Sd saga continues

[StormyDixon]

Mar 31, 2013 14:30:55 GMT -5 kooshball said:

This whole thread confuses me. As a stepmom, I can't imagine trying to force my stepkids to be some sort of religion. Are the wedding vows to raise them catholic YOUR wedding vows or his and his first wife (if they were married?). I don't see why your wedding vows should effect your stepkids.

I also never realized there was so much drama about which church to pick. Maybe I should force my stepkids to pick my religion... atheism might be the way to go.

I am not the one forcing it, my husband is, I am just trying to support him and keep communication open between him and sd, since I am the only one she will speak to

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2013 14:33:30 GMT -5 StormyDixon said:

Mar 31, 2013 14:30:55 GMT -5 kooshball said:

This whole thread confuses me. As a stepmom, I can't imagine trying to force my stepkids to be some sort of religion. Are the wedding vows to raise them catholic YOUR wedding vows or his and his first wife (if they were married?). I don't see why your wedding vows should effect your stepkids.

I also never realized there was so much drama about which church to pick. Maybe I should force my stepkids to pick my religion... atheism might be the way to go.

I am not the one forcing it, my husband is, I am just trying to support him and keep communication open between him and sd, since I am the only one she will speak to

You keep saying this in this thread, but I also remember you saying it elsewhere. To put it bluntly, you don't seem very good at this and your reports of SD continuing to act out supports that conclusion. Why are you taking it upon yourself to be the mediator? There are professionals for that, you know?  

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2013 14:38:43 GMT -5 frkls said:

Mar 31, 2013 14:33:30 GMT -5 StormyDixon said:

I am not the one forcing it, my husband is, I am just trying to support him and keep communication open between him and sd, since I am the only one she will speak to

i also think it's time to take yourself out of this "i'm the only one she'll talk to" position.  you keep defaulting to that being the source of all your stress.  maybe you should start including your h in these conversations. there's no shame in not being able to maintain that position.  i'm a stepmom in a challenging stepfamily situation and married to a guy to whom religion is very important.  when my dsd was 15, she decided she was atheist.  we said, "okay.  if you have any questions about that, let us know."  a couple months later, she decided that she wasnt rejecting christianity, she didn't want to be associated with the conservative/racist/homophobic/sexist/super-patriotic southern version of christianity.  we talked about it and now we're good.  it happens, but you're going to have to find a way not to be so broken hearted about everything.

you don't say, frkls.

[peachdragon]

Mar 31, 2013 11:44:42 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Mar 31, 2013 11:33:38 GMT -5 spitforspat said:

I'm really sorry for your struggles. And I can't really relate because I'm an atheist, and I don't have a stepmom or stepdaughter.

But, that being said. I think you're making too much of this. You should support her religious exploration. When I was 13 I suddenly decided I wanted to go to church. My non-religious parents went to a dozen different churches with me while I explored.

Why not discuss the different aspects if the religions with her- and focus on what is similar and the major undertones?

I did the same thing starting at 12. My parents dutifully dropped me off at church every Sunday even though they were completely atheist. When I decided to get baptized, my mom swallowed her fear of burning for crossing the church threshold and gifted me a small gold cross in celebration. When I converted to Catholicism, again - they were there. 

fwiw - my methodist baptism counted for the Catholics. 

Why would an atheist believe they would burn? That would indicate she actually did believe.

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[cc]

My husband's dad forced religion down his throat after his parents divorced. He made DH go to church twice a week, with service being all day on Sundays. DH knows the Bible front to back due to having to read it.

What religion does he practice now? None. He considers himself agnostic some days, atheist other days.

One of the main reasons he is no longer religious is because it was forced onto him and it left a bad taste in his mouth.

If her believing in God is so important to you, I suggest you be happy she is being baptized and not focus so much on which church is doing the baptizing.

[tinfoilhat]

I'm coming out of lurking here to tell you this is completely ridiculous. I've read some of your SD Drama posts and I've decided its not SD drama at all. It's your husband drama. If his relationship with his daughter is so strained that she only talks to you, he needs to do some major repair to their relationship. Maybe instead of dropping her off at religious classes every weekend he needs tone spending some time with his daughter.

