TW @: Uvalde School Shooting 5/24/22

[Dznyprnces]

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

That’s how it was at my old school. But the building was old and those were the original door handles. Definitely built before the times of updated school security. They did switch them out a couple years ago to handles that locked from the inside.

[erbear]

Jun 18, 2022 22:52:09 GMT -5 lo said:

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

That’s how it is for the doors at my school. When we do lockdown drills I have to open my door, lock it with a key, and then close it again.

Mine too. My door only locks from the outside. In a lockdown, I have to go into the hallway and lock it. I do have a deadbolt I can lock from inside.

[akayf]

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

Another teacher chiming in. Our classroom doors also only lock from the outside with a key. Policy is classroom doors are to be locked at all times. Every room has a magnetic strip that covers the lock plate on the door frame so you can just pull the door open to enter the room instead of needing to use a key every single time. If there is a lockdown, an adult quickly opens the door an inch and removes the strip. No need to run out on the hall and lock the door. Building security guards and admin check doors through out the day to see if they are in the locked position and will lock them if needed(after opening door and reminding staff that doors are supposed to be locked)

If you work in a school that has classroom doors that lock from the outside, I highly recommend your building get strips for the door. At the beginning of the year when we go over all safety procedures, they remind us to use the strips and to let the office know if your classroom needs a new one.

[estrellita]

Jun 19, 2022 17:43:15 GMT -5 akayf said:

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

Another teacher chiming in. Our classroom doors also only lock from the outside with a key. Policy is classroom doors are to be locked at all times. Every room has a magnetic strip that covers the lock plate on the door frame so you can just pull the door open to enter the room instead of needing to use a key every single time. If there is a lockdown, an adult quickly opens the door an inch and removes the strip. No need to run out on the hall and lock the door. Building security guards and admin check doors through out the day to see if they are in the locked position and will lock them if needed(after opening door and reminding staff that doors are supposed to be locked)

If you work in a school that has classroom doors that lock from the outside, I highly recommend your building get strips for the door. At the beginning of the year when we go over all safety procedures, they remind us to use the strips and to let the office know if your classroom needs a new one.

I had no idea this was so common! My anxious mind goes to the key getting in the wrong hands or getting trapped in the room. Makes me wonder what the safety features are at E's school and if their doors are like this.

[AJL]

***PDQ*** I am fairly confident in the reliability of this information, but since I haven't verified it personally, I may delete it soon. I'm in a private Facebook group of teachers and parents for our school district. We have people from other Texas school districts also involved in the group. The group admin was contacted by a teacher from Robb Elementary to share the information below. Silent alarms are a safety measure that have been considered by many districts and are used in some schools already. 

According to this teacher from Robb Elementary, a silent alarm was deployed to notify teachers about the active shooter on May 24. 

"Hello, fellow educators. I am a teacher at Robb Elementary.

While many actions are still being investigated, I felt a strong need to get the word out to you all to fight against “silent alarms.”

I don’t know if this is a new thing being pushed right now, but I can tell you our district had adopted it only a few months before the shooting in May 24th.

That day was the very first time we were told to go into lockdown only by a silent alarm. Never, ever, has any drill been conducted without an audible warning.

Here are the issues:
1. I never got the alarm, I found it later in my spam folder.
2. I have a picture of the time the alarm was sent and several pictures of when it was received by staff. It took a full minute from the time the button was pushed to the time staff received it.
3. At least half the staff never saw it because we don’t walk around with our phones in front of our face. We don’t sit in class with the phone or computer in front of our face.
4. What happens to kids in the bathroom who get no warning? There were some btw…no warning because they don’t have phones and it isn’t sent to kids…only adults.

If your district has adopted a silent alarm system with no backup warnings (overhead announcement, flashing lights, something!) fight it! Yes, it all happened fast. Like faster than anyone can imagine, but I know the first teacher was shot 4 minutes after the alarm was sent, which was 3 minutes after the alarm was received. That system failed horribly!"

