Post by speckledfrog on Aug 23, 2012 9:26:50 GMT -5
I wish OP could have read this thread and had not one single person agree with her but that didn't happen. However, it was clear that OP does not want to leave her H and elle's post didn't make that any different. Yes, OP glommed on to her but it's not like she was agreeing with anyone before that. OP said before that she would leave if he raped her again and he did but she's still there and wants to give him another chance. It's easy to try and blame elle for giving OP validation to stay but the fact of the matter is that OP has wanted to stay this whole time because she's simply not ready yet. I will continue to be kind and loving in my urges for her to be safe from harm.
I see where Elle aaand Stella are going. And i am a bi disgusted about the protect your child comments. Urs, what he is doing is disgusting, but he doesn't SEE that. He needs to work on realizing how wring it is. But that doesn't mean he will be violent or abusive in other ways. You are not ready for divorce yet. Work on your marriage if you want but also work on getting yourself ready for leaving, because unfortunately, there is a good chance it will get to that. I am sorry.
This is where I'm at, too. OP, you said: "Most of the time that I'm conscious I'm pretty willing." This is inconsistent with what you've previously said about (about how his actions hurt you). I don't want to be an apologist for what very well may be a rapist, but I do think there is something to Pantsparty's comment about how men see this as sort of sexy. I know my own H has confessed to me on multiple occasions that he would love it if he woke up to me being on top of him. So, if he's doing the same to you, and you appear willing - I'm just not sure you are sending a strong message.
So, to those that call this situation rape - I guess I question whether this is really non-consensual. If OP only reveals her true feelings after-the-fact (and, in this case, possible YEARS after the fact) how can we call him a rapist? NOW...the fact that it happened again hours after your therapy session...that's fucked up and I can't wrap my head around that.
I don't usually feel sucked in to online dramas or stories but my heart actually aches for you. You were raped by the person who should be most invested in protecting you. After you and a professional explained it was rape, he did it again. He will do this again to you in the future.
I understand how complicated marriage is. I know how it must seem easier to remain with him. But when you boil it down to just the fact that your husband repeatedly raped you, I honestly don't know how you can stay in the room with him for even one second.
I sincerely sincerely hope you gain the strength you need to leave him.
I see where Elle aaand Stella are going. And i am a bi disgusted about the protect your child comments. Urs, what he is doing is disgusting, but he doesn't SEE that. He needs to work on realizing how wring it is. But that doesn't mean he will be violent or abusive in other ways. You are not ready for divorce yet. Work on your marriage if you want but also work on getting yourself ready for leaving, because unfortunately, there is a good chance it will get to that. I am sorry.
This is where I'm at, too. OP, you said: "Most of the time that I'm conscious I'm pretty willing." This is inconsistent with what you've previously said about (about how his actions hurt you). I don't want to be an apologist for what very well may be a rapist, but I do think there is something to Pantsparty's comment about how men see this as sort of sexy. I know my own H has confessed to me on multiple occasions that he would love it if he woke up to me being on top of him. So, if he's doing the same to you, and you appear willing - I'm just not sure you are sending a strong message.
So, to those that call this situation rape - I guess I question whether this is really non-consensual. If OP only reveals her true feelings after-the-fact (and, in this case, possible YEARS after the fact) how can we call him a rapist? NOW...the fact that it happened again hours after your therapy session...that's fucked up and I can't wrap my head around that.
Did you READ any of her previous threads? Because her and her therapist both have agreed it's rape. She didn't object this past time for whatever reason, but she has before.
He most certainly has been raping his wife for years. That would make him a rapist.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
calledout, I think she means she is pretty willing to have sex with him when she is NOT sleeping. Not meaning that when she wakes up she is willing, but that other than the fact that he is raping her, she is not withholding sex from him or anything like that.
I see where Elle aaand Stella are going. And i am a bi disgusted about the protect your child comments. Urs, what he is doing is disgusting, but he doesn't SEE that. He needs to work on realizing how wring it is. But that doesn't mean he will be violent or abusive in other ways. You are not ready for divorce yet. Work on your marriage if you want but also work on getting yourself ready for leaving, because unfortunately, there is a good chance it will get to that. I am sorry.
This is where I'm at, too. OP, you said: "Most of the time that I'm conscious I'm pretty willing." This is inconsistent with what you've previously said about (about how his actions hurt you). I don't want to be an apologist for what very well may be a rapist, but I do think there is something to Pantsparty's comment about how men see this as sort of sexy. I know my own H has confessed to me on multiple occasions that he would love it if he woke up to me being on top of him. So, if he's doing the same to you, and you appear willing - I'm just not sure you are sending a strong message.
