Kamala's campaign

[sent]

fryjack2 , I'm sorry for all that's happening in Palestine.

It dawned on me in the past 2 years that we focus so much in school on learning the European version of WWII. We were learning about the Holocaust in middle school. In high school, I remember thinking "Why was it called a World War when most of it was fought in Europe and then maybe there was that little bit over in Japan?" That's 80+ years of history we need to re-write and re-teach. Now I realize that we were implicitly being taught that the “world” consisted of Europeans and Americans. The rest of the modern countries, continents and cultures out there weren’t worthy of our efforts.

Kamala has to be a typical politician right now and can't come out and say anything polarizing against Israel given all the money and power at stake in the US. I understand that makes your community feel ignored and very hurt. I do think however she represents “hope" in flipping the narrative AFTER she wins. I'm holding on to hope that she is the one who will push us to start having these uncomfortable conversations about all of us "others" who live here besides white males that have been directing the narrative since WWII.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just stating the thoughts that go through my head on all of this as a non-white minority.

[sent]

I listened to the Call Her Daddy interview earlier tonight and watched Colbert yesterday. She had some repeated talking points on both shows. She made some good points on the podcast. The whole time I was thinking "who is the demographic that listens to this show and is she able to change some minds to vote in her favor? Because everything she's saying is just making too much sense when it comes to women's bodily autonomy."

[fernweh]

I have stayed out of the Palestine discussion because I didn’t feel like it was my place to say anything. However I was listening to a Pod Save America episode with Jen Psaki and she made a very good point that I hadn’t thought of.

She said we have a team of people overseas actively trying to negotiate a ceasefire. If the VP who has a very good chance of being the president in a few months comes out with a completely different stance (she noted that she hasn’t talked to her and has no idea what her stance is other than what she has said publicly) then the current president it could make any progress they have made fall apart.

I honestly hadn’t thought of it that way and maybe that’s not the case but it’s worth considering.

[fryjack2]

Oct 11, 2024 5:06:14 GMT -5 fernweh said:

I have stayed out of the Palestine discussion because I didn’t feel like it was my place to say anything. However I was listening to a Pod Save America episode with Jen Psaki and she made a very good point that I hadn’t thought of.

She said we have a team of people overseas actively trying to negotiate a ceasefire. If the VP who has a very good chance of being the president in a few months comes out with a completely different stance (she noted that she hasn’t talked to her and has no idea what her stance is other than what she has said publicly) then the current president it could make any progress they have made fall apart.

I honestly hadn’t thought of it that way and maybe that’s not the case but it’s worth considering.

The US has voted against a ceasefire every single time it’s been presented at the UN. Netanyahu has said he’s not stopping the destruction anytime soon and we are providing him with the weapons he is using to destroy everything.

I hope Kamala would change her tune when elected, but I imagine the influence of money, diplomatic relationships we know nothing about, and her Jewish husband would be a big factor in if she does or not.

I know my posts are a downer in this thread. I liked Kamala until a year ago. I’m trying to force myself to see the first through the trees. I’m sure I’ll get there by Election Day. I’m
Just not there yet.

[lilac05]

fryjack2, It’s totally understandable that you’re “not there yet.” You have very valid reasons!

One thing I’d love to see Democrats (& Republicans, obviously) move away from is the mentality that if you’re not 100% on board with everything a candidate says, then you’re just helping Trump. We NEED people to stand up and voice their concerns about issues that are important to them. We need to be able to have nuanced & hard discussions about some things. We need people to know that there’s still a place for them in the party, even if they don’t 100% align. (Maybe even especially if they don’t 100% align.) Democrats are often quick to attack when someone voices dissent (look at the whole post-debate Biden discussions). We need to be open to diversity of thought at the individual level. That’s where Republicans have Democrats beat. They’ll accept anyone who is willing to check the box next to the R. (Proof: The felon on their ticket.)

