Pre-K Readiness

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2018 11:52:55 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Jan 26, 2018 10:40:16 GMT -5 sent said:

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

We have that same issue here. MD is 9/1. VA and DC 9/30. So if I lived 15 minutes in another direction my 9/3 kid would be a year earlier. And my friend's DD who is a week younger than mine would be a year ahead in school. It makes no sense. And how is a kid born 9/1 ready, but a kid born 9/3 not?

What makes no sense to me is that parents can redshirt with no professional opinion but can't send their kid early.

Either the cutoff should be firm, or there should be leeway on either side. If some random untrained parent is qualified to decide their preshus is NOT ready to go to K, how come you're not qualified to decide that your kid IS ready? So ridiculous.

[hocus2]

Jan 26, 2018 12:17:55 GMT -5 dcn said:

I really wish there was one cutoff nationally.

My ds missed the cutoff here by 12 days. He’s beyond ready academically. Waiting a year for maturity and social skills won’t hurt. But if he been born 2 weeks earlier I would have sent him on time. There wasn’t an option to test in early. I’m a little worried he’ll be bored but hopeful his teacher can deal with that.

Also my sister is a kindergarten teacher and hates red shirting. She has kids who dont know their letters and kids who are reading on the first day. Kids who can sit and listen and kids who have a harder time. Kids who have been to daycare and preschool and kids who have never been to school. That’s what kindergarten is for. To learn all of that and grow and mature. Even with the changing standards and curriculum changes for kindergarteners she feels most kids “catch up” and those that don’t can get the extra help they need.

   I'm not sure states would get on board with that. 

We don't even have a standard number of school days yet which seems like lower hanging fruit . Its usually around 180 but it varies. I think OK has dropped to a 4 day schedule by adding time to each day. I'm very skeptical that really benefits students. There is a diminishing return to adding content goals for each day.

[rbp]

Jan 26, 2018 13:05:46 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

Jan 26, 2018 12:17:55 GMT -5 dcn said:

I really wish there was one cutoff nationally.

My ds missed the cutoff here by 12 days. He’s beyond ready academically. Waiting a year for maturity and social skills won’t hurt. But if he been born 2 weeks earlier I would have sent him on time. There wasn’t an option to test in early. I’m a little worried he’ll be bored but hopeful his teacher can deal with that.

Also my sister is a kindergarten teacher and hates red shirting. She has kids who dont know their letters and kids who are reading on the first day. Kids who can sit and listen and kids who have a harder time. Kids who have been to daycare and preschool and kids who have never been to school. That’s what kindergarten is for. To learn all of that and grow and mature. Even with the changing standards and curriculum changes for kindergarteners she feels most kids “catch up” and those that don’t can get the extra help they need.

   I'm not sure states would get on board with that. 

We don't even have a standard number of school days yet which seems like lower hanging fruit . Its usually around 180 but it varies. I think OK has dropped to a 4 day schedule by adding time to each day. I'm very skeptical that really benefits students. There is a diminishing return to adding content goals for each day.

What do kids do on Fridays? There is a new local school that is doing digital learning on Fridays, which I am curious about, but it is only at the high school level.

[ellipses84]

Jan 26, 2018 9:14:16 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Jan 26, 2018 0:41:29 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

On the flip side, I have a good friend who put her son in K even though I felt he should do one more year of Pre-k, because he had an August bday and was not at all academically ready. Logistically it was easier for their family to have their kids at the same school so she planned to have him repeat K if needed (which can sometimes be challenging to get the school to do). He actually ended up being fine by the end of K, caught up to his peers and went on to 1st grade.

I'm confused, are you a teacher? Or someone who diagnoses whether children have issues which mean they should be held back? Why did you feel he should have done one more year of pre-k? It sounds like not doing it was the right thing. 

