@ Roe is officially dead

[penguingrrl]

Jun 27, 2022 17:49:33 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jun 27, 2022 17:31:14 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

That depends. I think for most politicians I agree whole heartedly. If it’s MTG or Palin, women who purposefully built their careers on denying this right to others, then I’m okay with it leaking.

I think the problem with this is the shaming that comes with this sort of outing is exactly what we don’t want to see. For instance, the rumors about Lauren Boebert largely didn’t result in people calling out her hypocrisy, but rather in the sex work and abortions themselves. The messaging comes from people who claim to be pro choice (as the right wingers don’t believe it anyway.)

I have a really big problem with this. I loathe Lauren Boebert and want her to go down, but I don’t think anyone should be outed for their abortions or which adults they consensually sleep with.

Now, this sort of leaking of private information can be effective as we saw with Madison Cawthorn. Frankly, I’m glad he’s out, but I really hate the way it went down. There was a lot of anti-LGBTQI messaging wrapped up in that - even from people who claim to be allies - and it did not make me feel triumphant.

I’m on pain meds, so I may not be framing this in the best way. I want these fuckers to go down in flames, but not wrapped up in the wrong messaging.

That’s very fair. I want them called on their hypocrisy, but you’re right that the shaming of populations inherent in that is harmful as well. I’m delighted Madison Cawthorne is out, but sad that it took insinuating that he might be LGBTQ+ to unseat him when he was so awful a human.

[Deleted]

OMG, we don’t need to shame anyone for having had an abortion because it’s NOT SHAMEFUL. Yes, the hypocrisy sucks, but it’s not worth potentially shaming someone to point it out.

[sent]

Jun 26, 2022 17:59:42 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jun 24, 2022 22:44:54 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Missouri stopped its abortions immediately upon the news today, per the AG. Now, we only had one PP left that performed them and I guess a million hoops to jump through, so odds are no one had a procedure scheduled for today, but can you imagine if you did? How devastating.

I did hear on NPR how this could effect college enrollments and company locations. I hope it does. I hope our economies tank and the blue states thrive.

Fuck the GOP.

Funny you should mention that. 

Since Texas stopped most abortions about 10 months ago, we are now seeing some of the impacts of people not have access to the care they want. This teenager found out she was pregnant 2 days before the ban went into effect, at which point all appointments were taken and her only other option was a 13 hour drive, so now she has twins and they all live off her boyfriend's $9.75/hour salary. 

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/20/texas-abortion-law-teen-mom/

I am still reading the comments on this article (I know, I know). There is a Gofundme for this teen and her twins and it’s reached $55k as of this morning. I haven’t clicked on it yet but apparently the readers who are proud and relieved that this teen had the babies are donating. That's when it dawned on me. This is how all the red-state, tax-hating, “less government,” white-savior people are going to get around helping the poor women forced to have a baby they can’t afford. Tax payer services like food stamps and Medicaid have to help all babies so politicians are already busy gutting those. But a Gofundme can help just the white babies that they feel like helping.

I felt depressed all day after realizing that.

[sonrisa]

Jun 27, 2022 17:31:14 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Jun 27, 2022 17:21:55 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Fair point, but I also feel that this isn’t information that should be shared.

That depends. I think for most politicians I agree whole heartedly. If it’s MTG or Palin, women who purposefully built their careers on denying this right to others, then I’m okay with it leaking.

Think about what you are proposing: You don't like them, so you want to be able to dig through all of their medical history just in case there is something private in there that you can then expose publicly so they lose supporters.

No.

No.

No. 

[wanderingback]

Jun 27, 2022 18:11:51 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Jun 27, 2022 17:49:33 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I think the problem with this is the shaming that comes with this sort of outing is exactly what we don’t want to see. For instance, the rumors about Lauren Boebert largely didn’t result in people calling out her hypocrisy, but rather in the sex work and abortions themselves. The messaging comes from people who claim to be pro choice (as the right wingers don’t believe it anyway.)

I have a really big problem with this. I loathe Lauren Boebert and want her to go down, but I don’t think anyone should be outed for their abortions or which adults they consensually sleep with.