So, to those that call this situation rape - I guess I question whether this is really non-consensual. If OP only reveals her true feelings after-the-fact (and, in this case, possible YEARS after the fact) how can we call him a rapist? NOW...the fact that it happened again hours after your therapy session...that's fucked up and I can't wrap my head around that.
SHE IS UNCONSCIOUS WHEN HE HAS SEX WITH HER! She's not awake to give consent, and has even gone as far as to say "I dont want you to have sex with me when I"m asleep" before they turn off the light, and he still does it. And she said in previous posts that she has told him no and tried to get him to stop when she wakes up, but that he continues to rape her. Because that's rape. And per other posts, she was never hiding her feelings about how this made her feel- her husband simply chose to ignore her feelings and told her she was over reacting.
I re-read the "willing" comment and I see that I interpreted it the wrong way. Still though, I would like some clarification as to whether or not OP ever expressed her unwillingness upon waking up? That wouldn't necessarily be definitive - as you all have pointed out an absence of consent is the issue. But it would affect whether I call him a monster with a capital or lowercase "m."
If she is relying on what I am saying (and I doubt she is) let me be clear: She should throw him out of the bedroom or, preferably, out of the house entirely. She needs her own therapist who is firmly in her corner, and only her corner, and she needs to listen if the therapist says divorce. But if, after going through therapy and with the advice of professionals, she decides she wants to stay in the marriage, she should not be viewed (nor should she view herself) as weak, or manipulated, or imperiling her child.
you know. this thread has me terrified that other people view spousal rape as ok. because I can guarantee that if beat her black and blue after a therapy session, nobody----nobody would say "yea. sure. keep doing therapy.
I can't believe some of the things people think is ok.
There are so many people who don't think it's a "thing." Implied consent and all that jazz.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I re-read the "willing" comment and I see that I interpreted it the wrong way. Still though, I would like some clarification as to whether or not OP ever expressed her unwillingness upon waking up? That wouldn't necessarily be definitive - as you all have pointed out an absence of consent is the issue. But it would affect whether I call him a monster with a capital or lowercase "m."
Did you read the link I posted?
Even if you didn't, how can you think this is okay when she told her husband it was rape, their therapist said, "yep, this is rape," and then he went home and raped her AGAIN after that??
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
you know. this thread has me terrified that other people view spousal rape as ok. because I can guarantee that if beat he her black and blue after a therapy session, nobody----nobody would say "yea. sure. keep doing therapy. you're totally right for staying"
I can't believe some of the things people think is ok.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
Also, op, I really think you need your own therapist who can help you. Just you. Someone who is specialized in rape. "sex issues" is not rape, you need a rape counsellor.
I think you need to be very clear about why you are staying with him. Because he is someone you love and cherish and want to spend the rest of your life with? Or because logistically it would be difficult to not be with him anymore? If its the latter, there is so much help out there for you. So much.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
I re-read the "willing" comment and I see that I interpreted it the wrong way. Still though, I would like some clarification as to whether or not OP ever expressed her unwillingness upon waking up? That wouldn't necessarily be definitive - as you all have pointed out an absence of consent is the issue. But it would affect whether I call him a monster with a capital or lowercase "m."
Yes, she has previously posted that she has said no, and tried to get him to stop while he is raping her, but that he just continues. She also said that earlier in their marriage, he coerced her into other sexual acts against her will.
OP - I just wanted to say that I'm very, very sad for your situation and hope you are able to come to a decision that is best for you and your child. I strongly agree with those that said you need your own therapist. You really need someone that will focus on your situation and not just trying to "fix" your husband. Good luck to you.
you know. this thread has me terrified that other people view spousal rape as ok. because I can guarantee that if beat he her black and blue after a therapy session, nobody----nobody would say "yea. sure. keep doing therapy. you're totally right for staying"
I can't believe some of the things people think is ok.
No one said spousal rape is OK. No one said she should ignore it and continue like nothing happened. Everyone agreed it is a horrible, horrible thing to do.
As I have said several times, I do not think this is the time or the place to get into categorizing rapes. But the fact is that legally, spousal rape accomplished through lack of consent is not the same crime as spousal rape accomplished by force. Until 15 years ago, this wasn't even a crime in many states. It is a crime now. It is rape. But I can see how a man in his 30's, who himself might like to be woken up with sex, could truly not grasp the gravity of what he is doing. No one wants to be beat up. We are all taught from a very young age not to hit people. A person who hasn't grasped that by adulthood is never going to learn. So to me, while the acts are both awful, the possibility that education and rehabilitation will stop this form of rape is a lot more realistic than the possibility that education and rehabilitation will stop physical beatings.
you know. this thread has me terrified that other people view spousal rape as ok. because I can guarantee that if beat he her black and blue after a therapy session, nobody----nobody would say "yea. sure. keep doing therapy. you're totally right for staying"
I can't believe some of the things people think is ok.
