@ Roe is officially dead

[TamiTaylor]

Jun 24, 2022 10:18:38 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:12:58 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Uhhhh since when do *at the very least* Lawrence and Obergefell NOT relate to what some people consider to be “critical moral questions?” It’s like he’s spent the past 2 decades in a totally different universe than the rest of us if he even remotely believes his own claims.

You're right, of course.

But Alito really tries to pat us all on the head and tell us that OF COURSE all of the OTHER decisions are not impacted here because they don't involve the "destruction of potential life," so it's totes different.  

As a lawyer, I find his reasoning so bad as to be offensive.  And the minority calls them out on it, in part in how heavily it weighs on the idea that abortion was not "deeply rooted" at the time of the nation's founding.  They're like, "Either you don't believe your own reasoning (and you are big fat liars and disingenous people who are just making up any justification you can find for your preferred policy outcome) OR any right not explicitly declared and/or strongly in existence at 1789 is at risk."  I actually think that these are not mutually exclusive.

I feel like there’s an invisible “YET” in there. None of those are on the table….yet.

[cattledogkisses]

While I’m doling out fuck yous, fuck you Susan Collins for pretending like Kavanuagh would be pro-choice when you voted to confirm that sexual assaulter.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:07 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:16:28 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

And just wait until the extremists retake federal power. I don't care that New York is a safe haven for abortion now. It won't be when they ram a national ban through.

This ruling and all the other rulings in danger like Obergefell and Griswold and Lawrence, plus guns, are why I see no hope for this country to remain intact as it stands after 2024. That's not what I want but I see it as inevitable. Thanks, SCOTUS!

Yup.  I'm in DC, which is a Democratic controlled city.  But we're not a state, and Congress can control what we do.  I fully anticipate that in 2024 they will start by banning abortion here since it's the lowest hanging fruit.

I honestly feel like the only two options are we devolve into the Christo-facist minority run theocracy that seems so obvious or there will be some sort of massive conflict.  But at the same time, the ones who have the motive to try to do something here aren't the ones stockpiling weapons and attacking the Capitol, and for the same reasons I don't see the conflict part coming into play.  I expect lots of protests and stuff, and the extremist GOP in charge will just laugh and keep going because they know there's nothing we can do.

My husband's great-grandfather was Italian and immigrated and had his grandfather before he naturalized.  This seems to mean my husband (and by extension my kids?) can qualify for Italian citizenship.  I have always meant to do it but it is a LOT of paperwork and bureaucracy so never got around to it.  Now, I think it's my project.  I am not sure how to start collecting birth and marriage certificates in Italy, let alone getting them "certified and apostilled," but I want my kids to be able to GTFO.  

Oh but there is something. If the hellscape I'm envisioning in or around 2024 truly happens, a blue state can simply peace out because why send federal taxes to a theocratic government? And who cares if SCOTUS said secession is illegal back in the 1800s? Look what SCOTUS just did right now. 

Not advocating or wishing for any of the above because holy hell it would be complicated and awful for millions of people, but I also don't see kumbayah happening whether Biden gets re-elected or Trump wins either. The post-election period is going to be complicated and awful too. Nothing good can come out of the next POTUS election no matter who wins. Like, I would seriously love for someone to come in here and tell me why a serious fracture beyond what we have now wouldn't occur, but I can't think of anything myself.

In many ways, this is so unfathomable to me and yet it also strikes me as an inevitability. It's a strange feeling.

[bears]

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:25 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I have no desire to relitigate 2016 but recall SO many assholes who refused to vote for hillary telling me that roe would never be reversed and that trump was pro choice.

I ended up a close friendship with a man in 2006 because he was a Ron Paul supporter and thought I was hysterical for pointing out the hypocricy of a libertarian who was opposed to abortion. He told me that abortion was irrelevant as a political issue, since it would never be overturned. I want to go back in time and yell at that asshole even more.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 24, 2022 10:42:34 GMT -5 bears said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:25 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I have no desire to relitigate 2016 but recall SO many assholes who refused to vote for hillary telling me that roe would never be reversed and that trump was pro choice.

I ended up a close friendship with a man in 2006 because he was a Ron Paul supporter and thought I was hysterical for pointing out the hypocricy of a libertarian who was opposed to abortion. He told me that abortion was irrelevant as a political issue, since it would never be overturned. I want to go back in time and yell at that asshole even more.

