Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (@ mentions)

[fryjack2]

Dec 20, 2023 14:35:57 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

fryjack2 - I didn't intend to be flippant & apologize if it came across that way. I just wanted to post a few updates I had seen. I know it's not enough, but I'm glad to see the US finally putting a bit of pressure on Israel and global sentiment seems like people understand that this has gone too far and Israel is losing support.

I didn’t think you were! I was just responding to the sad ridiculousness of it all, not anything directed at you

[fryjack2]

In case I have to say it again, condemning the events of Oct 7th should be happening by everyone everywhere.

As should what is now happening in Gaza, 2 months later. Bombing trapped people with nowhere to escape to and withholding aid and imports and food and bombing hospitals and places universally known as off limits and targeting journalist is not war. And attempts to justify it as such in 2023 with all the technology and military ability and intelligence capabilities Israel has are delusional.

Calling it what it is- an intentional racist genocide is not antisemitic. Its fact.

[fryjack2]

Anyone following South Africa's case against Israel for the genocide it is committing being presented at the ICJ? Israel is being tried under the Genocide Convention. Hearings started today.

www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/middleeast/south-africa-israel-genocide-icj-hague-day-one-intl/index.html

[wanderingback]

Jan 11, 2024 20:54:10 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Anyone following South Africa's case against Israel for the genocide it is committing being presented at the ICJ? Israel is being tried under the Genocide Convention. Hearings started today.

www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/middleeast/south-africa-israel-genocide-icj-hague-day-one-intl/index.html

Yes! Me and my partner have been following.

[sakoro]

Jan 11, 2024 20:54:10 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Anyone following South Africa's case against Israel for the genocide it is committing being presented at the ICJ? Israel is being tried under the Genocide Convention. Hearings started today.

www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/middleeast/south-africa-israel-genocide-icj-hague-day-one-intl/index.html

Yes, Iim following because I’m a dual citizen—my family moved to the US from SA in the 70s when I was a baby. Hopeful it will force the US evaluate / justify its support for Israel’s military actions against international law.

The Reagan administration tried to justify its support for the Apartheid government, labeling Mandela as a terrorist and ignoring protests/ public opinion throughout the 80s so there are some parallels.

[underwaterrhymes]

I’ve been following also, fryjack2.

[fryjack2]

I had dinner the other night with a bunch of women- some I know and some I don’t. One was talking about Gaza and said that people can’t believe what they see on social media because it’s manipulated and edited and photoshopped.

I didn’t know her but couldn’t stop myself from saying that some of what is on social media such as content Motaz and Plestia are posted is live and not edited. And how the content like what they post can be edited would be pretty tough to do.

And I said maybe the IDF should have edited their “proof video” of Hamas in a hospital to show more than a broken chair and computer in an MRI reading room because it was pisspoor “proof” of much of anything that justified hospital bombings or genocide.

[momof2ms]

I’ve been struggling to find local/ state activism groups. I know there have been tons of protests but i haven’t been able to identify the groups that are running them. I follow tons of instagram accounts and even a-couple Telegram groups but not much in the way of US actions like what to write to representatives. Anyone else with better luck?

[jane6672]

Jan 15, 2024 8:53:01 GMT -5 momof2ms said:

I’ve been struggling to find local/ state activism groups. I know there have been tons of protests but i haven’t been able to identify the groups that are running them. I follow tons of instagram accounts and even a-couple Telegram groups but not much in the way of US actions like what to write to representatives. Anyone else with better luck?

5 calls will look up your reps contact info and has a short script you can use. Then you log whether you were sent to voicemail, talked to a person, etc.
They also list which reps have already signed on in support of ceasefire.
5calls.org/issue/israel-palestine-gaza-war-hamas-ceasefire/

[momof2ms]

Jan 15, 2024 16:03:25 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

Jan 15, 2024 8:53:01 GMT -5 momof2ms said:

I’ve been struggling to find local/ state activism groups. I know there have been tons of protests but i haven’t been able to identify the groups that are running them. I follow tons of instagram accounts and even a-couple Telegram groups but not much in the way of US actions like what to write to representatives. Anyone else with better luck?

5 calls will look up your reps contact info and has a short script you can use. Then you log whether you were sent to voicemail, talked to a person, etc.
They also list which reps have already signed on in support of ceasefire.
5calls.org/issue/israel-palestine-gaza-war-hamas-ceasefire/

Awesome thank you!

