Pre-K Readiness

[rbp]

Is this a thing? My son will be 4 on August 4. Our cutoff is 4 by September 1 for Pre-K, although school actually starts on August 6. This would make M one of the youngest kids in his class, but my understanding is that public Pre-K programs in my county do not accept students who have turned 5 before 9/1 (they will be enrolled in K).

We plan to enroll him in Pre-K on time, despite my IL's insistence that "boys should be held back." They are both public school teachers, but I disagree with them on this and believe that redshirting should be an exception made on a case-by-case basis. Yesterday, out of the blue, my H said "Is M at grade level?" (or something like that). I was befuddled. I mean, what does that even mean for a 3yo? At every conference with his preschool teachers, they have talked about how smart and engaged he was. We haven't observed any problems with his socialization. But we haven't specifically asked his preschool teachers "Do you think he will be ready for Pre-K in August?"

So, is Pre-K readiness something we should concern ourselves with? My thought had been that Pre-K is an opportunity to assess K readiness, and if he is not ready, we will put him in a second year of Pre-K (in a private program). Apparently H's question yesterday arose because he was talking with a friend whose daughter turned 5 in August and is not in K this year. H didn't seem to think the friend had a specific reason for redshirting their daughter, other than her summer birthday. I told him "this is a thing that rich people do because they think it will make their kids smarter than their classmates, but for some kids, being among the oldest in the class can also be a problem."

Thoughts? WWYD in the situation of having one of the youngest kids in the class? I know that in our area, redshirting tends to creep such that kids with early summer or even late spring birthdays may be starting K having already turned 6. 

[mccallister84]

No. Send him to pre-K on time.

[andwhat]

I don't really post here anymore, but for DD to enter pre-K she had a very short 1-on-1 session with the teacher. I think any kid who has been in daycare would be ready. She is the youngest in her class and there were some who turned 5 in September. At the beginning of the year, some kids were learning to read and some were just IDing letters. A teacher should be able to handle that variation. I am extremely anti-redshirting though.

[pugz]

its not a thing, prek will get him ready for kindergarten. Send him!

[robyn]

Send him! DD will be 4 on July 31 (the day of our cutoff for starting pre-k at 4 and K at 5) and I've waffled back and forth mainly for logistical reasons. In the end though, we are sending her to pre-school this year through our school district and pre-k next year through our school district, and as long as her pre-k teachers there feel she is ready we will send her to K as a very new 5 year old and figure out the logistical stuff. The biggest barrier is that the our city's day camp program doesn't take 5 year olds. So for her Kindergarten year and the summer after we won't be able to use them for day camps during winter and spring break, teacher in service days and summer break which will make things really hard. But hopefully we can find some other options.

[dcn]

I’d send him on time. Pre k will prepare him for kindergarten.

[Deleted]

Pre K here expects them to know basically nothing coming in. My DD’s pre-k worked on social skills, listening to teachers, holding a pencil, writing their name, and general knowledge likes months, seasons etc.

[imojoebunny]

I would send. DS goes to public school. He is in 3rd grade. Only 1 kid in the class is a year older than the others, and he was retained in after kinder for very specific reasons. It was the same in my daughter's class, when we were in APS. Maybe 2 kids were redshirts, out of 23.

It was suggested by a private pre-K that DD be retained after pre-k, but I did not do it. She didn't really know her letters or numbers, at the end of pre-k. I sent her anyway, and she got Orton-Guillinham tutoring for dyslexia, starting in 1st grade. Holding her back would have only delayed getting her help another year, not solved the problem.

The only people I see redshirting are kids who are going to places like Westminster, where most kids do Pre-first, and go for an extra year.

[minniemouse]

Some pre-k’s require the kids to be potty trained. No academic requirements. I would certainly send him on time for pre-k.

[Susie]

I don't have any plans to redshirt Hobbes, who will make the cutoff by 2 weeks.  We're still a ways off, but she is so far showing herself to be at or ahead of the curve on pretty much everything at our conferences with her teachers and at her pedi visits.  Just being young isn't a reason for me to hold her back.  I would feel the same way if she was a boy.

She will go to a private pre-k program (we don't have public pre-k) for 2019-20 school year, starting at 3y10m.  She'll go to public K at 4y10m.  Our district's cutoff for K is "must be 5 by 12/1," and her birthday is 11/16.