I think Kamala has done a great job of this on the issue of abortion. She backed away from just saying, “My body, my choice, period. End of discussion.” And while no doubt she still believes that, she has widened the tent a little to focus on how a person’s healthcare decisions need to be between them and their doctor, and the government has no place in that. That small change in messaging has opened the door to some people who are anti-abortion, but recognize it’s not their place to make that decision for others. (In other words, they THINK they’re “pro-life”…but they’re actually “pro-choice”, even if they’ll never admit it in those words.) I’ve seen it happen with quite a few friends from our previous church. The firm “my body, my choice” messaging was an automatic “no” for them. The “government doesn’t need to be making my healthcare decisions” is acceptable to them. (Both pro-choice, different way of doing the messaging, and then different results.)

[shauni27]

Oct 11, 2024 7:13:31 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Oct 11, 2024 5:06:14 GMT -5 fernweh said:

I have stayed out of the Palestine discussion because I didn’t feel like it was my place to say anything. However I was listening to a Pod Save America episode with Jen Psaki and she made a very good point that I hadn’t thought of.

She said we have a team of people overseas actively trying to negotiate a ceasefire. If the VP who has a very good chance of being the president in a few months comes out with a completely different stance (she noted that she hasn’t talked to her and has no idea what her stance is other than what she has said publicly) then the current president it could make any progress they have made fall apart.

I honestly hadn’t thought of it that way and maybe that’s not the case but it’s worth considering.

I know my posts are a downer in this thread. I liked Kamala until a year ago. I’m trying to force myself to see the first through the trees. I’m sure I’ll get there by Election Day. I’m
Just not there yet.

Just wanted to send you internet support. You are allowed to be a downer; it is an overwhelming and heartbreaking situation.  

[kitty]

The article about Woodward’s new book (linked in the Putin covid test thread) also has excerpts about the wars we currently are involved in and paints Kamala as not having any significant power as VP. My DH said it made him feel better about voting for her because there’s at least a chance she would shift course compared to Biden.

‘“War” offers several snapshots of Harris, always in a supporting role to Biden and hardly determining foreign policy herself.
The book recounts how Harris sought to spur French President Emmanuel Macron into action in the fall of 2021, in preparation for what the U.S. intelligence community indicated would be a significant Russian military action against Ukraine. So, too, the vice president made her case to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at the Munich Security Conference in February 2022, going so far as to press him to develop a succession plan ensuring stability “if you’re captured or killed,” as she put it.
And the book reveals how her forceful public tone following a meeting in July with Netanyahu — pledging that she would “not be silent” about Palestinian suffering — contrasted with her more amicable approach in private. The difference, according to Woodward, infuriated Netanyahu, who was taken aback by her public remarks.
From the Israeli viewpoint, however, Harris had little responsibility for the administration’s approach to the conflict.
“Until now, I didn’t feel that Vice President Harris had any impact on our issues,” Michael Herzog, the Israeli ambassador in Washington, is quoted as saying about the period before Harris replaced Biden on the ticket. “She was in the room, but she never had an impact.”’

[ellipses84]

Oct 10, 2024 22:23:35 GMT -5 sent said:

I listened to the Call Her Daddy interview earlier tonight and watched Colbert yesterday. She had some repeated talking points on both shows. She made some good points on the podcast. The whole time I was thinking "who is the demographic that listens to this show and is she able to change some minds to vote in her favor? Because everything she's saying is just making too much sense when it comes to women's bodily autonomy."

I think it’s people who don’t pay attention to politics. Getting them to realize what is at stake in this election and go vote! I saw some stats yesterday and I think Alex’s listeners were like 40% D, 25% R and the rest other, which shows all the negative comments were trolls, bots or just the loud minority of Rs. She lost around 5k followers and gained way more from people who never heard her podcast until that interview.

If Kamala’s changing any R minds, it’s people who grew up pro-life like the host where that’s all they ever knew and they are having the same 💡 moment she did that pro choice doesn’t mean you personally have to get an abortion, it just means the Government isn’t banning it, a woman’s healthcare decisions are between her and her Dr, and understanding the deadly consequences of RvW being overturned.

