Democrats openly talk about replacing Biden

[macmars45]

Jun 29, 2024 18:43:47 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

Maybe we'll get lucky and TFG will pick a VP that does something stupid, like the Howard Dean overly enthusiastic "yeah" that tanked his campaign.

I personally hope tfg keels over of natural causes in October. *crossing all crossables*

[neverfstop]

Jun 30, 2024 13:43:28 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

Jun 29, 2024 18:43:47 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

Maybe we'll get lucky and TFG will pick a VP that does something stupid, like the Howard Dean overly enthusiastic "yeah" that tanked his campaign.

I personally hope tfg keels over of natural causes in October. *crossing all crossables*

If we still have biden as the nominee, we're fucked.... If the GOP had put up any other candidate, they would be trouncing Biden right now.  If he picks a VP that's anything short of a mass murderer or a KKK member, they would be the nominee for the GOP since people start voting in October.  Biden is extremely weak & vulnerable.   The only person he may, just MAY, be able to beat is Trump.  If he's running against anybody else, he will lose. 

[elleblue]

Jun 30, 2024 13:12:33 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

A magical, imaginary ‘other democrat’ or ’other candidate’ almost always looks great compared to a real human, with real history, real baggage and real weaknesses.


Name someone and the polling shifts.

Sitting presidents have an advantage. Especially after crisis. So if Harris had needed to step up a year ago, she’d get that glow.

But as it stands, no actual human is going to seem as shiny to the electorate as ‘someone else’ - because the ‘someone else’ each person imagines is different. And the only people for whom the specific someone else doesn’t matter are already ride or die democrat for whom changing the ticket won’t matter.

Oh yes, the Universally Beloved Unnamed Democrat. I cannot roll my eyes enough. No one can agree on who it should be and stepping over Kamala Harris in favor of someone else right now would be an unmitigated disaster.

[fernweh]

Historian who predicted 9 out of the last 10 presidential elections said it would be a mistake to replace Biden and would likely cost democrats the White House.

www.yahoo.com/news/historian-predicted-9-last-10-134450729.html

[lilac05]

Jun 30, 2024 14:11:54 GMT -5 fernweh said:

Historian who predicted 9 out of the last 10 presidential elections said it would be a mistake to replace Biden and would likely cost democrats the White House.

www.yahoo.com/news/historian-predicted-9-last-10-134450729.html

I just don’t think there’s a clear answer here, though. A lot of polls I’m seeing post debate are looking really bad for Biden. I don’t know of any election where there has been concern about a candidate’s actual ability to do the job, rather than people disagreeing on policies.

I also don’t think we can compare what’s happening today to 1968 when there was no internet and no 24 hour news cycle. If Biden decided on his own to step out of the race and fully support Kamala or another candidate with Kamala continuing as VP, I’d bet a solid 95% of voters would know within 48 hours. That didn’t happen in 1968. Information moves light years faster than it did back then.

Democrats spent too much time talking about the past before the primaries, and lost a lot of potential time because “in the past, when an incumbent is primaried…” instead of looking to the future.

I’m “any blue will do” and will vote for Biden’s administration…but I am still hoping Biden will choose on his own to step back and put his energy, experience, and administration behind someone I’m confident will still have the mental acuity to still be doing the job in 4 years.

[sakoro]

Jun 30, 2024 16:33:39 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Jun 30, 2024 14:11:54 GMT -5 fernweh said:

Historian who predicted 9 out of the last 10 presidential elections said it would be a mistake to replace Biden and would likely cost democrats the White House.

www.yahoo.com/news/historian-predicted-9-last-10-134450729.html

I just don’t think there’s a clear answer here, though. A lot of polls I’m seeing post debate are looking really bad for Biden. I don’t know of any election where there has been concern about a candidate’s actual ability to do the job, rather than people disagreeing on policies.

I also don’t think we can compare what’s happening today to 1968 when there was no internet and no 24 hour news cycle. If Biden decided on his own to step out of the race and fully support Kamala or another candidate with Kamala continuing as VP, I’d bet a solid 95% of voters would know within 48 hours. That didn’t happen in 1968. Information moves light years faster than it did back then.

Democrats spent too much time talking about the past before the primaries, and lost a lot of potential time because “in the past, when an incumbent is primaried…” instead of looking to the future.

