@@@ ban on gas stoves being considered

[gardengal]

Jan 10, 2023 12:32:28 GMT -5 sunshineandpinot said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:50:37 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Induction is awesome. We’ve had ours for 9ish years and love it. Traditional electric burners are a pain, but our induction is so easy to clean and use. I think the only thing we have an issue with is charring peppers and then we use the grill. Cooking by numbers takes a bit to get used too, but then it is easier and just as controlable as gas.

+1. I have enjoyed my induction so much and I formally had gas. I will never not have induction if I can help it. 

Ditto. My H is a massive gas stove fan but we can’t vent it properly with the set up of our home so we got induction stove (w convection oven! Also awesome). It reacts just like gas, you just miss out on charring veg over an open flame. It’s easy to clean & I love that the top doesn’t get hot unless a pan is on the burner. No accidental burns!

we have a gas furnace & tankless water heater. I suspect the water heater just has about 5 more years left in it anyways. The bigger expense will be the furnace which is only about 10yrs old or so. Sigh. When we got that we thought we were making a good choice bc it was very efficient. 

[icedcoffee]

Well the good news is my house used to be Electric and the previous owners converted to gas so that should be easy peasy to go back. The bad news is..OMG electric heat in my area is so expensive. I am not kidding when I say that my house that in the dead of winter costs $200 to heat costs almost $1,000 as electric (we have neighbors still on electric with the same floorplan).

So...I guess when that happens we will install some solar panels or something.

Also--I'm assuming this is just natural gas, right? We have propane at our rental house for the stove and fireplace.

[icedcoffee]

Hopefully if we do get rid of natural gas AND cars all move to electric they start investing more in building the electric infrastructure.

[docholly]

It wouldn't be immediate, "You can't use your gas stove anymore."

"To be clear, CPSC isn't coming for anyone's gas stoves. Regulations apply to new products. For Americans who CHOOSE to switch from gas to electric, there is support available."




www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/01/10/gas-stove-ban-us/11022254002/

Information on the Inflation Reduction Act Rebate

www.consumerreports.org/appliances/inflation-reduction-act-and-new-electric-appliance-rebates-a3460144904/

[fancynewbeesly]

I remember Sandy when many people in our area didn’t have power for 8-10 days after. The people with electric weren’t able to cook. Or heat up food. Some of my friends had gas so everyone ate there.

When we moved a year and a half ago we went from oil heat and electric to gas and electric. Our appliances are new so they won’t be replaced for some time. We did add solar panels this summer to keep the cost down.

[jamaicam]

so things are complicated here. Our electricity is really dirty (old and inefficient oil plants, no renewables). Also an old and inefficient system so we lose electricity faily regularly and can be without for weeks post a hurricane.

Our gas stove is powered by a small tank that we by so no distribution issues. also we do not have central air so all our rooms are well ventilated (several outside windows in the kitchen whcih are always open and an extractor fan.

It is somethign I will now have to research next time I replace a stove but the hurricane issue is a huge one for me.

[basilosaurus]

Jan 10, 2023 13:14:15 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

so things are complicated here. Our electricity is really dirty (old and inefficient oil plants, no renewables). Also an old and inefficient system so we lose electricity faily regularly and can be without for weeks post a hurricane.

Our gas stove is powered by a small tank that we by so no distribution issues. also we do not have central air so all our rooms are well ventilated (several outside windows in the kitchen whcih are always open and an extractor fan.

It is somethign I will now have to research next time I replace a stove but the hurricane issue is a huge one for me.

don't know if you saw above but I get it, have lived it.

What's ac? We made sure to have tanks in different locations for prep. Obviously things have changed since I was a kid. But local resources didn't exist.

Hurricane is why we always had gas backup. It's not a us policy but it's worth pointing out. It was daily loss.

[jeaniebueller]

Jan 10, 2023 13:09:11 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

I remember Sandy when many people in our area didn’t have power for 8-10 days after. The people with electric weren’t able to cook. Or heat up food. Some of my friends had gas so everyone ate there.

