A thread for those of us separated/divorced

[purplinsky]

starburst604, you've received good advice from other ladies regarding asking for the more restrictive options and I just wanted to add that you should keep in mind this is not criminal court. You mentioned your XH has a personality disorder, has this been diagnosed by a mental health professional? If not, I would not include that, but if it is then I would have your lawyer get their hands on those medical records. The other items that you consider to be circumstantial should be brought up to your lawyer, as well as any communications, interactions, and examples of behavior. You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt or anything like that, you just need to clearly document and provide evidence to support your claims. I'm not a lawyer and things will vary by jurisdiction, so definitely check with your lawyer, but the burden of proof for family court is not the same as criminal court so make sure your lawyer has all information and they can provide guidance and align on how to present things in court.

[starburst604]

Aug 14, 2024 9:49:50 GMT -5 purplinsky said:

starburst604 , you've received good advice from other ladies regarding asking for the more restrictive options and I just wanted to add that you should keep in mind this is not criminal court. You mentioned your XH has a personality disorder, has this been diagnosed by a mental health professional? If not, I would not include that, but if it is then I would have your lawyer get their hands on those medical records. The other items that you consider to be circumstantial should be brought up to your lawyer, as well as any communications, interactions, and examples of behavior. You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt or anything like that, you just need to clearly document and provide evidence to support your claims. I'm not a lawyer and things will vary by jurisdiction, so definitely check with your lawyer, but the burden of proof for family court is not the same as criminal court so make sure your lawyer has all information and they can provide guidance and align on how to present things in court.

Thank you for that reminder. I don't even know what I'm looking for here - I don't want to restrict his time with DD but my gut and some things I've seen tell me he's not in a great place and I'll never forgive myself if something happens with her and I had never said a word. I also fully expect that he will respond by attacking my character and say I have a problem too. My attorney says that with what I've told her, we absolutely CAN do something about it now and we are having a call on Monday to discuss. I keep waffling on this because in one moment he'll be a lunatic by text and then the next day he's normal. Like today he took DD to the orthodontist, looped me in over speaker phone and we had a normal discussion about future orthodontia. Then I'll let my guard down and boom he does it again, and lately it's been more frequent. 

He 100% fits the profile of a narcissist but no he's never been diagnosed, like most narcissists because they aren't interested in looking within themselves! The substance abuse just amplifies his awful behavior. His medical records would support that he's more recently on several meds for anxiety/depression which by itself isn't an issue, but combined with self-medicating it certainly is. I'm pretty sure there's medical documentation of his alcohol abuse as well. 

[pinkdutchtulips]

Aug 14, 2024 10:35:51 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 14, 2024 9:49:50 GMT -5 purplinsky said:

starburst604 , you've received good advice from other ladies regarding asking for the more restrictive options and I just wanted to add that you should keep in mind this is not criminal court. You mentioned your XH has a personality disorder, has this been diagnosed by a mental health professional? If not, I would not include that, but if it is then I would have your lawyer get their hands on those medical records. The other items that you consider to be circumstantial should be brought up to your lawyer, as well as any communications, interactions, and examples of behavior. You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt or anything like that, you just need to clearly document and provide evidence to support your claims. I'm not a lawyer and things will vary by jurisdiction, so definitely check with your lawyer, but the burden of proof for family court is not the same as criminal court so make sure your lawyer has all information and they can provide guidance and align on how to present things in court.

Thank you for that reminder. I don't even know what I'm looking for here - I don't want to restrict his time with DD but my gut and some things I've seen tell me he's not in a great place and I'll never forgive myself if something happens with her and I had never said a word. I also fully expect that he will respond by attacking my character and say I have a problem too. My attorney says that with what I've told her, we absolutely CAN do something about it now and we are having a call on Monday to discuss. I keep waffling on this because in one moment he'll be a lunatic by text and then the next day he's normal. Like today he took DD to the orthodontist, looped me in over speaker phone and we had a normal discussion about future orthodontia. Then I'll let my guard down and boom he does it again, and lately it's been more frequent. 