[lilac05]

Oct 11, 2024 9:13:47 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Oct 10, 2024 22:23:35 GMT -5 sent said:

I listened to the Call Her Daddy interview earlier tonight and watched Colbert yesterday. She had some repeated talking points on both shows. She made some good points on the podcast. The whole time I was thinking "who is the demographic that listens to this show and is she able to change some minds to vote in her favor? Because everything she's saying is just making too much sense when it comes to women's bodily autonomy."

I think it’s people who don’t pay attention to politics. Getting them to realize what is at stake in this election and go vote! I saw some stats yesterday and I think Alex’s listeners were like 40% D, 25% R and the rest other, which shows all the negative comments were trolls, bots or just the loud minority of Rs. She lost around 5k followers and gained way more from people who never heard her podcast until that interview.

If Kamala’s changing any R minds, it’s people who grew up pro-life like the host where that’s all they ever knew and they are having the same 💡 moment she did that pro choice doesn’t mean you personally have to get an abortion, it just means the Government isn’t banning it, a woman’s healthcare decisions are between her and her Dr, and understanding the deadly consequences of RvW being overturned.

That’s really where I think she could make some real progress for change, if she had the time. People can be anti-abortion for themselves and even wish that abortions never needed to happen…but STILL be pro-choice. I love how she’s moved away from the back and forth of “when does it become a baby” because no one is going to change their minds on that. But “who do you want making YOUR healthcare decisions” and sharing the stories of brave women willing to share makes a difference. I wish she’d talk more about how democrats’ policies to increase support AFTER birth actually leads to a reduction of abortions in the first place. That’s actually how I first started to see things differently many years ago. I started to see if I wanted fewer pregnancies terminated “simply” because people felt they couldn’t afford it, we needed a way to fix THAT problem. If the goal is fewer abortions, banning it is actually LESS effective. (And I understand for MANY people, the answer is that the number shouldn’t matter…women choose, period. I totally get that. I just know that’s a non-starter of a conversation for people who were raised like I was.)

[stuffandthings]

Oct 11, 2024 7:13:31 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Oct 11, 2024 5:06:14 GMT -5 fernweh said:

I have stayed out of the Palestine discussion because I didn’t feel like it was my place to say anything. However I was listening to a Pod Save America episode with Jen Psaki and she made a very good point that I hadn’t thought of.

She said we have a team of people overseas actively trying to negotiate a ceasefire. If the VP who has a very good chance of being the president in a few months comes out with a completely different stance (she noted that she hasn’t talked to her and has no idea what her stance is other than what she has said publicly) then the current president it could make any progress they have made fall apart.

I honestly hadn’t thought of it that way and maybe that’s not the case but it’s worth considering.

The US has voted against a ceasefire every single time it’s been presented at the UN. Netanyahu has said he’s not stopping the destruction anytime soon and we are providing him with the weapons he is using to destroy everything.

I hope Kamala would change her tune when elected, but I imagine the influence of money, diplomatic relationships we know nothing about, and her Jewish husband would be a big factor in if she does or not.

I know my posts are a downer in this thread. I liked Kamala until a year ago. I’m trying to force myself to see the first through the trees. I’m sure I’ll get there by Election Day. I’m
Just not there yet.

Not a downer, at all.

@@@@@@@@@

And know that, in the event that you do get there by Nov. 5th, as the parent of a nonbinary kiddo who is terrified of Trump, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. <3

[lust2hart]

stuffandthings, I see that you're a fairly new poster so you might not be aware of this - On this board (CE&P specifically), we ask people to put an @ symbol before posts related to their kids. This started several years ago when some of our regular posters had some trauma around getting pregnant and being parents, and the idea was that this could be a place for them to go where they didn't have "kid stuff" in their faces all the time. The @ serves as a warning of "kid talk ahead - skip over if you need to." Could you please go back into your recent posts where you've talked about your kid and add @s?

