But let’s put more in schools so they can run away, hide, and sanitize their hands.

www.npr.org/2022/07/17/1111928866/uvalde-school-shooting-report

[NewOrleans]

“Uvalde Shooting Highlights Role of Doors in Security Plans” by Deborah Paredez
—AP News headline

The teacher remembers pulling the door
closed. She thought the door
would lock because that door
is always supposed to lock. The door
failed to lock. They say when god closes a door
the shooter will fire through the door’s

windows. At first they said she left the door
open and the shooter got through the door.
She remembers she had opened the door
to carry in supplies, propping the door
open with a rock. But she closed the door
when she heard the shooter just outside the doors.

I ran back into the building. I still had the rock in the door.
So—I opened the door—
kicked the rock—and then locked the door.
Later, they verified she had closed the door
and the door
did not lock. Later, there will be a closed-door

inquiry at the state Capitol. It’s through the closed door
that all the men with guns will enter. The classroom doors
have windows above the knobs. The glass on one door
shatters from gunfire and a man walks through the door-
frame and fires more than 100 rounds. A thin blue door
connects one classroom to another. He shot the door,

a girl in the classroom tells the 911 dispatcher. Through the door
bullets graze two officers and they retreat farther from the door.
No other men with guns will go near the classroom door
for another forty minutes. They said they needed the door’s
key from the janitor. It remains unclear if they tried the door
to see if it was locked. The girl calls again and watches the door

and covers herself in her dead friend’s blood and this is how the door
between heaven and hell cracks open. The door-
way is a thin blue line. The men with guns unlock the door
and shoot the shooter who shoots back from the closet door-
frame. The governor orders all the schools to check their doors
each week and all the doors everywhere come unhinged and every door

is a door is a door is a door is a door
is a door is a door is a door is a door
is a door is a door is a door is a door.

[Deleted]

“The doorway [between heaven and hell] is a thin blue line” indeed.

[TamiTaylor]

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Jul 13, 2022 20:20:47 GMT -5 sent said:

Have they stopped shouting that the solution is to arm the teachers? Because this certainly puts that "solution" in the garbage. There's no way an armed teacher would have made all the difference here, what with all those good guys with guns roaming the hallway.

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

And where are they getting all this money to arm teachers? We can’t even have enough paper to make it through an entire school year.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 26, 2022 13:43:30 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

And where are they getting all this money to arm teachers? We can’t even have enough paper to make it through an entire school year.

You buy it yourself with the pencils and other supplies.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2022 13:43:30 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

And where are they getting all this money to arm teachers? We can’t even have enough paper to make it through an entire school year.

Last year my husband’s school made him buy his own printer! And the paper and toner to go with it.

[cherryvalance]

Jul 26, 2022 13:43:30 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jul 14, 2022 20:50:51 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

A local school district just voted tonight to arm teachers at the discretion of the REALLY SHITTY superintendent.

And where are they getting all this money to arm teachers? We can’t even have enough paper to make it through an entire school year.

I asked this in, of all places, the comment section of Stanley Tucci's Tiktok. I was told that those who chose to carry would be responsible for their own weapons, as well as all classes/training. I don't remember what their argument was IRT insurance.

Because if we're introducing more weapons in a fucking school, we might as well limit all oversight, too!

[suburbanzookeeper]

Gifted article: wapo.st/3PLxkcH (MAJOR TW, discusses injuries to named children)

UVALDE VIDEO SHOWS FLAWED MEDICAL RESPONSE TO ROBB SCHOOL SHOOTING

"It’s difficult to know whether Mireles or anyone else who died that day might have survived their wounds, in part because local officials have refused to release autopsy reports. But footage shows that Mireles was conscious and responsive when she was pulled from the classroom, an indicator that she probably had survivable wounds, according to medical experts.

“Had medics gotten to her quickly, there’s a good chance she would’ve survived,” said Babak Sarani, director of critical care at George Washington University Hospital."

"The crew of an AirLIFE helicopter grounded in Uvalde for maintenance heard the unfolding chaos on the radio and offered to help. The crew later told investigators that the emergency responders they talked to had rejected their assistance repeatedly. They did not provide the names of those responders."

As someone who's trained in working quickly to establish unified command in an emergency, I didn't think this could continue to get worse.

Our school board was just taken over by people who were endorsed by our right wing sheriff, I could absolutely see his ego preventing care in an event of something happening here.

[niemand88f]

Dec 22, 2022 20:56:05 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

Gifted article: wapo.st/3PLxkcH (MAJOR TW, discusses injuries to named children)

.....

As someone who's trained in working quickly to establish unified command in an emergency, I didn't think this could continue to get worse.

Our school board was just taken over by people who were endorsed by our right wing sheriff, I could absolutely see his ego preventing care in an event of something happening here.