Now, this sort of leaking of private information can be effective as we saw with Madison Cawthorn. Frankly, I’m glad he’s out, but I really hate the way it went down. There was a lot of anti-LGBTQI messaging wrapped up in that - even from people who claim to be allies - and it did not make me feel triumphant.

I’m on pain meds, so I may not be framing this in the best way. I want these fuckers to go down in flames, but not wrapped up in the wrong messaging.

That’s very fair. I want them called on their hypocrisy, but you’re right that the shaming of populations inherent in that is harmful as well. I’m delighted Madison Cawthorne is out, but sad that it took insinuating that he might be LGBTQ+ to unseat him when he was so awful a human.

Nope, not a good look.
A lot of "pro-life" people have abortions. Literally protest outside one day and are in a clinic having an abortion the next. Shaming them for their hypocrisy doesn’t do any good except continue abortion stigma.

[TR]

Jun 27, 2022 19:12:12 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jun 27, 2022 17:31:14 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

That depends. I think for most politicians I agree whole heartedly. If it’s MTG or Palin, women who purposefully built their careers on denying this right to others, then I’m okay with it leaking.

Thank about what you are proposing: You don't like them, so you want to be able to dig through all of their medical history just in case there is something private in there that you can then expose publicly so they lose supporters.

No.

No.

No. 

And they won’t lose supporters. Because these people don’t actually care.

[TamiTaylor]

Jun 27, 2022 16:42:31 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Jun 27, 2022 16:09:10 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

So is HIPPA no longer after this? If so can we FOIA request the medical records of politicians?

HIPAA never protected medical records against a court order.

Well that’s bullshit.

[TamiTaylor]

Jun 27, 2022 18:47:40 GMT -5 @villainv said:

OMG, we don’t need to shame anyone for having had an abortion because it’s NOT SHAMEFUL. Yes, the hypocrisy sucks, but it’s not worth potentially shaming someone to point it out.

FTR I was not referring to aboetions in med records but I would like to know if Mitch McConnell is the spawn of satan.

[penguingrrl]

Jun 27, 2022 19:43:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 27, 2022 18:11:51 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

That’s very fair. I want them called on their hypocrisy, but you’re right that the shaming of populations inherent in that is harmful as well. I’m delighted Madison Cawthorne is out, but sad that it took insinuating that he might be LGBTQ+ to unseat him when he was so awful a human.

Nope, not a good look.
A lot of "pro-life" people have abortions. Literally protest outside one day and are in a clinic having an abortion the next. Shaming them for their hypocrisy doesn’t do any good except continue abortion stigma.

You’re right and I apologize. It was the hypocrisy I wanted to highlight but continuing to stigmatize medical care isn’t the answer.

[satsuma]

Jun 27, 2022 19:43:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 27, 2022 18:11:51 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

That’s very fair. I want them called on their hypocrisy, but you’re right that the shaming of populations inherent in that is harmful as well. I’m delighted Madison Cawthorne is out, but sad that it took insinuating that he might be LGBTQ+ to unseat him when he was so awful a human.

Nope, not a good look.
A lot of "pro-life" people have abortions. Literally protest outside one day and are in a clinic having an abortion the next. Shaming them for their hypocrisy doesn’t do any good except continue abortion stigma.

I have a friend who enrolls patients in clinical studies through PP and has told me that this happens more frequently than one would expect. Protest, abortion, protest. It’s like Crag T Nelson saying he’s been on food stamps and welfare and then claiming no one ever helped him out.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jun 27, 2022 20:42:14 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jun 27, 2022 16:42:31 GMT -5 carmenere said:

HIPAA never protected medical records against a court order.

Well that’s bullshit.

Why? Your medical records can be directly relevant to certain legal claims.

[TamiTaylor]

Jun 27, 2022 21:38:21 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Jun 27, 2022 20:42:14 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Well that’s bullshit.

Why? Your medical records can be directly relevant to certain legal claims.

If I release them on behalf of my claim is one thing. For my records to be subject to a court order at the bequest of someone else is another.

