@TW: Boston area story of Infanticide/suicide

[imimahoney]

Feb 7, 2023 15:58:44 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

She was arraigned today. She'll be allowed to stay in the hospital where she's at and then be transferred to an inpatient mental health facility awaiting trial.

The details the prosecutor presented were horrible. It sounds like it was premeditated and she woke up in the hospital remembering it all and asked if she needs an attorney present.

The details of the day she killed her children, just awful. And to hear how her husband found out? That poor man.

[Pilsy]

I honestly didn't think I could be more disturbed by these events. I was wrong.

[lo]

Feb 7, 2023 16:47:09 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

I honestly didn't think I could be more disturbed by these events. I was wrong.

Same, same, saaaaaame

[maudefindlay]

The case the prosecutor presented had many new details that were for sure upsetting and not all in line with info that had been out prior.

[Velar Fricative]

I have no idea what I was actually expecting but I am still shocked.

[sugarbear1]

I feel like what I just read and listened to is not at all what I understood last week. It's horrifying.

[icedcoffee]

I have a question for people that know the system better than me.

So Lindsay’s attorney asked for her to be able to stay in her Boston hospital and then transfer to Spaulding rehab or similar “fancier hospitals” than the state prison hospitals (calling them inhumane). I read that once she was officially charged medical bills are paid by the state vs insurance. So how does this work now that she’s been allowed to stay there vs the state run hospitals? Do they just continue to pay her medical care until her trial which could be tests off?

[maudefindlay]

So the husband's gut wrenching post was in the early days after this happened and now with today's info it appears Lindsay had only really woken up the day before that came out. With all this new info I wonder if he still feels the same as he did in that post. Obviously none of my business, just something I thought of as I read about this today.

[gretchenindisguise]

It seems as though people aren’t understanding psychosis. Actions can be remembered, planned, premeditated, etc - they just aren't based in reality.

[AJL]

Feb 7, 2023 18:36:14 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

It seems as though people aren’t understanding psychosis. Actions can be remembered, planned, premeditated, etc - they just aren't based in reality.

Thank you! I had a long post detailing that everything Lindsay did and how she behaved would not rule out psychosis but didn't post.

[laurack]

Feb 7, 2023 18:36:14 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

It seems as though people aren’t understanding psychosis. Actions can be remembered, planned, premeditated, etc - they just aren't based in reality.

Also this is the prosecution- obviously they’ll present the case this way.

[icedcoffee]

Feb 7, 2023 18:26:11 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

So the husband's gut wrenching post was in the early days after this happened and now with today's info it appears Lindsay had only really woken up the day before that came out. With all this new info I wonder if he still feels the same as he did in that post. Obviously none of my business, just something I thought of as I read about this today.

I read that his apology came out immediately after he had a meeting with the priest from his church where they talked about forgiveness and I’m guessing they talked about forgiveness and how carrying around that much anger is too much to expect of yourself. Of course I can’t remember where I read it to post a source. LOL

[icedcoffee]

Feb 7, 2023 18:36:14 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

It seems as though people aren’t understanding psychosis. Actions can be remembered, planned, premeditated, etc - they just aren't based in reality.

This is a fair assessment of my understanding. 😂

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 7, 2023 19:10:47 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Feb 7, 2023 18:36:14 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

It seems as though people aren’t understanding psychosis. Actions can be remembered, planned, premeditated, etc - they just aren't based in reality.

This is a fair assessment of my understanding. 😂

I don't think you are alone.

It seems like people are thinking it'd be more like what they show on tv, where the person is completely out of their mind and then "come to" and have no idea what they did.

When that's not what it is at all. It really hinges on their mental state at the time. The actions may be logical, but the rationale for the actions is not. Ie - she thought killing them was actually protecting them from a worse fate.

[lo]

I think I was thinking it was more along those lines. How it was reported and her jumping out of the window (apparently) made it sound to me like it was very chaotic. I did think she would “come out of it,” but I guess I understood it incorrectly.

[maudefindlay]

Was psychosis mentioned today by prosecution or defense?

[icedcoffee]

Feb 7, 2023 20:17:57 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Was psychosis mentioned today by prosecution or defense?

The only time it came up was when prosecution said that she spoke to her H and he asked why she did it and she said “I had a moment of psychosis”. Other than that it was not really mentioned. Prosecution mostly focused on the fact that she did not have a PPD diagnosis but did have a GAD diagnosis. And defense mostly focused on all the meds she was on.

ETA: I think. I have a terrible memory!

[letsgetweird]

Feb 7, 2023 20:17:57 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Was psychosis mentioned today by prosecution or defense?

The prosecution said she spoke to her husband yesterday and told him she had psychosis and she was hearing voices. Her husband stated she had never heard voices before. The defense did not mention psychosis, I don't believe.

[maudefindlay]

Feb 7, 2023 21:53:36 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

Feb 7, 2023 20:17:57 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Was psychosis mentioned today by prosecution or defense?

The prosecution said she spoke to her husband yesterday and told him she had psychosis and she was hearing voices. Her husband stated she had never heard voices before. The defense did not mention psychosis, I don't believe.

Ok I read a few articles but of course didn't see everything. If she had a psychosis I guess I thought that would have been dx and stated for the case. Perhaps too early/testing still ongoing.

[letsgetweird]

Feb 7, 2023 21:59:35 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Feb 7, 2023 21:53:36 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

The prosecution said she spoke to her husband yesterday and told him she had psychosis and she was hearing voices. Her husband stated she had never heard voices before. The defense did not mention psychosis, I don't believe.

Ok I read a few articles but of course didn't see everything. If she had a psychosis I guess I thought that would have been dx and stated for the case. Perhaps too early/testing still ongoing.

