A thread for those of us separated/divorced

[sugarbear1]

Travel sports is a hot topic in my divorce. Our decree was simple (and we generally get along) and just states that we split all costs 50/50. I tend to travel more with DS though as I love the tournaments and my ex is ... not fun. He would never stay in the team hotel, for example. We finally agreed that we split airfare for DS but otherwise all expenses for the weekend are on the custodial parent (and if the other parent wants to also go, that's on them). It's not perfect but it is simple. In your case, I think I'd offer to pay half for the Cape tournament since otherwise you'd be taking her anyway.

[starburst604]

Aug 9, 2024 7:35:56 GMT -5 bcv513 said:

starburst604 , I would try to have that spelled out in as much detail as possible. Our agreement says that extracurriculars are split 50/50 "as long as both parties are in agreement." That last line is just stupid and XH has used it to weasel out of lots of things. We went to a competition in Florida for C's cheer team. He came, stayed in a different hotel 45 minutes away, and contributed nothing. I paid for C's plane ticket, the room in the required hotel, all meals, etc. Then he had the nerve to ask me for half of the money we got from the league fundraising!

I think ours says that too about being in agreement, which we generally are when it comes to her sports stuff. He lives for this shit. I just don't know how it all should work with paying for stuff since we can't control which parent's weekend these fall on and if they tend to heavily fall more on one parent than the other it isn't really fair if they have to pay for all the lodging I guess. But I KNOW he's going to complain about us having to spend for 2 rooms. Oh well dude, should've thought about that before you fucked up our family! 

[jlt19]

Aug 9, 2024 8:40:16 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 9, 2024 7:35:56 GMT -5 bcv513 said:

starburst604 , I would try to have that spelled out in as much detail as possible. Our agreement says that extracurriculars are split 50/50 "as long as both parties are in agreement." That last line is just stupid and XH has used it to weasel out of lots of things. We went to a competition in Florida for C's cheer team. He came, stayed in a different hotel 45 minutes away, and contributed nothing. I paid for C's plane ticket, the room in the required hotel, all meals, etc. Then he had the nerve to ask me for half of the money we got from the league fundraising!

I think ours says that too about being in agreement, which we generally are when it comes to her sports stuff. He lives for this shit. I just don't know how it all should work with paying for stuff since we can't control which parent's weekend these fall on and if they tend to heavily fall more on one parent than the other it isn't really fair if they have to pay for all the lodging I guess. But I KNOW he's going to complain about us having to spend for 2 rooms. Oh well dude, should've thought about that before you fucked up our family! 

We’ve had this happen three times since we split and overall it’s not been a problem.
Trip #1 was just a few months after the separation and the hotel was a Marriott so I was nice and used CC points to book him a room. It was his weekend, but we all went, so DS stayed with him and DD stayed with me.

Trip #2 was in June and my weekend. I fully paid for the hotel. He came but since his sister lived 1 hour away, he stayed with her. I did the “group” things with the team/families. But on Sunday there was a 5 hour gap between games and I told him to go to lunch with the team and DD and I did our own thing.

Trip #3 was in July and his weekend. He booked the room with the team and I was originally going to go to a nearby hotel and just go to the games. For unrelated reasons I didn’t go, which was probably for the best anyway (out of sight, out of mind).

The only thing we’ve split costs on are the tournament fees. I would never drive together, stay in the same room together, or make my kid stay somewhere away from his team. At the moment it’s best for us not to be together for the “group” things (dinner/lobby/pool hanging), so those things, IMO, are the ones to defer to whoever’s weekend it is.

But it’s a non issue for us now because our team of 7 years disbanded a few weeks ago 😢 so I won’t care to hang with others anyway if/when we find a new team. So I’m actively looking for a good fit with minimal travel anyway.