[Vespasia]

A little while ago, I read a book about feminist time travelers in 2022 trying to alter the past to protect abortion rights (among other things). It was one of my favorites books that year.

The author posted a piece in Slate yesterday.
slate.com/technology/2022/06/science-fiction-abortion-future-of-another-timeline.html

[msmerymac]

Jun 27, 2022 18:59:14 GMT -5 sent said:

Jun 26, 2022 17:59:42 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Funny you should mention that. 

Since Texas stopped most abortions about 10 months ago, we are now seeing some of the impacts of people not have access to the care they want. This teenager found out she was pregnant 2 days before the ban went into effect, at which point all appointments were taken and her only other option was a 13 hour drive, so now she has twins and they all live off her boyfriend's $9.75/hour salary. 

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/20/texas-abortion-law-teen-mom/

I am still reading the comments on this article (I know, I know). There is a Gofundme for this teen and her twins and it’s reached $55k as of this morning. I haven’t clicked on it yet but apparently the readers who are proud and relieved that this teen had the babies are donating. That's when it dawned on me. This is how all the red-state, tax-hating, “less government,” white-savior people are going to get around helping the poor women forced to have a baby they can’t afford. Tax payer services like food stamps and Medicaid have to help all babies so politicians are already busy gutting those. But a Gofundme can help just the white babies that they feel like helping.

I felt depressed all day after realizing that.

Kristi Noem was on George Stephanopoulos this week and when asked about South Dakota having a poor social safety net she said they have a lot of churches. :S

[chickadee77]

Honest question: I know D&Cs and D&Es are medical abortions. Are these now illegal in these trigger law states also? Or have exceptions been written in in most states? I would Google search but am not even sure how to search for that.

[macmars45]

Jun 30, 2022 9:54:54 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

Honest question: I know D&Cs and D&Es are medical abortions. Are these now illegal in these trigger law states also? Or have exceptions been written in in most states? I would Google search but am not even sure how to search for that.

Some trigger laws made them illegal but it varies state to state. There are some states that are trying to get protections in place for those, yes.

This article might be helpful

www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/jun/28/tracking-where-abortion-laws-stand-in-every-state

[litskispeciality]

Jun 30, 2022 11:24:07 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

Jun 30, 2022 9:54:54 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

Honest question: I know D&Cs and D&Es are medical abortions. Are these now illegal in these trigger law states also? Or have exceptions been written in in most states? I would Google search but am not even sure how to search for that.

Some trigger laws made them illegal but it varies state to state. There are some states that are trying to get protections in place for those, yes.

This article might be helpful

www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/jun/28/tracking-where-abortion-laws-stand-in-every-state

Additional @@@@ TW

For now, can you still have those procedures if you're not pregnant, or if you miscarry or need one after pregnancy? I learned I had a D&C to remove a fibroid. I have a girlfriend who has to go through a D&C after birth because she's had a horrible OBGYN team and an awful post-partum experience. I know they'll go after this stuff next, just wondering how long you can do it now if it doesn't currently lead to termination of a pregnancy?

[pooh8402]

Jun 30, 2022 11:33:28 GMT -5 litskispeciality said:

Jun 30, 2022 11:24:07 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

Some trigger laws made them illegal but it varies state to state. There are some states that are trying to get protections in place for those, yes.

This article might be helpful

www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/jun/28/tracking-where-abortion-laws-stand-in-every-state

Additional @@@@ TW

For now, can you still have those procedures if you're not pregnant, or if you miscarry or need one after pregnancy? I learned I had a D&C to remove a fibroid. I have a girlfriend who has to go through a D&C after birth because she's had a horrible OBGYN team and an awful post-partum experience. I know they'll go after this stuff next, just wondering how long you can do it now if it doesn't currently lead to termination of a pregnancy?

You can still do them.

[pooh8402]

Jun 30, 2022 9:54:54 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

Honest question: I know D&Cs and D&Es are medical abortions. Are these now illegal in these trigger law states also? Or have exceptions been written in in most states? I would Google search but am not even sure how to search for that.

