Pre-K Readiness

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 17:09:24 GMT -5 Ashley&Scott said:

Jan 26, 2018 16:12:17 GMT -5 tigress said:

And I knew I shouldn't say it. I almost didn't. I shouldn't have. Bc I knew it would be taken like that. 

I understand now that this is quite the hot button issue. Like I have said again and again, I agree with much of it. Most of it. All of it even? I wasn't disagreeing with people I don't think. My son would be the same age as his peers if he started at 4 or 5, he would be on either side of the spectrum. I said I was not ruling things out and would consider starting him at 5 instead of 4 if that was best then I became a white man enabler. I'm not trying to backpedal on what I have said. 

I don't know that I said that I was right and everyone else was wrong. Did I? Or did I imply that? 

I know I should just need to leave this thread and come back. I'm getting more upset by this than I should by a message board. 

You keep emphasizing that he would be starting at 4yo. Yes, technically he'll be 4 but it would only be for a few weeks &  it is in line with the school/state's dates. If you wait until he's actually 5 to start K then he will be 6 years old for 90% of his kindergarten year. Schools set the cut off date with the intention that they year a child turns 5 they start K.  By red shirting your kid you are skewing the average age up which then impacts curriculum & everyone else as a result. 

And FWIW, my son seems to do better with older kids. I loved it when he moved up a class in DC because he had so much learning & growth both in skills & maturity as a result. 

I do. I'm sorry. 

I felt like people kept emphasizing how horrible it would be to wait for my kid to start K because he's so old. I was just trying to say that he'd be 5 turning 6, which in my area is pretty much what every other kid would be. He wouldn't be super special snowflake. Because our cut off date is 9/15, most if not all K kids in my girls classes were 5 turning 6. 

But yes I see now that other areas kids start at 4 and that's normal. That hasn't been my experience in the past, but I see that most kids deal totally fine. If you are used to 12/1 cut off dates, obviously there will be a variety of 4 year olds starting kindergarten and would be totally normal. 

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 17:43:49 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Jan 26, 2018 13:51:15 GMT -5 tigress said:

My DD is 100% for height and then if she wears an afro puff pony she looks even taller. She is a kindergartener that is almost as tall as my average size 3rd grader. People are always commenting on how big she is. If there are others that are her height people don't comment on it as much as she's not seen as out of the ordinary. I only included the height comment because her friend that repeated K is tall like her so she has a cohort in height and it makes me happy (even though it appears her parents have done her a great disservice to have her repeat a year per the consensus here). That's all. I wasn't discussing it in relation to whether or not someone would/should redshirt. 

No one is saying that. In fact, they are saying send your kid on time so you have the option to hold back in K if needed. You will really throw the age range out of order if you redshirt based just on birthday and then run into problems later.

That was about a kid that is in my child's class that did get held back, she is repeating K this year after doing it last year. I agree with what you are saying. 

[numbers]

Jan 26, 2018 9:37:55 GMT -5 rbp said:

From what I can tell my county does not accept 5yos in public pre-K. But I'm pretty sure you can get around that by putting your 5yo in private pre-K and then enrolling them in public K at 6.

I heard a rumor that if you try to enroll a 6yo in K, APS will now place them in 1st instead, thanks to the rampant redshirting issues around here.

And what's wrong with being a W type?

[frlcb]

Jan 26, 2018 19:44:12 GMT -5 numbers said:

Jan 26, 2018 9:37:55 GMT -5 rbp said:

From what I can tell my county does not accept 5yos in public pre-K. But I'm pretty sure you can get around that by putting your 5yo in private pre-K and then enrolling them in public K at 6.

I heard a rumor that if you try to enroll a 6yo in K, APS will now place them in 1st instead, thanks to the rampant redshirting issues around here.

And what's wrong with being a W type?

I know someone who did it this year in an aps school and had no issues so I’m not sure that’s not just wishful thinking

[lolo]

Jan 26, 2018 19:44:12 GMT -5 numbers said:

Jan 26, 2018 9:37:55 GMT -5 rbp said:

From what I can tell my county does not accept 5yos in public pre-K. But I'm pretty sure you can get around that by putting your 5yo in private pre-K and then enrolling them in public K at 6.

I heard a rumor that if you try to enroll a 6yo in K, APS will now place them in 1st instead, thanks to the rampant redshirting issues around here.

And what's wrong with being a W type?

They place them in first after red-shirting here in California also.

I'm glad they they have both that policy AND that kids are 5 when they start here. The curriculum is not appropriate for most 4 year olds.

[spk926]

Jan 26, 2018 23:39:01 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jan 26, 2018 15:16:18 GMT -5 spk926 said:

That's actually an outdated thought in education. Reading to learn and learning to read happen simultaneously through elementary and beyond. Obviously in K-2 more focus is on phonics and the foundation of reading skills but that's not to say students aren't learning as they read - they are! Same goes for upper grades as yes they are learning but they are also still learning how to read and become more fluent, comprehend better, etc. 