[stuffandthings]

Oct 11, 2024 13:42:56 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

stuffandthings , I see that you're a fairly new poster so you might not be aware of this - On this board (CE&P specifically), we ask people to put an @ symbol before posts related to their kids. This started several years ago when some of our regular posters had some trauma around getting pregnant and being parents, and the idea was that this could be a place for them to go where they didn't have "kid stuff" in their faces all the time. The @ serves as a warning of "kid talk ahead - skip over if you need to." Could you please go back into your recent posts where you've talked about your kid and add @s?

No, you're giving me too much benefit of the doubt here--I did already know that and I just plain forgot. I apologize and will go back and fix it.

[hermione]

The fact that Harris’ campaign cut a response ad so quickly is amazing. Also, how fucking stupid is TFG to say this IN DETROIT.

www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/10/11/harris-campaign-spotlights-trumps-jab-at-detroit-in-new-ad/75631191007/

[beetea]

Oct 10, 2024 19:58:27 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Oct 10, 2024 16:53:34 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I read a long time ago that if you are not inclined towards one candidate or the other, that you should vote for the candidate that you have the most hope that you can convince to see your side of the issue.

There is no changing Trump. He is, after all, the president that issued *several* executive orders banning travel from Muslim countries as his first acts of office. Project 2025 will cut humanitarian aid to Gaza and the West Bank. Trump himself has said he will authorize use of force against Palestinian protesters.

I have anarchist friends that every once in a while post that voting for Harris is still voting for genocide. I really wonder if they, much like the group of people who say they felt safer with Trump, paid attention to *everything* that Trump tried to do during his presidency. Much of which was blocked immediately by the courts. I also wonder if they have paid attention to the court system, because unlike before the courts lean heavily towards letting Trump run with his vision.

All that aside, your vote is your vote. Do with it what you will.

ETA: In case anyone needs a refresher course, this is what Trump did to Human and Civil rights: civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/

I'm sure I could dig more and find all the environmental, etc. shit he passed.

Thank you for this.  I worry though that because she is married to a Jewish man, and has been so vocal about her determination to not change or back down on the US stance, that nothing will convince the WH to change anything when it comes to Israel. I know that diplomacy is a lot more nuanced than any regular person knows.  Maybe once she gets elected, or the Middle East erupts in a bigger war no one wants, she will change her tune? 

I know that I will most likely end up casting a vote for Harris, but I will feel so torn in doing so because of that one issue that's so important to me. 

I just want to say how much I appreciate how thoughtful you're being with your vote. I can't imagine how difficult and painful this is for you. ❤️

[4speedy]

There’s a local story here in metro Detroit suburbs that I fear will be picked up and will be twisted into something bad.

Two men posing as utility workers pretended to be looking for a gas leak and gained entry into an elderly couples home. The couple owned a jewelry store and it is thought the “utility workers” were looking for cash. They killed the husband before searching the house. They both got away.

Yesterday, our sheriff’s dept. FB page posted “The Hispanic suspect was apprehended in Louisiana. Second suspect still at large.”

I am waiting for this to get picked up as “Illegal immigrant” commits murder. So far I don’t think it’s been picked up nationally, it just happened on Friday. It has not yet been released if the apprehended suspect is a U.S. citizen, legal immigrant, illegal immigrant, or any other status. But I just KNOW the MAGAts will pick this up and run with it.

[orval]

Oct 13, 2024 9:53:01 GMT -5 4speedy said:

There’s a local story here in metro Detroit suburbs that I fear will be picked up and will be twisted into something bad.

Two men posing as utility workers pretended to be looking for a gas leak and gained entry into an elderly couples home. The couple owned a jewelry store and it is thought the “utility workers” were looking for cash. They killed the husband before searching the house. They both got away.

Yesterday, our sheriff’s dept. FB page posted “The Hispanic suspect was apprehended in Louisiana. Second suspect still at large.”