I’m “any blue will do” and will vote for Biden’s administration…but I am still hoping Biden will choose on his own to step back and put his energy, experience, and administration behind someone I’m confident will still have the mental acuity to still be doing the job in 4 years.

Agree on all of these points. After the debate, I thought about all of the material the MAGATs could use for television commercials and social media portraying Biden as old and weak.

I will do whatever I have to do to keep the orange menace out of office and prevent his minions from ripping apart democracy and our institutions that provide stability. In 1968, Nixon wasn’t as terrifying as Trump nor was he openly stating that he would deny election results and tear apart democracy. I think Democrats would rally around Harris or whoever the new candidate is.

However, I still have genuine concerns about Biden’s ability to continue to function as president for the next four years, deal with stress from world events, stress from difficult family issues and keep his health. I also worry about a medical event happening between now and the election or some other major fumble. I want to have confidence in my candidate/ president.

Ultimately it’s the party establishment that will apply pressure and make the decision, not me. It’s entirely out of my hands.

[pixy0stix]

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

[neverfstop]

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

I think we are, can be, and should be better than the GOP.  We owe it to the country to put forth the best candidate to do the best job.

Sadly, I don't think that's Biden.  This whole debate was teed up for him to "prove" he was still capable and competent enough to be POTUS.  And he failed miserably.  You can make all the excuses (he had a cold, it was late at night, debating Trump is fighting a losing battle) but  if this was the best he could do, what happens when he meet with international leaders? What happens when he needs to make a complex, nuanced call in the middle of the night?  How's his mental acuity going to be in 5 years?   There's a reason he does basically no press conferences, no real interviews, nothing unscripted from not from a teleprompter.  

Ezra Klein did a follow up podcast and makes some great points. The party's job is to select the best candidates & the Dems have done a great job around the country (congress, Gov) putting up excellent candidates and we pull a mulligan on the most important position.  If you care about all the down ballot races & want to get people interested, excited, and motivated to vote for democrats up & down the ticket, we need a new nominee.   www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylX_uMaX8k  (I can't find a podcast link, but it showed up in mine today)

Biden has done remarkable things while POTUS getting us out of COVID and soft landing the economy.  He has a chance exit with an incredible life and legacy of service, including knowing when it's time to step aside.  It's his hubris to think he's the only one who can beat Trump.  I think it's more likely he's one of the few that could/would LOSE to Trump, given current polling.  We've got pretty high chance of losing the WH, Congress, and SCOTUS for generations if we run Biden.   If  the Dems nominate somebody else, we've got a decent shot of bringing in a whole lot of people who are disinterested in politics because they are tired of the same old thing.  

[pixy0stix]

Biden wasn't elected by the white/rich people who thought they controlled the party. Or the white women who thought we mattered, and it's stuck in the craw of every single person who didn't elect him during that first primary. Since then the Republican party has been spewing bullshit about "he promised one term" and "he's old and mumbly" and we've collectively internalized it.

Biden will be the nominee. The end.

[lilac05]

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

I’ve had many of the same concerns since before the 2020 election, and have shared them on here before. He’s been a good president, in my opinion, largely because of who he has surrounded himself by and his ability to listen to his people and implement his administration’s goals. And that is why he will still have my vote.

But I refuse to be like the Republicans and pretend that he has no faults and that I enthusiastically support *him*. I think that only hurts my/our credibility. In my opinion, if/when he continues to be the nominee, our only hope is to really highlight all of the people in his administration and how being President is largely a team sport. A President alone can only do so much, but they’re supported by an incredibly large group of people who make them what they are. THAT is why I will still vote FOR him and not just “against” Trump…but I will not pretend that I don’t have concerns about his ability to continue going at this pace for another 4 years. They really need to highlight Kamala more and how effective she is/can be at the role, too.

[curbsideprophet]

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

Many people did not want him to run. This is not just one bad day. He has many issues and now you have added ability to do the job on top of those issues.

[curbsideprophet]

Jun 30, 2024 18:41:18 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

I think we are, can be, and should be better than the GOP.  We owe it to the country to put forth the best candidate to do the best job.

Sadly, I don't think that's Biden.  This whole debate was teed up for him to "prove" he was still capable and competent enough to be POTUS.  And he failed miserably.  You can make all the excuses (he had a cold, it was late at night, debating Trump is fighting a losing battle) but  if this was the best he could do, what happens when he meet with international leaders? What happens when he needs to make a complex, nuanced call in the middle of the night?  How's his mental acuity going to be in 5 years?   There's a reason he does basically no press conferences, no real interviews, nothing unscripted from not from a teleprompter.  