[starburst604]

Aug 9, 2024 10:45:01 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Aug 9, 2024 8:40:16 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

I think ours says that too about being in agreement, which we generally are when it comes to her sports stuff. He lives for this shit. I just don't know how it all should work with paying for stuff since we can't control which parent's weekend these fall on and if they tend to heavily fall more on one parent than the other it isn't really fair if they have to pay for all the lodging I guess. But I KNOW he's going to complain about us having to spend for 2 rooms. Oh well dude, should've thought about that before you fucked up our family! 

We’ve had this happen three times since we split and overall it’s not been a problem.
Trip #1 was just a few months after the separation and the hotel was a Marriott so I was nice and used CC points to book him a room. It was his weekend, but we all went, so DS stayed with him and DD stayed with me.

Trip #2 was in June and my weekend. I fully paid for the hotel. He came but since his sister lived 1 hour away, he stayed with her. I did the “group” things with the team/families. But on Sunday there was a 5 hour gap between games and I told him to go to lunch with the team and DD and I did our own thing.

Trip #3 was in July and his weekend. He booked the room with the team and I was originally going to go to a nearby hotel and just go to the games. For unrelated reasons I didn’t go, which was probably for the best anyway (out of sight, out of mind).

The only thing we’ve split costs on are the tournament fees. I would never drive together, stay in the same room together, or make my kid stay somewhere away from his team. At the moment it’s best for us not to be together for the “group” things (dinner/lobby/pool hanging), so those things, IMO, are the ones to defer to whoever’s weekend it is.

But it’s a non issue for us now because our team of 7 years disbanded a few weeks ago 😢 so I won’t care to hang with others anyway if/when we find a new team. So I’m actively looking for a good fit with minimal travel anyway.

Ok I like that idea! That's along the lines of my thinking, that whichever parent's weekend it is would be the primary parent who does the group things and the other is just kind of a spectator at the games. Of course, he won't like that and will just think we can do things like we did before. He doesn't understand that I DON'T want to be around him a second more than absolutely necessary and it's like he's never seen divorced families before - the majority do NOT hang out with each other. 

[amandakisser]

Something must be in the water, because XH is getting abusive to me via text as well. This is like the fifth cycle of this since the divorce, and I am so, so tired.

For any of you who use a co-parenting app, which one do you have? I'll reach out to my lawyer as well, but I don't even know where to start in looking at one.

[jlt19]

Aug 9, 2024 10:50:56 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 9, 2024 10:45:01 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

We’ve had this happen three times since we split and overall it’s not been a problem.
Trip #1 was just a few months after the separation and the hotel was a Marriott so I was nice and used CC points to book him a room. It was his weekend, but we all went, so DS stayed with him and DD stayed with me.

Trip #2 was in June and my weekend. I fully paid for the hotel. He came but since his sister lived 1 hour away, he stayed with her. I did the “group” things with the team/families. But on Sunday there was a 5 hour gap between games and I told him to go to lunch with the team and DD and I did our own thing.

Trip #3 was in July and his weekend. He booked the room with the team and I was originally going to go to a nearby hotel and just go to the games. For unrelated reasons I didn’t go, which was probably for the best anyway (out of sight, out of mind).

The only thing we’ve split costs on are the tournament fees. I would never drive together, stay in the same room together, or make my kid stay somewhere away from his team. At the moment it’s best for us not to be together for the “group” things (dinner/lobby/pool hanging), so those things, IMO, are the ones to defer to whoever’s weekend it is.

But it’s a non issue for us now because our team of 7 years disbanded a few weeks ago 😢 so I won’t care to hang with others anyway if/when we find a new team. So I’m actively looking for a good fit with minimal travel anyway.

Ok I like that idea! That's along the lines of my thinking, that whichever parent's weekend it is would be the primary parent who does the group things and the other is just kind of a spectator at the games. Of course, he won't like that and will just think we can do things like we did before. He doesn't understand that I DON'T want to be around him a second more than absolutely necessary and it's like he's never seen divorced families before - the majority do NOT hang out with each other. 

I feel like in a few years, I’d be totally fine in a large setting like that 10-20 adults). But, the dynamic of that team was mostly men separated from the women, lol. Probably because 1/2 of the dads were coaches and the moms were used to hanging on the sidelines together anyway.

