Trump hush money trial

[kittywalker]

This whole case is a mess. I really don't think this makes Trump look bad to his voters, it's probably helping him rather than hurting. This case looks ridiculous for the prosecution and even worse for the judge. If Trump is convicted (and I honestly don't think they've established the elements of the crime), it will be overturned in a heartbeat.

FWIW, this is what I'm seeing/feeling based on listening to CNN and FOX every night. I toggle back and forth and listen to both equally.

[neverfstop]

@@

Damn- that was a smackdown. I feel like I have this exact conversation with my daughter all the time...

“I would like to discuss proper decorum in my courtroom,” Merchan said. “So when there is a witness on the stand, if you don’t like my ruling, you don’t say ‘jeez,’ okay? And then don’t say ‘strike it,’ because I am the only one who can strike testimony in the courtroom.”

“If you don’t like my rulings, then you don’t give me side-eye and you don’t roll your eyes,” Merchan continued.

Costello then gave him a look the judge didn’t like after trying to argue about the rulings.

“Are you staring me down right now?” Merchan demanded to know. Costello didn't answer.

[ny96]

May 20, 2024 16:06:17 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

This whole case is a mess. I really don't think this makes Trump look bad to his voters, it's probably helping him rather than hurting. This case looks ridiculous for the prosecution and even worse for the judge. If Trump is convicted (and I honestly don't think they've established the elements of the crime), it will be overturned in a heartbeat.

FWIW, this is what I'm seeing/feeling based on listening to CNN and FOX every night. I toggle back and forth and listen to both equally.

Huh? What trial are you talking about? This trial does not look bad for the prosecution even if they have a problem witness. Who takes Fox News or even most reports on CNN seriously?

[sonrisa]

May 20, 2024 16:06:17 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

I really don't think this makes Trump look bad to his voters
.

You may be right. And that reflects very poorly on those voters and their expectations from a President.

[kittywalker]

May 20, 2024 16:35:25 GMT -5 ny96 said:

May 20, 2024 16:06:17 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

This whole case is a mess. I really don't think this makes Trump look bad to his voters, it's probably helping him rather than hurting. This case looks ridiculous for the prosecution and even worse for the judge. If Trump is convicted (and I honestly don't think they've established the elements of the crime), it will be overturned in a heartbeat.

FWIW, this is what I'm seeing/feeling based on listening to CNN and FOX every night. I toggle back and forth and listen to both equally.

Huh? What trial are you talking about? This trial does not look bad for the prosecution even if they have a problem witness. Who takes Fox News or even most reports on CNN seriously?

I disagree. Their case rests on the testimony of a convicted perjurer who admitted to theft, today. It’s not just a problem witness, it’s the only witness to the crime as far as I can tell. 

I don’t find any news sources to be truly credible, which is why I listen to many.

[pixy0stix]

May 20, 2024 17:42:21 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

May 20, 2024 16:35:25 GMT -5 ny96 said:

Huh? What trial are you talking about? This trial does not look bad for the prosecution even if they have a problem witness. Who takes Fox News or even most reports on CNN seriously?

I disagree. Their case rests on the testimony of a convicted perjurer who admitted to theft, today. It’s not just a problem witness, it’s the only witness to the crime as far as I can tell. 

I don’t find any news sources to be truly credible, which is why I listen to many.

Cohen (and Daniels) were certainly the two witnesses that made the most news. However, there's the publisher who bought the story, accountants handling the books, etc. who all testified that Trump knew about the payment and how the day to day operation of the money was handled (personally overseen by Trump). Cohen was always going to be a mess, and the prosecution built a case that could have been presented without him.

[kittywalker]

May 20, 2024 17:50:39 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

May 20, 2024 17:42:21 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

I disagree. Their case rests on the testimony of a convicted perjurer who admitted to theft, today. It’s not just a problem witness, it’s the only witness to the crime as far as I can tell. 

I don’t find any news sources to be truly credible, which is why I listen to many.

Cohen (and Daniels) were certainly the two witnesses that made the most news. However, there's the publisher who bought the story, accountants handling the books, etc. who all testified that Trump knew about the payment and how the day to day operation of the money was handled (personally overseen by Trump). Cohen was always going to be a mess, and the prosecution built a case that could have been presented without him.

I didn’t hear any direct evidence linking Trump to the recording of the payment in the ledger as a legal expense. They have to prove Trump intentionally misrecorded the payment as a legal expense and not campaign expense in an effort to influence the election. There’s no dispute that Trump knew about the payment, but that’s not the issue. Maybe I missed something but I don’t think so. All we have is opinion that Trump must have known.

[AAM2012]

May 20, 2024 17:56:27 GMT -5 kittywalker said:

May 20, 2024 17:50:39 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Cohen (and Daniels) were certainly the two witnesses that made the most news. However, there's the publisher who bought the story, accountants handling the books, etc. who all testified that Trump knew about the payment and how the day to day operation of the money was handled (personally overseen by Trump). Cohen was always going to be a mess, and the prosecution built a case that could have been presented without him.

I didn’t hear any direct evidence linking Trump to the recording of the payment in the ledger as a legal expense. They have to prove Trump intentionally misrecorded the payment as a legal expense and not campaign expense in an effort to influence the election. There’s no dispute that Trump knew about the payment, but that’s not the issue. Maybe I missed something but I don’t think so. All we have is opinion that Trump must have known.