ETA: Here is a news article corroborating the teacher's account.

abcnews.go.com/US/security-app-sheds-light-emergency-response-uvalde-school/story?id=85171495

[lo]

Honestly I think many “precautions” that schools take are only to make people feel better about things and won’t actually save any lives. My district says we can’t have the magnetic strips because it’s a fire safety issue. Our admin has preferred in the past, that’s doors are kept unlocked. Some teachers don’t have working keys to their rooms, and if there is a substitute teacher they have no way to lock a door anyway.

[bernsteincat]

Jun 19, 2022 22:26:23 GMT -5 lo said:

Honestly I think many “precautions” that schools take are only to make people feel better about things and won’t actually save any lives. My district says we can’t have the magnetic strips because it’s a fire safety issue. Our admin has preferred in the past, that’s doors are kept unlocked. Some teachers don’t have working keys to their rooms, and if there is a substitute teacher they have no way to lock a door anyway.

I completely agree with this. It’s a lot of theater and words, and, as we saw in Uvalde, when push comes to shove, you might not be able to count on those people anyway.

[erbear]

Jun 19, 2022 22:26:23 GMT -5 lo said:

Honestly I think many “precautions” that schools take are only to make people feel better about things and won’t actually save any lives. My district says we can’t have the magnetic strips because it’s a fire safety issue. Our admin has preferred in the past, that’s doors are kept unlocked. Some teachers don’t have working keys to their rooms, and if there is a substitute teacher they have no way to lock a door anyway.

Unfortunately, I think this is true. Lockdowns do work — I think I once saw a statistic that no student was ever killed in a school shooting when the door was locked - I can’t remember where I read that though so apologies if it’s no longer true — but the warning systems aren’t great and there are barriers in the way (like doors that only lock from the outside). All of the other marketed “safety” stuff is just to make everyone feel better — I am not sure how practical it is in an actual active shooter situation (and I hope I never find out)

[suburbanzookeeper]

Today -- "Reporters were asked to leave Uvalde City Hall because people are intimidated by us. Texas legislators are meeting here with law enforcement behind closed doors. The fire marshal also told a local chaplain and father of a victim to exit from the building."

[NewOrleans]

Jun 20, 2022 19:28:37 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

Today -- "Reporters were asked to leave Uvalde City Hall because people are intimidated by us. Texas legislators are meeting here with law enforcement behind closed doors. The fire marshal also told a local chaplain and father of a victim to exit from the building."

This definitely sounds like an open meetings law violation.

Someone had a whole “panic attack.”  I wonder how many panic attacks the parents of the murdered children have had. GTFO with the panic attack. Jesus Christ I hate the people running this horror show.

I swear that the next lie that is going to be discovered is that the police themselves were firing into the room.  

[MixedBerryJam]

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

I'm wondering if it's just to keep kids from being able to lock the teacher out? I was also surprised to learn that and this is the first thing my mind thought of.  But I thought teachers have been locking doors during drills for ten years. 

[estrellita]

Jun 20, 2022 22:34:33 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Jun 18, 2022 21:38:17 GMT -5 estrellita said:

They didn't even try?! Just wow. Is there a purpose to having doors lock on the outside instead of the inside? That seems odd, but there's probably a reason I'm not thinking of?

I'm wondering if it's just to keep kids from being able to lock the teacher out? I was also surprised to learn that and this is the first thing my mind thought of.  But I thought teachers have been locking doors during drills for ten years. 

Ohh, maybe. That's a good thought. In that case, the teacher should carry a key if they leave the room.

[NewOrleans]

They had tactical gear and a device for forcing entry through doors. YET VIDEO REVEALS THEY STILL WOULD NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO OPEN THE DOORS. If cops won’t put themselves in front of that weapon, then no one should be behind it.

This is just a smattering of the utterly damning information footage has provided. No wonder the city is trying to toss out every FOIA for more.


a special agent at the Texas Department of Public Safety, had arrived around 20 minutes after the shooting started. He immediately asked: Are there still kids in the classrooms? “If there is, then they just need to go in,” the agent said.
Another officer answered, “It is unknown at this time.”
The agent shot back, “Y’all don’t know if there’s kids in there?” He added, “If there’s kids in there we need to go in there.”
“Whoever is in charge will determine that,” came the reply. [we know there were kids and a teacher still alive and making calls including to 911!!! Also, it was this special agent who decided to start evacuating other kids because the officers were so fucking useless and didn’t think of that)

Within the first minutes of the law enforcement response, an officer said the Halligan (a firefighting tool that is also sometimes spelled hooligan) was on site. It wasn’t brought into the school until an hour after the first officers entered the building. Authorities didn’t use it and instead waited for keys.