He needs to show more concern with her LIFE now and not her after life. It's completely absurd to think she will ever value his guidance and wishes, if she herself does not feel valued. You seem to be all up in arms over her normal 13 year old behavior, and completely excusing you husband who is an adult.

[auntie]

Mar 31, 2013 13:56:54 GMT -5 StormyDixon said:

Mar 31, 2013 13:51:04 GMT -5 @pjfranklin said:

This exactly. "We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins". That's referring to the fact that all Christians are saved, not just Catholic ones. The church is way more open and accepting than the OP's reaction would lead you to believe. I never once heard anything about Catholics being the only religion that saves in my 13 years of Catholic education.

This exactly and when I say she doesn't get a do over I mean that we will never see her get baptized, her grandparents, aunts, uncles, father, mother, siblings all missed it.  That moment is gone forever

and yes I believe one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, which is why I am sad she didn't discuss this with us and let us know so we could at least be there, even if we don't agree with her choice

Huh? This should have happened when she was an infant and presumably you weren't in the picture. 

That your DH is sulking, on this the holiest of days in the Christian calendar suggests that he is more interested in his vendetta with his ill chosen first wife than his child's spirititual well-being. If you truly believe that Christian baptism allows her to be save by Jesus Christ who died for her sins. why is he not rejoicing?

[gretchenindisguise]

Mar 31, 2013 14:45:36 GMT -5 peachdragon said:

Mar 31, 2013 11:44:42 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I did the same thing starting at 12. My parents dutifully dropped me off at church every Sunday even though they were completely atheist. When I decided to get baptized, my mom swallowed her fear of burning for crossing the church threshold and gifted me a small gold cross in celebration. When I converted to Catholicism, again - they were there. 

fwiw - my methodist baptism counted for the Catholics. 

Why would an atheist believe they would burn? That would indicate she actually did believe.

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_{it was a joke.}

[StormyDixon]

Mar 31, 2013 16:00:40 GMT -5 ste said:

I'm Jewish, so please feel free to discount this. My parents vowed during their marriage ceremony to raise us Jewish, as did my H and I.

When I was a teenager, I was painfully rebellious. 99% of my actions were specifically intended to hurt my parents, particularly my mom. At some point, I decided that I wanted to go to youth group and church with one of my Christian friends. Every week. You know what my mom did? She encouraged me. She asked me about it when I got home. Every time, she was interested in what happened, what I thought, how I felt about it, if/how it contradicted my religious background.

Now I know that she shed many a tear over this - and I guarantee I'll be in the same boat if my fetus does it to me down the road. But I hope I'm strong enough to follow her lead and do the same. Because I'm still Jewish. And I love it. But my mom respected me enough - even as a rebellious, asshole kid - to give me some control over my life. (And to be clear, my rebellion got a whole hell of a lot worse than going to youth group and church - and today my mom is my best friend. Somehow. lol)

This is very helpful, thank you.  

[meganew]

I stopped reading at "teaching her about different religions is out of the question."

WTF.

[Deleted]

Look, the only thing you've said in here that has made any sense is your displeasure that the church is racist. But if that's so, I am really appalled you started out upset she was not being baptized in a catholic church instead of upset she is hanging out with racists. I get a very strong sense, though, that if the church were catholic, you'd be more than willing to look the other way on the racism. If you really want to honor Jesus today, and help your step-daughter, book a fancy dinner at a nice restaurant for your whole family - her mom and grandmother included - to celebrate her baptism. Buy her a present. And say "I am happy you made this commitment today. It means a lot to us, We are sorry we aren't there but we want to celebrate this event with you so we have thrown you this party and bought this present for you so we can be part of it too." Because any other response makes you a judgmental hypocrite.