His pre-k teacher recommended it but left the final decision up to his parents. They considered it, as they did not feel he was ready and could not do the list of items he was supposed to have mastered by the time he started K that was given to them by the school. They also have another child who is not a twin who is in the same grade because they are close in age and one is right before the cutoff (within 2 weeks) and the other was right after the cutoff. If he was my kid, I probably would have held him back, but that was my opinion at the time, and I’m not saying I would have been right about it. Part of that is the sibling aspect, as they were worried about having one kid struggling in the same class with a sibling and holding him back after K, while his sibling and the rest of the class went onto 1st grade.

[kdubs923]

Both of my kids have late birthdays and will go to K as 5 year olds and turn 6 in the following months.

DS also has an ADHD diagnosis, and the psychologist said the extra year would be good for him. I realize this is a blanket statement that is often made about active/immature boys, but it really frustrates me. It's wreckless for someone to make snap decisions about a child's ability in school without actually knowing them & their capabilities. (In this case, the psychologist that had met with DS for an hour.) Because actually knowing DS & how he operates, I suspect he would perform better if he's with kids that are older and more mature. He tends to model the behavior of those around him, so keeping him with younger kids, who have less impulse control, ability to sit still, etc sounds like a disaster for him. I wish he could be placed with kids that are more mature! Yes, he will seem immature, comparatively, but how else will he learn? Certainly not by being a 6 year old, hanging with 4 year olds. He also finds his own trouble when he's bored, meanwhile if he was challenged, I imagine he'd enjoy school more and have less time to get in trouble.

The excuses normally given for holding back is if there’s some sort of medical need. I don’t get that. We have a diagnosis for DS. His preschool (at a daycare center) does not have nearly as many resources available to him, and the teachers have less experience with the issues he faces. It would be lovely if I could get him into K sooner, get him on a 504 plan, and give him more resources and opportunities than are currently available for him. How is waiting a year going to help if there’s a medical/diagnosis? The child is not going to grow out of it in a year.

I really think holding a child back (not repeating a grade, but redshirting) does them a huge disservice, on so many levels.

(Also coloring my opinion, I went off to K as a 4 year old (and college, as a 17 year old) and I much preferred being the youngest in the group instead of oldest. Everyone always thought I was older for my age - probably because I was used to hanging out with older kids.)

[hocus2]

Jan 26, 2018 13:15:30 GMT -5 rbp said:

Jan 26, 2018 13:05:46 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

   I'm not sure states would get on board with that. 

We don't even have a standard number of school days yet which seems like lower hanging fruit . Its usually around 180 but it varies. I think OK has dropped to a 4 day schedule by adding time to each day. I'm very skeptical that really benefits students. There is a diminishing return to adding content goals for each day.

What do kids do on Fridays? There is a new local school that is doing digital learning on Fridays, which I am curious about, but it is only at the high school level.

   Schools are closed on Monday or Friday and as far as I can tell it is pretty much up to families to sort out care, though some schools offer after-school like programming for a fee on the off day. The articles I've read don't focus on that specific issue but more on the impacts on achievement and teacher retention. 

 www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/with-state-budget-in-crisis-many-oklahoma-schools-hold-classes-four-days-a-week/2017/05/27/24f73288-3cb8-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.c7b312c1e388

[ellipses84]

Jan 26, 2018 9:21:34 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

april/may/june birthdays being redshirted??

ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS?

You are also talking about state cutoff dates varying from August through December, so a June bday for an August cutoff is like an October bday for a December cutoff. I do wish the dates were more consistent. People move across state lines all the time! I actually had an issue because I moved to a different country when I was 5 and had just missed the cutoff for K that year, but was older than I was “supposed” to be in the new country.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2018 13:18:39 GMT -5 kdubs923 said:

Both of my kids have late birthdays and will go to K as 5 year olds and turn 6 in the following months.

DS also has an ADHD diagnosis, and the psychologist said the extra year would be good for him. I realize this is a blanket statement that is often made about active/immature boys, but it really frustrates me. It's wreckless for someone to make snap decisions about a child's ability in school without actually knowing them & their capabilities. (In this case, the psychologist that had met with DS for an hour.) Because actually knowing DS & how he operates, I suspect he would perform better if he's with kids that are older and more mature. He tends to model the behavior of those around him, so keeping him with younger kids, who have less impulse control, ability to sit still, etc sounds like a disaster for him. I wish he could be placed with kids that are more mature! Yes, he will seem immature, comparatively, but how else will he learn? Certainly not by being a 6 year old, hanging with 4 year olds. He also finds his own trouble when he's bored, meanwhile if he was challenged, I imagine he'd enjoy school more and have less time to get in trouble.