Ezra Klein did a follow up podcast and makes some great points. The party's job is to select the best candidates & the Dems have done a great job around the country (congress, Gov) putting up excellent candidates and we pull a mulligan on the most important position.  If you care about all the down ballot races & want to get people interested, excited, and motivated to vote for democrats up & down the ticket, we need a new nominee.   www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylX_uMaX8k  (I can't find a podcast link, but it showed up in mine today)

Biden has done remarkable things while POTUS getting us out of COVID and soft landing the economy.  He has a chance exit with an incredible life and legacy of service, including knowing when it's time to step aside.  It's his hubris to think he's the only one who can beat Trump.  I think it's more likely he's one of the few that could/would LOSE to Trump, given current polling.  We've got pretty high chance of losing the WH, Congress, and SCOTUS for generations if we run Biden.   If  the Dems nominate somebody else, we've got a decent shot of bringing in a whole lot of people who are disinterested in politics because they are tired of the same old thing.  

I agree with your first points. However Biden has been horrible with Covid. I absolutely believe if Trump won a second term and did what Biden has done there would have been outrage. Since it is Biden, people just go along with it. It may end up being his legacy, but not in a good way. Pretending something is over does not make it so. We now have Democrats in multiple states talking about mask bans during a you do you pandemic. Public health is dead. People, including high risk and disabled people, cannot even access safe health care.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 30, 2024 19:02:10 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

Many people did not want him to run. This is not just one bad day. He has many issues and now you have added ability to do the job on top of those issues.

He can't do his job because of his performance on TV? Really? Ok. Guess his whole term is a lie.

[wildrice]

Jun 30, 2024 19:13:17 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:41:18 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I think we are, can be, and should be better than the GOP.  We owe it to the country to put forth the best candidate to do the best job.

Sadly, I don't think that's Biden.  This whole debate was teed up for him to "prove" he was still capable and competent enough to be POTUS.  And he failed miserably.  You can make all the excuses (he had a cold, it was late at night, debating Trump is fighting a losing battle) but  if this was the best he could do, what happens when he meet with international leaders? What happens when he needs to make a complex, nuanced call in the middle of the night?  How's his mental acuity going to be in 5 years?   There's a reason he does basically no press conferences, no real interviews, nothing unscripted from not from a teleprompter.  

Ezra Klein did a follow up podcast and makes some great points. The party's job is to select the best candidates & the Dems have done a great job around the country (congress, Gov) putting up excellent candidates and we pull a mulligan on the most important position.  If you care about all the down ballot races & want to get people interested, excited, and motivated to vote for democrats up & down the ticket, we need a new nominee.   www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylX_uMaX8k  (I can't find a podcast link, but it showed up in mine today)

Biden has done remarkable things while POTUS getting us out of COVID and soft landing the economy.  He has a chance exit with an incredible life and legacy of service, including knowing when it's time to step aside.  It's his hubris to think he's the only one who can beat Trump.  I think it's more likely he's one of the few that could/would LOSE to Trump, given current polling.  We've got pretty high chance of losing the WH, Congress, and SCOTUS for generations if we run Biden.   If  the Dems nominate somebody else, we've got a decent shot of bringing in a whole lot of people who are disinterested in politics because they are tired of the same old thing.  

I agree with your first points. However Biden has been horrible with Covid. I absolutely believe if Trump won a second term and did what Biden has done there would have been outrage. Since it is Biden, people just go along with it. It may end up being his legacy, but not in a good way. Pretending something is over does not make it so. We now have Democrats in multiple states talking about mask bans during a you do you pandemic. Public health is dead. People, including high risk and disabled people, cannot even access safe health care.

I don't get this impression that COVID is a top concern for the vast majority of people right now, though. I really don't think this will have an impact on the election - most people have gladly moved on from COVID whether that's smart or fair or not.

I really think it's democrat vs Trump right now and it kind of doesn't matter who is the Democrat. That's oversimplifying but the people who are going to show up to vote this cycle will do it if Biden is the candidate. Perhaps we could have put in someone better earlier but at this point nobody is going to mobilize or excite voters. They will either hate Trump and value Democrat policies (and democracy) enough to show up, or they will stay home. I do think there will be overall low turnout for either party.