[montereybride]

Mar 31, 2013 16:57:41 GMT -5 elle said:

Look, the only thing you've said in here that has made any sense is your displeasure that the church is racist. But if that's so, I am really appalled you started out upset she was not being baptized in a catholic church instead of upset she is hanging out with racists. I get a very strong sense, though, that if the church were catholic, you'd be more than willing to look the other way on the racism. If you really want to honor Jesus today, and help your step-daughter, book a fancy dinner at a nice restaurant for your whole family - her mom and grandmother included - to celebrate her baptism. Buy her a present. And say "I am happy you made this commitment today. It means a lot to us, We are sorry we aren't there but we want to celebrate this event with you so we have thrown you this party and bought this present for you so we can be part of it too." Because any other response makes you a judgmental hypocrite.

I have such a girl crush on you. 

[Deleted]

Look OP, if you force religion on a human being chances are that they are going to resent you for it. You see what you and your husband are doing/trying to do is beneficial, she doesn't or wont. Take it from me, I was raised Catholic and left the church and religion in general. I'm a happy atheist and truly regret what my family put me through. Forced religion just breeds resentment. Save yourself the agony and let your SD choose, she'll be happier in the end and that's what truly matters. Be a good step-mom and be happy for her and her choices, that is what will be most beneficial to your SD. 

I wish you and your SD the best.

   

[kate4924]

Mar 31, 2013 11:47:41 GMT -5 spitforspat said:

I feel more and more sorry for your stepdaughter every time you post.

It's like you want to fight with her.

I'm glad it's not just me thinking this

[SusanBAnthony]

Mar 31, 2013 17:26:56 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oh, I do have a real question. I thought Catholics believed babies needed to be baptized so that if something happened to them they would go to heaven? Wouldn't it be bad to never be baptized as a Catholic? Does it mean you wouldn't go to heaven?

That definitely used to be true, but I think they changed it so that if you don't have time to be baptized due to medical situations, you are cleared for heaven.  Now, if you didn't get baptized bc your parents failed to get it done for whatever reason, I don't know what happens.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2013 16:11:12 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Mar 31, 2013 14:45:36 GMT -5 peachdragon said:

Why would an atheist believe they would burn? That would indicate she actually did believe.

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_{it was a joke.}

LOL at the 6 point font.  HA!

[gretchenindisguise]

Mar 31, 2013 21:23:54 GMT -5 @weeble said:

Mar 31, 2013 16:11:12 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

_{it was a joke.}

LOL at the 6 point font.  HA!

I was whispering

[sparkythelawyer]

This practicing Catholic would like you to simma thefuck down.

First, the rational part of your brain knows that what is behind this whole thing is one of two options:

1) Some good old fashioned teenage rebellion, combined with a healthy dose of anger over a) her parents divorce plus b) the apparent inability of her parents to co-parent her in any meaningful fashion. Most people know how to hit the ones they love where it hurts, and your stepdaughter knows that in order to hit her dad where it hurts, hit him in his Jesus. You getting all sad and butthurt about it is icing on the cake.

2) Some legitimate questioning and seeking out about her faith and her own spiritual path. Your husband has a piece of paper that says he will raise her Catholic. That's nice. She should be allowed, and ENCOURAGED, to investigate other faiths, other paths to a relationship with a higher power if she is curious and has questions. Nobody learns in a vacuum. She should be encouraged to learn. She should be encouraged to question. She should be encouraged to seek out answers to her questions both inside and outside of Catholicism. And anyone that would interfere with that learning is not really interested in her believing in Catholicism, they're just interested in her keeping up appearances for the sake of making the parent "happy."

And she may not choose your "way." And I guess, if you want, you can force it down her throat for the next five years if that's what you choose. But are you prepared to just kick the can down the road until she turns 18 and refuses to set foot inside a church, but did all those years because "you have a court order that says you can?" Isn't it more important that she learn, question, and choose a spiritual path that she believes in, instead of just nodding and smiling to whatever daddy tells her to do?

She's going to keep lashing out at you all because she's getting somewhere with it. People don't lash out at risky targets. She's lashing out at you guys because she's in a safe place when she does so. Keep the dialogue open. Encourage her to learn, encourage her to question, hell GO WITH HER to this other church every now and then and do a little learning and questioning yourself. Make her explain and defend her decisions, even if you have to sit there forever until she starts to open up.

