A thread for those of us separated/divorced

[shauni27]

glitzy07, I am also here because my BFF has been going through a similar experience. But good god, the level of petty that douche has! Blocking on social media is small potatoes compared to what he is doing.

mcmel, I am glad to hear you are having so much fun! You deserve it!

[blondemoment123]

Sept 12, 2024 13:18:13 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Sept 12, 2024 13:09:34 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

omg the fucking audacity of this guy!!

I would be furiously typing and then deleting responses to find the right one.

"i bet you fucking do."
"go fuck yourself."
"boy, bye."
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" followed by the "not today, mother fucker" gif.
etc.

Along with "I'd miss me too!" What a fucking asshole. 

I laughed and deleted. He doesn't deserve a response.

[shauni27]

Sept 12, 2024 17:46:15 GMT -5 blondemoment123 said:

Sept 12, 2024 13:18:13 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Along with "I'd miss me too!" What a fucking asshole. 

I laughed and deleted. He doesn't deserve a response.

Perfect.

[campermom]

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

[Aloe Vera]

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

You know he won't do it/say no because he knows this will inconvenience you and that's how he keeps power over you. Don't give him the power anymore.

[cville]

campermom, leaving aside whether you should have to handle every medical appointment (you shouldn't), have you explored intermittent FMLA leave? Your limited PTO is a big source of stress, and that may be a way for you to handle some of these appointments for chronic/ongoing issues.

[livinitup]

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

So, he’s going to say no? Is there a way to flip the script so that he wants to say yes/it’s a benefit for him?

Is it just a joy for him to send you a “chapter text back” no matter what, so you just have to endure it to get the coverage for the appointment?

[amandakisser]

Honestly, you need to stop asking him for things you know he will say no to. It's adding additional stress to your life, and having to brace yourself every time isn't helping, either. I say this with kindness, as I know how hard it is to untangle from this type of relationship. My XH was giving me a ridiculously hard time about watching his kids because I got a second job, so I just stopped asking him. I find others to help and that alone has done WONDERS for my stress levels.

Since I've stopped asking, he's been proactively asking for ways to help out. I still assume I am going to do it all, so when he does step up, it's a nice surprise. I don't expect it to last, as its all part of the cycle of abuse, but I'm prepared for it and I don't have to deal with all of his shit.

I also echo looking into intermittent FMLA - this is exactly what it's designed for, and you can take it as-needed and it will protect your job. Any ways to reduce your stress will be beneficial to both you and your kids.

[thebreakfastclub]

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

Please tell me the damn dentist has Saturday or evening hours. Don't do this to yourself over a teeth cleaning. If they don't, find a new one.

[Roc A Bee]

The best thing we did was find a dentist that has weekend appointments. We would fight with the kids’ mom all the time because she would make appointments at times that didn’t work for us and then tell us to take the kids.

So we found a dentist that works for our schedule, we make all dentist appointments/follow ups as necessary. Mom then does all derm (for one kid) and eye doc for both. WAY less fighting that way.

[starburst604]

FMLA is a great suggestion for you campermom
I'd also maybe send him a list of all the appointments at the end of each month with a note saying "here are all of the upcoming appointments next month. Let me know which ones you will handle" rather than trying to haggle them one at a time. If he says none or ignores it, you have your answer. I say this in case there is ever a time that you take legal action for all of his inactions, you will have proof that you provided him the schedule of appointments and he refused help. 

[pinkdutchtulips]

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

Just stop asking him period. You already know he won't do it. The sheer number of appointments is immaterial. 

Stop giving him this control over you emotionally and mentally. The more you ask, the more control you give him . Eliminate the ask, eliminate the control. 

ETA- Finding medical professionals with evening, weekend, and virtual appointments has been a godsend. Ask yourself, does this HAVE to be an in-person appt or can this be done via teledoc? Lifechanging.

 

[lavenderblue]

You've gotten some great advice here campermom

I know how hard it is being the parent that does it all with no help. My exH would only show up for things/take her to appointments if it would somehow make him look good, like her therapy and psych appointments where he would trash talk me to make himself look like the hero. Once I stopped depending on him / asking him for help, things got exponentially easier and way less stressful. I am able to flex my work time so that helps, which if you are unable to do, FMLA is a great option. I know how stressful it is thinking that your job could be at risk just because you are a single parent.

[audry80]

I would pretend he is dead campermom

Then you have no expectations on him helping out and will not give him power to control your narrative.

[mommyatty]

I disagree that campermom shouldn’t ask. He has an obligation under the order because this is an ongoing problem. Since he’s so money-motivated, I would tell him “here are all the appointments I’ve covered this year. You’ve covered this many. Here are the remaining appointments. You need to take # or cover my leave without pay which is $z per day. Let me know which you will be doing.”