I do wonder how many of these types of smug assholes are reeling today. I know someone will probably argue with me about this, but I do think there's a subset of "conservatives" that never thought this would happen. There has to be, because in almost all of the polls 85% of Americans think abortion should be legal in most circumstances. (Source: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23167397/abortion-public-opinion-polls-americans)

[imimahoney]

So how do we get this right back? Assuming Congress shifts greatly and abortion access is legislated, how would it not be overturned again?

I'm just sick over this.

[followyourarrow]

Just Fuck. I don't even know where to go from here. I can say my desire to date and ever have sex again just evaporated, it seems way too risky.

[redheadbaker]

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:03 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

I knew this would come from when they made abortion legal to birth. Whenever the door swings so far one way it goes back to the starting point. This always happens in our 2 parties you push an issue then you push it too far and the other side runs all the way back to the starting point. Years of progress pissed away. As someone who benefitted from roe when I was the tender age of 21 I am sickened and glad I am raising my daughter in Canada for now.

They've been trying since LONG before that. 

[seeyalater52]

Jun 24, 2022 10:57:21 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

So how do we get this right back? Assuming Congress shifts greatly and abortion access is legislated, how would it not be overturned again?

I'm just sick over this.

I think we are unlikely to see enough Dem majority shift to do this unless the filibuster is eliminated. But if the filibuster is eliminated we can expect that any Republican majority will swing back to ban it as soon as they reclaim a majority and so on forever. It’s possible even with no end to the filibuster that Rs may have enough majority to do this after mid-terms but they’d still need to get the WH (and maintain that Congressional majority) to enact it.

The only other way is really to stack the court or to play a very long game of re-claiming the Court, but that hasn’t really worked out for us thus far.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 24, 2022 11:03:51 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:03 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

I knew this would come from when they made abortion legal to birth. Whenever the door swings so far one way it goes back to the starting point. This always happens in our 2 parties you push an issue then you push it too far and the other side runs all the way back to the starting point. Years of progress pissed away. As someone who benefitted from roe when I was the tender age of 21 I am sickened and glad I am raising my daughter in Canada for now.

They've been trying since LONG before that. 

There are also only a VERY small number of places where abortion is legal to birth in the US, and that option is nearly universally exercised in completely gutwrenching extreme circumstances. But who cares about reality when you can blame “both sides”?

On that note, I’m not playing this victim blaming game today so that’s all I’m gonna say.

[was5]

I keep thinking to my younger self 30 years ago who thought there was no way Roe would ever be overturned. Now I'm not even surprised this happened.

[imimahoney]

Jun 24, 2022 11:04:21 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:57:21 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

So how do we get this right back? Assuming Congress shifts greatly and abortion access is legislated, how would it not be overturned again?

I'm just sick over this.

I think we are unlikely to see enough Dem majority shift to do this unless the filibuster is eliminated. But if the filibuster is eliminated we can expect that any Republican majority will swing back to ban it as soon as they reclaim a majority and so on forever. It’s possible even with no end to the filibuster that Rs may have enough majority to do this after mid-terms but they’d still need to get the WH (and maintain that Congressional majority) to enact it.

The only other way is really to stack the court or to play a very long game of re-claiming the Court, but that hasn’t really worked out for us thus far.

It's just unbelievable to think that this freedom is just gone. I have no words.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 24, 2022 11:04:21 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:57:21 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

So how do we get this right back? Assuming Congress shifts greatly and abortion access is legislated, how would it not be overturned again?

I'm just sick over this.

I think we are unlikely to see enough Dem majority shift to do this unless the filibuster is eliminated. But if the filibuster is eliminated we can expect that any Republican majority will swing back to ban it as soon as they reclaim a majority and so on forever. It’s possible even with no end to the filibuster that Rs may have enough majority to do this after mid-terms but they’d still need to get the WH (and maintain that Congressional majority) to enact it.

The only other way is really to stack the court or to play a very long game of re-claiming the Court, but that hasn’t really worked out for us thus far.

I was just texting my friend about how Republicans played the long game patiently for 40+ years (not 50 because we know those assholes weren't mad right after Roe was decided!!!), but we are now living in a society where the long game seems unfathomable to so many people. And in a society where people need relief RIGHT NOW and they'll vote for wannabe authoritarians if they promise to reduce gas and food prices. 

[tacokick]

So this leaves Minnesota to provide abortions to a massive chunk of the US? Are there places we can help there?

I know the Baltimore Abortion Fund helps provide transport and other financial aid here, what’s the equivalent in the uppermidwest/other areas in need? If there is one.