He 100% fits the profile of a narcissist but no he's never been diagnosed, like most narcissists because they aren't interested in looking within themselves! The substance abuse just amplifies his awful behavior. His medical records would support that he's more recently on several meds for anxiety/depression which by itself isn't an issue, but combined with self-medicating it certainly is. I'm pretty sure there's medical documentation of his alcohol abuse as well. 

As someone who has gone down this road, do what's best for your DD and keep her away from someone who has substance abuse issues and mental health disorders that they decline to seek help for.  Custody was determined at my DVRO hearing - the stack of police reports, ER reports (that contained a dx of drug induced psychosis), CPS reports .. was all that the Judge needed.  Custody can always be revisited if he gets clean and sober. 

[lucybrown]

Aug 14, 2024 11:58:31 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Aug 14, 2024 10:35:51 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

ETA: My quote isn't working.  I meant to bold this:  Custody can always be revisited if he gets clean and sober
-----------

This.  This mindset is so much healthier than thinking custody can be revisited if he gets worse.  

I get that you want to have compassion and that sometimes he is a reasonable human.  Few people are awful all the time.  There are/were reasons you loved him.  But addicts are master manipulators.  They will always put themselves and their addiction first. 

Al Anon is a great resource for you and DD as well. Even though you're separated, you have still been impacted by his drinking etc..  It has helped me learn how to detach with love and let others have the consequences of their actions.  He will have zero motivation to ever get sober and or the mental health support he needs if others continue to soften the fall.  

[pinkdutchtulips]

Aug 14, 2024 12:17:25 GMT -5 lucybrown said:

Aug 14, 2024 11:58:31 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

ETA: My quote isn't working.  I meant to bold this:  Custody can always be revisited if he gets clean and sober
-----------

This.  This mindset is so much healthier than thinking custody can be revisited if he gets worse.  

I get that you want to have compassion and that sometimes he is a reasonable human.  Few people are awful all the time.  There are/were reasons you loved him.  But addicts are master manipulators.  They will always put themselves and their addiction first. 

Al Anon is a great resource for you and DD as well. Even though you're separated, you have still been impacted by his drinking etc..  It has helped me learn how to detach with love and let others have the consequences of their actions.  He will have zero motivation to ever get sober and or the mental health support he needs if others continue to soften the fall.  

ditto to Al Anon ... the 18 months I spent doing that was immensely helpful in how I dealt w him and my life going forward

[Totally not sofamonkey]

I get the wanting to be the bigger person, to do what’s right for your kids, not limit time with their other parent.

However, you being protective of your child’s safety and mental health is not negating that. You’ll never regret keeping your kid safe, and it is impossible to go back and make choices over. So, make the tough choices now, rather than deal with the tough consequences later. I strongly encourage you all in need of this to shift your perspective. And huge hugs, this is so incredibly hard. ❤️❤️❤️

[jobae1234]

Aug 14, 2024 10:35:51 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 14, 2024 9:49:50 GMT -5 purplinsky said:

starburst604 , you've received good advice from other ladies regarding asking for the more restrictive options and I just wanted to add that you should keep in mind this is not criminal court. You mentioned your XH has a personality disorder, has this been diagnosed by a mental health professional? If not, I would not include that, but if it is then I would have your lawyer get their hands on those medical records. The other items that you consider to be circumstantial should be brought up to your lawyer, as well as any communications, interactions, and examples of behavior. You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt or anything like that, you just need to clearly document and provide evidence to support your claims. I'm not a lawyer and things will vary by jurisdiction, so definitely check with your lawyer, but the burden of proof for family court is not the same as criminal court so make sure your lawyer has all information and they can provide guidance and align on how to present things in court.

Thank you for that reminder. I don't even know what I'm looking for here - I don't want to restrict his time with DD but my gut and some things I've seen tell me he's not in a great place and I'll never forgive myself if something happens with her and I had never said a word. I also fully expect that he will respond by attacking my character and say I have a problem too. My attorney says that with what I've told her, we absolutely CAN do something about it now and we are having a call on Monday to discuss. I keep waffling on this because in one moment he'll be a lunatic by text and then the next day he's normal. Like today he took DD to the orthodontist, looped me in over speaker phone and we had a normal discussion about future orthodontia. Then I'll let my guard down and boom he does it again, and lately it's been more frequent. 