[oswin]

Not a thing. Send him to Pre-K. As you say, if he's really not ready for kindergarten next year you can hold him back then.

We're in the opposite boat - DD is too young to go to kindergarten next year (by 2 months), but she's almost certainly ready and would be horribly bored to repeat Pre-K. So we're most likely sending her to private K, at which point she will either test into public 1st, repeat kindergarten in public school, or go to private 1st (after which she'd be eligible to go to public 2nd). So obviously I'm inclined to think that red-shirting should absolutely be on a case-by-case basis and only done when a kid really isn't at all ready. Someone has to be the youngest in the class, and being the youngest can be good because then they have more mature kids around them modeling good behavior, etc.

[DarcyLongfellow]

This board leans heavily *against* redshirting, so you're probably going to get very similar advice from most people :-)

Both of my girls have summer birthdays. Neither one will be held back, so I can share my experiences.

DD1 is 8 and in third grade. Her birthday is July 29th, the cut off is turning 5 by September 1st, and school starts the second week of August. I asked DD1's teachers at every conference in preschool whether she should start kindergarten on time, and they always told me yes. Redshirting is very common where I live, and I won't lie -- it's very annoying sometimes. DD1 was 4 years old until 2 weeks before she started kindergarten. At the end of kindergarten, she was still 5 (and wouldn't turn 6 for 2 months), and some kids in her class were already 7.

As far as academics, DD1 is awesome. She actually tested into the gifted class and is at the top of her class. She loves school and learning. Socially, she has some issues. Some of these stem from the fact that she is shy and a very anxious kid, but DH and I do wonder if some of them are because she is so young for her grade. They're compounded by the fact that her fine motor skills are poor (she's in OT), so her writing is painfully slow and very hard to read. She has a lot of trouble warming up to new situations and new classmates, and she can get teased for being quiet.

BUT -- even with all of what we know now, we'd still have sent her on time.

DD2's birthday is in early June. She's in pre-K right now, and we're planning to send her.

As far as readiness for pre-K, I'm pretty sure the only requirement here is that your kid be fully potty trained!! There are some kids who don't go to any preschool at all until pre-K.

My girls have learned a lot in pre-K, and I wouldn't want to send them to kindergarten without it. But 3 year old preschool is different. I can't think of any academic things they learn in that that they'd have to know for pre-K.

[noodleoo]

Unless you have a specific reason not to, I would send him on time. I think people hold kids back basically due to peer pressure or because they read some blog that said their kid would end up ahead of their peers. This is a very rich white person thing to do. My immigrant parents were always pushing to get us into school earlier and jump ahead. It is funny to see the opposite so prevalent here.

I think you would know in your gut if he wasn't ready. Send him, he'll be fine! And that's one less year to pay for daycare.

[tigress]

See I'm one of the horrible moms that will probably redshirt my son. DS's birthday is on the cutoff of starting K, on 9/15, however school usually starts 3.5 weeks before that. I don't want him being 4 for the first few weeks of kindergarten. I guess maybe I'd feel different if he seemed ahead academically, but he seems fairly average for his age, definitely not advanced. I don't want to push it. I suppose that all could change in the next year or so, but for now I'm not planning on putting him in pre-K until 2019-2020 school year and then K in the 2020-2021 school year.

[Velar Fricative]

Absolutely send him and don't question it!

DD1 is starting public K in September but she doesn't turn 5 until October. NYC's cutoff is 12/31 so she'll be on the younger side, but she's exceeding expectations in Pre-K this year and I've never felt unsure about whether she was "ready" or not. No redshirting allowed here but I have zero qualms about her being younger than most of her peers and am just looking forward to no more daycare payments for her lol.

If for some reason the teachers speak to you with concerns about how he's doing in Pre-K, then address things then. I would not base my decision on what everyone else is doing. And if they *do* come to you with concerns next year, I'd ask how old the other kids are because if he's "behind," it could just be because he's in Pre-K with almost-6-year-olds and obviously they're going to seem more developed and "ahead" (which would anger me, but alas).

[kershnic]

In my area lots of kid start K at 4 because the cut offs are either in fall or Dec 31. People do not give kids enough credit for what they can handle sometimes.

If your child was not PreK ready you would already know about it, because you'd be getting notes and meetings about behavior and/or early intervention/evaluation. Almost all typically developing kids who have attended daycare are more than PreK ready.

