Our heat pump could not keep up in NC during the holiday cold period. The upstairs did not get above 60 degrees and it was about 9 degrees outside. Our poor holiday guests were a tad bit chilly!
How old is your heat pump?
I think it is about 5-6 years old. We don't usually get that cold here though. Normal coldest lows are in the upper 20's/30's.
It'll be interesting to have a discussion about cost once the natural gas subsidies go away. There are so many things that we (general) don't know the true cost.
This is all very interesting. There’s was a big discussion last year between our gas company and the govt (don’t remember details). But I remember getting emails from the gas co. stating if the govt didn’t do what they wanted we could all lose heat over the cold winter. The govt did it, so I just assumed it was all fine. Silly me. But then now we have our electric company allegedly contaminating our water supply and my city has shut off 7/8 wells and buys from a close by city. So that’s fun too.
I just wish the demise of the planet would happen at once to make it easier. I’ve read the dystopian novels. I’m no survivor.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Jan 10, 2023 17:02:55 GMT -5
I appreciate the urge to push everything to electric, solar, or other forms of energy, but have concerns about whether the power grids will be sufficiently updated to meet what will become a substantially increased demand. I have concerns about telling homeowners "better start budgeting now" for things like generators or new expensive hvac equipment and appliances, especially when for older houses that process can also involve substantial updating to ductwork, etc. Tax credits to put in updates to solar or electric are great, if you are in a financial position to put that money out at the beginning and then wait for the government to reimburse you a year later. Its a nice idea, but one that will foist a lot of responsibility on people who may not be in a financial position to make those changes.
I appreciate the urge to push everything to electric, solar, or other forms of energy, but have concerns about whether the power grids will be sufficiently updated to meet what will become a substantially increased demand. I have concerns about telling homeowners "better start budgeting now" for things like generators or new expensive hvac equipment and appliances, especially when for older houses that process can also involve substantial updating to ductwork, etc. Tax credits to put in updates to solar or electric are great, if you are in a financial position to put that money out at the beginning and then wait for the government to reimburse you a year later. Its a nice idea, but one that will foist a lot of responsibility on people who may not be in a financial position to make those changes.
Well, we can continue to fart around and tell people it's all going to be ok (it's not). OR, we can prepare people, and those that can do it now can prepare and not put a strain on the system for those that can't later down the road. We need to be pushing the government on this, and they have actually started to move.
Power grids are a major concern, but again, sitting around handwringing and waiting is only going to make a bigger catastrophe later. This isn't stuff that we can shove under the rug for later. We are at end game.
Well the good news is my house used to be Electric and the previous owners converted to gas so that should be easy peasy to go back. The bad news is..OMG electric heat in my area is so expensive. I am not kidding when I say that my house that in the dead of winter costs $200 to heat costs almost $1,000 as electric (we have neighbors still on electric with the same floorplan).
So...I guess when that happens we will install some solar panels or something.
Also--I'm assuming this is just natural gas, right? We have propane at our rental house for the stove and fireplace.
I'm sorry if I've told you this before. We live in the same region and have no gas at our house at all - we have a heat pump and electric appliances. Our energy bill is $128 a month year round. I do recognize that we are in a center unit townhouse so having fewer exterior walls surely helps... But I find the cost very comparable to what I've paid with gas heat elsewhere. And the COL here is much higher than anywhere else I've lived, so comparatively electric is fairly cheap here. I wonder if your neighbor's experience is more related to their specific system than would be typical.
Interesting to read about heat pumps that are not able to keep up. Mom mom has had a heat pump for around ten years, so it’s not even the newest or most efficient, and it keeps her otherwise heatless den very toasty, even during the coldest Maine nights.
Does anyone have a non-gas fireplace they could recommend? I’d really like to add a fireplace, but our house is currently fossil fuel free and I’d like to keep it that way. Can electric feel cozy like an open flame? I grew up with a wood fireplace and stove in the house, and miss that.
Post by icedcoffee on Jan 10, 2023 18:00:13 GMT -5
I admittedly know very little about this, but I’m confused about why even all the new construction is gas heating and stoves. Any they’re all “energy star” and highly efficient and shit. It seems like a huge disconnect that they’d still be building gas if it’s so bad.
Our heat pump could not keep up in NC during the holiday cold period. The upstairs did not get above 60 degrees and it was about 9 degrees outside. Our poor holiday guests were a tad bit chilly!