[fryjack2]

Netanyahu says that there will not be a Palestinian state when this "conflict" is over and the Israel must rule everything west of Jordan for its "safety."

Yes, that's a fantastic plan (sarcasm). Continue to occupy and terrorize and restrict life of Palestinians. That won't cause even more aggression and resentment and conflict and deaths. But it will be a great way to continue to say that Palestinians are the ones who are aggressive and don't want peace because they aren't passively submitting to living under an illegal occupation. The world already thinks we are all terrorists. The number of times I've read that its impossible to tell who is Hamas and who isn't as a justification for bombing everything and murdering children is astounding.

I'm so angry and disheartened that the world is allowing this to continue. This being the genocide and the occupation and Netanyahu's war crimes.

www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/politics/netanyahu-biden-palestinian-state/index.html

[basilosaurus]

Jan 18, 2024 21:26:13 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Netanyahu says that there will not be a Palestinian state when this "conflict" is over and the Israel must rule everything west of Jordan for its "safety."

Yes, that's a fantastic plan (sarcasm). Continue to occupy and terrorize and restrict life of Palestinians. That won't cause even more aggression and resentment and conflict and deaths. But it will be a great way to continue to say that Palestinians are the ones who are aggressive and don't want peace because they aren't passively submitting to living under an illegal occupation. The world already thinks we are all terrorists. The number of times I've read that its impossible to tell who is Hamas and who isn't as a justification for bombing everything and murdering children is astounding.

I'm so angry and disheartened that the world is allowing this to continue. This being the genocide and the occupation and Netanyahu's war crimes.

www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/politics/netanyahu-biden-palestinian-state/index.html

I'd love to see him in the Hague. A girl can dream. I'll settle for disgraced and ousted from power. That seems a reasonable compromise.

[wawa]

It struck me today that the headlines I'm seeing just keep talking about this as if it's a "normal" regional conflict/war and not an ongoing war crime. Maybe it's a bubble thing, but I felt like the general tone was turning away from unconditional support for the actions of the israeli government last month, but that seems to have sputtered out and it just...keeps going.

[fryjack2]

Sharing a few things that aren't getting much media coverage:

Princeton President's State of the University address
president.princeton.edu/blogs/presidents-annual-state-university-letter-2024-excellence-inclusivity-and-free-speech

Columbia students sprayed with skunk spray at a peaceful pro Palestine protest, allegedly by former IOF members.

www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-ny-condemns-reported-spraying-of-foul-smelling-liquid-on-peaceful-protesters-at-columbia-demands-law-enforcement-action/

DC march for Palestine last weekend. This past weekend also had a huge march. 

www.npr.org/2024/01/13/1224641296/gaza-dc-march-ceasefire-israel-protest

And Netanyahu voicing an Israeli mission with the slogan that has gotten so many pro Palestinians doxxed, fired, called antisemitic, calling for violence, spewing hate, etc. in essentially the same way but using the words, "the State of Israel must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River." You know, from the river to the sea. 

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-21/ty-article/israel-based-news-outlet-incorrectly-translates-pms-words-leading-to-media-firestorm/0000018d-2bfa-daf5-a1bf-affa764b0000

Some backstory on "from the River to the Sea" and why it is not a Hamas phrase to many many many Palestinians. www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-sea-israel-gaza-palestinians.html

[fryjack2]

Journalist Motaz Azaiza evacuated from Gaza. His contribution to exposing the genocide going on is immeasurable. He has been targeted for the entire length of this atrocity and it reached a tipping point.
Now Plestia, Wael, and Motaz have been evacuated. Bissam is still there. I fear for her and am so grateful for all of them for their continued efforts to share with the world.

[dreamcrisp1]

Jan 23, 2024 8:36:08 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Journalist Motaz Azaiza evacuated from Gaza. His contribution to exposing the genocide going on is immeasurable. He has been targeted for the entire length of this atrocity and it reached a tipping point.
Now Plestia, Wael, and Motaz have been evacuated. Bissam is still there. I fear for her and am so grateful for all of them for their continued efforts to share with the world.

His video talking about leaving, you could see how much internal conflict he feels at leaving. His work to share the atrocities with the world has been so essential.