It’s going to be SUPER weird to go to a new team where we’ll both be in the stands (he did GameChanger in the dugout) with strangers. I may make DD start going to games again!

[starburst604]

Aug 9, 2024 11:15:13 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Aug 9, 2024 10:50:56 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Ok I like that idea! That's along the lines of my thinking, that whichever parent's weekend it is would be the primary parent who does the group things and the other is just kind of a spectator at the games. Of course, he won't like that and will just think we can do things like we did before. He doesn't understand that I DON'T want to be around him a second more than absolutely necessary and it's like he's never seen divorced families before - the majority do NOT hang out with each other. 

I feel like in a few years, I’d be totally fine in a large setting like that 10-20 adults). But, the dynamic of that team was mostly men separated from the women, lol. Probably because 1/2 of the dads were coaches and the moms were used to hanging on the sidelines together anyway.

It’s going to be SUPER weird to go to a new team where we’ll both be in the stands (he did GameChanger in the dugout) with strangers. I may make DD start going to games again!

Yea the dynamic has been similar with the men and women dividing up, especially with the hockey group. For a while I didn't even know which belonged with which lol. 

[starburst604]

Aug 9, 2024 11:07:05 GMT -5 amandakisser said:

Something must be in the water, because XH is getting abusive to me via text as well. This is like the fifth cycle of this since the divorce, and I am so, so tired.

For any of you who use a co-parenting app, which one do you have? I'll reach out to my lawyer as well, but I don't even know where to start in looking at one.

Ugh I'm sorry to hear that. Our Family Wizard is what our state uses. 

[sent]

I've been silent for a few weeks as we were busy with summer and tomorrow we leave on our trip (more on that below). We have discussed going to counseling but I'm going to have us visit the mediator too to get my ducks in a row.

I saw this quote on a reel and copied it down. I've used these 2 lines so many times in the past few weeks when he says "this is stupid" to anything that I suggest or plan. This quote has been very helpful to process why I'm stuck with this extremely disagreeable person and in this giant mess.

“Being in a relationship is about solving problems together. Problems you would not have if you were single.”

[sent]

As far as the trip, I have always been the efficient packer. We will be gone for 15 nights so I told everyone that we would do laundry at least once on the trip so it wasn't necessary to pack 15 days worth of clothes. Since we are flying, I also have to double-check the luggage packed by the kids to make sure they're not trying to pack a banjo or some giant oversized eyeshadow palette. This time, it was a breeze to go through DS and DD's suitcases + backpacks. I whittled out a few things and repacked some items, but overall they both did pretty good.

Then I got to the spouse. First he insisted I didn't need to check, he had packed everything very well. We've flown enough times to know the typical carry on allowance for airlines is "1 roller board + 1 thing under the seat in front of you." This time he says "we're flying business so you're allowed 3." I ask him to show me the receipts of where he read that, nothing. I ask him what he will do if anyone at the airline says he can only bring 2 and he is shocked that anyone from the airline would stop him. If they do stop him, he presumes it would only happen while trying to board the plane and not at any point before that. In that case, he will gate check the 3rd item to make sure he doesn't have to wait for it at baggage claim. This is a moot point because I am going to be checking one bag so we'll be at baggage claim anyways. Bag #1 is an overstuffed messenger bag he is using for his laptop. Let's skip this bag for now.