When we moved a year and a half ago we went from oil heat and electric to gas and electric. Our appliances are new so they won’t be replaced for some time. We did add solar panels this summer to keep the cost down.

I was reading posts and comments about the Buffalo snowstorm from a few weeks ago and there were people who credit their survival in the days long power outage to their gas stove. Being able to cook, warm their hands over the burners, etc. That is a whole other infrastructure issue but it definitely is nice being able to use my range if we lose power.

[pixy0stix]

Yes, or you can get a generator if/when you need to get rid of your gas stove. Or invest in solar with a battery bank. Frankly, any other winter/emergency preparation is better than using your gas stove for emergency heat. Pretty much every emergency agency says to NOT use your gas stove for heat as it's too great an asphyxiation risk.

[jamaicam]

Jan 10, 2023 13:44:30 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Jan 10, 2023 13:14:15 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

so things are complicated here. Our electricity is really dirty (old and inefficient oil plants, no renewables). Also an old and inefficient system so we lose electricity faily regularly and can be without for weeks post a hurricane.

Our gas stove is powered by a small tank that we by so no distribution issues. also we do not have central air so all our rooms are well ventilated (several outside windows in the kitchen whcih are always open and an extractor fan.

It is somethign I will now have to research next time I replace a stove but the hurricane issue is a huge one for me.

don't know if you saw above but I get it, have lived it.

What's ac? We made sure to have tanks in different locations for prep. Obviously things have changed since I was a kid. But local resources didn't exist.

Hurricane is why we always had gas backup. It's not a us policy but it's worth pointing out. It was daily loss.

We have ac in the bedrooms only, single units. And we rarely use them. Ye it is hot but we are used to it. We have ceiling fans that go constantly. And houses are built for the heat big windows, trees outside for shade etc). 

pixy0stix, we have looked into solar panels but it is too expensive for us here with the cost of import etc - I worked out it would take over 20 years for us to break even with what we pay for electricity now. SO we just cut our electric use as much as possible. 

[basilosaurus]

But involve buy and invest. Who can? And certainly no renter can

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 13:57:19 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

Jan 10, 2023 13:44:30 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

don't know if you saw above but I get it, have lived it.

What's ac? We made sure to have tanks in different locations for prep. Obviously things have changed since I was a kid. But local resources didn't exist.

Hurricane is why we always had gas backup. It's not a us policy but it's worth pointing out. It was daily loss.

We have ac in the bedrooms only, single units. And we rarely use them. Ye it is hot but we are used to it. We have ceiling fans that go constantly. And houses are built for the heat big windows, trees outside for shade etc). 

pixy0stix , we have looked into solar panels but it is too expensive for us here with the cost of import etc - I worked out it would take over 20 years for us to break even with what we pay for electricity now. SO we just cut our electric use as much as possible. 

That's pretty standard. For me, we did it because we wanted to contribute to the green power available, and not for any monetary gain we would see. In other areas, getting solar in people's houses might be what helps them when the grid collapses (see CA and TX), so it's an emergency investment.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 13:58:58 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

But involve buy and invest. Who can? And certainly no renter can

Which is why legislation and enforcement has to happen.

[jamaicam]

Jan 10, 2023 14:03:42 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jan 10, 2023 13:57:19 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

We have ac in the bedrooms only, single units. And we rarely use them. Ye it is hot but we are used to it. We have ceiling fans that go constantly. And houses are built for the heat big windows, trees outside for shade etc). 

pixy0stix , we have looked into solar panels but it is too expensive for us here with the cost of import etc - I worked out it would take over 20 years for us to break even with what we pay for electricity now. SO we just cut our electric use as much as possible. 

That's pretty standard. For me, we did it because we wanted to contribute to the green power available, and not for any monetary gain we would see. In other areas, getting solar in people's houses might be what helps them when the grid collapses (see CA and TX), so it's an emergency investment.

Oh wow, thought I had read it was more like 10-15 years. Worth knowing. 

Small steps - we now have a solar heater for our hot water! And outside solar lights. 