[momof2ms]

I’ve been following Bisan at wizard_bisan1 who is a teen (?) reporter in Gaza and Greg Stoker at greg.j.stoker who is former military and has helped me a lot for historical context and parsing current attacks context and significance. Both on instagram. Greg also has a friend at generationalnews who I just started following more recently, and has been additionally good and explaining current events here and there.

I’d love to discuss the recent protests at Bidens speeches. Wish the response was different.

[fryjack2]

The ICJ won’t throw out the case and says there is sufficient evidence. Says that Israel must abide by the Genocide Convention immediately. But doesn’t call for a ceasefire.

I’m not sure what to feel. Happy that the case wasn’t thrown point happy that the ICJ recognizes the illegal actions of Israel. Disappointed that a ceasefire wasn’t ordered.

And still a lot hopeless as historically no one actually holds Israel accountable and the US and Britain, two of the biggest world powers are aiding its genocide so sure won’t now either.

www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-26-24/index.html

Edited to add- Netanyahu remains a monster. He’s being called out by more and more high ranking officials in Israel.

And thank you, thank you, thank you over and over to South Africa.

[dreamcrisp1]

This is an article from a Dutch news source: nltimes.nl/2024/01/26/icj-tells-israel-prevent-civilian-deaths-gaza-stops-short-ordering-ceasefire

I wish they ordered a ceasefire. But maybe, just maybe, having the ICJ voice that there is clearly a genocide going on here will bring some sort of action. Ugh. If only.

[momof2ms]

I’m reading that a “ceasefire“ would not be appropriate to ask of them in this case anyways, because it’s not two nation’s armies, fighting each other. Sounds like a bunch of semantics to me, but on the one hand, I understand that their lengthy response was more to be strategic and get to the bottom of their actions. I totally understand though it doesn’t feel that way from the people on the ground.

I also read that this sets up any further actions after that readout to be considered for larger action in the future. I’m not saying this well but my point is they felt like they were being proactive and strategic and how they went about things.

I’m loving @hazami on Instagram right now. Watching her and the protest camp out outside Blinken’s house!

[AJL]

Like just about everyone on this board and those I know IRL, I want this war to end. And I have serious qualms of what a ceasefire would mean if Israel is compelled to initiate one. Every time I've gotten into a discussion with someone who is adamant that a ceasefire happen immediately, my next question is "And then what?" 

What happens when Israel stops bombing Gaza? Does Hamas lay down their weapons too and Netanyahu and the leader of Hamas have a diplomatic discussion on a solution to peaceably live with one another? Neither one seems interested in that idea. Netanyahu is hell bent on obliterating Gaza and Hamas is fully committed taking complete possession of the land Israel inhabits. 

Do not misunderstand me: I want this war to end. 100%. And I also fear what will happen if a ceasefire is established and one of the parties breaks that ceasefire (because it happened previously). If that ceasefire is broken by Hamas, I think Netanyahu will release all the power he has available to him. If that happens, I think we can see Iran engage Israel in a war to back Hamas. We'll see Palestinians be completely obliterated. We'll see Israelis dying by the 1000s. We'll see the U.S. militarily engage in a war on the ground defending Israel. I see the same thing happening if Israel breaks the ceasefire. I'm having a very "War Games" moment about this entire situation. 

Obviously I don't have a crystal ball and I can't tell the future. I want to be wrong. I HOPE I am completely wrong. 

[turkturkleton]

Jan 27, 2024 17:55:34 GMT -5 AJL said:

Like just about everyone on this board and those I know IRL, I want this war to end. And I have serious qualms of what a ceasefire would mean if Israel is compelled to initiate one. Every time I've gotten into a discussion with someone who is adamant that a ceasefire happen immediately, my next question is "And then what?" 

What happens when Israel stops bombing Gaza? Does Hamas lay down their weapons too and Netanyahu and the leader of Hamas have a diplomatic discussion on a solution to peaceably live with one another? Neither one seems interested in that idea. Netanyahu is hell bent on obliterating Gaza and Hamas is fully committed taking complete possession of the land Israel inhabits. 