[sonrisa]

Jun 30, 2024 18:47:32 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Biden wasn't elected by the white/rich people who thought they controlled the party.

Sure he was. They loved him. There were other candidates they toyed with (the occasional Yang or Buttigeg enthusiast), but Biden was just fine to toe the line and not rock the boat

It was Warren who had them running scared because they knew she'd hold them accountable. They worked damn hard to keep her out and succeeded. 

[cous0226]

I think people have short memories and I hope this too shall pass. I was watching the news on Friday and now the media is just obsessed with covering Biden’s every move and that won’t be helpful.

Dems are not organized to switch things up. Let’s remember most of these people were on a stage against Biden and he beat all of them. The country wanted Biden.

[underwaterrhymes]

OMG, people. Biden is doing the job RIGHT NOW. He hasn’t been perfect obviously, but to question his ability to do the job when he is literally doing it right now is wild to me.

[neverfstop]

Jul 1, 2024 4:00:15 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I think people have short memories and I hope this too shall pass. I was watching the news on Friday and now the media is just obsessed with covering Biden’s every move and that won’t be helpful.

Dems are not organized to switch things up. Let’s remember most of these people were on a stage against Biden and he beat all of them. The country wanted Biden.

This year or in 2020??


This year, I think this is where we see things differently....all the polling showed the opposite.  Many voices were decrying the Trump v Biden rematch.  Nobody really challenged Biden in the primaries. The very very few people who showed up to vote in the handful of early states didn't really have much of a choice on the ballot. 

[underwaterrhymes]

Debates don’t lose elections. If Biden loses it will be because of how he has handled Israel and Palestine.

[cous0226]

Jul 1, 2024 5:59:09 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jul 1, 2024 4:00:15 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I think people have short memories and I hope this too shall pass. I was watching the news on Friday and now the media is just obsessed with covering Biden’s every move and that won’t be helpful.

Dems are not organized to switch things up. Let’s remember most of these people were on a stage against Biden and he beat all of them. The country wanted Biden.

This year or in 2020??


This year, I think this is where we see things differently....all the polling showed the opposite.  Many voices were decrying the Trump v Biden rematch.  Nobody really challenged Biden in the primaries. The very very few people who showed up to vote in the handful of early states didn't really have much of a choice on the ballot. 

2020 - there were so many on the stage with him and fuckin Bernie and his nonsense. Sometimes we create our own problems.

[sonrisa]

Jul 1, 2024 6:00:24 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Debates don’t lose elections. If Biden loses it will be because of how he has handled Israel and Palestine.

This is both true and a failing strategy. It’s the quintessential example of somewhere biden is failing, but trump will do worse if given the chance. It’s like a French royalist helping Robspierre over The Girondins during the reign of terror. if netenyahu next starts bombing the West Bank, trump will cheer him on.

[neverfstop]

Jul 1, 2024 5:58:43 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

OMG, people. Biden is doing the job RIGHT NOW. He hasn’t been perfect obviously, but to question his ability to do the job when he is literally doing it right now is wild to me.

But not really.....he's being propped up a la "weekend a bernies" by his staff and administration. THEY are doing a great job of keeping the façade alive as well as governing.  They don't allow him to have free discussion (interviews, press conferences).  They only schedule events for mornings & afternoons. They script where & when he walks any place so as to minimize tripping hazards.  Part of the job is selling your self and your agenda and ideas.  You have to lead & want people to follow you and believe in you and your ideas.  Just because he's doing a passable job at his job right now doesn't mean he will be able to do that in another 4.5 years.  

Having an open convention is not a failure- it's how the party worked for many decades.  The current primary system is a failure- everybody hates it & it's alienating to the vast majority of the voters. It would give candidates time and space to debate, it would ignite interest and enthusiasm for the  Dems and the whole race.  I'd give anything to see Kamala or Pete debate Trump.  We can show we are a party with a young, fresh new faces & energy+ideas to move the country forward.  

[basilosaurus]

Jul 1, 2024 7:01:39 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jul 1, 2024 6:00:24 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Debates don’t lose elections. If Biden loses it will be because of how he has handled Israel and Palestine.

This is both true and a failing strategy. It’s the quintessential example of somewhere biden is failing, but trump will do worse if given the chance. It’s like a French royalist helping Robspierre over The Girondins during the reign of terror. if netenyahu next starts bombing the West Bank, trump will cheer him on.