This surprises me. I'm near Baltimore and haven't had any issues with our heat pump performing in cold temps. There is also a backup heat source (which is still electric but idk how it works) that will kick in if the heat pump doesn't, but to my knowledge it hasn't come on*
*We were out of town during the recent cold snap so who knows what happened while we were gone
**We did have a big issue with our heat pump line cracking our first year in our house and had to replace the compressor entirely, but according to the HVAC company that was an issue with the way it was installed vs a general heat pump issue (our previous owner cut corners on a lot of stuff and it has shown in many other things ways too)
Well the good news is my house used to be Electric and the previous owners converted to gas so that should be easy peasy to go back. The bad news is..OMG electric heat in my area is so expensive. I am not kidding when I say that my house that in the dead of winter costs $200 to heat costs almost $1,000 as electric (we have neighbors still on electric with the same floorplan).
So...I guess when that happens we will install some solar panels or something.
Also--I'm assuming this is just natural gas, right? We have propane at our rental house for the stove and fireplace.
I'm sorry if I've told you this before. We live in the same region and have no gas at our house at all - we have a heat pump and electric appliances. Our energy bill is $128 a month year round. I do recognize that we are in a center unit townhouse so having fewer exterior walls surely helps... But I find the cost very comparable to what I've paid with gas heat elsewhere. And the COL here is much higher than anywhere else I've lived, so comparatively electric is fairly cheap here. I wonder if your neighbor's experience is more related to their specific system than would be typical.
I think it’s pretty typical. Now of course this was one of those polar vortex months a few years ago, but we heard quite a few similar complaints on next door. I do know our builder had horrible insulation which we did upgrade and also got new windows which I don’t think they did.
Center townhouse does help a lot. Our old townhouse we rarely used heat honestly.
I admittedly know very little about this, but I’m confused about why even all the new construction is gas heating and stoves. Any they’re all “energy star” and highly efficient and shit. It seems like a huge disconnect that they’d still be building gas if it’s so bad.
Seattle City Council voted a few years ago to change the energy code to ban gas heating in the construction of new commercial buildings and apartment buildings taller than 3 stories. Energy codes for houses and townhomes are governed by the state so any changes there would have to be made at the state level.
But I'm guessing most developers and builders will just continue to build the option that is cheaper and they're familiar with unless the codes change or there is a shift in what the general consumer is wanting.
The article makes it sound like it affects kids in the home so if I don't have kids, can I keep my gas stove?
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought bans like this normally only applied to new construction/installation, and sometimes when a property changes hands, not like everyone needs to run out and replace their gas stoves all at once. Same way new cars are all required to have backup cameras, but it's still legal for me to drive and even sell my '99 Accord that predates them.
I would like to switch over to electric soon. I do absolutely love cooking on our gas stove, don't get me wrong, but DH has been having asthma-like symptoms since a while after we move in here (first home with gas for us), and particularly when we are cooking. And I hate the hood... it reduces his symptoms, but it's so goddamn loud, you just can't have a conversation in the kitchen when it's going. Anyhow, it's not just about kids.
I'm sorry if I've told you this before. We live in the same region and have no gas at our house at all - we have a heat pump and electric appliances. Our energy bill is $128 a month year round. I do recognize that we are in a center unit townhouse so having fewer exterior walls surely helps... But I find the cost very comparable to what I've paid with gas heat elsewhere. And the COL here is much higher than anywhere else I've lived, so comparatively electric is fairly cheap here. I wonder if your neighbor's experience is more related to their specific system than would be typical.
I think it’s pretty typical. Now of course this was one of those polar vortex months a few years ago, but we heard quite a few similar complaints on next door. I do know our builder had horrible insulation which we did upgrade and also got new windows which I don’t think they did.
Center townhouse does help a lot. Our old townhouse we rarely used heat honestly.
So that's not a general monthly cost then, right?
There is no way I would sign up for regular monthly bills that high, but I wonder how much their overall typical cost compares. Even being a center unit townhouse, I find it hard to believe that my bill is almost 1/10 of a typical bill for single family homes, you know what I mean? It's still a 1500 square foot house and it's 3 levels so the system does have to put some effort into heating our upper level.
I just don't want people to think that switching to electric has to mean huge bills - that hasn't been my experience at all.
The article makes it sound like it affects kids in the home so if I don't have kids, can I keep my gas stove?
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought bans like this normally only applied to new construction/installation, and sometimes when a property changes hands, not like everyone needs to run out and replace their gas stoves all at once. Same way new cars are all required to have backup cameras, but it's still legal for me to drive and even sell my '99 Accord that predates them.