The excuses normally given for holding back is if there’s some sort of medical need. I don’t get that. We have a diagnosis for DS. His preschool (at a daycare center) does not have nearly as many resources available to him, and the teachers have less experience with the issues he faces. It would be lovely if I could get him into K sooner, get him on a 504 plan, and give him more resources and opportunities than are currently available for him. How is waiting a year going to help if there’s a medical/diagnosis? The child is not going to grow out of it in a year.

I really think holding a child back (not repeating a grade, but redshirting) does them a huge disservice, on so many levels.

(Also coloring my opinion, I went off to K as a 4 year old (and college, as a 17 year old) and I much preferred being the youngest in the group instead of oldest. Everyone always thought I was older for my age - probably because I was used to hanging out with older kids.)

It would give you an extra year to cure him with essential oils. HTH!

[ellipsis]

Jan 26, 2018 9:37:55 GMT -5 rbp said:

Jan 25, 2018 14:37:47 GMT -5 pugz said:

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

From what I can tell my county does not accept 5yos in public pre-K. But I'm pretty sure you can get around that by putting your 5yo in private pre-K and then enrolling them in public K at 6.

Yes I recently asked a friend who has been vocal about redshirting BOTH of her daughters with August birthdays. I can't really wrap my brain around saying no to GA's free pre-K for TWO kids, but you do you I guess. The excuses for her older girl are that she's small for her age and gets frustrated when she sees older kids doing things that she can't do (she's THREE!). Welp, glad that mommy and daddy can pave the way for a setting up a lifetime of no frustration, right?

[Deleted]

Things will have to be DIRE before I will hold babyharpy back. Our district has universal K4 with cheap aftercare available. Our daycare center charges $14,000/year for ages 3-6. If I put $14,000 in an investment account and let it sit for 14 years, I might actually be able to help babyharpy with college.

[icedcoffee]

Jan 25, 2018 18:13:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:11:35 GMT -5 frlcb said:

An April birthday? Get out of here with that. Unless there is a documented, diagnosed reason there is NO reason to hold back an April birthday child. At all. 

Also, how can you expect a child to mature when you put them in a classroom with kids who are a year younger. It's somewhat counterproductive. I am in a classroom, and I can tell you there is no doubt about who the kids are who have been held back because of their birthdays. By 3rd and 4th grade most of them are bored.

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

[redheadk]

I get why it would be helpful to have hard dates nationally but as far as being arbitrary, eh. It would just be helpful to generally have a 12-month age spread, regardless of the cut-off date chosen.

I basically discount the opinion of any teacher who advocates for redshirting across the board for late birthdays and consider them both lazy and uninformed. Sorry, I’m not interested in my child knowing everything you are supposed to teach her in K before she starts K, and this includes understanding and being able to perform the mechanics of school. Children who are redshirted should be outliers. I’m thinking more of kids in PPCD who the ARD team decides, based on data, to hold a child back a year so that they can be successfully mainstreamed. But not little Johnny that mommy is just so afraid that he’s growing up and might have to actually, you know, try.

[rbp]

Jan 26, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:13:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

That's tough though, because I can see how it would be hard on a kid socially and destroy their confidence to suddenly be with a new cohort in 3rd grade. Whereas I imagine that repeating pre-K or K wouldn't be much of a disruption.

[clseale]

Jan 26, 2018 9:21:34 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

april/may/june birthdays being redshirted??

ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS?

I was talking to someone recently who told me my MARCH baby was going to have a tough time. WAT?! I am a mid-July baby and I did just fine TYVM!