He 100% fits the profile of a narcissist but no he's never been diagnosed, like most narcissists because they aren't interested in looking within themselves! The substance abuse just amplifies his awful behavior. His medical records would support that he's more recently on several meds for anxiety/depression which by itself isn't an issue, but combined with self-medicating it certainly is. I'm pretty sure there's medical documentation of his alcohol abuse as well. 

Inconsistent behavior is another vote for problematic substance abuse. You’ve been taking it as a sign not to move forward when you should be taking it as a sign that you definitely should. He’s on something at night.

[starburst604]

Aug 14, 2024 16:32:10 GMT -5 jobae1234 said:

Aug 14, 2024 10:35:51 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Thank you for that reminder. I don't even know what I'm looking for here - I don't want to restrict his time with DD but my gut and some things I've seen tell me he's not in a great place and I'll never forgive myself if something happens with her and I had never said a word. I also fully expect that he will respond by attacking my character and say I have a problem too. My attorney says that with what I've told her, we absolutely CAN do something about it now and we are having a call on Monday to discuss. I keep waffling on this because in one moment he'll be a lunatic by text and then the next day he's normal. Like today he took DD to the orthodontist, looped me in over speaker phone and we had a normal discussion about future orthodontia. Then I'll let my guard down and boom he does it again, and lately it's been more frequent. 

He 100% fits the profile of a narcissist but no he's never been diagnosed, like most narcissists because they aren't interested in looking within themselves! The substance abuse just amplifies his awful behavior. His medical records would support that he's more recently on several meds for anxiety/depression which by itself isn't an issue, but combined with self-medicating it certainly is. I'm pretty sure there's medical documentation of his alcohol abuse as well. 

Inconsistent behavior is another vote for problematic substance abuse. You’ve been taking it as a sign not to move forward when you should be taking it as a sign that you definitely should. He’s on something at night.

Very very true. I know my fear is rooted in his ability to deflect and make himself the victim in every situation, and I’m worried he’ll somehow end up making it look like I am the one with a problem.

[livinitup]

Aug 14, 2024 16:50:30 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 14, 2024 16:32:10 GMT -5 jobae1234 said:

Inconsistent behavior is another vote for problematic substance abuse. You’ve been taking it as a sign not to move forward when you should be taking it as a sign that you definitely should. He’s on something at night.

Very very true. I know my fear is rooted in his ability to deflect and make himself the victim in every situation, and I’m worried he’ll somehow end up making it look like I am the one with a problem.

Sounds like knowledge is power. You know his moves, so build your case for yourself proactively. What does your lawyer recommend ? Your doctor? A physical with bloodwork? Something else concrete? I can imagine that judges are familiar with problematic parents who throw allegations back on the accuser as a deflection tactic.

[starburst604]

I have a call set up with my attorney for Monday and I guess we’ll discuss it all. I could take a drug test tomorrow and be completely clear for everything. I know he can’t say the same. My medical records show that I am in perfect health both physically and mentally.

[mommyatty]

starburst604, our adult niece is living with a man with two daughters whose ex is an alcoholic and meth addict with diagnosed sociopathic personality disorder. They settled on a visitation and custody arrangement where the mom has supervised day (not overnight) visitation until she is clean and has finished rehab/counseling for 90 days, then supervised overnight visitation until she’s been clean and in counseling after 6 months, then regular visitation after she’s been clean and in counseling for a year. She’s drug tested once a week at her expense, and every time she fails one, she starts over.

It’s also written in the plan that neither party nor the adults in their household can drink or do drugs while the kids are in their custody. Since the dad is also a recovering addict, that’s probably wise, though it sucks our 25 year old niece can’t have a glass of wine occasionally.

Can I just say Washington State family court sucks? Poor guy was married for 4 months. It took almost two years to get divorced. And you don’t have a judge who knows your case. You have a stable of special masters and you pull a new one every hearing. So there’s no continuity. Every hearing is flipping Groundhog Day. I was appalled.

[Nugget T. Brain, The OG]

So many dusty, ratchet asses to beat, so little time.

Y'all are queens, just in case you forgot.