Do not misunderstand me: I want this war to end. 100%. And I also fear what will happen if a ceasefire is established and one of the parties breaks that ceasefire (because it happened previously). If that ceasefire is broken by Hamas, I think Netanyahu will release all the power he has available to him. If that happens, I think we can see Iran engage Israel in a war to back Hamas. We'll see Palestinians be completely obliterated. We'll see Israelis dying by the 1000s. We'll see the U.S. militarily engage in a war on the ground defending Israel. I see the same thing happening if Israel breaks the ceasefire. I'm having a very "War Games" moment about this entire situation. 

Obviously I don't have a crystal ball and I can't tell the future. I want to be wrong. I HOPE I am completely wrong. 

It's not a war though, and it's disgusting and infuriating that it's still being referred to as such. I understand the media is pursuing that narrative, but anyone who's been in this thread should know by now how inaccurate and insulting it is to call it that.

It's a concentrated genocide. It's an occupied territory being purposely destroyed by its occupiers so they can gain control of the land. It's an ethnic cleansing. Call it that.

Not knowing what might happen next is not even remotely a good reason to let it continue.

[AJL]

Jan 27, 2024 20:35:45 GMT -5 turkturkleton said:

Jan 27, 2024 17:55:34 GMT -5 AJL said:

Like just about everyone on this board and those I know IRL, I want this war to end. And I have serious qualms of what a ceasefire would mean if Israel is compelled to initiate one. Every time I've gotten into a discussion with someone who is adamant that a ceasefire happen immediately, my next question is "And then what?" 

What happens when Israel stops bombing Gaza? Does Hamas lay down their weapons too and Netanyahu and the leader of Hamas have a diplomatic discussion on a solution to peaceably live with one another? Neither one seems interested in that idea. Netanyahu is hell bent on obliterating Gaza and Hamas is fully committed taking complete possession of the land Israel inhabits. 

Do not misunderstand me: I want this war to end. 100%. And I also fear what will happen if a ceasefire is established and one of the parties breaks that ceasefire (because it happened previously). If that ceasefire is broken by Hamas, I think Netanyahu will release all the power he has available to him. If that happens, I think we can see Iran engage Israel in a war to back Hamas. We'll see Palestinians be completely obliterated. We'll see Israelis dying by the 1000s. We'll see the U.S. militarily engage in a war on the ground defending Israel. I see the same thing happening if Israel breaks the ceasefire. I'm having a very "War Games" moment about this entire situation. 

Obviously I don't have a crystal ball and I can't tell the future. I want to be wrong. I HOPE I am completely wrong. 

It's not a war though, and it's disgusting and infuriating that it's still being referred to as such. I understand the media is pursuing that narrative, but anyone who's been in this thread should know by now how inaccurate and insulting it is to call it that.

It's a concentrated genocide. It's an occupied territory being purposely destroyed by its occupiers so they can gain control of the land. It's an ethnic cleansing. Call it that.

Not knowing what might happen next is not even remotely a good reason to let it continue.

I will not call it that. It is a war that was initiated by Hamas.

But regardless, Israel has a distinct and disproportionate advantage over any group fighting for Palestinian liberation. But my questions still remain. I'm not going to play in the semantics pool. We won't agree. That's fine. I'm concerned about what happens once a ceasefire is declared. What is the plan? Hamas isn't a small group of rebels throwing rocks and bottles at an advancing army. Don't underplay that they are very much belligerents in this hostility. 

And I never advocated for continuing the war. I said I want to know if any powers that be have thought about and are willing to share what the fuck happens next. Don't insult my reasonable question with your emotions. 

[turkturkleton]

Jan 27, 2024 20:54:06 GMT -5 AJL said:

Jan 27, 2024 20:35:45 GMT -5 turkturkleton said:

It's not a war though, and it's disgusting and infuriating that it's still being referred to as such. I understand the media is pursuing that narrative, but anyone who's been in this thread should know by now how inaccurate and insulting it is to call it that.

It's a concentrated genocide. It's an occupied territory being purposely destroyed by its occupiers so they can gain control of the land. It's an ethnic cleansing. Call it that.

Not knowing what might happen next is not even remotely a good reason to let it continue.

I will not call it that. It is a war that was initiated by Hamas.

But regardless, Israel has a distinct and disproportionate advantage over any group fighting for Palestinian liberation. But my questions still remain. I'm not going to play in the semantics pool. We won't agree. That's fine. I'm concerned about what happens once a ceasefire is declared. What is the plan? Hamas isn't a small group of rebels throwing rocks and bottles at an advancing army. Don't underplay that they are very much belligerents in this hostility. 