[DesertMoon]

Jun 24, 2022 11:03:51 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:26:03 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

I knew this would come from when they made abortion legal to birth. Whenever the door swings so far one way it goes back to the starting point. This always happens in our 2 parties you push an issue then you push it too far and the other side runs all the way back to the starting point. Years of progress pissed away. As someone who benefitted from roe when I was the tender age of 21 I am sickened and glad I am raising my daughter in Canada for now.

They've been trying since LONG before that. 

I know they’ve been trying forever but from what I saw they seemed to get even more rabid and consumed about it, it helped their argument with people who weren’t very educated about it. I’m not assigning blame to anyone, all I am saying is I remember thinking they would attempt something like this is retaliation. Idk what happens next, the whole landscape of the country is changing again.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 24, 2022 11:16:57 GMT -5 tacokick said:

So this leaves Minnesota to provide abortions to a massive chunk of the US? Are there places we can help there?

I know the Baltimore Abortion Fund helps provide transport and other financial aid here, what’s the equivalent in the uppermidwest/other areas in need? If there is one.

Per the new maps, MN and IL are going to be slammed.

[wildrice]

Jun 24, 2022 11:16:57 GMT -5 tacokick said:

So this leaves Minnesota to provide abortions to a massive chunk of the US? Are there places we can help there?

I know the Baltimore Abortion Fund helps provide transport and other financial aid here, what’s the equivalent in the uppermidwest/other areas in need? If there is one.

I am pretty sure IL is not planning to ban abortion - they were pretty outspoken about it when this news first came out last month. Thankfully IL is pretty close to many of the midwestern states that will be banning, but of course they are going to have a hard time supporting EVERYONE.

There is probably a Chicago fund, and the Quad Cities might be another to look into. I just set up a recurring donation with the Baltimore fund, but you bring up a good point that I should also look into the midwest (my homeland!). 

[seeyalater52]

Jun 24, 2022 11:17:35 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

Jun 24, 2022 11:03:51 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

They've been trying since LONG before that. 

I know they’ve been trying forever but from what I saw they seemed to get even more rabid and consumed about it, it helped their argument with people who weren’t very educated about it. I’m not assigning blame to anyone, all I am saying is I remember thinking they would attempt something like this is retaliation. Idk what happens next, the whole landscape of the country is changing again.

What is the “it” you are referring to? There was no proactive policy change to allow abortion “until birth” in any state I’m aware of. The states that don’t have explicit gestational limits are primarily those without proactive, specific legislation on the topic, which in a lot of cases predate Roe completely. You’re speaking as if there was some turning point that caused retaliation but that doesn’t match up to any policy timeline I’m aware of.

[tacokick]

Can I add that I am tired of the press giving so much attention to fringe opinions and profiling these leaders/members of racist, sexist right wing groups in the interest of “fairness” or being “impartial”. Stop legitimizing them and making their opinions seem popular and reasonable.

People should not be surprised to learn that most Americans actually are pro choice! But I see that surprise so often even in pro choice circles.

[basilosaurus]

In all my years of traveling, I've kept in my back pocket I could at least go back to USA for an abortion. No longer.

In 2006 I remember arguing with my "mom" that W would do away with not just abortion but also birth control. I like to be right. This is not one of those times. It reminds me of when I argued I was not vaccinated against chickenpox (age 15), huge fight, 2 weeks later I had a really nasty case. Being right isn't always fun.

I'll plug again women on web. I'm sure others will pop up to fill the actual healthcare void. I live in a theocracy and now have more options than SCOTUS has allowed.

[ECB]

Jun 24, 2022 10:57:09 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:42:34 GMT -5 bears said:

I ended up a close friendship with a man in 2006 because he was a Ron Paul supporter and thought I was hysterical for pointing out the hypocricy of a libertarian who was opposed to abortion. He told me that abortion was irrelevant as a political issue, since it would never be overturned. I want to go back in time and yell at that asshole even more.

I do wonder how many of these types of smug assholes are reeling today. I know someone will probably argue with me about this, but I do think there's a subset of "conservatives" that never thought this would happen. There has to be, because in almost all of the polls 85% of Americans think abortion should be legal in most circumstances. (Source: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23167397/abortion-public-opinion-polls-americans)

to the degree it can change anything, IDK. but yes, there are republicans out there who are shocked. Who never thought this would happen. I’d LIKE to believe that this will light a fire under their asses to finally realize that their party actually doesn’t represent them anymore. But …. That’s wishful thinking.

[konapoppy]

Honestly, the longer I live, the more I think we should abolish men.

[savan]

The first thing I told DH this morning is that we are never leaving California. But the reality is that when the republicans regain control, and they will soon, there will be a national ban. Those of us in blue states will not be protected for long.