I would like to switch over to electric soon. I do absolutely love cooking on our gas stove, don't get me wrong, but DH has been having asthma-like symptoms since a while after we move in here (first home with gas for us), and particularly when we are cooking. And I hate the hood... it reduces his symptoms, but it's so goddamn loud, you just can't have a conversation in the kitchen when it's going. Anyhow, it's not just about kids.
Yeah, I was mostly being tongue in cheek. Unlike Ted Cruz, I know no one is going to come rip out our gas stove. And if we have to switch eventually I’ll deal with it. But I will be bummed. Our gas stove and fireplace saved our asses during the TX Great Freeze.
I think it’s pretty typical. Now of course this was one of those polar vortex months a few years ago, but we heard quite a few similar complaints on next door. I do know our builder had horrible insulation which we did upgrade and also got new windows which I don’t think they did.
Center townhouse does help a lot. Our old townhouse we rarely used heat honestly.
So that's not a general monthly cost then, right?
There is no way I would sign up for regular monthly bills that high, but I wonder how much their overall typical cost compares. Even being a center unit townhouse, I find it hard to believe that my bill is almost 1/10 of a typical bill for single family homes, you know what I mean? It's still a 1500 square foot house and it's 3 levels so the system does have to put some effort into heating our upper level.
I just don't want people to think that switching to electric has to mean huge bills - that hasn't been my experience at all.
No—from what I’m told they average closer to $300 in the winter whereas we’re around $200 so more but not crazy except in a polar vortex.
I’ll be interested to see what our heating bills at our beach rental end up being. It’s electric but new energy efficient house. And we’re only there like 10 days a month and keep it at 52 otherwise. 😂
I admittedly know very little about this, but I’m confused about why even all the new construction is gas heating and stoves. Any they’re all “energy star” and highly efficient and shit. It seems like a huge disconnect that they’d still be building gas if it’s so bad.
There's several areas and states that are banning adding gas lines to new developments. It's something that is going to spread within the next couple of years. Just because it's still being done doesn't mean that it's good. It just means that it's tied up in red tape somewhere.
I admittedly know very little about this, but I’m confused about why even all the new construction is gas heating and stoves. Any they’re all “energy star” and highly efficient and shit. It seems like a huge disconnect that they’d still be building gas if it’s so bad.
The construction companies are about what will make them money, period. People buying houses want gas ovens so that's what they put in. It's supposed to be an upgrade or some shit. Which I get; it cooks great. That's why we replaced our gas oven with an induction oven. Unfortunately, induction ovens are expensive. As of Jan 1st you can wait 9-12 months and get a rebate from the federal government though. So at least there's that.
*We bought a new construction house two years ago and the only gas in the house was the oven. Oh, and our fireplace which we've never used and have no plans to do so in the future.
We just converted our fireplace to gas like 2 years ago. I’m guessing that was a stupid idea?
Ugh—-I just hate how hard it is to make the correct decisions environmentally and for health. It seems like I’m always choosing wrong!
We did the same thing just last year. 😭 put in 2 gas inserts. I love them, but I feel a lot different about them a year later.
If you haven’t looked into water heater replacement, the new heat pump water heaters are the ones that have lots of rebates under the inflation reduction act. We need to move our (gas) water heater, and right now, it’s sticking through a wall into the newly remodeled basement because I decided to wait until 2023 to convert it to the heat pump style. Which… it is 2023, so I need to get on that.
But that said, I’m married to an electrician, so I honestly don’t factor in the cost of new circuits in anything. Which reminds me… I need to nag him to put in the circuit where we want that, and to run the circuit for our eventual change over to convection cooking. He is arguing with me on that. But, we did (just last week) finally get our hood venting fixed so it does vent to the outside, rather than recirculating.
We just converted our fireplace to gas like 2 years ago. I’m guessing that was a stupid idea?
Ugh—-I just hate how hard it is to make the correct decisions environmentally and for health. It seems like I’m always choosing wrong!
We did the same thing just last year. 😭 put in 2 gas inserts. I love them, but I feel a lot different about them a year later.
If you haven’t looked into water heater replacement, the new heat pump water heaters are the ones that have lots of rebates under the inflation reduction act. We need to move our (gas) water heater, and right now, it’s sticking through a wall into the newly remodeled basement because I decided to wait until 2023 to convert it to the heat pump style. Which… it is 2023, so I need to get on that.
But that said, I’m married to an electrician, so I honestly don’t factor in the cost of new circuits in anything. Which reminds me… I need to nag him to put in the circuit where we want that, and to run the circuit for our eventual change over to convection cooking. He is arguing with me on that. But, we did (just last week) finally get our hood venting fixed so it does vent to the outside, rather than recirculating.