And I never advocated for continuing the war. I said I want to know if any powers that be have thought about and are willing to share what the fuck happens next. Don't insult my reasonable question with your emotions. 

It's not just semantics. Words matter. They shape the narrative, they change how people see the world and the things that happen in it. And the "war" narrative is dishonest. There are not two equal sides here. I don't believe I'm underplaying anything or ignoring the realities of a terrorist organisation by thinking that the possibility of retaliation does not justify what's happening.

I see that you're still coming into this thread while being unwilling to have an intellectually honest discussion. I understand why you have the bias you do, but if you're not able to see beyond it, I don't think it's my emotions that are hindering a discussion.

I can't tell the future either, so I hope you find the answers you're looking for.

[momof2ms]

To answer the question of what happens after a ceasefire, the order suggested has been: ceasefire, lift the siege (allowing for humanitarian aid), then end the occupation. Currently, they allow an extremely low amount of food and aid, and as people get close enough to retrieve either, the IDF opens fire upon the entire population (kids, women, men, babies)

*I can share video of these if anybody wants them. I’m assuming this would have to be privately shared.

[momof2ms]

Evidence is also mounting that Israel cannot afford much more military expense, and is already in or rapidly approaching a war-time economy. Between Israel citizens leaving and the vast amount of jobs Palestines did that now they have to import workers from (??) to accomplish, they are not in a great situation.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2024/1/27/has-the-war-on-gaza-hurt-israels-economy

[fryjack2]

Jan 28, 2024 12:31:57 GMT -5 momof2ms said:

To answer the question of what happens after a ceasefire, the order suggested has been: ceasefire, lift the siege (allowing for humanitarian aid), then end the occupation. Currently, they allow an extremely low amount of food and aid, and as people get close enough to retrieve either, the IDF opens fire upon the entire population (kids, women, men, babies)

*I can share video of these if anybody wants them. I’m assuming this would have to be privately shared.

Parts of what's happening really are not rocket science.  Continuing to occupy people will NEVER lead to peace and will only continue to produce conflict fighting for freedom and deaths trying to achieve that.  This is not a new concept in history.

Here's a question. Since a ceasefire is so unimaginable for so many.  Once Israel is done killing every person being trapped in Gaza, including all the supposed secret Hamas "embedded" in the general population, will they allow all the Palestinians in the diaspora who were forced out to come back and live in Gaza?  Since we aren't Hamas? To rebuilt it without Israel controlling the land, the air, the sea, imports, exports, water, electricity, building permits. Freedom in our own land? 

Of course not.  Israel is already planning residential developments and how they will populate Gaza and claim the land as theirs. They have no interest in sparing innocent Palestinian lives.  It doesn't allow for their plans of the entire region being Israel only.  From the river to the sea. 

End the occupation.  Free Palestine.  Ceasefire.  Release the hostage. Save the children. Save the innocent. Hold countries and their leaders accountable to international law.  Intervene in genocides.  Stop funding genocides and annihilation of a people.  Be an ally to humanity, not a country.  

[pixy0stix]

Hamas won't be defeated until Israel works to help the Palestinian citizens.

We say that with any terror group. You work to give the citizens what they need and the terrorists lose power.

We saw a clear example of that after WWII and correcting the mistake of WWI in punishing citizens with the tax of war.

[neverfstop]

Jan 28, 2024 19:38:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Hamas won't be defeated until Israel works to help the Palestinian citizens.

We say that with any terror group. You work to give the citizens what they need and the terrorists lose power.

We saw a clear example of that after WWII and correcting the mistake of WWI in punishing citizens with the tax of war.

Agreed. I won't pretend to fully understand the situation in Gaza, but we have to have some type of alternate government beside Hamas that can provide basic services and take care of the people there .  I keep seeing people talk about putting the Palestinian Authority back in control & I know there will be many reactions, but it can't be Hamas or Israel or an international coalition. 

[fryjack2]

It does not matter who is in power if Palestinians remain under Israeli occupation and apartheid.

Israel will never willingly stop occupying Palestine or imposing an apartheid state. And the international world seems incapable of forcing them to.

All the talk and ideas are pointless without recognizing those very real factors.