[mel]

I silently read and commend every badass woman in here. And also, pretty much everything Nugget T. Brain, The OG says is gospel.

[Aloe Vera]

In all honesty though, starburst604, the hotel episode was a tell-tale sign for me that your XH is on something. The first thing that came to my mind was that he was bad tripping. Sure, the scammer might have triggered him but his reaction was hugely disproportionate.

[starburst604]

Aug 15, 2024 11:05:26 GMT -5 Aloe Vera said:

In all honesty though, starburst604, the hotel episode was a tell-tale sign for me that your XH is on something. The first thing that came to my mind was that he was bad tripping. Sure, the scammer might have triggered him but his reaction was hugely disproportionate.

Well, that one as bizarre as it was, I mean he could have been using that night, but we had been sleeping deeply for 4 hours when that call came. We were both pretty disoriented at 3:30am after drinking at a wedding.

[whattheheck]

May 15, 2024 8:10:47 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

I’m happy for everyone who is several years past the initial separation and doing well and has moved on. I married in 2002, separated/filed for divorce in 2010, finally divorced in 2012. And yet here I sit in the parking lot of the courthouse because he is bringing me to court AGAIN for some perceived injustice. I’m so over it and just wish he was too.

MOTION DENIED MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!

Although even though he lost AGAIN I highly doubt that this will be the end to all of this litigation. But I’ll take this brief respite for now.

[ax2]

Nothing nearly as horrible as some of you have going on, but my ex told me this weekend that he met someone new. I knew it would happen, and it’s been almost a year since he moved out, but it still feels gross to know he’s with someone new. I’m sure it’ll pass quickly when she realizes he’s a tool, but there’s definitely feelings of “what’s she got that I didn’t”. Ick.

[deadwing]

Aug 20, 2024 16:32:11 GMT -5 ax2 said:

Nothing nearly as horrible as some of you have going on, but my ex told me this weekend that he met someone new. I knew it would happen, and it’s been almost a year since he moved out, but it still feels gross to know he’s with someone new. I’m sure it’ll pass quickly when she realizes he’s a tool, but there’s definitely feelings of “what’s she got that I didn’t”. Ick.

She's got a relationship with a man who has proven himself to be a bad partner. Does that perspective help?

[jlt19]

Aug 15, 2024 11:17:48 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Aug 15, 2024 11:05:26 GMT -5 Aloe Vera said:

In all honesty though, starburst604, the hotel episode was a tell-tale sign for me that your XH is on something. The first thing that came to my mind was that he was bad tripping. Sure, the scammer might have triggered him but his reaction was hugely disproportionate.

Well, that one as bizarre as it was, I mean he could have been using that night, but we had been sleeping deeply for 4 hours when that call came. We were both pretty disoriented at 3:30am after drinking at a wedding.

Wait, is he the one that threw the AC out the hotel window or something? I don’t remember any details but remember it being part hilarious part German embarrassing.

[starburst604]

Aug 20, 2024 18:33:17 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Aug 15, 2024 11:17:48 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Well, that one as bizarre as it was, I mean he could have been using that night, but we had been sleeping deeply for 4 hours when that call came. We were both pretty disoriented at 3:30am after drinking at a wedding.

Wait, is he the one that threw the AC out the hotel window or something? I don’t remember any details but remember it being part hilarious part German embarrassing.

It was more than the AC lol. We were victims of a really bad prank that had happened before. I don’t like to think about it!

[campermom]

PDQ

A what would you do? Knowing the history of this ExH, too.

I nowhave an open case for child support. I filed August 5. They needed more and more and more paperwork, but it was explained that the reason they needed what seems like unnecessarily papers is in the event he doesn’t pay the bureau, their lawyers go after him and would need everything.

Since I filed Aug 5, and he still hasn’t paid Aug 1’s months CS, they would not go after that.

Do I:
A) go to the courthouse and file the papers for contempt w the clerk
B) pay my lawyer to represent me for contempt
C) or, as my dad says. I’m being “spiteful” and I could “just ask for it bc there has to be a logical reason”

My add on to C is that I warned him in 2021 (and did not follow through a few times bc it always came 1-2 days) if he’s late again I’d file through the bureau. And that I’m pretty sure he wants me to ask/beg.