[suburbanzookeeper]

I slept like absolute shit last night and rolled over, grabbed my phone, and saw this. DH said we can't leave California, it'll give our kids a place to land at least for reproductive rights... but the rest of it?

They said that states can't set gun laws but they can set abortion laws? Fuck off. Fuck all of it. Burn it.

A fond fuck you to everyone who told me 2016 wasn't a big deal, when pushing through a bunch of lying twat waffles to the Supreme Court wasn't a big deal, who told me that RBG dying wouldn't impact RvW, and those who are celebrating now about the "sanctity of life" and aren't realizing the rest of the decisions that are down that slope that are also going to go. Fuck right off.

[abs]

Jun 24, 2022 11:34:34 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jun 24, 2022 10:57:09 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I do wonder how many of these types of smug assholes are reeling today. I know someone will probably argue with me about this, but I do think there's a subset of "conservatives" that never thought this would happen. There has to be, because in almost all of the polls 85% of Americans think abortion should be legal in most circumstances. (Source: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23167397/abortion-public-opinion-polls-americans)

to the degree it can change anything, IDK. but yes, there are republicans out there who are shocked. Who never thought this would happen. I’d LIKE to believe that this will light a fire under their asses to finally realize that their party actually doesn’t represent them anymore. But …. That’s wishful thinking.

It won't.  They will be shocked, horrified, and then bend themselves into pretzels to justify voting Republican again.

[DesertMoon]

Jun 24, 2022 11:26:11 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 24, 2022 11:17:35 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

I know they’ve been trying forever but from what I saw they seemed to get even more rabid and consumed about it, it helped their argument with people who weren’t very educated about it. I’m not assigning blame to anyone, all I am saying is I remember thinking they would attempt something like this is retaliation. Idk what happens next, the whole landscape of the country is changing again.

What is the “it” you are referring to? There was no proactive policy change to allow abortion “until birth” in any state I’m aware of. The states that don’t have explicit gestational limits are primarily those without proactive, specific legislation on the topic, which in a lot of cases predate Roe completely. You’re speaking as if there was some turning point that caused retaliation but that doesn’t match up to any policy timeline I’m aware of.

New York 2019 late term abortion. There was a clear turning point anti choice people clearly lost their minds when all that was going on.

[agnes]

Wasn't there a thread recently on where to donate or how to help? I can't seem to find it. Maybe we can start a new one and sticky it?

[seeyalater52]

Jun 24, 2022 11:48:09 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

Jun 24, 2022 11:26:11 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

What is the “it” you are referring to? There was no proactive policy change to allow abortion “until birth” in any state I’m aware of. The states that don’t have explicit gestational limits are primarily those without proactive, specific legislation on the topic, which in a lot of cases predate Roe completely. You’re speaking as if there was some turning point that caused retaliation but that doesn’t match up to any policy timeline I’m aware of.

New York 2019 late term abortion.

Huh? Viability is not the same thing as “until birth.” That is literally a far right talking point you’re regurgitating. A decent number of states have laws permitting abortions up until viability and they’ve been around since the dawn of time (quite literally it is biblical.) Please educate yourself before making inaccurate statements about such an important issue, especially today of all days.

[DesertMoon]

Jun 24, 2022 11:53:19 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 24, 2022 11:48:09 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

New York 2019 late term abortion.

Huh? Viability is not the same thing as “until birth.” That is literally a far right talking point you’re regurgitating. A decent number of states have laws permitting abortions up until viability and they’ve been around since the dawn of time (quite literally it is biblical.) Please educate yourself before making inaccurate statements about such an important issue, especially today of all days.

Hun I’m saying this is what conservatives believe, ofcourse it’s a conservative taking point because it’s why the party moved hard so hard the last couple years on doing this. this is why they went wild and doubled down to overturn roe. Don’t tell me to educate myself when you aren’t even following the conversation..

[Velar Fricative]

Here is a map and a bunch of informative tables showing what happens now:

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html

(it's a gifted link so you should all have access.)

MN and IL are the only states in that Upper Midwest area with protected access, but there are a dozen states with "uncertain" consequences like MI and WI that aren't enforcing bans at this time, but that's only because they have D governors.

DesertMoon , the NY law allows for abortions until birth only in really really specific circumstances. Even the chart above lists NY with a viability limit as a result of the limited exceptions. Having said that, you're not wrong that people went apeshit and there was rampant disinformation circulating here that babies were being killed after birth and other garbage.