Wow, I also didn't think there was much else that could make this horrific shooting worse. But this information is just so infuriating and awful. With all the delay in stopping the shooter, I assumed there was time to get medical resources in place and that victims died mostly because of the LE delay. But no, medical was a failure too (I'm sure the individual medics did everything they could and feel awful, there was just no access or coordination).

[erbear]

That is just so depressing and keeps getting worse. I’d love to think that if (god forbid) I am ever shot in my classroom, AT LEAST my family could know that the medics and cops did everything they could to keep me alive. How do these people still have jobs?

[estrellita]

I can't believe how it keeps getting worse. How are the VICTIMS the only people who did anything right in this situation? Literally no one was there for them 😭

[basilosaurus]

I'm confused. I thought there had been EMS on the ground waiting but were delayed entry. Knowing what we know about the shitshow of police, letting this info out so much later seems like blame shifting as they've already done for awhile in many directions.

Sure, they definitely shouldn't have turned down an offer of airlift. But is it possible there was no room to land nearby? That if the crew weren't intending to leave soon, ambulance service thought they could get to them if need be? I'm just not fully buying this story atm. Maybe I'm biased (ok, there's no maybe) in wanting to defend medical and blame police.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2022 1:14:32 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I'm confused. I thought there had been EMS on the ground waiting but were delayed entry. Knowing what we know about the shitshow of police, letting this info out so much later seems like blame shifting as they've already done for awhile in many directions.

Sure, they definitely shouldn't have turned down an offer of airlift. But is it possible there was no room to land nearby? That if the crew weren't intending to leave soon, ambulance service thought they could get to them if need be? I'm just not fully buying this story atm. Maybe I'm biased (ok, there's no maybe) in wanting to defend medical and blame police.

My takeaway is that the poor police response impeded the medical response,as they were all under the same incident commander. Basically one more major way that Arredondo botched this. Not enough ambulances close enough, poor communication, police cars blocked access, etc. I didn’t sense that the article was implying any blame fell to the medical personnel.

[NewOrleans]

How are any of them walking freely on the streets of Texas? Every single person on the scene was criminally incompetent.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 23, 2022 5:28:17 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Dec 23, 2022 1:14:32 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I'm confused. I thought there had been EMS on the ground waiting but were delayed entry. Knowing what we know about the shitshow of police, letting this info out so much later seems like blame shifting as they've already done for awhile in many directions.

Sure, they definitely shouldn't have turned down an offer of airlift. But is it possible there was no room to land nearby? That if the crew weren't intending to leave soon, ambulance service thought they could get to them if need be? I'm just not fully buying this story atm. Maybe I'm biased (ok, there's no maybe) in wanting to defend medical and blame police.

My takeaway is that the poor police response impeded the medical response,as they were all under the same incident commander. Basically one more major way that Arredondo botched this. Not enough ambulances close enough, poor communication, police cars blocked access, etc. I didn’t sense that the article W’s implying any blame fell to the medical personnel.

it sounds like some of the medical staff on the scene were just as incompetent:

She [the teacher] lay on the ground for more than 10 minutes, during which six ambulances arrived and two left. It’s unclear why Mireles was not immediately put into one of these ambulances.

Ultimately, medics moved Mireles off the ground and into an ambulance.

But they did not take her to a hospital, a decision some experts described as a mistake and others said could indicate that medics thought Mireles had no chance of survival.

First responders continued CPR in the ambulance for about 40 minutes before the chief medic for Uvalde EMS declared her dead.

The ambulance that Mireles was inside never left the school curb.

[suburbanzookeeper]

Dec 23, 2022 1:14:32 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I'm confused. I thought there had been EMS on the ground waiting but were delayed entry. Knowing what we know about the shitshow of police, letting this info out so much later seems like blame shifting as they've already done for awhile in many directions.

Sure, they definitely shouldn't have turned down an offer of airlift. But is it possible there was no room to land nearby? That if the crew weren't intending to leave soon, ambulance service thought they could get to them if need be? I'm just not fully buying this story atm. Maybe I'm biased (ok, there's no maybe) in wanting to defend medical and blame police.

I think it's more addressing how this all fell apart without following the training that we're all supposed to receive. I practice this annually, including setting up unified command, even if it means we're not the leading agency (egos have no place in emergencies). While there was some failure on the ground as described (medics chose to work on patients on the ground instead of nearby ambulances, ambulances not being positioned in the most accessible pathway, etc.) the fact that federal/state/local PD left their cars *in the roadway* while locked which literally prevented ground transportation from getting properly aligned to maximize patient contact and care... it's bad. 

As the article stated, most of this training became SOP after Columbine and gets reinforced regularly and updated after most major events. None of this should have been unique to the situation that would have resulted in the outcome that was had.