I agree there's no winning strategy on this. I think Biden is very and also think drumpf would be far worse.

Biden isn't perfect. There is probably no one viable and progressive enough for me. I also had concerns about Clinton but gladly canvassed for her. The orange menace is so terrible I will do everything to go against him.

But, don't believe the gop lies that biden is not doing a good job. Inflation is near historic lows. It's corporate greed driving profits. Tax free thanks to tfg. 

Not that a debate matters to anyone willing to vote.

My vote doesn't even count for anything, and I will still do all the paperwork that is required. This includes a dimplomatic courier package to count it, even if it doesn't affect anything with our state based system (my vote counts as abroad, not in any state). This is how much I fear/hate tfg. He's so awful there's nothing that Biden could do that would make me not vote for him. I want my vote counted in the overall.

[kadams767]

Jun 30, 2024 18:41:18 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:17:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Our guy has one bad day and people want to axe him. Their guy has 8 years of serious flubs and gibberish and they still back him.

We deserve to lose if this is the reaction to one bad tv appearance.

I think we are, can be, and should be better than the GOP.  We owe it to the country to put forth the best candidate to do the best job.

Sadly, I don't think that's Biden.  This whole debate was teed up for him to "prove" he was still capable and competent enough to be POTUS.  And he failed miserably.  You can make all the excuses (he had a cold, it was late at night, debating Trump is fighting a losing battle) but  if this was the best he could do, what happens when he meet with international leaders? What happens when he needs to make a complex, nuanced call in the middle of the night?  How's his mental acuity going to be in 5 years?   There's a reason he does basically no press conferences, no real interviews, nothing unscripted from not from a teleprompter.  

Ezra Klein did a follow up podcast and makes some great points. The party's job is to select the best candidates & the Dems have done a great job around the country (congress, Gov) putting up excellent candidates and we pull a mulligan on the most important position.  If you care about all the down ballot races & want to get people interested, excited, and motivated to vote for democrats up & down the ticket, we need a new nominee.   www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylX_uMaX8k  (I can't find a podcast link, but it showed up in mine today)

Sorry, but I disagree with this.  Trying to be better than the GOP and not use their playbook has gotten us fucked.  They suck, but if they can all somehow rally and unify around a human trash can like Trump, we can get it together and unify around Biden.  Like, the two options are not even remotely close, and this idea that Biden is incompetent is so misguided.  Disagreeing with policy and decisions are one thing, but he isn’t incompetent.  If the Dems nominate someone else, I don’t think they have a chance.  I think people are wearing some seriously rose-colored glasses if they truly believe there is some super secret progressive candidate that can pull everyone together and win this year.  And I say this as a NY democrat that lives in a serious blue bubble.  That momentum is not there.  

[sonrisa]

Honestly, Biden’s frail appearance proves he’s doing the job and better than Trump did. The office ages you rapidly if you do what is required of the job. Trump never did.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 1, 2024 0:14:09 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:47:32 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Biden wasn't elected by the white/rich people who thought they controlled the party.

Sure he was. They loved him. There were other candidates they toyed with (the occasional Yang or Buttigeg enthusiast), but Biden was just fine to toe the line and not rock the boat

It was Warren who had them running scared because they knew she'd hold them accountable. They worked damn hard to keep her out and succeeded. 

Bullshit. Black women and the black community elected him during the primaries. Or do you want to minimize their role in the party?

[sonrisa]

Jul 1, 2024 9:33:08 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 1, 2024 0:14:09 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Sure he was. They loved him. There were other candidates they toyed with (the occasional Yang or Buttigeg enthusiast), but Biden was just fine to toe the line and not rock the boat

It was Warren who had them running scared because they knew she'd hold them accountable. They worked damn hard to keep her out and succeeded. 

Bullshit. Black women and the black community elected him during the primaries. Or do you want to minimize their role in the party?

I think we are using ‘elected by’ in different ways.

You mean it as ‘the driving cultural force behind his candidacy’ and i’m using it as “voted for him and - in the case of those big money interests - threw a ton of money behind.”

You implied that those groups didn’t want him in office and they resented his selection. Their money tells a very different story. That doesn’t mean they were the driving factor in his selection, but he was the candidate they backed and rallied behind.

[wanderingback]

FWIW the Black people in my generation between ages 30-50 definitely aren’t happy with Biden in particular regarding abortion messaging and Palestine. So it’s been a rough couple of years. But of course we’ll vote for him, although I do know a couple of Black friends who say they don’t vote in general because of how fucked up the candidates are.

