@TW: Boston area story of Infanticide/suicide

[isabel]

Jan 27, 2023 23:06:12 GMT -5 devonpow said:

It’s also so hard to ask for help or even know you need help sometimes - for me I truly didn’t think it was PPD. It was just “I made a mistake. I’m not meant to be a mom. 

Yep. It didn't occur to me until well after the fact that I had PPD. I just thought I had made a huge mistake. I even told DH I wished we could just take the baby back to the hospital (didn't even call him by his name).

I'm pretty open about it now. But it was truly having the opposite experience with DS2 that made me realize how problematic my postpartum experience was the first time around.

I am so sad for her older children who must have been so scared in those last moments. This is just so horrific.

[dcrunnergirl52]

Sending hugs and love to everyone writing about their experiences here. I too had horrible, horrible PPD with my twins, with suicidal ideation and thoughts about what would happen if I just walked into traffic.

devonpow , I too didn't recognize it for a long time b/c I also just thought that I had made a horrible mistake by having kids, and those feelings were exacerbated by the fact that we did IF treatments to have them along with all of society's feelings on how women should love being mothers.

I remember laying in bed with my twins just thinking about how I ruined my life for the next 18 years. And, to be honest, it triggered anxiety and depression in me that to this day (12+ years later), I still struggle with, and take meds and just recently started therapy.

[erbear]

Awful awful awful. I’ve also lived in the PPD world with my first — when I read about things like this I feel grateful that it never got this far with me. I still remember how dark my thoughts were and how much I regretted having a baby. It was awful and scary and I just wish we could figure out how to take care of women at this most vulnerable and difficult time. Hugs to you all sharing here. You’re not alone.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jan 27, 2023 19:51:29 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jan 27, 2023 17:35:58 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

I think she attended intensive therapy 5 days a week. I’m not sure if the family tried to get her an inpatient admittance or not. Insurance might not have covered it. But it does seem like she had support. Obviously it wasn’t enough.

That’s what struck me most about this. Obviously an investigation will need to happen about gaps in her healthcare, but at first glance this is not someone who fell through the cracks in the sense I assumed she had before reading about this. So now we have to think about what truly is enough help to ensure another unspeakable tragedy like this does not happen again. Heartbreaking all around.

A friend of mine committed suicide and that is the thing that sticks with me about her death. She had been very open about her suicidal thoughts and was getting help. But it clearly wasn't enough. So what is the answer? I don't know. Another friend has had frequent 48 hour holds for suicidal thoughts and she is always released afterwards to continue seeing her therapist. I worry a lot about her and she's "doing everything right".

[SusanBAnthony]

I had pretty bad PPD with my first. It was a lot better with my second but still probably bad.... just not relative to the first time.

I saw a therapist and got on Zoloft but honestly it just took the edge off. If I could have had a do over through those first two years, I would have gone back and not had a baby. Like a few others have mentioned I felt like I'd made a terrible mistake and just wasn't meant to be a parent. I love my kids but still feel like sometimes (in a much different way).

For me a huge component was sleep. All of the baby sleep stuff really enrages me because my kid was in much more danger from me not sleeping than from sleeping on his stomach or in a RnP or whatever.

[beerlover]

SusanBAnthony, sleep was a huge issue for me too. I really think the lack of sleep launched me right into depression. I think if I had been getting adequate rest I might've still had some issues but not to the extent that I had.

And the baby sleep stuff enrages me too. My kid slept in an RNP and then a swing otherwise I would've been even worse off than I was.

[devonpow]

Sleep is HUGE. I don’t want to downplay biological/brain
/hormone reasons for depression, nor the need for medication at times, but I think the lack of sleep majorly exacerbates things. I mean, humans aren’t really meant to live the way we do now, separated from extended family/not in more communal living situations. There’s no real help with sleep, and the lack of sleep a lot of new parents experience is frankly dangerous. Yet we aren’t given any real solutions. With DS2 we were lucky enough to be able to get a night nurse s few nights a week for the first few months and the difference it made was HUGE. But, how is that feasible for most people? It’s not.

[tiramisu]

Hugs to everyone who's experienced PPA/PPD/PPP and to everyone who's lost someone to suicide.

I know that therapists by and large do not get enough training on PPA, PPD, and PPP unless they seek it out. Which many do not. Among other things, sites where therapists get their experience before getting licensed don't often serve people who are postpartum. Plus I've noticed some therapists just really aren't good at our comfortable with assessing for suicidality. I also think the mental health laws related to involuntary confinements (and probably largely what insurance dictates about inpatient care) greatly affects this. People go to the hospital because they're having thoughts of killing themselves or others. The hospital says "yeah, all that's they felt that way, but first thing this morning they said they're fine, so we're releasing them," often with a follow-up appointment that's a couple weeks out and rarely with much medication, if any. At least from what I've seen. So how is anyone supposed to actually get help? Not to mention the stigma of someone expressing anything other than joy, gratitude, and other positive feelings about having a child. I think lots of things need to be overhauled to address this. #1 would be caring about women for more than their reproductive capacity.