Bag #2 is a designer brand name leather weekender style bag. I try to pick it up and it is ridiculously HEAVY. Bag #3 is a carryon sized suitcase that is hard sided and the smaller sized kind, also a brand name. I've told him in the past this particular suitcase is terrible for packing efficiently but I always forget about this until it's like today, the night before the trip. It's also a major PITA to close this suitcase and requires someone to sit on it. I opened the 2 bags. Inside there are 7 pairs of shoes, 10 pairs of long pants, 2 swimming trunks + tank tops, and a large number of shorts and shirts (I had the kids stop counting at this point). He has no plans to join in the laundry stop on this trip. Nearly all of this clothing + shoes is expensive stuff, not just things you pick up at Target or even Macys. Like any normal person does not need this amount of clothing for 15 nights; you can re-wear a few pairs of pants and shorts and take a few less pairs of shoes. He insists that he likes to look fashionable, he bought these things for the trip, our vacation destination is THE place to wear this type of stuff, etc. I manage to get him to remove like 6 articles of clothing. I repack everything to make Bag #2 lighter. Bag #3 is still a PITA to close. He mentions he still has his old carryon suitcase which is slightly larger, much easier to pack, and would really help in this moment. But he refuses to swap over to that suitcase because BRAND NAME SUITCASE. He won't pack a larger suitcase that you have to check because we have a train transfer that is going to cut it close so we can't check luggage on that trip or else we will miss the transfer. OK, but then common sense says you PACK LESS ITEMS.

I really really hope the agents at the checkin before security give him grief for trying to bring 3 carryons and force him to regular bag check the suitcase.

TL;DR - It's like living with Donald Trump except less famous and more poor. And no convictions or lawsuits, yet, but that's only because he's too poor to be involved in anything financially complicated and hasn't gotten caught breaking the law. He did get a ticket recently for running a red light while the kids were in the car. I'm glad. I hope he gets more.

[deadwing]

sent,that is a lot (literally and figuratively). I hope you are able. To enjoy your vacation.

[starburst604]

sent my STBX is a lot like that, with believing the rules don’t apply to him, ever. Release yourself from having to make sure he’s following the rules even if there’s added expense and hassle, because this hassle on the front end sounds unbearable. I hope you’re able to enjoy your vacation!

[wanderingback]

Aug 10, 2024 6:13:07 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

sent my STBX is a lot like that, with believing the rules don’t apply to him, ever. Release yourself from having to make sure he’s following the rules even if there’s added expense and hassle, because this hassle on the front end sounds unbearable. I hope you’re able to enjoy your vacation!

100% this.
sent are you in individual therapy? If so, I think you should definitely discuss and process why you had to go through his bag and repack and how you can handle situations like that going forward until you divorce. There is no need to create unnecessary stress or irritation for yourself.

[TR]

Aug 10, 2024 7:07:27 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Aug 10, 2024 6:13:07 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

sent my STBX is a lot like that, with believing the rules don’t apply to him, ever. Release yourself from having to make sure he’s following the rules even if there’s added expense and hassle, because this hassle on the front end sounds unbearable. I hope you’re able to enjoy your vacation!

100% this.
sent are you in individual therapy? If so, I think you should definitely discuss and process why you had to go through his bag and repack and how you can handle situations like that going forward until you divorce. There is no need to create unnecessary stress or irritation for yourself.

This. Let him bring and deal with whatever luggage he wants. You just worry about yourself and your kids.

[ssmjlm]

sent I watched multiple people wearing belt bags and having 2 other bags be pulled aside at the gate until they could be reduced to two items. They’re not playing.

[cville]

Listen, I am not dealing with this in my own life but I occasionally check in here because you all are so creative and tough and it's inspiring. Plus I internet care about you.

I know that people do this shit. I know that the same challenges that lead to divorce make the divorce process and coparenting more difficult.

But I am still truly shocked at the bullshit some of your exes pull around child support matters. The money is for THE CHILDREN--their children no less. They act like they're at war and the kids are collateral damage.

Fuck those guys. You all are thinking about things the right way. They are disordered, damaged, and damaging.

Way to kick ass and stay focused, women.

[sent]

Aug 10, 2024 7:07:27 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Aug 10, 2024 6:13:07 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

sent my STBX is a lot like that, with believing the rules don’t apply to him, ever. Release yourself from having to make sure he’s following the rules even if there’s added expense and hassle, because this hassle on the front end sounds unbearable. I hope you’re able to enjoy your vacation!

100% this.
sent are you in individual therapy? If so, I think you should definitely discuss and process why you had to go through his bag and repack and how you can handle situations like that going forward until you divorce. There is no need to create unnecessary stress or irritation for yourself.