Now, it’s moving forward regardless, that everything will be automatic from here on. It’s just the August payment I need to decide what to do about.

ETA: my order says if anyone’s found to be in contempt they pay the others legal fees. That said I could see him make me rack up lawyer bills then pay on the courthouse steps

[jlt19]

campermom I’d ask for Augusts payment via the message app you all use. Just once though. No begging, no groveling. Just “August is nearly over and I’m still waiting on August 1sts payment. Wanted to give you a heads up before September hits.” If he pays, great. You’ve got it before he gets pissed that you’ve filed for it with the courts and he can’t hold it over your head.

If he doesn’t, that’s just more “ammo” for a contempt case.

[campermom]

We just text bc I found that when we used the app, he was having me manage two calendars. One for me and one for the app. And there was constant questions being texted-did you get that I added XYZ to the app? Did you see I added something to the app? And they were things he wasn’t even bothering to go to

[starburst604]

campermom I’d definitely move ahead with having his wages garnished, but in the short term I’d just ask/text or send a Venmo invoice. If that doesn’t work, it will get added to what he owes once the state is taking care of it.

Beyond that, I’d probably just file through the courthouse. Only because I would not want to front even more money for him to owe me.

[Totally not sofamonkey]

campermom if not ask at all. He knows when this regular bill is due, every month. If you can’t pay for things, that would be different. But this is just one more manipulation attempt. Stick with the plan of using the courts.

And your dad can go pound sand too. He either isn’t very understanding, or dismissive.

[campermom]

PDQ

Totally not sofamonkey this is where I’m at. At 5 days late my dad said I was being “spiteful” by having exH’s wages garnished. and it’s having me second guess myself. He said “certainly there’s a logical explanation, why don’t you just ask?” I don’t even look at is as “garnishment” I see it as direct deposit. Cut out the BS every month.

He hasn’t forgotten. A man who had my credit cards connected to text alerts and checked his bank account daily did not forget.

And here we are 23 days late and I’m now just leaving my dad out of my family text update about this. My sisters and mom are wholly supportive and feel my ExH should be ashamed of himself.

You know what I want? For this psychological abuse to be met with a swift boundary and consequence. If that means it’s in the form of a public acknowledgment of contempt on our case search history, and for him to have to explain to his wife why he has child support enforcement involved. I care less about the second part actually. I just want something formal and NOT FROM ME.

Does it seems like my motive is revenge? Bc it’s not-I this is Post Separation Abuse/Continued Financial Abuse and I want it to stop.

[mommyatty]

campermom- Option B. It’s too easy to miss a box you need to check or something, so don’t try to do it yourself. Pay your lawyer. He hasn’t forgotten. Even if he pays on the courthouse steps, screw him. Still go through with the contempt hearing. And put all the other shit he hasn’t paid for in there too. Every dime. If he tries to pay up, tell him he now owes you your attorney fees too.

[lucybrown]

campermom, this is not revenge or petty. You set a boundary and are upholding it. Kudos for that.

This money is owed for his children. That he chose to have and is legally and ethically obligated to provide for. And he’s not doing that. Actions have consequences.

I’d leave your dad out of it. You don’t need that judgement and negativity. TBH, I judge him for defending XH.

[starburst604]

I definitely don’t think this is revenge at all, and I’m sorry that your dad has been making you feel that way. I second not sharing things with him anymore. I think it can be hard for some people to understand the subtle kind of abuse that comes from a narc. By now though you’d think he’d have caught on that your XH isn’t forgetful when it comes to money, and this fucking guy is withholding financial support for his children!

As you know, this is just one more way he is trying to control you and push your boundaries. So good for you pushing back. I would pay money to see his face when he finds out his wages will be garnished, and he can’t play petty little games anymore with child support.

[lostrn]

If your dad thinks he's just made a mistake and forgotten, then your dad can try the asking him for it route on your behalf. See how far he gets with this person 🙄

I think I'd probably pay my lawyer to deal with it personally. This isn't a new thing, this isn't something that has slipped his mind, he's being himself and it would be nice if he had to face consequences for that.