No one said spousal rape is OK. No one said she should ignore it and continue like nothing happened. Everyone agreed it is a horrible, horrible thing to do.
As I have said several times, I do not think this is the time or the place to get into categorizing rapes. But the fact is that legally, spousal rape accomplished through lack of consent is not the same crime as spousal rape accomplished by force. Until 15 years ago, this wasn't even a crime in many states. It is a crime now. It is rape. But I can see how a man in his 30's, who himself might like to be woken up with sex, could truly not grasp the gravity of what he is doing. No one wants to be beat up. We are all taught from a very young age not to hit people. A person who hasn't grasped that by adulthood is never going to learn. So to me, while the acts are both awful, the possibility that education and rehabilitation will stop this form of rape is a lot more realistic than the possibility that education and rehabilitation will stop physical beatings.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
Elle. I honestly don't get what you're trying to accomplish here, or why you are bothering to split hairs about this. And if you bring up the handful of people who are worried about her child again, I will scream.
Bottom line, I do not think it is helpful for people to try to shame her into divorcing him now. She obviously feels like shit as it is. I don't think anyone needs to make her feel worse, no matter how great their motives. Therapists are trained to deal with this. The end game may well be divorce. That's probably good advice and it may be what her therapist is moving her towards. Most of the posts in here were helpful. But there were more than a few that, if I were in her situation, would just make me feel more disempowered and like I was a loser for even wanting to try. I guess I should have just said that. But it's sort of my primary point.
Post by glitzyglow on Aug 23, 2012 10:46:07 GMT -5
You need a different therapist. I'm not saying the one that you are seeing isn't a valid, legit counselor, but the issue is that he cannot be an individual counselor to each of you and a couples' counselor. You need someone who is 1000% on your side with your best interest at the forefront.
*poof*
Please seek counseling immediately with someone else. It's a step. I'm not telling you to go file for a divorce today because I know it's something you have to want to do. But on behalf of YOU and those who love you and care about you, make the call today for your own therapist. It took much soul searching with my therapist for me to understand how I could legitimize my decision to stay with my ex; our choices often run much deeper than meet the eye. Again, I hope you'll seek a counselor for you.
I know this is not easy (and probably overwhelming) and my heart breaks for you just reading what you've endured. It's okay to be angry and it's okay to explore the avenue of anger.
I'm very sorry that you're going through this. I think you need a new therapist… he sucks. Your husband is meant to be the one person in the world who would protect you and take care of you at ALL costs. He is not supposed to be hurting you like this. Please consider leaving - you deserve to be happy and feel safe.
Ok so I didn't read all of this thread but maybe just maybe if one more person says something it will sink into OP.... You say he has remorse, ALL ABUSERS have remorse!! LOTS of remorse. It's a cycle, a vicious cycle. Look into women's battered shelters in your area, they offer free counseling and have great services to offer all for free. Even though you do not feel like a battered wife, trust me YOU ARE! Just don't let his remorsefullness end in servere injury to yourself or worse.
Please for the sake of your child, talk to a counselor who works with woman in these situations and let him go to his own counseling. I pray some of this opens your eyes to see the truth, the real truth. I pray for you and your child.
I want our child to grow up in a home with two parents who love and trust each other, who know how to work through the hard times and support each other.
So, your advice to your child is to stay in a relationship where s/he is being raped? Really?
Look, I know you've heard it a billion times already, but you need to leave. Your H is FUCKING RAPING YOU. You say "no", he says "that's nice, I don't give a fuck".
This is all about power and control. What happens when your child becomes the target? Clearly this scumbag has no boundaries and can't be bothered with someone else's.
Please, please get out of there for your sake AND the sake of your child.
And yes, you most certainly should be sniping, etc., at him. Why the hell shouldn't you - you're living in the same house with your rapist.
Being a sexual abuse survivor and having to see my abuser on a regular basis, I still snipe (if I even acknowledge him) and it was over 20 years ago. The hurt will never go away, the trust will never be rebuilt. You may want it to, but its just not going to happen.
And whomever mentioned about this scumbag not doing it for two years (that you know of) and then doing it immediate after his therapist told him not to? Yeah, that's ALL about control and "no one will tell him what he can and can't do".
If you can't be bothered to protect yourself, please, for the love of all you hold dear, protect your child.
He has no explanation. He is extremely remorseful.
People who are extremely remorseful for raping their wives do not repeat that violation.
I'll admit that I haven't read through the rest of the responses, yet, but this is RIGHT ON!!! Please find another therapist who's sole purpose it making YOU better, and is not focused on fixing this sham of a marriage.