I am waiting for this to get picked up as “Illegal immigrant” commits murder. So far I don’t think it’s been picked up nationally, it just happened on Friday. It has not yet been released if the apprehended suspect is a U.S. citizen, legal immigrant, illegal immigrant, or any other status. But I just KNOW the MAGAts will pick this up and run with it.

This is national news and I don't know how you can twist this into something NOT bad.  It is horrifying!  What a strange thing to say.

[4speedy]

Oct 13, 2024 10:21:17 GMT -5 orval said:

Oct 13, 2024 9:53:01 GMT -5 4speedy said:

There’s a local story here in metro Detroit suburbs that I fear will be picked up and will be twisted into something bad.

Two men posing as utility workers pretended to be looking for a gas leak and gained entry into an elderly couples home. The couple owned a jewelry store and it is thought the “utility workers” were looking for cash. They killed the husband before searching the house. They both got away.

Yesterday, our sheriff’s dept. FB page posted “The Hispanic suspect was apprehended in Louisiana. Second suspect still at large.”

I am waiting for this to get picked up as “Illegal immigrant” commits murder. So far I don’t think it’s been picked up nationally, it just happened on Friday. It has not yet been released if the apprehended suspect is a U.S. citizen, legal immigrant, illegal immigrant, or any other status. But I just KNOW the MAGAts will pick this up and run with it.

This is national news and I don't know how you can twist this into something NOT bad.  It is horrifying!  What a strange thing to say.

Yes, I agree, this is a horrific story.  However, as this is a thread specifically about politics and the campaign, my comment relates to it being twisted into an immigration story, much like Haitians eating pets.  I’m not sure why that is a strange idea, given today’s climate.

[sonrisa]

Oct 13, 2024 10:21:17 GMT -5 orval said:

Oct 13, 2024 9:53:01 GMT -5 4speedy said:

There’s a local story here in metro Detroit suburbs that I fear will be picked up and will be twisted into something bad.

Two men posing as utility workers pretended to be looking for a gas leak and gained entry into an elderly couples home. The couple owned a jewelry store and it is thought the “utility workers” were looking for cash. They killed the husband before searching the house. They both got away.

Yesterday, our sheriff’s dept. FB page posted “The Hispanic suspect was apprehended in Louisiana. Second suspect still at large.”

I am waiting for this to get picked up as “Illegal immigrant” commits murder. So far I don’t think it’s been picked up nationally, it just happened on Friday. It has not yet been released if the apprehended suspect is a U.S. citizen, legal immigrant, illegal immigrant, or any other status. But I just KNOW the MAGAts will pick this up and run with it.

This is national news and I don't know how you can twist this into something NOT bad.  It is horrifying!  What a strange thing to say.

Of course it's terrible. It also isn't the first time people have posed as utility workers to commit crimes. It has nothing to do with race, ethnicity nor nation of origin. 

[fernweh]

Oct 13, 2024 10:57:55 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Oct 13, 2024 10:21:17 GMT -5 orval said:

This is national news and I don't know how you can twist this into something NOT bad.  It is horrifying!  What a strange thing to say.

Of course it's terrible. It also isn't the first time people have posed as utility workers to commit crimes. It has nothing to do with race, ethnicity nor nation of origin. 

It doesn’t have anything to do with race but that doesn’t mean Trump won’t try to say it does. It’s local news to me but the articles I’ve read about it online are full of ‘probably illegal’ ‘DTE DEI hire’ ‘this is a direct result of Kamala’s open border’ I even saw a few nasty ones about the man who was killed because his name was Huessin. Fact of the matter is republicans are going to twist into a country of origin story which is what she was saying she is afraid will happen.

[4speedy]

Oct 13, 2024 12:18:30 GMT -5 fernweh said:

Oct 13, 2024 10:57:55 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Of course it's terrible. It also isn't the first time people have posed as utility workers to commit crimes. It has nothing to do with race, ethnicity nor nation of origin. 