[purplinsky]

Sept 13, 2024 12:17:35 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

I disagree that campermom shouldn’t ask. He has an obligation under the order because this is an ongoing problem. Since he’s so money-motivated, I would tell him “here are all the appointments I’ve covered this year. You’ve covered this many. Here are the remaining appointments. You need to take # or cover my leave without pay which is $z per day. Let me know which you will be doing.”

This is great in theory, but at some point it's more important to protect your own mental health and wellbeing and stop inviting the stress and control that comes with asking or expecting him to step up. campermom , knows he will do anything possible to try to exert control over her life, cause her stress, and make her life more difficult. We all know he's not going to pull his weight, regardless of the court order...honestly, from my experience, it's just not worth it. My stress levels and everything else improved so much once I stopped having any expectation of cooperation, assistance, or financial support from XH. The way I see it, I can set myself and my child up for success by sorting everything out without the help of XH or I can exert mental energy feeling frustrated, angry, disappointed, and then stress about how to get things done when the guy ultimately lets me down and have to scramble to figure things out. For me, I choose to reduce the drama in my life and decided to take the control back. For campermom's sake, I hope she can do the same wherever it's possible, and not asking for him to step up for doctor's/dentist's appointments is a great example where she can take the power back and reduce the stress and drama in her life.

Edit: And just to address the second part of your post, if it's not in their court order then he's not obligated to pay her any money for her taking leave from her job. If he's anything like my XH, if I said something like that he would laugh in my face, tell me to kick rocks, and still not help out with anything I've asked. Again, not worth the toll it takes on mental health or the drama...in my opinion.

[thebreakfastclub]

Sept 13, 2024 12:17:35 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

I disagree that campermom shouldn’t ask. He has an obligation under the order because this is an ongoing problem. Since he’s so money-motivated, I would tell him “here are all the appointments I’ve covered this year. You’ve covered this many. Here are the remaining appointments. You need to take # or cover my leave without pay which is $z per day. Let me know which you will be doing.”

Do you think this would work with a high-conflict, financially and emotionally abusive person?  I don't.

[mommyatty]

purplinsky- it’s in the order that he has to do 50% of the appointments/sick days. So if he’s not doing it, she can ask him to make her whole. And possibly ask her attorney to amend the order to account for his failures.

I agree it would be great if she could just say “go pound sand,” but she doesn’t have the kind of job where she has the kind of flexibility that allows you to do 65 appointments in a year without losing pay. He actually does. So if he’s not going to use his leave, then he needs to pay up. But yeah, give him the choice of which he’s going to do.

[dontlook]

Sept 13, 2024 12:52:34 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

purplinsky- it’s in the order that he has to do 50% of the appointments/sick days. So if he’s not doing it, she can ask him to make her whole. And possibly ask her attorney to amend the order to account for his failures.

I agree it would be great if she could just say “go pound sand,” but she doesn’t have the kind of job where she has the kind of flexibility that allows you to do 65 appointments in a year without losing pay. He actually does. So if he’s not going to use his leave, then he needs to pay up. But yeah, give him the choice of which he’s going to do.

Then she needs to talk to her attorney about to get him to do 50%. Just sending him a text with a financial threat isn’t going to help her. She needs to handle this all legally or ignore him.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Sept 13, 2024 12:17:35 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

I disagree that campermom shouldn’t ask. He has an obligation under the order because this is an ongoing problem. Since he’s so money-motivated, I would tell him “here are all the appointments I’ve covered this year. You’ve covered this many. Here are the remaining appointments. You need to take # or cover my leave without pay which is $z per day. Let me know which you will be doing.”

The way I see it is this.  Yes, campermom could do that and spell it all out and make it super clear and make it that there is real no back and forth needed, but this manchild will STILL find a way to engage, which in turn, will stress campermom.  Not asking him for help with the appointments to avoid the headache may seem like she is letting him off easy or giving in to his plan or whatever, but it's not about any of that.  His motivation is the engagement.  His motivation is the connection and the communication.  It doesn't matter what it is about.  Not engaging him is the only way to "cut him off" so to speak from his "supply".  Narcissists love the communication because it gives them a reason to twist you into pieces.  

I like the idea someone about said about outlining all the appointments for the month in one text/email and then never speaking of it again.  And that way if he does or doesn't respond you will have proof for court.  If he responds anything other than I will take kids to whatever appointments, then disengage and consider that a "no" answer and move on.