I did do some therapy over a year ago but my schedule wasn’t matching with hers. I need to reconnect. I repacked the bags because I know when we are traveling as a party of 4, there may be times where one adult (me) has to watch all the bags and possibly move them while he goes to get tickets or info or take DS to the bathroom. It already happened. He asked DD to hold the weekender balanced on top of the roller board while he went to get our Air train fares. DD was struggling. When he came back, I said “don’t ask us to hold your bags.” He retorted with “then don’t ask me to help/hold your bags either.” There’s just no winning here.

I think this trip will be fun though. We made it to the airport and it’s relaxing already. I learned a long time ago to not be the person who offers new info like “she said the bathrooms are to the right.” Because if they end up not being to the right, it’s an opportunity to be torn down. He can find out where the bathrooms are and we’ll follow.

[wanderingback]

sent I think you are missing the point, hence why therapy would be a good idea. I hope you have a great vacation! We’re rooting for you to get out this toxic relationship asap.

[campermom]

Older DS 15 is challenging ExH. He informed him about his best friends bday party which will be on his weekend in a few weeks, starting in the am at a lake, then the mom will bring them to their house for a sleepover. ExH informed him he already bought tickets for the family for a baseball game that day at 4pm. I know the issue is EX doesn’t want to drive back and forth. I will be out of town for the party drop off, which is typically how these things are handled-dad says just stay w mom and have her take you, bc he doesn’t want to drive. DS informed him I can’t. That’s how he handled his whole week staycation-bc DS had to work and had baseball.

He tries to pull DS from point A point B all the way onto left field, by claiming he told him about this game already, blamed DS for not putting it on his calendar etc. Suggested that best friend change the date of the party if others also cannot make it. I saw the elements of the narcissist setup, the circuitous argument, the “prove it” mentality ExH has. ExH would use that emotion the victim invests in proving the point to then be like “see I told you” but it wouldn’t change the fact that he just found out about the party. He does this to elevate emotions and defensiveness.

DS steered the course though, he kept from Ppint A to B and point blank asked him if he was going to make him miss his best friends bday party. It’s certainly possible, but a lot of driving for ExH. He moved 60-90 minutes away depending on traffic.

Eventually DS told him this is a consequence of moving far away from his kids. ExH called him selfish numerous times, in text. ExH told him to get a ride bc he won’t take him. DS did, he arranged to spend the night before at a friends house whose mom has offered to help him in any way.

ExH warned him they will be talking about how entitled he is and how he approached the situation (which was factual and not emotional if you ask me but I made sure to stay out of the whole thing.)

This is the worst part: My daughter texted me when they got picked up for their week vacation and said “Dads yelling at him, but I’m backing him up. Dad told him if he refuses to get in the car one time, dad is allowed to refuse to take him places he wants to go to on a different weekend”

My son must be so upset bc I’ve checked in w him a few times about his trip since yesterday and haven’t heard back.

[babsbunny]

I'm sorry campermom. That sounds like a lot for kids to deal with.

[deadwing]

campermom, your kid is handling a tough situation beautifully! Good for him and I'm glad he found a solution so he can go to the party.

[sent]

Aug 11, 2024 7:06:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

sent I think you are missing the point, hence why therapy would be a good idea. I hope you have a great vacation! We’re rooting for you to get out this toxic relationship asap.

I would appreciate if you or anyone else would share what the point is that I’m missing. I understand therapy is important but I won’t get to experience the enlightenment of what I missed until I make it there.

[polarbearfans]

Aug 11, 2024 16:51:53 GMT -5 sent said:

Aug 11, 2024 7:06:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

sent I think you are missing the point, hence why therapy would be a good idea. I hope you have a great vacation! We’re rooting for you to get out this toxic relationship asap.

I would appreciate if you or anyone else would share what the point is that I’m missing. I understand therapy is important but I won’t get to experience the enlightenment of what I missed until I make it there.