[bex]

Send him. PreK readiness is not a thing. If there were any significant issues I would hope your teacher would have addressed them already with you (like anything that might pose a problem in preK.) For DS preK was just....daycare...with a little more structure to it.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 12:27:06 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:05:17 GMT -5 tigress said:

See I'm one of the horrible moms that will probably redshirt my son. DS's birthday is on the cutoff of starting K, on 9/15, however school usually starts 3.5 weeks before that. I don't want him being 4 for the first few weeks of kindergarten. I guess maybe I'd feel different if he seemed ahead academically, but he seems fairly average for his age, definitely not advanced. I don't want to push it. I suppose that all could change in the next year or so, but for now I'm not planning on putting him in pre-K until 2019-2020 school year and then K in the 2020-2021 school year.

Here we go again!!
Because god forbid a kid be average.
How is starting school on time pushing it?

If he had been born 1 day later (and he was a week early) he wouldn't make the cut off. Why can this not be my choice? From what I can tell based upon his peers as a 3 year old he relates more with the younger crowd than the older crowd. As I said, if things change and he appears more ready in the future, I will re-evaluate. 

You can do whatever you would like with your child. I will with mine. 

[brooklyn]

Redshirting is dumb in most cases. Send your kid when they are supposed to be sent. They will learn what they need to learn in pre-k. I’m in NYC with the Dec. 31st cutoff. I’m an oct birthday, and a whole bunch of us started kindergarten while still 4 and did just fine. In fact, our 8th grade valedictorian had a Dec 28th birthday and went on to one of the best NYC high schools, and then on to Harvard. I’m sure he would have been horribly bored if his parents had decided to redshirt him on age alone.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 12:35:28 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:33:45 GMT -5 tigress said:

If he had been born 1 day later (and he was a week early) he wouldn't make the cut off. Why can this not be my choice? From what I can tell based upon his peers as a 3 year old he relates more with the younger crowd than the older crowd. As I said, if things change and he appears more ready in the future, I will re-evaluate. 

You can do whatever you would like with your child. I will with mine. 

Of course you are free to contribute to the issue. Have at it.

Honestly if he was an August or July birth month baby I probably wouldn't consider it. And again, if daycare says I should send him bc he's ready, then great. I know a few people, though, that held their kids back even with June birthdays, and then my DD's best friend in K that did K last year and then switched schools and is repeating as an April birthday and none of them regret it. Why push it? If he seems super ready, great. If not, why is it the worst thing in the world to give him a year to mature more?

[Deleted]

I am a pretty firm believer in not red shirting. And both my girls are on the young side for their grades and it’s fine.

With my DS though he’s in the old side (November birthday with a September or October cutoff). He still is socially immature and struggling a little in kindergarten because of it. We have friends who have a DS born in August and went to K this past year and even though my DS is socially immature, this other boy is 10 months younger than him and seems soooooo much younger. Our friends are likely going to have him repeat K because it’s not looking like he will be ready to move onto first grade. But they are concerned about the social stigma of that from the other kids (I actually don’t think it’s as big of an issue as they think, there are a few boys at my kids’ school who repeated K and no one makes a big deal about it).

I think sending him on time is fine, and if he has to repeat kindy because he’s not quite ready for 1st, fine. Or if he ends up mature enough to go on to 1st grade, you wouldn’t have known that if he didn’t go. I think it tends to be a bigger issue for boys from a maturity standpoint especially given how strongly most kindergarten classrooms tend to favor little girls. I don’t think it’s usually an academic thing when they get held back for a second year of K.

[erbear]

Nope. Send him. Pretty much every kid is "pre-k ready"

[raangoli]

If they are academically ready, then send them on time. No one wants to see your kid fail and they will be honest about whether they need to repeat or wait another year.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 12:57:46 GMT -5 @mrsgreeko said:

I am a pretty firm believer in not red shirting. And both my girls are on the young side for their grades and it’s fine.

With my DS though he’s in the old side (November birthday with a September or October cutoff). He still is socially immature and struggling a little in kindergarten because of it. We have friends who have a DS born in August and went to K this past year and even though my DS is socially immature, this other boy is 10 months younger than him and seems soooooo much younger. Our friends are likely going to have him repeat K because it’s not looking like he will be ready to move onto first grade. But they are concerned about the social stigma of that from the other kids (I actually don’t think it’s as big of an issue as they think, there are a few boys at my kids’ school who repeated K and no one makes a big deal about it).