[Roc A Bee]

Is he taking you back to court again? If yes, I’d use it to specify what appointments are done by who. I’d put it in black and white he does specific docs and you do others.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Sept 13, 2024 13:14:07 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Sept 13, 2024 12:17:35 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

I disagree that campermom shouldn’t ask. He has an obligation under the order because this is an ongoing problem. Since he’s so money-motivated, I would tell him “here are all the appointments I’ve covered this year. You’ve covered this many. Here are the remaining appointments. You need to take # or cover my leave without pay which is $z per day. Let me know which you will be doing.”

The way I see it is this.  Yes, campermom could do that and spell it all out and make it super clear and make it that there is real no back and forth needed, but this manchild will STILL find a way to engage, which in turn, will stress campermom .  Not asking him for help with the appointments to avoid the headache may seem like she is letting him off easy or giving in to his plan or whatever, but it's not about any of that.  His motivation is the engagement.  His motivation is the connection and the communication.  It doesn't matter what it is about.  Not engaging him is the only way to "cut him off" so to speak from his "supply".  Narcissists love the communication because it gives them a reason to twist you into pieces.  

I like the idea someone about said about outlining all the appointments for the month in one text/email and then never speaking of it again.  And that way if he does or doesn't respond you will have proof for court.  If he responds anything other than I will take kids to whatever appointments, then disengage and consider that a "no" answer and move on.

Speaking from experience, the bolded part is why I was satisfied with the Judge awarding me full legal AND physical custody and why I never pursued child support. Sure single solo parenting is HARD but having to co-parent w someone like him was harder and far more stressful. Having his participation eliminated from the equation helped restore my sanity. 

There were plenty of people out there who thought I was letting him off easy by NOT pursuing child support. What support could be received from a transient addict ?!? None. 

[purplinsky]

Sept 13, 2024 12:52:34 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

purplinsky - it’s in the order that he has to do 50% of the appointments/sick days. So if he’s not doing it, she can ask him to make her whole. And possibly ask her attorney to amend the order to account for his failures.

I agree it would be great if she could just say “go pound sand,” but she doesn’t have the kind of job where she has the kind of flexibility that allows you to do 65 appointments in a year without losing pay. He actually does. So if he’s not going to use his leave, then he needs to pay up. But yeah, give him the choice of which he’s going to do.

I don't think I ever said she should just say "go pound sand" or anything like that when it comes to her job or responsibilities. Lots of people have suggested looking for providers that offer nights and weekends because taking time off from work is not feasible. There are other solutions than continuing to engage the ex and be subjected to his treatment. And amending the order isn't nearly as easy has asking your lawyer to do it. Also, if money is a concern, spending the time, money, and additional stress to go back to court and argue for an amended order where you may not get the outcome you want anyway is just not worth it if you can do other things to protect your wellbeing.

And he doesn't have to pay up or make her whole. If she wants to take him back to court for contempt that's one thing, but it's just not the reality that she can dictate he pay her if he refuses to adhere to the order. That's just not how the system works. And taking someone back to court for contempt has the potential to get expensive, depending on what the process is within your jurisdiction. It may not seem fair or like you're 'winning', but sometimes it's better (financially, mentally, emotionally, etc.) to not force the order for some things. I get it, it's not fair or right, but it's the reality of things.

I do agree that sending the monthly lookahead could be good from a documentation standpoint should campermom, ever decide to take him back to court, but I would send that information with no expectation of a response or help from him and already have a plan to handle the appointments herself.

[starburst604]

Because the kids are young and there are a lot of years ahead to deal with him, I'd want to take this back to court NOW. Yes, he's high conflict but he isn't above the law. I'd also have the court order him to use one of the court monitored communication apps in a HOT SECOND. He needs all the avenues he uses to abuse obstructed and having his wages garnished was the first step. An app forcing him to say only what is necessary for care of the kids would be a great way to put his abuse on mute.

ETA: This guy makes my fucking blood boil so bad, I want to go full Nugget T. Brain, The OG on him!! But I'll settle for seeing him in contempt. Also campermom , maybe your doctors do this already, but ask if when they document the visit, they can say "child comes in today with his mother", for documentation of how often you are bringing them. 

[campermom]

I can’t even start to read responses right now, if for all the FMLA suggestions, yes I’d would qualify.

For unpaid leave. That’s not going to help me.

Plus the nature of my job means I don’t get a sub, and it’s all deadlines based. All the work is left for me to do, just with less time to do it.

[campermom]

Sept 13, 2024 11:13:56 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

Please tell me the damn dentist has Saturday or evening hours. Don't do this to yourself over a teeth cleaning. If they don't, find a new one.