@@@@

Exceptions have been written in the Texas one for spontaneous/missed/incomplete miscarriages, and for ectopics, and if the mother's life is in danger.

[NewOrleans]

Jun 30, 2022 18:05:49 GMT -5 pooh8402 said:

Jun 30, 2022 9:54:54 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

Honest question: I know D&Cs and D&Es are medical abortions. Are these now illegal in these trigger law states also? Or have exceptions been written in in most states? I would Google search but am not even sure how to search for that.

@@@@

Exceptions have been written in the Texas one for spontaneous/missed/incomplete miscarriages, and for ectopics, and if the mother's life is in danger.

How generous!

Note that “life” is drastically different from “health,” and guess who will get to decide how sick you have to be to have your life in danger. Hospital attorneys! 🙃 It also specifically only designated physical conditions as life threatening. So all those fuckfaces screeching about “mental health” instead of gun sense following Uvalde are celebrating that mental health conditions are excluded as a threat to a woman’s life.

[jeaniebueller]

Jun 30, 2022 20:00:15 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Jun 30, 2022 18:05:49 GMT -5 pooh8402 said:

@@@@

Exceptions have been written in the Texas one for spontaneous/missed/incomplete miscarriages, and for ectopics, and if the mother's life is in danger.

How generous!

Note that “life” is drastically different from “health,” and guess who will get to decide how sick you have to be to have your life in danger. Hospital attorneys! 🙃 It also specifically only designated physical conditions as life threatening. So all those fuckfaces screeching about “mental health” instead of gun sense following Uvalde are celebrating that mental health conditions are excluded as a threat to a woman’s life.

💯💯💯💯

My first concern was ‘who’ decides if or when the mothers life was in danger. The doctor? The hospital? The hospitals lawyer? The doctors lawyer? The medical system CEO? A judge? The insurance company? The pope? How many doctors will hesitate because they fear being charged with a felony?

The ‘mothers life’ exception as opposed to health and life is terrifying. Pregnancy alone can be life threatening.

[pooh8402]

That's exactly why it sucks, as written.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 30, 2022 20:09:57 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jun 30, 2022 20:00:15 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

How generous!

Note that “life” is drastically different from “health,” and guess who will get to decide how sick you have to be to have your life in danger. Hospital attorneys! 🙃 It also specifically only designated physical conditions as life threatening. So all those fuckfaces screeching about “mental health” instead of gun sense following Uvalde are celebrating that mental health conditions are excluded as a threat to a woman’s life.

💯💯💯💯

My first concern was ‘who’ decides if or when the mothers life was in danger. The doctor? The hospital? The hospitals lawyer? The doctors lawyer? The medical system CEO? A judge? The insurance company? The pope? How many doctors will hesitate because they fear being charged with a felony?

The ‘mothers life’ exception as opposed to health and life is terrifying. Pregnancy alone can be life threatening.

And by the time that’s decided, it could be too late.

[Bad Dingo]

www.axios.com/2022/06/30/biden-senate-filibuster-abortion-roe?stream=top&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_all


Biden backs filibuster changes to codify Roe v. Wade

[AAM2012]

Jun 27, 2022 22:00:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Jun 27, 2022 21:38:21 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Why? Your medical records can be directly relevant to certain legal claims.

If I release them on behalf of my claim is one thing. For my records to be subject to a court order at the bequest of someone else is another.

Subpoena requests go through the courts for approval and they have to be relevant to a criminal/civil case.

Your neighbor isn’t just going to put in a random request for your medical records…

[gretchenindisguise]

Jul 1, 2022 9:21:17 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Jun 27, 2022 22:00:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

If I release them on behalf of my claim is one thing. For my records to be subject to a court order at the bequest of someone else is another.

Subpoena requests go through the courts for approval and they have to be relevant to a criminal/civil case.

Your neighbor isn’t just going to put in a random request for your medical records…

But an abusive partner who believes a natural miscarriage was actually an intentional abortion, may be able to compel the court.

[sillygoosegirl]

Jun 30, 2022 20:09:57 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jun 30, 2022 20:00:15 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

How generous!