As an aside, the language has moved towards saying died by suicide.

This is an awful tragedy and my heart breaks for everyone involved and connected to it.

[icedcoffee]

The father posted a very sweet tribute to the kids in the update section to the go fund me:

www.gofundme.com/f/patrick-clancy-donations?fbclid=IwAR0S_UDWWDtqDiwuS6bU5iV_YIGHQ5INOlqt-wpF_MJcg_bIiR4S-JepmT4&mibextid=tejx2t

I had heard he was hospitalized after the baby died for mental health reasons so im surprised he was able to pull his thoughts together so well so soon. I hope he and the mom are both able to find peace.

[maudefindlay]

Sleep and just time for our bodies to heal. For many of us at that stage in life giving birth is the biggest medical event we have experienced and society puts so much pressure on us to bounce our bodies back, to breast feed which is so damn hard, etc etc. I had fourth degree tear and just felt like I was in a cycle of tend to my wound, feed baby, try to eat/catch sleep and repeat. And I have a very hands on and involved DH, but he looked all fit and trim and wanted to go do stuff and I just felt very doom and gloom like what did I do?

[shauni27]

Jan 28, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

The father posted a very sweet tribute to the kids in the update section to the go fund me:

www.gofundme.com/f/patrick-clancy-donations?fbclid=IwAR0S_UDWWDtqDiwuS6bU5iV_YIGHQ5INOlqt-wpF_MJcg_bIiR4S-JepmT4&mibextid=tejx2t

I had heard he was hospitalized after the baby died for mental health reasons so im surprised he was able to pull his thoughts together so well so soon. I hope he and the mom are both able to find peace.

Well,fuck. That’s one of the toughest things I’ve ever read. That poor, poor man.

[maudefindlay]

Jan 28, 2023 18:29:38 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Jan 28, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

The father posted a very sweet tribute to the kids in the update section to the go fund me:

www.gofundme.com/f/patrick-clancy-donations?fbclid=IwAR0S_UDWWDtqDiwuS6bU5iV_YIGHQ5INOlqt-wpF_MJcg_bIiR4S-JepmT4&mibextid=tejx2t

I had heard he was hospitalized after the baby died for mental health reasons so im surprised he was able to pull his thoughts together so well so soon. I hope he and the mom are both able to find peace.

Well,fuck. That’s one of the toughest things I’ve ever read. That poor, poor man.

Especially touching all the attention he gave to the infant. An 8 month old is cute and sweet, but they don't talk etc and he gave such a detailed description and described his importance so well, you just know he was an involved Dad. Damn. And his love and care for his wife. Bless them both.

[wanderingback]

Ugh how horrific.
I was interested in psychiatry when I started med school. I was a psychology major in undergrad and worked in mental health for several years before going to med school.
During my psych rotation in med school I realized it wasn’t for me, it was so sad to me, even sadder than my oncology rotation. Something about people being so mentally ill, even with treatment and doing the ”right" things really haunted me.

I’m rambling but just wanted to share that because there are definitely systemic problems, but sometimes people are just really really ill and it’s so tragic that this is this family’s story.

Love to all of those who have gone through or are going through mental health challenges.

[icedcoffee]

Jan 28, 2023 18:29:38 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Jan 28, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

The father posted a very sweet tribute to the kids in the update section to the go fund me:

www.gofundme.com/f/patrick-clancy-donations?fbclid=IwAR0S_UDWWDtqDiwuS6bU5iV_YIGHQ5INOlqt-wpF_MJcg_bIiR4S-JepmT4&mibextid=tejx2t

I had heard he was hospitalized after the baby died for mental health reasons so im surprised he was able to pull his thoughts together so well so soon. I hope he and the mom are both able to find peace.

Well,fuck. That’s one of the toughest things I’ve ever read. That poor, poor man.

Right? The part where he talks about the order they wake up in and their routine just made me lose it because I found it so relatable.

[lostrn]

That tribute was so beautiful. And for him to say such kind words about her at this time, I find that so touching. That's not quite the right word, I'm not sure what I am trying to say.

[pinkyp]

Gut wrenching. My heart breaks for all of them.

[wildrice]

This is just a horrible, horrible tragedy. I wish healing for both parents. I don't even know what else to say.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 28, 2023 18:49:59 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ugh how horrific.
I was interested in psychiatry when I started med school. I was a psychology major in undergrad and worked in mental health for several years before going to med school.
During my psych rotation in med school I realized it wasn’t for me, it was so sad to me, even sadder than my oncology rotation. Something about people being so mentally ill, even with treatment and doing the ”right" things really haunted me.