For me it was helpful hearing having the support of someone else to navigate through the gaslighting and narcissistic behavior of my ex. It really helped give me the strength to advocate for myself, and to set boundaries.

[mommyatty]

sent, I think the point is you’re managing him and saving him (and you) from himself, which is just stressing you out more. I get why you’re doing it: it’s the “a stitch in time saves nine” thing. But I think the point is what you eventually got to: we aren’t watching your crap, and I won’t ask you to watch mine. But he does need to take 50% responsibility for the kids on this trip. I think you just have to start living parallel lives, letting him fail/be an ass/make an ass of himself, and refuse to be hit with the blowback.

I really hope he had to check a stupid bag.

[cville]

Aug 11, 2024 16:51:53 GMT -5 sent said:

Aug 11, 2024 7:06:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

sent I think you are missing the point, hence why therapy would be a good idea. I hope you have a great vacation! We’re rooting for you to get out this toxic relationship asap.

I would appreciate if you or anyone else would share what the point is that I’m missing. I understand therapy is important but I won’t get to experience the enlightenment of what I missed until I make it there.

You are expending energy managing around his feelings and behaviors at every step. Energy of a volume and frequency that no grown person should ever need to expend to keep their grown person partner from being explosive/harsh/angry/sarcastic/unkind/passive aggressive/unhelpful.

It's not that your vacation won't have good parts and relaxation. Or that what you did with the packing et al worked. It's that you had to plan, think, and act around him from the jump.

[wanderingback]

sent - exactly what cville and mommyatty said.
To be concrete, you did not need to pack/repack for him. It did not save you any aggravation. When you got to the airport and if he had to check a bag, so be it. He can’t make you or the kids physically lift a big so it doesn’t matter if it’s too heavy. You can watch a bag without lifting it. If it falls over because there is a heavy bag on top, so be it. When that happens you don’t have to say anything.

I was with an emotionally abusive husband. At the end when I knew I was leaving it sucked to have to walk on egg shells, but it really was not worth it to go back and forth with him. I just kept things light while secretly rejoicing in my head that I was leaving his ass soon. As much as I wanted to cuss him the fuck out I really did just take the "kill em with kindness approach" because it was much less stressful. You are not going to change him. He is going to keep gaslighting you. Save your breath and work on boundaries.

ETA: and therapy can help you figure out why you’re stuck in this pattern and what to do about it.

[Nugget T. Brain, The OG]

*pencils Sent's STBX in for beatings with a sack of oranges*

[livinitup]

This may not be helpful:

sent. I want to refer your H to intensive therapy for “how not to be an AH” because he really, really needs it. What kind of asshole packs those items into those bags for a family vacation with that many transfers?? On what planet does someone just expect, literally EXPECT his child/wife/other people to mind them, manage them, look after them, etc. Who doesn’t see all of this coming, anticipate it all? He can anticipate looking fancy in super duper expensive clothes and anticipate (in a delusional way) people thinking he’s the shit with a designer label bag. He can pluck special rules out of thin air that only apply to him like extra carryon bags on a plane. Is he an orphan from the planet Asshole where this asshole behavior is normal? Like how Superman is a normal person on the planet Krypton? He can jump really high and see through things only because he is on earth. Would this guy be normal on his home planet but is just SuperAsshole because he’s on earth with us?

[supertrooper1]

amandakisser, I use the Talking Parents app. I only use the messaging portion, but there is an option to have recorded phone and video calls.

[bcv513]

I opened my big mouth with XMIL this weekend. It was XH's weekend with C but it was also my birthday. He was nice enough to offer to let me keep her Friday and Saturday if he could have her the Friday and Saturday of his birthday. I said of course. When I went to drop C off, XH wasn't home. His mom came out and got C. She wished me a happy birthday and I thanked her. Then in this sickeningly sweet voice she said "XH will be home soon. He's out on a date. Does it bother you that he's out on a date?" Guys. Without even thinking I said "No not at all. It bothered me when he dated while we were married, but it doesn't bother me now." XMIL sputtered and huffed and I just said "Have a great night" and drove away.