[steamboat185]

Jan 10, 2023 13:58:58 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

But involve buy and invest. Who can? And certainly no renter can

A Coleman 2 burner camping stove is currently on sale for 28 dollars at Target. A 1lb propane canister is 10 dollars. While that doesn’t solve every problem it’s a pretty inexpensive and easy to store backup plan and what we use when the power goes out.

[macmars45]

I was just reading a different article about this earlier this morning.

H and I just got an electric line installed and bought an induction stove this past fall. It was not cheap. We can afford it thankfully. I know not everyone is in a financial position to do that.

[Poppy]

We had a gas stove but already had an electrical outlet there too. My H has been really strongly advocating for getting rid of all gas and we did replace the gas stove with an induction last year. I am really happy with it.

Next up on our list are heat pump and electric water heater but we have seen mixed info on how the heat pump will perform in the winter here (Colorado) and installers don't seem to be as knowledgeable about electric HVAC in general. IDK. It's a work in progress for us.

[turboteal]

Oof. Another thing to add to the list to worry about and figure out how to switch. Agree that having a gas stove was a major reason we could stay in our house as long as we did during the Winter storm, we were able to cook food/make tea for warmth, and if we hadn't evacuated when our house temp dropped into the 40s, we would have needed the gas stove to boil water once the boil water notice went into effect for the last few days. We did get solar panels later that year, and it was projected we would overproduce by 5-10%. Last year was the first full year of having them, and we did not fully cover our electric needs (and we have gas heating/water heater). Not sure if it was a rainier/cloudier year than previous, or just that using previous years electric usage history doesn't work for projections when every year the heat gets more extreme and demand goes up. We have a townhouse, not a lot of roof space, so I don't think we can add more. We do plan to add a battery, but it would have been another 17k I think on top of about 25k for the panels. We will probably still add one, but hopefully it will cost less with new rebates and incentives and less supply chain issues. But now I wonder if there will be any extra electricity to store in it? I also wonder how hard Texas aka big energy will fight against gas regulations.

[dirtyred]

Jan 10, 2023 10:59:37 GMT -5 AJL said:

During Winterpocaplypse, when we lost power for five days, having a gas stove was the ONLY thing that kept us warm. We were able to warm food and water. We don't have a fire place. We had no other way to make heat. Our inside temp got to 50 degrees. I never appreciated having a gas stove more than at that moment. 

We're sn all electric household. We have a kerosene heater rated for indoor use and a small camp stove in case we lose power.

[Velar Fricative]

In additions to the Consumer Reports above, here’s info about rebates coming this year:

www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/buying-new-stove-oven-or-dryer/

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 14:29:05 GMT -5 Poppy said:

We had a gas stove but already had an electrical outlet there too. My H has been really strongly advocating for getting rid of all gas and we did replace the gas stove with an induction last year. I am really happy with it.

Next up on our list are heat pump and electric water heater but we have seen mixed info on how the heat pump will perform in the winter here (Colorado) and installers don't seem to be as knowledgeable about electric HVAC in general. IDK. It's a work in progress for us.

FWIW, my H (building inspector) is seeing a lot of heat pumps being put in. He says that they're functional in COs environment.

[Bad Dingo]

I'm one of those people who fell for the "natural" gas marketing. I had no idea it was so bad! I love our gas stove but will look into switching and using the rebate. I'm wondering if the wording about using a rebate to upgrade your electric panel for a gas stove could also be used for upgrading for an electric vehicle.

[wawa]

For those in single family homes (i.e. with yards) who are looking at switching over to electric heat, we found a geothermal heat pump totally worth it. At the time we installed there were multiple layers of rebates/tax incentives available from different sources (our local utility, state, county, etc) so definitely do some googling around to see what you can offset before you decide it's too expensive. Fun bonus is that we essentially get unlimited "free" hot water anytime we're running the A/C since we set it up to dump waste heat into a secondary water heater tank.