I’m sure I could get a Saturday appt on my weekend and then I’d be left to figure out how to get my kids to their games with an appt I scheduled 8 months ago bc there would inevitably be a conflict

But again-my problem alone to solve

ETA And for evening yes I do them after I get off work-if I schedule them at 2:50 bc sports/teenagers part time job begins around 4-5:30 but the problem is doing the 40 mins of driving to two other schools to pick them up in time for the appointment

I literally do not have free time to do things in life. Even car maintenance is done when I have a work mtg once a month next tot he dealership I schedule it for those days

[campermom]

Sept 13, 2024 11:46:29 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Sept 13, 2024 9:45:02 GMT -5 campermom said:

I am asking for him to take on the dentist appointment in December. I already know I need to reel for the chapter text back, I know I should just relieve myself of asking for favors but you guys, my kids have had 65 appointments this year. So far.

Just stop asking him period. You already know he won't do it. The sheer number of appointments is immaterial. 

Stop giving him this control over you emotionally and mentally. The more you ask, the more control you give him . Eliminate the ask, eliminate the control. 

ETA- Finding medical professionals with evening, weekend, and virtual appointments has been a godsend. Ask yourself, does this HAVE to be an in-person appt or can this be done via teledoc? Lifechanging.

 

I do the every 3 week psychiatry and weekly therapy appt virtually. I have permission to sneak out of my building to get my child, I put him in the car for the med appt and I go back to my building and am allowed to stay late to make up the missed time, under this leadership bc they are understanding. The weekly therapy I am done work but get him out of school early once a week, it’s done at home. I have to get off 45 mins after it starts to get my other son to work.

[campermom]

Sept 13, 2024 13:41:45 GMT -5 Roc A Bee said:

Is he taking you back to court again? If yes, I’d use it to specify what appointments are done by who. I’d put it in black and white he does specific docs and you do others.

The next time will be in less than 3 years when my oldest graduates or if he chooses to retire early, claiming hardship.

[purplinsky]

Sept 13, 2024 14:39:46 GMT -5 campermom said:

Sept 13, 2024 11:13:56 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

Please tell me the damn dentist has Saturday or evening hours. Don't do this to yourself over a teeth cleaning. If they don't, find a new one.

I’m sure I could get a Saturday appt on my weekend and then I’d be left to figure out how to get my kids to their games with an appt I scheduled 8 months ago bc there would inevitably be a conflict

But again-my problem alone to solve

ETA And for evening yes I do them after I get off work-if I schedule them at 2:50 bc sports/teenagers part time job begins around 4-5:30 but the problem is doing the 40 mins of driving to two other schools to pick them up in time for the appointment

I literally do not have free time to do things in life. Even car maintenance is done when I have a work mtg once a month next tot he dealership I schedule it for those days

I know it's easier said than done, and I say this with all the empathy and compassion, it's probably time to start asking for help from teammates parents, friends, neighbors, etc. with some of these non-medical logistics. Practices, games, and part-time jobs are things I would be looking for help with driving so that you can prioritize the kid that has an appointment. I know it sucks if you have to miss a kid's game, but unfortunately that's the reality of a single parent with multiple kids. I can tell you, after my father passed away I spent most weekends living at teammate's houses from 12 years old until I was able to drive so that I could attend my soccer games since my mom had to prioritize my siblings. It sucked, but I understand that she did the best she could and had to lean on her village. Single parenting without a co-parent is hard, but it's 100% doable, it may just take some creativity, prioritization, and sometimes things will get dropped and that's okay too.

[starburst604]

Sept 13, 2024 15:12:44 GMT -5 purplinsky said:

Sept 13, 2024 14:39:46 GMT -5 campermom said:

I know it's easier said than done, and I say this with all the empathy and compassion, it's probably time to start asking for help from teammates parents, friends, neighbors, etc. with some of these non-medical logistics. Practices, games, and part-time jobs are things I would be looking for help with driving so that you can prioritize the kid that has an appointment. I know it sucks if you have to miss a kid's game, but unfortunately that's the reality of a single parent with multiple kids. I can tell you, after my father passed away I spent most weekends living at teammate's houses from 12 years old until I was able to drive so that I could attend my soccer games since my mom had to prioritize my siblings. It sucked, but I understand that she did the best she could and had to lean on her village. Single parenting without a co-parent is hard, but it's 100% doable, it may just take some creativity, prioritization, and sometimes things will get dropped and that's okay too.

I need to start doing this as well, or something like it. While I have parents who would happily get DD to a practice or game, the challenge on a workday when there's an early practice is figuring out how to get her home from school and into the house to get whatever she needs, and then get the ride. The bus drops off at STBX's house so someone would need to get her from school if I can't. I need to find a trustworthy high school student or something who can help us with this. 

People offer to help all the time but I'm so awkward about actually taking them up on it.