Officers had access to four ballistic shields inside the school during the standoff with the gunman, according to a law enforcement transcript. The first arrived 58 minutes before officers stormed the classrooms. The last arrived 30 minutes before.

www.kwtx.com/2022/06/21/if-theres-kids-there-we-need-go-officers-uvalde-were-ready-with-guns-shields-tools-not-clear-orders/?outputType=amp

[NewOrleans]

Arredondo said they tried to open a door and that it was locked and reinforced. The cameras show this ever happened. My God. I understand we can’t have vigilante Justice and the man deserves his day in court but my fear is he won’t even have to go to court to answer for all this.

[Bad Dingo]

Senate Special Committee Hearing on Uvalde Shooting happening now: www.c-span.org/video/?521225-1/texas-senate-special-committee-hearing-uvalde-shooting&live

[somersault72]

Re: drills

DS has had ALICE drills since he was in kindergarten. Last year when he was in 7th grade there was SOME sort of drill during 8th grade lunch. A few kids ended up getting hurt because there was a miscommunication or something and panic ensued. I can't imagine how scared these kids were and they were teenagers.

The takeaway from the dumbasses in our neighborhood group: well at least they didn't get shot! W T F

I am certain these are the same idiots who think the ONLY solution here is arming teachers (well and "surprise" drills). How many more wrong answers are these jackwagons going to offer up before we start ACTUALLY trying to do something. It makes me sick.

[NewOrleans]

A top Texas law enforcement official said that there were enough armed police officers wearing body armor to stop the late May shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas three minutes after it began.

That was according to Steve McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, who spoke to state officials during a Texas Senate committee hearing on Tuesday.

www.npr.org/2022/06/21/1106372103/uvalde-shooting-timeline-3-minutes-pete-arredondo

[suburbanzookeeper]

It doesn't get better.

"Officer husband of slain Uvalde teacher was detained, had gun taken away after trying to save wife
Texas DPS director said Eva Mireles told her husband she ‘had been shot and was dying’"

www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/06/21/officer-husband-of-slain-uvalde-teacher-was-detained-had-gun-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

Her husband was one of the officers who taught the active shooter trainings:
nypost.com/2022/05/25/texas-shooting-salvador-ramos-hs-held-active-shooter-drill-weeks-before-massacre/

[NewOrleans]

Jun 21, 2022 20:44:50 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

It doesn't get better.

"Officer husband of slain Uvalde teacher was detained, had gun taken away after trying to save wife
Texas DPS director said Eva Mireles told her husband she ‘had been shot and was dying’"

www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/06/21/officer-husband-of-slain-uvalde-teacher-was-detained-had-gun-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

I will process the second part later but omg. That might be one of the only decisions that makes any sort of sense. 😭 That poor man.

[formerlyak]

Yesterday I had to bring supplies to the high school for summer school since my org helps with the local summer school. My 8 year old was with me. We brought the supplies to the art room and while waiting for the teacher, we were talking with the summer school principal, who is a long time friend and has known me since before eight year old was born. Eight year old looks around and say, very matter of fact, “Where is the second exit for this classroom?” Principal and I knew why he asked. It’s something they are trained to know. It was just interesting that that’s what his little brain did as soon as he walked into a new classroom.

[erbear]

This talking point about the doors is making me so furious. Of course the doors should lock — an exterior door that only locks from the outside is dumb as fuck. Of course teachers should have keys to their classrooms, but I can see why one might not want a classroom door to be able to be locked only from the inside.

None of these things are what caused this massacre. It happened because a young man could legally access a gun that was designed to blow off heads quickly and the good guys with the guns were too fucking scared to stop him. That’s the reason. Putting one more second of blame on schools and teachers is unbelievable.