I definitely second the idea above to pick up some basic camping equipment if you've used your gas stove as an emergency item in the past and are worried about replacing it with electric - it makes a nice double as emergency supplies and is pretty cheap and easy to store, and bonus, you can go camping! We had this conversation a while ago when I told MH that I wanted us to have dedicated emergency supplies (like you should) and he looked at the list I'd googled and sent him, and was like, "you know we a lot of this already in the backpacking stuff, right? (equipment to address water quality, cooking stuff, etc etc)"

For people concerned about their internal air quality in the short term, I cook a fair amount, and I still think I could easily get by for 80% of our meals with a single burner induction hot plate thing. So you could just get one of those and avoid using your gas stove except when you absolutely must. How often do you actually use multiple burners? Of course I say that as somebody who already has the appropriate cookware for induction, but...like $20 lodge cast iron and an induction plate gets you to a LOT of meals.

this whole topic makes me so glad that our street doesn't have gas lines. The rest of our area does, and when we were renovating our house 10 years ago we might would have gotten a few gas items if it were available, but it wasn't. We certainly didn't realize how bad it was at the time - the gas marketing as green being bullshit wasn't something I'd read up on much since it was a non-starter for our house.

[zelda25]

Our municipality has been pushing this for a while and we're trying to figure out how to make it work. Our furnace, water heater, and stove are gas. The water heater is already problematic because of the way it vents and I'm pretty sure it's trying to kill us.

We'll have to get a new electrical box to accommodate the switch. That's $$$$ and we don't qualify for anything under the Inflation Reduction Act. I'm guessing we're looking at around $20K to switch everything...yikes.

[tacokick]

I think it’s going to be difficult to switch from gas in an older city like Baltimore where most people not only have gas stoves and hot water tanks but we have gas powered boilers and radiator heat. Even with credits, it was incredibly expensive to try to make a switch to anything else last time my community org looked into it because not only would we need a new boiler etc but most people would apparently need an electric panel upgrade.

I’m not sure how the vast majority of people here would be able to make a switch or “save up” for one without major investment from the city and state. The prices we were quoted for our small (under 1000 sq ft) house was more than the average yearly household income in the city.

I guess starting with stoves and going from there will help ease people into it but it’s going to be rough.

[fuckyourcouch]

Jan 10, 2023 14:29:05 GMT -5 Poppy said:

We had a gas stove but already had an electrical outlet there too. My H has been really strongly advocating for getting rid of all gas and we did replace the gas stove with an induction last year. I am really happy with it.

Next up on our list are heat pump and electric water heater but we have seen mixed info on how the heat pump will perform in the winter here (Colorado) and installers don't seem to be as knowledgeable about electric HVAC in general. IDK. It's a work in progress for us.

This guy chronicled his experience in Denver during the extended negative Temps in December. No issues, and as you probably know that's not the norm here anyway.

[devonpow]

The town I live in voted to ban natural gas in any future buildings - I think that’s the start, not allowing it in new builds or renovations. Converting, as others have said, will be harder. Not only expense but time. I live in a neighborhood of 115+ year old houses, most with giant radiators and gas heat (and stoves). Just getting HVAC people in to do the replacement work on all the houses necessary will be years. It’s not a short term fix. At our house alone we have the gas heat, gas fireplace, gas stove, and we (just this summer) ran a gas line for our outdoor grill.

We re did our kitchen 6 years ago and I had no idea gas stoves were an issue. I would have gone for an induction oven instead of our giant gas range.

[orval]

Our heat pump could not keep up in NC during the holiday cold period. The upstairs did not get above 60 degrees and it was about 9 degrees outside. Our poor holiday guests were a tad bit chilly!

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2023 16:03:45 GMT -5 orval said:

Our heat pump could not keep up in NC during the holiday cold period. The upstairs did not get above 60 degrees and it was about 9 degrees outside. Our poor holiday guests were a tad bit chilly!

How old is your heat pump?

[SusanBAnthony]

We have gas stove, water heater, and furnace. We recently upgraded electric service to the house and it was about 7k. Getting circuits run for those three appliances would be more, based on other electric work I'm guessing 500-1000.

I have no concerns about switching the water heater and stove, and we probably will whenever they die. But I am not at all confident for heat. It gets -20 here most winters. The people I know with electric heat pay in the range of 1000$ a month.

If we have to switch to electric heat and it costs 1k a month that will really suck.