But please, drop the "You non-Catholics don't understand/catholic guilt" bullshit. As a practicing Catholic myself, I find it all sorts of patronizing to presume that the motivating factor behind either a) the decision to raise a child in a particular belief-set or b) the perfectly valid disappointment that happens when your child does not reaffirm your decisions by making the same ones as "Catholic Guilt." If the only reason your husband is raising his kid Catholic or that he feels bad she got baptized is this notion of "Guilt" or "Obligation" to raise his kid Catholic, it makes me wonder if he has ever really taken the time to truly decide for himself if Catholicism is right for HIM, or if it is just what he thinks he is "supposed to do," and I don't appreciate his guilt being lumped onto all Catholics.

[wise_rita]

Mar 31, 2013 13:55:43 GMT -5 MWOS said:

I'm surprised your SD hasn't called Dad out on being divorced, since that's so frowned upon in the eyes of the Church. If Catholicism is so important to him, then it seems a wee bit hypocritical. I mean, to a 13 year old, of course.

I must be 13 then, because I keep thinking "If he's so religious why was there a divorce in the first place?".

[vanillacourage]

Mar 31, 2013 15:29:22 GMT -5 tinfoilhat said:

I'm coming out of lurking here to tell you this is completely ridiculous. I've read some of your SD Drama posts and I've decided its not SD drama at all. It's your husband drama. If his relationship with his daughter is so strained that she only talks to you, he needs to do some major repair to their relationship. Maybe instead of dropping her off at religious classes every weekend he needs tone spending some time with his daughter.

He needs to show more concern with her LIFE now and not her after life. It's completely absurd to think she will ever value his guidance and wishes, if she herself does not feel valued. You seem to be all up in arms over her normal 13 year old behavior, and completely excusing you husband who is an adult.

I completely agree with all of this.

You seem to be enjoying/feeding into the drama with your frequent "I'm the only one she will talk to!!!!!!!!!", calling typical teenage girl stuff an "ongoing saga", etc. Tell your DH that the best way to improve his relationship with his daughter is to spend time with her, WITHOUT AGENDA, and then back off.

[mrsukyankee]

I'm an adolescent therapist so I can say that what your daughter is doing is actually normal. She is deinvidualising, which is what teenagers HAVE TO DO in order to eventually become adults. I get that you are unhappy with the decision she is making (I was raised in a very religious family), but it's not something you can force on her. The best you can do is ask her some curiosity questions without an agenda..."So, what was it like being baptised?", "What made you decide to get baptised in X religion?", "What about that religion do you find most meaningful?". And don't do this in an accusing manner cause then she'll never talk to you. Ask her as you are both cooking, or as she's putting on lipbalm, or as she helps you pick out an outfit. She needs to own her power and if you give it to her for this, she might not try to take it in other, much more potentially harmful, ways.

[cleo29]

I am catholic, so I just want to put that out there before you tell me I must not understand.

1) I am having a really hard time believing that in three years you have not been able to get her baptized, especially if you have those rights. I'm sorry it just sounds off.

2) Pretty much everything you have posted about her is typical teen stuff just made more difficult given her home life situation. She is going through the typical teen angst added to that her legit anger towards her parents and even you over the divorce.

3) I would encourage her to explore religion in general. I was baptized Lutheran because my mom had not been able to find a Catholic Church down here that she really liked and found she DID like the Lutheran church (dad was Lutheran, mom is Catholic). Anyway, I ended up completely the sacraments in the Catholic church. I turned out fine.

Is the Catholic church important to your H or was this coming more from you and he agreed?

[cleo29]

Oh and when she comes home, I would sit down and talk (calmly) about the baptism. Ask her questions about it, what did she think, how did she feel. Give her the chance to have a discussion with you rather than just talking to her. And THEN, you can tell her that you are really sad and hurt that she chose to go in that direction, etc. Maybe she felt more of a connection with that church, maybe she did it just to piss you off, but honestly, if she is not feeling the Catholic faith, why push that on her? Faith is personal. Maybe she will convert when she is older. Who knows? That doesn't mean you don't keep sharing education about the Catholic church or taking her to services.

[cleo29]

how old were you when you were baptized? The oldest I have seen in my church, not including adults who convert, is maybe 7, most are babies or small children. That's in over 30 years of going to church.