[AJL]

Jun 22, 2022 9:04:21 GMT -5 erbear said:

This talking point about the doors is making me so furious. Of course the doors should lock — an exterior door that only locks from the outside is dumb as fuck. Of course teachers should have keys to their classrooms, but I can see why one might not want a classroom door to be able to be locked only from the inside.

None of these things are what caused this massacre. It happened because a young man could legally access a gun that was designed to blow off heads quickly and the good guys with the guns were too fucking scared to stop him. That’s the reason. Putting one more second of blame on schools and teachers is unbelievable.

The exterior door locks from the outside because in the event of a fire you can always push it open from the inside. That isn’t stupid. That makes sense. It can only be unlocked to open from the outside but using a hex key in the interior push bar.

The locking issue brought up was with the doors to the classrooms. Those only lock from the outside. Again this is a fire safety feature. You have to be able to get out of the classroom without obstruction in the event of a fire. Protocol is for all doors to remain locked at all times. In Texas, TEA distributed magnet strips that are placed over the lock plates. The door closes but the latch won’t engage to lock the door. The idea is that in the event of an armed intruder, the teacher slips the magnet and closes the door. I watched some of the testimony that the lock plate for the classroom door was broken. Maybe that’s true.

The killer in Uvalde was in the classroom with the teachers and children. They couldn’t get out because the shooter obviously was the obstacle.

the issue has to be that the police say they couldn’t unlock the door to the classroom but again I don’t believe it. It is 100% bullshit that the police couldn’t unlock the doors. The custodians, principal, AP, and front office staff all have master keys that will unlock every door in a school. If someone tells you they don’t, they are lying.

The police are lying. The mayor is lying. The governor is lying, this is a HUGE failure of leadership and everyone is trying to cover their ass and pass the blame.

[erbear]

Jun 22, 2022 9:42:47 GMT -5 AJL said:

Jun 22, 2022 9:04:21 GMT -5 erbear said:

This talking point about the doors is making me so furious. Of course the doors should lock — an exterior door that only locks from the outside is dumb as fuck. Of course teachers should have keys to their classrooms, but I can see why one might not want a classroom door to be able to be locked only from the inside.

None of these things are what caused this massacre. It happened because a young man could legally access a gun that was designed to blow off heads quickly and the good guys with the guns were too fucking scared to stop him. That’s the reason. Putting one more second of blame on schools and teachers is unbelievable.

The exterior door locks from the outside because in the event of a fire you can always push it open from the inside. That isn’t stupid. That makes sense. It can only be unlocked to open from the outside but using a hex key in the interior push bar.

The locking issue brought up was with the doors to the classrooms. Those only lock from the outside. Again this is a fire safety feature. You have to be able to get out of the classroom without obstruction in the event of a fire. Protocol is for all doors to remain locked at all times. In Texas, TEA distributed magnet strips that are placed over the lock plates. The door closes but the latch won’t engage to lock the door. The idea is that in the event of an armed intruder, the teacher slips the magnet and closes the door. I watched some of the testimony that the lock plate for the classroom door was broken. Maybe that’s true.

The killer in Uvalde was in the classroom with the teachers and children. They couldn’t get out because the shooter obviously was the obstacle.

the issue has to be that the police say they couldn’t unlock the door to the classroom but again I don’t believe it. It is 100% bullshit that the police couldn’t unlock the doors. The custodians, principal, AP, and front office staff all have master keys that will unlock every door in a school. If someone tells you they don’t, they are lying.

The police are lying. The mayor is lying. The governor is lying, this is a HUGE failure of leadership and everyone is trying to cover their ass and pass the blame.

The exterior doors at my school can be pushed open all the time and in an emergency but not opened from the outside without a key. It sounds like, in this case, that door was unlocked completely from the outside — he walked right in. My classroom door locks both from the hallway (with a key) and from the inside (with a deadbolt). I used to have one of those magnets in my old school but it fell off all the time. If the testimony is to be believed (and I l believe it), the door was unlocked from the outside and despite one shooter, 19 armed cops should have walked in that door and took him down.

Your last line is spot on.