I think the public had rushed to judgment and assumed she had PPP. I'm not saying she didn't but it does not seem she had a diagnosis. As the previous poster said, her doctor said she had no signs of PPD. I'm not sure what her actually diagnosis was, Lindsay wrote in her journal that she had a "touch" of PPA. She also was in a psychiatric hospital from Jan 1-5.

The prosecution is certainly trying to painting her out to be a cold blooded killer.

[AJL]

Feb 7, 2023 22:11:20 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

Feb 7, 2023 21:59:35 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Ok I read a few articles but of course didn't see everything. If she had a psychosis I guess I thought that would have been dx and stated for the case. Perhaps too early/testing still ongoing.

I think the public had rushed to judgment and assumed she had PPP. I'm not saying she didn't but it does not seem she had a diagnosis. As the previous poster said, her doctor said she had no signs of PPD. I'm not sure what her actually diagnosis was, Lindsay wrote in her journal that she had a "touch" of PPA. She also was in a psychiatric hospital from Jan 1-5.

The prosecution is certainly trying to painting her out to be a cold blooded killer.

I still think she was experiencing postpartum psychosis. Just because she didn't have signs of PPD doesn't mean she didn't have PPD. More than 50% of women with PPD aren't diagnosed. 

[gretchenindisguise]

It doesn't seem like a rush to judgement when it was reported early on that she was receiving extensive psychiatric care. Within the month before the incident she was inpatient and in intensive outpatient care, and prescribed numerous psychotropic medications.

Something was clearly going on. Maybe a rush to actual diagnosis, but not baseless given the age of her children.

We likely won't know actual answers for quite some time.

[Bad Dingo]

I'm confused about the change in tone now that more details are out. Were people assuming that the killing of her children would be some gentle, loving scene? She killed her babies and then tried to kill herself. It was horrible and violent and tragic.

[maudefindlay]

Feb 8, 2023 6:50:26 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I'm confused about the change in tone now that more details are out. Were people assuming that the killing of her children would be some gentle, loving scene? She killed her babies and then tried to kill herself. It was horrible and violent and tragic.

I don't know what I was expecting, I think most of my thoughts on it were concern for the mother and I just hadn't let myself think of the kids much. So, yeah for me it was worse probably than I had considered to hear the details.

[kath16]

Feb 8, 2023 6:50:26 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I'm confused about the change in tone now that more details are out. Were people assuming that the killing of her children would be some gentle, loving scene? She killed her babies and then tried to kill herself. It was horrible and violent and tragic.

i agree. the details are, obviously, horrific. 

i just don't think they change the PPD/psychosis/similar thought process. i know a wonderful, loving, caring mother who suffered psychosis after two of her three children were born. she, thankfully, was treated successfully by her loving husband and leads a beautiful life now several years later.

ETA: not treated "by" her husband. treated after her husband sought help and took her the hospital where she received in-patient treatment. my phrasing was weird, so just wnated to clarify.

[eddy]

Even understanding the concept of psychosis it can be really hard to read the calculated steps that were taken. Now knowing more it is really a wrestle in my brain of academically understanding something, and my emotions. Many things are like this. But with details you do actually have to sit in the knowing, which is so uncomfortable.

[konapoppy]

Gift link to nyt article: www.nytimes.com/2023/02/08/health/lindsay-clancy-child-murder-charges-massachusetts.html?unlocked_article_code=IPQWpV9romx-sRW9M7h9jUca4k-L1oSLlofLA7sDJmUePvN7gdVwY90r9v1HqkN2VFYPutzj6LHM2LersPrOxmpnwzkYph5NUbUJ9VdHb094jD78G8GeldsiO3xsqSqpgWrza95yul5Fb56tvsWmq0G2RxPBdp0LE6UuutRADvmPcTVEqjc9pr0-1z6UTf6RMVZU5gJPyIrOkQ7y9QLVsioIWbZCGlk-Fjq0NXnIwUBkdC6CgfdHpEQ-QXgx1t32mgaiF4T4UeKd6ypiDGhfGol62YlTr-4vyI7qpSsJb4v3BdBm3UXhdyh4b7Gx881aplxRlm0_1uusWl9uY0G4hMEtH4JwwJBBxaPqcb8N7U9Fdoj0mpHy6kYX&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 8, 2023 6:50:26 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I'm confused about the change in tone now that more details are out. Were people assuming that the killing of her children would be some gentle, loving scene? She killed her babies and then tried to kill herself. It was horrible and violent and tragic.

What shocked me more than I expected was the planning. Do I think that means she's guilty of first-degree murder? No. But I guess I assumed it was something more akin to the husband just randomly going out to pick up takeout and the mom making a snap decision at that moment to do the unthinkable. The part about calculating his drive between the store and the restaurant and the house was tough to read knowing what ultimately happened. Even if that's exactly what someone might do if they have psychosis doesn't make it any less shocking to read, IMO. 

ETA: Or just ditto eddy .

[Velar Fricative]

I'm also confused about her not actually being diagnosed with PPD. I assumed that any kind of anxiety, depression or psychosis within one year of delivery makes it "post-partum." Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding the sequence of events, especially with the NYT article above mentioning she left 5-day inpatient care in early January. 

[icedcoffee]

Feb 8, 2023 9:01:50 GMT -5 eddy said:

Even understanding the concept of psychosis it can be really hard to read the calculated steps that were taken. Now knowing more it is really a wrestle in my brain of academically understanding something, and my emotions. Many things are like this. But with details you do actually have to sit in the knowing, which is so uncomfortable.

Yes this...it was hard for me to learn just how many chances there were for her to stop.  But I admittedly know very little about psychosis.  Maybe she had it, maybe she didn't.  I guess the forensic psychologist will be the one to ultimately decide.  I'll be curious to hear his report.