Note that “life” is drastically different from “health,” and guess who will get to decide how sick you have to be to have your life in danger. Hospital attorneys! 🙃 It also specifically only designated physical conditions as life threatening. So all those fuckfaces screeching about “mental health” instead of gun sense following Uvalde are celebrating that mental health conditions are excluded as a threat to a woman’s life.

💯💯💯💯

My first concern was ‘who’ decides if or when the mothers life was in danger. The doctor? The hospital? The hospitals lawyer? The doctors lawyer? The medical system CEO? A judge? The insurance company? The pope? How many doctors will hesitate because they fear being charged with a felony?

The ‘mothers life’ exception as opposed to health and life is terrifying. Pregnancy alone can be life threatening.

Exactly. Every pregnant person's life is in danger from every pregnancy. Not an particularly extreme danger if it's a healthy pregnancy, but in most cases even when the risk gets high, it's still not like 100% that she's gonna die. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be anyone else's choice! If you don't want to take even a small risk, you should have that option. If you do want to take even a large risk, you should also have that option. Otherwise where do we draw the line? At a 10% chance of death? At a 0.1% chance of death? At a 75% chance of death? How can anyone think they possibly have the right to make this decision for another person?

[TamiTaylor]

Jul 1, 2022 9:21:17 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Jun 27, 2022 22:00:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

If I release them on behalf of my claim is one thing. For my records to be subject to a court order at the bequest of someone else is another.

Subpoena requests go through the courts for approval and they have to be relevant to a criminal/civil case.

Your neighbor isn’t just going to put in a random request for your medical records…

Not any better. The courts have proven they are not on our side.

[karinothing]

Jun 30, 2022 20:09:57 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jun 30, 2022 20:00:15 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

How generous!

Note that “life” is drastically different from “health,” and guess who will get to decide how sick you have to be to have your life in danger. Hospital attorneys! 🙃 It also specifically only designated physical conditions as life threatening. So all those fuckfaces screeching about “mental health” instead of gun sense following Uvalde are celebrating that mental health conditions are excluded as a threat to a woman’s life.

💯💯💯💯

My first concern was ‘who’ decides if or when the mothers life was in danger. The doctor? The hospital? The hospitals lawyer? The doctors lawyer? The medical system CEO? A judge? The insurance company? The pope? How many doctors will hesitate because they fear being charged with a felony?

The ‘mothers life’ exception as opposed to health and life is terrifying. Pregnancy alone can be life threatening.

I thought this too re exceptions for rape or incest. How do prove rape when the vast majority if rapes are unreported? Society doesn't exactly believe women. Do you have to agree to prosecute? Seek immediate attention? What if it's spousal rape and the spouse denies it's rape.

How about incest?

What if the life of the woman is at risk because of domestic violence does that count?

[wanderingback]

Jul 2, 2022 7:48:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jun 30, 2022 20:09:57 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

💯💯💯💯

My first concern was ‘who’ decides if or when the mothers life was in danger. The doctor? The hospital? The hospitals lawyer? The doctors lawyer? The medical system CEO? A judge? The insurance company? The pope? How many doctors will hesitate because they fear being charged with a felony?

The ‘mothers life’ exception as opposed to health and life is terrifying. Pregnancy alone can be life threatening.

I thought this too re exceptions for rape or incest. How do prove rape when the vast majority if rapes are unreported? Society doesn't exactly believe women. Do you have to agree to prosecute? Seek immediate attention? What if it's spousal rape and the spouse denies it's rape.

How about incest?

What if the life of the woman is at risk because of domestic violence does that count?

Unfortunately the laws with exceptions have made it clear that you do have to provide a police report for rape and incest

In my state abortion for any reason can occur up to 28 weeks since last menstrual period. After that it can be for fetal anomalies or the life and well being of the pregnant person. Our department of health just clarified that life and well being can take in to account physical, mental, socioeconomic, psychological factors. It really sucks to have to prove a reason but at least in this "liberal" state things like domestic violence or mental illness would be considered a "good enough" reason to have an abortion after 28 weeks. I know not other places have those type of carve outs specified. So shitty to not be able to make your own decisions.