Yes, 3rd grade is a pretty pivotal year in education when it comes to reading. If a student isn't reading proficiently by the end of 3rd grade they are four times more likely to drop out of high school. At my school we have dedicated reading intervention programs just for 3rd and 4th graders who aren't reading at grade level. The goal is to get them as close to grade level as we can because studies show it has a great impact on their success through school. 

Two quick examples of what I mean. There are plenty more out there. 
teacher.scholastic.com/professional/readexpert/mythread.htm

www.educationcorner.com/learning-to-read-to-read-to-learn.html

In MN the cutoff is 9/1. I've had students with an 8/31 birth date and those with 9/2 birthdays. Their birthday doesn't always correlate to their academic achievement. I wish it was mandatory (barring special circumstances the school district has found) to send your child to K on time. That will never happen, but I wish it could. 

Oh dear!!
I mean. I thought the text was going to cite how the grades when this changes is no longer 4th grade. I would’ve agreed with that. But nope, it was an unfortunate mess. No one is against high schoolers learning basics like author’s craft and identifying shades of meaning. However, low level shit like, decoding, for older kids, outside a 1 to 1 intervention setting ? Nooo! Why, because it doesn’t work long term, and now the kid can’t read, also can’t do single subjects (like Math), is embarrassed by their peer group, and epically frustrated. So, they drop out.

Of course Scholastics is going to take the stance of teaching foundational reading for as long as possible. They’re a curriculum manufacturer hoping to sell Read 180 , System 44, or whatever overpriced licensing product they have out now to gullible school districts. Changing the narrative to their advantage = selling more shit.

The second site lost me at their links to Chiropractic Life Coaching, and Oriental Medicine. It’s also a .com, (as opposed to .edu, or .org). So, side-eye to whatever they are trying to sell.

But if anyone finds something good on this topic from JSTOR or EBSCOHOST, hook a girl up with a double-blind!

Funny because I actually tried logging into my graduate school's library and couldn't remember my library login credentials to get into the journals. That and today was a full day of PD on literacy (where we were instructed on this oddly) and the GRR model. So it was fresh in my mind and I had to quickly find articles to put here before heading back to meetings and lovely PLC time. Of course Scholastic has their biased, but it's not bad information for parents, especially those not in the education system, to read. I taught 3rd last year and something as simple as telling parents they can and should still read to their children was a shock to them. This is a huge and hot button topic in my district and administrators and curriculum directors are training us hard on the reader's workshop model for literacy block K-8. A lot is review and a refresher but still valuable information to hear again and pass on what is relevant to parents.

[sent]

I see we are 7 pages in but I just remembered. We were lucky in that we absolutely timed this next kid to have almost no chance of being born in December or earlier and giving us another round of the strict Oct. 1 cutoff issue I'm going through with DD. A nice late March birthday that will fall squarely within the rules of our district.

[halfpint]

I say this as someone who waffled on whether to send my kid to 3 yo preschool or pre-k this year (his birthday is right on the cutoff, and he was 3 when he started pre-k this year). I’m glad I sent him - but we are totally experiencing the other side of redshirting. He’s in a class of 5 and sometimes 6 year old kids, and I feel his teacher has unreasonable expectations. To the point where we’ve been referred to meet with the school social worker and AEA specialists for a suspected disability because he doesn’t follow directions well, and can’t write his name. Like, we’re talking about getting dinged because he needs reminders to wash his hands or where to put his folder - not being disruptive. He’s definitely a little behind his classmates per her feedback, but we didn’t have any concerns from his teachers in 3yo preschool/daycare.
I will take the help the are offering and the evaluations, because shit, I don’t know what’s normal 4 year old antics, but I can’t help but feel that some of this stems from unrealistic expectations in a school full of redshirted, UMC white kids.

[isabel]

Jan 26, 2018 15:16:57 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 26, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5 socratic said:

And there we have it what every race discussion ends with...i can't possible be wrong cause i have black (POC) friends and immigrant friends

Shut it!

I was called a Trump supporter because I stated I am considering starting my son with a birth date on the cut off day the next year if he wasn't academically or socially ready per daycare/preK teachers. Either way he would be within 366 days of all the other students in his class, on the younger or older side of the spectrum. Which is at least 1.5 years in the future. It escalated from there. 

So, here's where my confusion comes from... why is your default not that your child will start kindergarten on time, based on the cut-off date? I can understand reconsidering IF his pre-k teachers express concern about his readiness, but you're nowhere near that point. Why has the idea of redshirting him even come into play at this point? And why on earth was it on your mind before he was even born? I truly don't know the cut-off for our district. It honestly hadn't crossed my mind. My kids will start kindergarten when they are supposed to based on the cut-off and their birthdays.