It doesn’t have anything to do with race but that doesn’t mean Trump won’t try to say it does. It’s local news to me but the articles I’ve read about it online are full of ‘probably illegal’ ‘DTE DEI hire’ ‘this is a direct result of Kamala’s open border’ I even saw a few nasty ones about the man who was killed because his name was Huessin. Fact of the matter is republicans are going to twist into a country of origin story which is what she was saying she is afraid will happen.

I think Sonrisa was saying the same thing as you.  

[Jalapeñomel]

My father is convinced that Trump will win by a landslide. This is what the right/Fox is projecting. I think it’s wild how vastly different he sees it. And of course believes if Trump loses, it’s because the left cheated.

[elleblue]

Oct 13, 2024 13:51:57 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

My father is convinced that Trump will win by a landslide. This is what the right/Fox is projecting. I think it’s wild how vastly different he sees it. And of course believes if Trump loses, it’s because the left cheated.

That's what they're doing, they're prepping their people to believe there's no way he can lose and if he does, it's 100% stolen. I think we're in for a really rocky time between now and January 20th.

[sonrisa]

Oct 13, 2024 14:51:30 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Oct 13, 2024 13:51:57 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

My father is convinced that Trump will win by a landslide. This is what the right/Fox is projecting. I think it’s wild how vastly different he sees it. And of course believes if Trump loses, it’s because the left cheated.

That's what they're doing, they're prepping their people to believe there's no way he can lose and if he does, it's 100% stolen. I think we're in for a really rocky time between now and January 20th.

And that is best case scenario .

option 2 is we are in for rocky times from Jan 20h through 2029.

[sakoro]

I’ve been listening to PodSaveAmerica and they’ve had Obama’s campaign manager, David Plouffle who believes that the polls are worse at predicting turnout than years past. We know that there are a good number of independents/ centrist republicans who are leaning towards Kamala Harris but may or may not turn out.

Who knows what the results will be the week of the election?!. I’m choosing to be optimistic. I don’t see how Trump’s self-absorbed babble will generate grassroots turnout — e.g. motivate people to drive other people to polls, knock on doors, text reminders, let alone give up time to vote on a Tuesday.

[elleblue]

Oct 13, 2024 15:01:27 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Oct 13, 2024 14:51:30 GMT -5 elleblue said:

That's what they're doing, they're prepping their people to believe there's no way he can lose and if he does, it's 100% stolen. I think we're in for a really rocky time between now and January 20th.

And that is best case scenario .

option 2 is we are in for rocky times from Jan 20h through 2029.

True, but I can only contemplate the potential upheaval in the immediate future at the moment.

[laladypoet]

Oct 13, 2024 10:42:38 GMT -5 4speedy said:

Oct 13, 2024 10:21:17 GMT -5 orval said:

This is national news and I don't know how you can twist this into something NOT bad.  It is horrifying!  What a strange thing to say.

Yes, I agree, this is a horrific story.  However, as this is a thread specifically about politics and the campaign, my comment relates to it being twisted into an immigration story, much like Haitians eating pets.  I’m not sure why that is a strange idea, given today’s climate.

I completely understand what you're saying. people are being obtuse. wtf.

[sparty04]

Oct 14, 2024 8:39:31 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

Oct 13, 2024 10:42:38 GMT -5 4speedy said:

Yes, I agree, this is a horrific story.  However, as this is a thread specifically about politics and the campaign, my comment relates to it being twisted into an immigration story, much like Haitians eating pets.  I’m not sure why that is a strange idea, given today’s climate.

I completely understand what you're saying. people are being obtuse. wtf.

I understand what you're saying. There's also the "transnational gangs" that are breaking into homes that the sheriff has been pushing for a year or so

[laladypoet]

it'll be "Illegals are coming over and dressing as utility workers and killing the elderly and Biden's not doing anything about it!"

[Jalapeñomel]

Someone is stealing all the Harris/Anti Trump signs in our county.

[fernweh]

Harris will be doing a Fox News interview. I’ll nervous for her on this one. I hope she kills it.