I’m rambling but just wanted to share that because there are definitely systemic problems, but sometimes people are just really really ill and it’s so tragic that this is this family’s story.

Love to all of those who have gone through or are going through mental health challenges.

Yes, just like no matter what you throw at cancer - sometimes cancer still wins. Sometimes - no matter what you throw at mental illness - mental illness still wins. 

The difference is often what we blame (although I'll say we're getting better-ish) - but people blame cancer for killing and blame the person for succumbing to the mental illness. 

[mcppalmbeach]

Reading the father’s statement was gut wrenching. I am blown away by how lovingly he speaks of his wife and his capacity for forvgiveness. I do not have that much Grace, not by a long shot.

[Pilsy]

I'm in awe of his writing, which is not only coherent but quite eloquent. He doesn't owe the public anything, but I'm really grateful to know a little something about each of these babies. Very generous of their dad to share them with the grieving public the way he has through his written tributes.

[pugz]

this is just so sad. After my friend's experience with post partum anxiety after having twins she lobbied her representative and got a bill passed that now requires pediatricians to do PPD/PPA screenings of parents the first year because new moms see their baby's doctor so often but only see their doctor once, 6 weeks after baby is born. The hope is that they will catch these things sooner an get moms the help they need. I'd like to see a similar policy in every state.

[somersault72]

That GFM update from the father/husband was so hard to read. I do love that he wants to let people know who "the real" Lindsay was and to try to keep people, especially those that don't know her from vilifying her. What an awful, awful situation for all involved.

[sonrisa]

Years ago, someone "here" posted very bravely about how PPD/PPA was affecting her and went in for an in patient stay. She was very honest about her struggle, how going in patient had made a difference. What had and hadn't helped, etc.

If you are still out there, I want to say thank you. Thank you for being so brave, open and real. I know your honesty made the struggle real for so many. There were people here who went and got treatment/meds/therapy because of your example.

(Over the years I've lost track of which of us traces back to which names and which stories from the old place. I apologize for not remembering if you are still here and hope you don't feel called out with this. PM me if you want me to delete this).

[icedcoffee]

I cannot stop thinking about this case. I have become literally obsessed with it. I feel so sad for everyone involved and everyone who loves that family.

[beerlover]

sonrisa, I remember that post also and I really appreciated reading about that person's experience after I had PPD myself. It made me feel less alone. Thank you, poster, if you're still here!

[imimahoney]

Jan 30, 2023 16:03:31 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I cannot stop thinking about this case. I have become literally obsessed with it. I feel so sad for everyone involved and everyone who loves that family.

I also become obsessed with this story, which is why I initially posted the article.. I thought others would want to read/talk it over.

But I quickly realized that my fixation with it was becoming unhealthy and was bringing up painful memories of my time suffering from PPD.

Don't feel bad or guilty if you need to step away from the news. Trauma like his can impact you even if you aren't directly related to the event.

[lo]

I just keep thinking about her coming out of the psychosis and realizing what’s she’s done. UGH my heart just breaks for every person in that family. We also go to that beach every summer so it’s just extra sticking in my head.

[wildrice]

Jan 30, 2023 11:57:29 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

Reading the father’s statement was gut wrenching. I am blown away by how lovingly he speaks of his wife and his capacity for forvgiveness. I do not have that much Grace, not by a long shot.

But it wasn't her fault. It's kind of like if someone was driving with their kids and had some kind of medical event and crashed and the kids died. She didn't make a choice to do this, she is suffering from psychosis. It sounds like she was trying to get help and just couldn't recover in time. It's incredibly sad.

That's not say that the H won't go through a whole range of emotions about this and anger will probably be one of them, but I'm glad he's approaching it from the perspective that the true her would never have done this. I am just heartbroken for them both. I hope she gets the help she needs and can find some kind of life after this.

[gretchenindisguise]

Jan 30, 2023 20:09:53 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Jan 30, 2023 11:57:29 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

Reading the father’s statement was gut wrenching. I am blown away by how lovingly he speaks of his wife and his capacity for forvgiveness. I do not have that much Grace, not by a long shot.

But it wasn't her fault. It's kind of like if someone was driving with their kids and had some kind of medical event and crashed and the kids died. She didn't make a choice to do this, she is suffering from psychosis. It sounds like she was trying to get help and just couldn't recover in time. It's incredibly sad.

That's not say that the H won't go through a whole range of emotions about this and anger will probably be one of them, but I'm glad he's approaching it from the perspective that the true her would never have done this. I am just heartbroken for them both. I hope she gets the help she needs and can find some kind of life after this.

Yes. This needs to be highlighted as it's the best analogy: it is the same as if a mom was driving with their kids and had a medical event, crashed and the kids died.

[ckay]

I can’t help but think the dad is going to struggle with guilt for leaving to get food (I am NOT saying he did anything wrong, just I assume he’s going to second guess that decision for the rest of his life). Just a terrible situation all around.