Now my parents generation of Black folks, as far as I can tell they’re happy with Biden and definitely got behind him especially since he was Obama’s VP. I don’t know if the Black community specifically would’ve been as excited about him if he wasn’t previously Obama’s VP.

But yes, in general the Black community does the "right" thing and gets in line and votes for the Democratic nominee. It will be interesting to see if there are any differences this election.

[lilac05]

Jul 1, 2024 8:12:54 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jun 30, 2024 18:41:18 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I think we are, can be, and should be better than the GOP.  We owe it to the country to put forth the best candidate to do the best job.

Sadly, I don't think that's Biden.  This whole debate was teed up for him to "prove" he was still capable and competent enough to be POTUS.  And he failed miserably.  You can make all the excuses (he had a cold, it was late at night, debating Trump is fighting a losing battle) but  if this was the best he could do, what happens when he meet with international leaders? What happens when he needs to make a complex, nuanced call in the middle of the night?  How's his mental acuity going to be in 5 years?   There's a reason he does basically no press conferences, no real interviews, nothing unscripted from not from a teleprompter.  

Ezra Klein did a follow up podcast and makes some great points. The party's job is to select the best candidates & the Dems have done a great job around the country (congress, Gov) putting up excellent candidates and we pull a mulligan on the most important position.  If you care about all the down ballot races & want to get people interested, excited, and motivated to vote for democrats up & down the ticket, we need a new nominee.   www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylX_uMaX8k  (I can't find a podcast link, but it showed up in mine today)

Sorry, but I disagree with this.  Trying to be better than the GOP and not use their playbook has gotten us fucked.  They suck, but if they can all somehow rally and unify around a human trash can like Trump, we can get it together and unify around Biden.  Like, the two options are not even remotely close, and this idea that Biden is incompetent is so misguided.  Disagreeing with policy and decisions are one thing, but he isn’t incompetent.  If the Dems nominate someone else, I don’t think they have a chance.  I think people are wearing some seriously rose-colored glasses if they truly believe there is some super secret progressive candidate that can pull everyone together and win this year.  And I say this as a NY democrat that lives in a serious blue bubble.  That momentum is not there.  

I’ve got my rose colored glasses on, and I’m OK with that. I think that anything is possible. And saying, “The Republicans do it, so we should, too” is not something I want to aspire to. We can do better.

And again, I think he’s been good. I think he’s doing fine. But I think anyone paying attention and truly looking at things critically should be able to see why people have concerns about what things will look like in 2027 while he’s still president. (Which is why I think they really need to hit the gas on highlighting his whole administration.)

My perspective comes from being in a very purple area. No, I don’t think that a new candidate would get a lot of momentum in places that are already solidly blue because those places will be blue no matter what…and they closed the door on a different option for President the moment Biden said he would run. But in our area, I know a LOT of people, Republicans and Democrats, who would be thrilled with a ticket that looks different than it does today. I think swing states could be really impacted by it. I honestly think that if anything changed on the ballot before Election Day, the non-Biden/Trump candidate would win, regardless of party.

We can agree to disagree, and that’s OK. But I don’t think it’s wise in 2024 to make decisions on what has/hasn’t worked in the past. This is a completely different situation than ever in the past. As per usual these days, we are in unprecedented times.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 1, 2024 9:42:21 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jul 1, 2024 9:33:08 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Bullshit. Black women and the black community elected him during the primaries. Or do you want to minimize their role in the party?

I think we are using ‘elected by’ in different ways.

You mean it as ‘the driving cultural force behind his candidacy’ and i’m using it as “voted for him and - in the case of those big money interests - threw a ton of money behind.”

You implied that those groups didn’t want him in office and they resented his selection. Their money tells a very different story. That doesn’t mean they were the driving factor in his selection, but he was the candidate they backed and rallied behind.

No, I'm using it correctly. Biden wasn't the chosen candidate in the primaries. He started campaigning later in the primary season and wasn't expected to do much. Then the black community saved us by choosing the establishment guy, the guy who wasn't flashy, the guy that moderates would vote for. The rest of us fell into line. I can dig up the articles from the time that talks about his nomination.

Then during the actual election, Biden carried the black vote, specifically in swing states that he would have lost without it.

Meanwhile, white women were voting for Trump.