I think sending him on time is fine, and if he has to repeat kindy because he’s not quite ready for 1st, fine. Or if he ends up mature enough to go on to 1st grade, you wouldn’t have known that if he didn’t go. I think it tends to be a bigger issue for boys from a maturity standpoint especially given how strongly most kindergarten classrooms tend to favor little girls. I don’t think it’s usually an academic thing when they get held back for a second year of K.

This is why I don't want to push it. If my kid is literally on the borderline then why is it such a bad thing to wait? 

[tigress]

I guess I'm talking more K than pre-K. I think pre-K is a great and fine place to see how the kiddo will do with older peers.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 25, 2018 12:39:05 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:35:28 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Of course you are free to contribute to the issue. Have at it.

Honestly if he was an August or July birth month baby I probably wouldn't consider it. And again, if daycare says I should send him bc he's ready, then great. I know a few people, though, that held their kids back even with June birthdays, and then my DD's best friend in K that did K last year and then switched schools and is repeating as an April birthday and none of them regret it. Why push it? If he seems super ready, great. If not, why is it the worst thing in the world to give him a year to mature more?

It's not a "you do you" situation though. If it was, I wouldn't care. 

One year makes a big difference in child development. As more parents redshirt their kids "just because," the expectations that everyone, including teachers, will have is that the younger kids (the ones that started on time) are behind. Of course they're "behind" when Big Johnny over there is 7 years old and in K but younger kid just turned 5. Friends of ours had to have their son repeat K because he was born two weeks before the cutoff but there were kids in his class 18+ months older, so of course he's going to seem "less mature" than the other kids, but he would have been fine if the kids were closer to his age. Then does the curriculum change to account for this? Does it not? What are the consequences of either result? And then there's the whole issue about the younger kids falling behind even further as a result, and many of them will come from families who had no financial choice NOT to send their kids on time because childcare is expensive. Ergo, educational divide.

I've always believed that most school districts aren't doing enough to prevent this from happening. There should be up to a one-year range in age for kids in a particular grade, that's it (excluding kids with special needs that have been assessed professionally). 

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2018 13:08:47 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:57:46 GMT -5 @mrsgreeko said:

I am a pretty firm believer in not red shirting. And both my girls are on the young side for their grades and it’s fine.

With my DS though he’s in the old side (November birthday with a September or October cutoff). He still is socially immature and struggling a little in kindergarten because of it. We have friends who have a DS born in August and went to K this past year and even though my DS is socially immature, this other boy is 10 months younger than him and seems soooooo much younger. Our friends are likely going to have him repeat K because it’s not looking like he will be ready to move onto first grade. But they are concerned about the social stigma of that from the other kids (I actually don’t think it’s as big of an issue as they think, there are a few boys at my kids’ school who repeated K and no one makes a big deal about it).

I think sending him on time is fine, and if he has to repeat kindy because he’s not quite ready for 1st, fine. Or if he ends up mature enough to go on to 1st grade, you wouldn’t have known that if he didn’t go. I think it tends to be a bigger issue for boys from a maturity standpoint especially given how strongly most kindergarten classrooms tend to favor little girls. I don’t think it’s usually an academic thing when they get held back for a second year of K.

This is why I don't want to push it. If my kid is literally on the borderline then why is it such a bad thing to wait? 

I should clarify that they don’t regret sending him to K and it’s not a huge deal for them that he repeat K, but they are considering choicing him into a different school to repeat. And I will say again that even my on the older side kid is struggling a little in K with maturity so being in the older side doesn’t necessarily solve that.

[icedcoffee]

Send him. I hate red-shirting. Our cutoff is 9/1 and DS is born 11/8. I wish I could send him early!

I'm hoping my next kid is born in the spring/summer so I don't have to pay an extra year of daycare!

[numbers]

Send him to Pre-K based on the age cutoff.

Ditto everyone else that Pre-K exists to get kids ready for K.

And, based on your social media posts, I think he's definitely ready.

[bdubs419]

Absolutely send. There is no such thing as readiness for Pre-K. There really aren't "qualifications" that need to be met to start Pre-K. Pre-K is a great way for kids to prepare themselves for Kindergarten.