Err, that’s not at all what prosecutors need to prove to jurors or what jurors need to decide on in this case…

[pixy0stix]

The Defense is expected to rest their case today.

[pixy0stix]

Trump will not testify, the Defense has rested. Jury deliberations slated for next week.

[neverfstop]

this is related ot the other Trump case ( classified docs) but I'll stick it here..

Florida hearing in Trump classified documents case devolves into shouting match
www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/politics/trump-documents-case-judge-cannon-hearing/index.html

Trump's attorneys found classified docs in his bedroom months after raid
www.axios.com/2024/05/21/trumps-classified-documents-bedroom-mar-a-lago

[livinitup]

thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4685434-jack-smith-seeks-gag-order-in-classified-docs-case-after-trump-locked-loaded-claim/mlite/?nxs-test=mlite

On Friday, Jack Smith requested the Florida document case judge, Aileen Cannon, (who has indefinitely postponed the case) to extend her gag order to include preventing Trump from defaming law enforcement & the FBI. Trump has been saying that Biden ordered the FBI to shoot him. Which is a dangerous mischaracterization of normal law enforcement protocols when enforcing a warrant.

Some people are calling it a Master Class by Jack Smith on how to outmaneuver Trump and box in Cannon. It forces Judge Cannon to choose sides - either Trump and his naked self interest or law enforcement and the safety all who serve.

[icedcoffee]

Closing arguments! I’m so excited!

[icedcoffee]

3 of his kids are there today but still no Ivanka.

[pixy0stix]

Politico did a breakdown of several different scenarios as to what might happen - www.politico.com/news/2024/05/27/trump-trial-possible-outcomes-00160042

[erbear]

I feel certain that this will amount to…absolutely nothing. Yet again. He will get away with it.

I hope I’m wrong.

[noodleoo]

Jury deliberations start today. Ugh... I'm scared they are going to acquit him. Have there been any predictions about how long it may take for them to reach a verdict?

[icedcoffee]

Praying these jurors make the right decision!

[icedcoffee]

Part of me hopes they make a quick decision but the other part of me realizes Trump needs to sit there while they deliberate and wouldn't mind him wasting a few days there. LOL

[DotAndBuzz]

May 29, 2024 8:40:56 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Jury deliberations start today. Ugh... I'm scared they are going to acquit him. Have there been any predictions about how long it may take for them to reach a verdict?

Just saw someone on MSNBC say that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. There are 34 counts they have to decide. It can be some not guilty, some guilty. Even ONE guilty is still a felony conviction. 

[ellipses84]

May 29, 2024 10:35:56 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Part of me hopes they make a quick decision but the other part of me realizes Trump needs to sit there while they deliberate and wouldn't mind him wasting a few days there. LOL

I think it’s going to take a few days for them to get through all 34 counts.

[ellipses84]

Per CNN:
The jurors sent two notes today: one requesting to re-hear the judge's jury instructions and one asking to be read back some testimony from witnesses Michael Cohen and David Pecker.

Based on all the info during jury selection, I expect the jury will be very analytical and thorough. They have over 4 weeks of testimony and evidence to consider!

[neverfstop]

It's the same charge "falsifying business records" but for different documents.....seems like if they find him guilty/NG on one specific piece of paper/check/voucher, then it would be similar for all 34 charges.
www.yahoo.com/news/heres-a-list-of-the-34-charges-donald-trump-faces-in-his-hush-money-trial-120050092.html

I know a hung jury is a possibility, but is it possible to be guilty on 10, not guilty on 20, and hung on 4? Or guilty on 30 and hung on 4?

[mrsslocombe]

May 29, 2024 17:06:48 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It's the same charge "falsifying business records" but for different documents.....seems like if they find him guilty/NG on one specific piece of paper/check/voucher, then it would be similar for all 34 charges.
www.yahoo.com/news/heres-a-list-of-the-34-charges-donald-trump-faces-in-his-hush-money-trial-120050092.html

I know a hung jury is a possibility, but is it possible to be guilty on 10, not guilty on 20, and hung on 4? Or guilty on 30 and hung on 4?

The first 10 counts involve checks that his son signed, not Orange Foolius. So it's possible they could find him not guilty on the first 10 since he wasn't the one signing. The other 24 checks he did sign.

Yes you can have a combo of all three-some could be guilty, some not guilty, some hung. The judge would probably send them back 1-2 times to try to reach a verdict on the hung charges. But he can decide to just accept that decision. 

[pixy0stix]

Fun little article in Politico about the behind the scenes for reporters - www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/29/reporters-covering-trump-trial-lessons-00159750

[underwaterrhymes]

They’ve reached a verdict!

[underwaterrhymes]

(Holy shit, my heart is pounding.)

[beetea]

May 30, 2024 15:43:20 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

(Holy shit, my heart is pounding.)

Same. Regretting that iced coffee I pounded 30 minutes ago.

[curbsideprophet]

I am nervous.

[icedcoffee]

Omg this is terrible timing for me but I can’t turn it off!! Let’s go jurors! You’ve got this!