[smock]

Apr 1, 2013 5:29:51 GMT -5 tillie said:

Many atheists expect everyone to understand their "religion" but refuse to give other people the same common courtesy.

What, exactly, do you mean by this?

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2013 5:29:51 GMT -5 tillie said:

Didn't read all of the replys. However, what 13 year old really can make a rational decision at that age? I can understand the angst in this situation.

Also, I don't understand how atheists feel they can understand how important religion is to other people. Many atheists expect everyone to understand their "religion" but refuse to give other people the same common courtesy.

Um, because not all atheists were always atheists. I grew up in a church, I went on mission trips, I spent summers at bible camps, I truly believed in the bible and was a very faithful Christian for a large part of my life.

I also have basic comprehension skills. 

In fact, perhaps you would be suprised to know that many of my friends who are atheist also come from very religious backgrounds, a few of them even went to bible colleges for theological studies.

So yeah, a lot of atheists know all about the importance of religion to some people. But thanks for your assumptions that we're just dolts who couldn't possibly understand the concept of religion.

[greylady]

I'm Catholic. Went to Catholic school. Taught CCD. President of the youth group. Worked in the church rectory. Played Jesus in a Living Stations of the Cross performance. Had not one but two priests that were family friends serve at my wedding. Enough Catholic street cred for you?

Because you are being ridiculous. If this were such a priority she would be baptized already. You call the church, set the date, maybe attend a class, and boom, baptism. The Catholics fall all over themselves to get people into the fold. It's the one thing the Church doesn't make you jump through (too many) hoops for.

If you really wanted it done it would be done. And your SD knows this and it probably makes her feel like shit. So when the next person showing interest in her offered to actually do it and make her feel special and like she's a priority she jumped at the chance. Congratulate her on her big day and apologize you weren't there to share it with her.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2013 15:29:22 GMT -5 tinfoilhat said:

I'm coming out of lurking here to tell you this is completely ridiculous. I've read some of your SD Drama posts and I've decided its not SD drama at all. It's your husband drama. If his relationship with his daughter is so strained that she only talks to you, he needs to do some major repair to their relationship. Maybe instead of dropping her off at religious classes every weekend he needs tone spending some time with his daughter.

He needs to show more concern with her LIFE now and not her after life. It's completely absurd to think she will ever value his guidance and wishes, if she herself does not feel valued. You seem to be all up in arms over her normal 13 year old behavior, and completely excusing you husband who is an adult.

I couldn't agree with this more.

[Deleted]

I will also add that I have an 11 year old SD. I am the only person she feels comfortable to talk to as well. I let her get the conversation started but then I bring H in. This is his daughter. You need to do what you can to encourage a relationship between your H and your SD, not just flaunt the fact that she comes to you.

Andplusalso, after reading your other threads about the SD "saga", it doesn't really seem to me that the two of you have the wonderful relationship that you're portraying if you were just worried about her hating you?

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2013 5:29:51 GMT -5 tillie said:

Didn't read all of the replys. However, what 13 year old really can make a rational decision at that age? I can understand the angst in this situation.

Also, I don't understand how atheists feel they can understand how important religion is to other people. Many atheists expect everyone to understand their "religion" but refuse to give other people the same common courtesy.

this is insulting, poorly thought out, and odd.  and i'm not even an atheist.

1.  not all atheists were born atheists.  in fact many were religious.
2.  just because something isn't personally important to you doesn't mean you are wholly incapable of grasping the importance to another person.
3.  if you would like someone to respect your right to worship, you should return the favor to someone who does not.
4.  in this PARTICULAR situation, you have in your first paragraph utterly dismissed the religious motives, ideas, and impetus of an individual and then in the second demanded respect for anyone with a religious bent.  irony, dude.



now, are there atheists who are dismissive of and insulting to religious people and their beliefs?  sure.  but so are religious people.  and, let's just go CRAZY here, all kinds of people!

but i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that teamwilliams's issues w/r/t the stepdaughter are like 5% religion based and 95% everything else that comes with the raising of a teenager whose parents had a dysfunctional marriage for years before finally divorcing.