Our water heater is about 9 years old so I guess we will convert that when it dies.
icedcoffee, yeah. Our is 14 years old. We wanted to move it into the closet where it apparently was originally (everything is still there). But it’s so old, we were figuring replacing instead of moving. And it’s not in that closet because of venting. The heat pump ones need venting (and they cool the area), but it can be handled by a louvered door.
As I was driving through the rain in January in CO (wtf) this morning, it struck me that this is one of those regulations that needs to be passed on the oil and gas industry. I've always said that people weren't going to like it when those regulations started being passed, they just didn't understand what it would entail.
Post by mrsukyankee on Jan 11, 2023 10:26:38 GMT -5
Not in US, but we're trying to figure out our future heating/hot water as our gas boiler is coming to the end of its life. From what I've read, heat pumps don't work well with the 100+ yr old, non-insulated walls houses (and you can't insulate the walls due to construction of them - no cavity to insulate). Plus space is an issue for anything that needs to go outside. We might be able to do solar, but it's unlikely to cover us entirely, even with a battery, but it's something I'm looking into. Not sure of other options that would work for us right now, but I'm exploring.
Post by picksthemusic on Jan 11, 2023 10:33:00 GMT -5
I talked to my H about this last night and we both agreed that while we have wanted a gas stove for a long time (we currently just have a glass top non-induction stove), we would go with induction in any new stove or oven. My mom has induction and I really like it since it's so precise.
Post by chickadee77 on Jan 11, 2023 13:21:40 GMT -5
This is all great, but shouldn't the infrastructure be in place BEFORE phasing out natural gas? I mean, our neighborhood browns out on the first hot day of the year when folks turn on their AC for the first time. And not everyone has AC since it's not a super hot climate.
I get that this is to phase out natural gas use in new construction, which I'm all for.
I also wonder about industries that use a lot of natural gas - some are on 100-year plans to pay for their natural gas pipelines they put in back in the 50's. I don't see them turning around and saying, "Yeah, electric is probably a better way to go here!"
I'm not at all trying to be a naysayer, and I realize this all has to start somewhere, but it chafes a bit that, once again, it seems like a case of "Let's make everyone do this one thing but give the really big offenders a free pass because capitalism."
This is all great, but shouldn't the infrastructure be in place BEFORE phasing out natural gas? I mean, our neighborhood browns out on the first hot day of the year when folks turn on their AC for the first time. And not everyone has AC since it's not a super hot climate.
I get that this is to phase out natural gas use in new construction, which I'm all for.
I also wonder about industries that use a lot of natural gas - some are on 100-year plans to pay for their natural gas pipelines they put in back in the 50's. I don't see them turning around and saying, "Yeah, electric is probably a better way to go here!"
I'm not at all trying to be a naysayer, and I realize this all has to start somewhere, but it chafes a bit that, once again, it seems like a case of "Let's make everyone do this one thing but give the really big offenders a free pass because capitalism."
Well, CA isn't planning on phasing out gas appliances until 2030, and they're the first ones that have passed this kind of legislation.
Basically, what this is doing is bringing up the possibility so that people have the time to prepare. For the most part, according to some of these responses, we shouldn't even be telling people to prepare in the first place.
Also, once again, we are in the "we fucked around, now we're finding out" phase. Some of this should have been started 20-30 years ago, but the "but shouldn't we" folks had the upper hand and here we are.
ALSO, THIS IS THE GIVE THE BIG OFFENDERS A KICK LEGISLATION! FFS. Did you (general) really think your day to day lives were going to stay the same when oil and gas started to really get regulated? Of course all of this would be severely restricted. This is the result.
People are going to be rocked to their core when shit really gets going. That's all I can say. You look at the thread on ML where people are talking about how expensive everything is... One of my goals this entire time has been to protect my family, which includes saving and getting things in place to weather what's coming. So many people are going to be blind sided. The only people that are truly going to get through all of this unscathed are rich people, and people who have tried their damndest to be prepared. Everyone else is really going to suffer, and there's not much anyone, including all phases of government, are going to be able to do about it.
ALSO, THIS IS THE GIVE THE BIG OFFENDERS A KICK LEGISLATION! FFS. Did you (general) really think your day to day lives were going to stay the same when oil and gas started to really get regulated? Of course all of this would be severely restricted. This is the result.
Oh, I agree. I just hope it does, indeed, trickle up (is that a thing?) to industries. Of course every effort, no matter how small, is important. I just wish everyone could agree to work together. Wishful thinking and all that.