[breezy8407]

I know the door hardware isn't the real issue, but there are a variety of ways to lock doors and codes that dictate what a door can and can't do. I don't do schools, but there is a door function called a classroom lock. It is keyed in the handset on both sides, so you can lock it from either side, but the inside will always open with the lever. This is for fire reasons.

I've also run into fire officials who don't allow certain methods of locking doors again, due to fire risk.

[TamiTaylor]

Jun 22, 2022 9:42:47 GMT -5 AJL said:

Jun 22, 2022 9:04:21 GMT -5 erbear said:

This talking point about the doors is making me so furious. Of course the doors should lock — an exterior door that only locks from the outside is dumb as fuck. Of course teachers should have keys to their classrooms, but I can see why one might not want a classroom door to be able to be locked only from the inside.

None of these things are what caused this massacre. It happened because a young man could legally access a gun that was designed to blow off heads quickly and the good guys with the guns were too fucking scared to stop him. That’s the reason. Putting one more second of blame on schools and teachers is unbelievable.

The exterior door locks from the outside because in the event of a fire you can always push it open from the inside. That isn’t stupid. That makes sense. It can only be unlocked to open from the outside but using a hex key in the interior push bar.

The locking issue brought up was with the doors to the classrooms. Those only lock from the outside. Again this is a fire safety feature. You have to be able to get out of the classroom without obstruction in the event of a fire. Protocol is for all doors to remain locked at all times. In Texas, TEA distributed magnet strips that are placed over the lock plates. The door closes but the latch won’t engage to lock the door. The idea is that in the event of an armed intruder, the teacher slips the magnet and closes the door. I watched some of the testimony that the lock plate for the classroom door was broken. Maybe that’s true.

The killer in Uvalde was in the classroom with the teachers and children. They couldn’t get out because the shooter obviously was the obstacle.

the issue has to be that the police say they couldn’t unlock the door to the classroom but again I don’t believe it. It is 100% bullshit that the police couldn’t unlock the doors. The custodians, principal, AP, and front office staff all have master keys that will unlock every door in a school. If someone tells you they don’t, they are lying.

The police are lying. The mayor is lying. The governor is lying, this is a HUGE failure of leadership and everyone is trying to cover their ass and pass the blame.

A Texas teacher here. In all the schools and school districts I have taught in I have never received any magnet lock cover for the door.

[cherryvalance]

It's important to remember, and remind people, that schools are operating under various, usually conflicting, safety protocols. This came up with Covid, when people didn't understand why windows couldn't be open for ventilation (they only open a few inches to prevent on-site suicide or accident). It's similar with fire vs active shooter protocols.

In this case, and with the GOP in general, they're banking on people not being familiar with all the needs of a school and chalking it up to teacher/school incompetence.

[Poeticxpassion]

Uvalde shooting: Robb Elementary School to be demolished - mayor

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61890558

[Deleted]

Arredondo has been placed on administrative leave.

Also, he would like the transcripts of the things he’s said previously to refresh his memory compared to what he hears.

….But he and his lawyer told the Tribune he was open to cooperating with investigations as long as he can see his previous transcripts first.

"That's a fair thing to ask for before he has to then discuss it again because, as time goes by, all the information that he hears, it’s hard to keep straight," Hyde said.

Um your truth is your truth asshole. You shouldn’t need transcripts to remind you of the things you’ve said happened.

[dancelnow]

Jun 22, 2022 22:02:05 GMT -5 @rebeccawelton said:

Arredondo has been placed on administrative leave.

Um your truth is your truth asshole. You shouldn’t need transcripts to remind you of the things you’ve said happened.

While I’m sure he’s lying about a lot, there is science substantiating what you hear impacting your memory.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2022 3:11:37 GMT -5 dancelnow said:

Jun 22, 2022 22:02:05 GMT -5 @rebeccawelton said:

Arredondo has been placed on administrative leave.

Um your truth is your truth asshole. You shouldn’t need transcripts to remind you of the things you’ve said happened.

While I’m sure he’s lying about a lot, there is science substantiating what you hear impacting your memory.

Yeah I figured. But yeah - he's full of crap.