The default for all parents should be that their child will start kindergarten on time based on the age cut-off for their particular district and their child's birthday. Redshirting should only be something that is even thought about when, and if, an educator brings it up to the parents as an option based on that particular child's readiness.

I realize I am way late to this thread, but nobody asked this question and I am genuinely curious why it has even crossed your mind, let alone been a consideration in choosing his birth date.

[incognitony]

.

[tigress]

Jan 27, 2018 13:22:23 GMT -5 isabel said:

Jan 26, 2018 15:16:57 GMT -5 tigress said:

I was called a Trump supporter because I stated I am considering starting my son with a birth date on the cut off day the next year if he wasn't academically or socially ready per daycare/preK teachers. Either way he would be within 366 days of all the other students in his class, on the younger or older side of the spectrum. Which is at least 1.5 years in the future. It escalated from there. 

So, here's where my confusion comes from... why is your default not that your child will start kindergarten on time, based on the cut-off date? I can understand reconsidering IF his pre-k teachers express concern about his readiness, but you're nowhere near that point. Why has the idea of redshirting him even come into play at this point? And why on earth was it on your mind before he was even born? I truly don't know the cut-off for our district. It honestly hadn't crossed my mind. My kids will start kindergarten when they are supposed to based on the cut-off and their birthdays.

The default for all parents should be that their child will start kindergarten on time based on the age cut-off for their particular district and their child's birthday. Redshirting should only be something that is even thought about when, and if, an educator brings it up to the parents as an option based on that particular child's readiness.

I realize I am way late to this thread, but nobody asked this question and I am genuinely curious why it has even crossed your mind, let alone been a consideration in choosing his birth date.

Good thoughts. I appreciate the input. 

[vanillacourage]

[CloudBee]

Jan 27, 2018 12:19:34 GMT -5 halfpint said:

I say this as someone who waffled on whether to send my kid to 3 yo preschool or pre-k this year (his birthday is right on the cutoff, and he was 3 when he started pre-k this year). I’m glad I sent him - but we are totally experiencing the other side of redshirting. He’s in a class of 5 and sometimes 6 year old kids, and I feel his teacher has unreasonable expectations. To the point where we’ve been referred to meet with the school social worker and AEA specialists for a suspected disability because he doesn’t follow directions well, and can’t write his name. Like, we’re talking about getting dinged because he needs reminders to wash his hands or where to put his folder - not being disruptive. He’s definitely a little behind his classmates per her feedback, but we didn’t have any concerns from his teachers in 3yo preschool/daycare.
I will take the help the are offering and the evaluations, because shit, I don’t know what’s normal 4 year old antics, but I can’t help but feel that some of this stems from unrealistic expectations in a school full of redshirted, UMC white kids.

DS started pre-k at age 4.5 and could not write his name from memory. No one was concerned. (March birthday, September pre-k start date.) He'll start K on top at age 5.5. Every morning his teacher has to remind ALL of the kids as they unpack their belongings that they need to wash their hands and check themselves in. (They hang apples with their names on them, on a tree.)

And when I stand outside his classroom every afternoon at pickup, before the doors open to parents, I hear her telling kid after kid that they need to remain in their seat, stop talking, stop poking their friends, etc.

More than half of the kids in his pre-k class are being redshirted. And I would also say that at least half of them also started preschool in the 2's class. He didn't start preschool until the 3's class. So they have THREE years of "school" behind them, and he has one. DS still has little interest in worksheets, and we're being told to sit down as a family and color at home "because he doesn't like coloring at school and this needs to be encouraged." LOL.

I hope hearing this makes you feel better. Someone will always be the oldest, and someone will always be the youngest. We're lucky in that DS has a March birthday, so with all of the redshirting he ends up right in the middle. CT has a 12/31 cut-off for K. He "should" be one of the oldest in his grade, but with the influx of kids being held back in pre-k, many of his classmates this year are 6+ months older than him. That's going to create a huge gap for those with late December birthdays and enroll on time next year.
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[bronxgirl]

Jan 26, 2018 23:54:44 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

why is race being thrown around?



this is straight up white people nonsense.

Girl, I cannot ...
The fragility we are knee deep in from this subgroup.
It’s too damn much.
We found out one of these sad assed insecure bitches , on campus, is bullying my daughter. A grown assed woman, pushing 50 and her 8 year old baby henchmen, trying it with my 7 year-old.

I shit you not. We had to send a (very) strongly worded letter, to the school, earlier this week, talking about, “Please keep horrible mother XYZ, away from Kirkette, during school hours. Our children are not to be enrolled in the same classroom, at any point, during the next 6 years. Also, if said socieopathic parent in question volunteers at any class events, please note, one of the Kirks, and/or our representatives, will be there too, in order to quickly intervene, if MOTY refuses to stay all the way in her lane. Seeing that no one wants a situation, kindly honor our request for partnership in addressing this issue. Thank you and God Bless!”.

SMH
Too damn much!

Let me at her! No one messes with L and gets away with it.