[icedcoffee]

Jan 26, 2018 13:39:05 GMT -5 rbp said:

Jan 26, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

That's tough though, because I can see how it would be hard on a kid socially and destroy their confidence to suddenly be with a new cohort in 3rd grade. Whereas I imagine that repeating pre-K or K wouldn't be much of a disruption.

Yeah I agree with that.  I think one of the big points was that most of the kids that may have appeared to be behind at 4 or 5 will have caught up by 3rd grade so there would be A LOT fewer kids held back in general.  

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:13:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

My DD is 100% for height and then if she wears an afro puff pony she looks even taller. She is a kindergartener that is almost as tall as my average size 3rd grader. People are always commenting on how big she is. If there are others that are her height people don't comment on it as much as she's not seen as out of the ordinary. I only included the height comment because her friend that repeated K is tall like her so she has a cohort in height and it makes me happy (even though it appears her parents have done her a great disservice to have her repeat a year per the consensus here). That's all. I wasn't discussing it in relation to whether or not someone would/should redshirt. 

[NandaB]

Jan 25, 2018 14:48:18 GMT -5 @lindy said:

My son is only 2 and I want to send him to preschool next year, he turns 3 two weeks before the cut off. I already have people telling me to hold him back! If he really struggles in pre-k in two years I will consider holding him back with teacher recommendation but for now, I plan on sending him on time. He has a speech delay but he could very well catch up or it might not impact him that much.

A kid with special needs is exactly the kind of kid who shouldn't be held back though. That's one less year of services, peer modeling, and instruction from an actual teacher who went to teacher school.

[ribollita]

Jan 26, 2018 11:39:16 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 26, 2018 11:15:56 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't get what this maturity is that kids need in K? We live in a very competitive area still at our K info night they told us all kids need to know coming in is the letters in their names.

There is no requirement that they sit all day. My kid rotates stations every 15 minutes or so. Stations involves things like playing learning games on the ipad, coloring, counting with beads, table bowling, playing with toys, writer's workshop (they tell a story through pictures or words). When they aren't doing stations they are listening to stories or playing games or going on scavenger hunts in the school. They have afternoons full of specials like music, art and PE and have recess twice a day. I think the most they have to sit and stay still is during lunch. In fact, I am 99% sure my 2 year olds daycare requires more sitting and staying still than my child's kindergarten does. Otherwise, I don't get what maturity is needed. There are still kids that break down crying occasionally. There are still kids that are super tired or cranky. It is normal, the teachers aren't put off by it. I mean heck, I went to a party at my kids school and he broke down in sobs when I left AND he is the oldest in the class. It happens.

I guess I just don't get how someone could not be ready for K.

I started K at 4 and never felt like it damaged me in any way.

Our K teachers said at kindergarten round up that it is strongly recommended that kids know all the letters in the alphabet and what sounds they make, numbers up to 20, well practiced in cutting/scissors for hand strength, their address and phone number (for safety obviously) among other things. Its a public school so I'm sure there are kids coming in that can't do these things. My DDs were fine. I don't know how much other kids struggled that didn't have these skills upon entering. 

My summer birthday boy was behind his peers on scissor skills in K. Guess what, his K teacher sent home a backpack full of fine motor activities and he caught up. Delaying him a year for that would have been ridiculous.

My summer birthday son missed an entire month of K due to medical issues and is still doing well in 1st.

SMH * 100.

Also: applause to @choco.

[ribollita]

Jan 26, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:13:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

Yes, IIRC, @kirkette taught us that up until 3rd they learn to read, then they read to learn.

[andwhat]

Jan 26, 2018 12:59:43 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jan 26, 2018 11:52:55 GMT -5 andwhat said:

We have that same issue here. MD is 9/1. VA and DC 9/30. So if I lived 15 minutes in another direction my 9/3 kid would be a year earlier. And my friend's DD who is a week younger than mine would be a year ahead in school. It makes no sense. And how is a kid born 9/1 ready, but a kid born 9/3 not?

What makes no sense to me is that parents can redshirt with no professional opinion but can't send their kid early.

Either the cutoff should be firm, or there should be leeway on either side. If some random untrained parent is qualified to decide their preshus is NOT ready to go to K, how come you're not qualified to decide that your kid IS ready? So ridiculous.

In MD you can test a kid born between 9/2 and 10/15 for K early entry, but not Pre-K and it doesn't allow you entry into specialty schools like language immersion, STEM, etc. So the will only ever be on traditional public. Because from what I have heard it is almost impossible to get in later. So it still limits you and is arbitrary. It makes me want to run for school board.

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 14:41:40 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

Jan 26, 2018 13:51:15 GMT -5 tigress said:

My DD is 100% for height and then if she wears an afro puff pony she looks even taller. She is a kindergartener that is almost as tall as my average size 3rd grader. People are always commenting on how big she is. If there are others that are her height people don't comment on it as much as she's not seen as out of the ordinary. I only included the height comment because her friend that repeated K is tall like her so she has a cohort in height and it makes me happy (even though it appears her parents have done her a great disservice to have her repeat a year per the consensus here). That's all. I wasn't discussing it in relation to whether or not someone would/should redshirt. 

 it's fine for kids to stand out and be different, holy shit. and i'm not a breezy parent by any means.

Yes its fine. OMG everything I say is just a disaster. 

There is nothing wrong with her. But my mom was tall as a kid and it was always mentioned and it made her self conscious about her height in her elementary school years. My friend's daughter is very thin and every comments about how skinny she is so it makes her self conscious about it. Can you not relate to that? 

Its great that she's tall. But you know how kids and adults say insensitive things sometimes. I just don't want her to feel badly or self conscious unnecessarily because obviously she has nothing to feel bad about. And when someone inevitably says something to her that hurts her feelings (height related or otherwise) obviously we deal with it and talk through it with her. 

Please stop making me out to be some villain. 

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2018 13:51:57 GMT -5 NandaB said:

Jan 25, 2018 14:48:18 GMT -5 @lindy said:

My son is only 2 and I want to send him to preschool next year, he turns 3 two weeks before the cut off. I already have people telling me to hold him back! If he really struggles in pre-k in two years I will consider holding him back with teacher recommendation but for now, I plan on sending him on time. He has a speech delay but he could very well catch up or it might not impact him that much.

A kid with special needs is exactly the kind of kid who shouldn't be held back though. That's one less year of services, peer modeling, and instruction from an actual teacher who went to teacher school.

Oh I agree!  He's in 0-3 year services now, and I really hope he gets accepted into the public preschool so he can continue with those.  I have been super impressed with the free services he has received here, and I'm glad they offer them!

[spk926]

Jan 26, 2018 14:02:03 GMT -5 ribollita said:

Jan 26, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

This is so freaking strange to me.  Why do people keep bringing height into this discussion?  I had no idea I had to worry about the height of my kids' peers.

In any event, I read somewhere (probably here--lol) that 3rd grade is actually the grade that "levels the playing field" and that if a kid is to be held back that is actually the ideal time to do it because it becomes clearer at that point whether they are actually struggling or something like that.  This is obviously not my profession, but it was interesting because it stressed that making a decision on whether your kid is average at 4 or 5 years old is ridiculous.

Yes, IIRC, @kirkette taught us that up until 3rd they learn to read, then they read to learn.

That's actually an outdated thought in education. Reading to learn and learning to read happen simultaneously through elementary and beyond. Obviously in K-2 more focus is on phonics and the foundation of reading skills but that's not to say students aren't learning as they read - they are! Same goes for upper grades as yes they are learning but they are also still learning how to read and become more fluent, comprehend better, etc. 

Yes, 3rd grade is a pretty pivotal year in education when it comes to reading. If a student isn't reading proficiently by the end of 3rd grade they are four times more likely to drop out of high school. At my school we have dedicated reading intervention programs just for 3rd and 4th graders who aren't reading at grade level. The goal is to get them as close to grade level as we can because studies show it has a great impact on their success through school. 

Two quick examples of what I mean. There are plenty more out there. 
teacher.scholastic.com/professional/readexpert/mythread.htm

www.educationcorner.com/learning-to-read-to-read-to-learn.html

In MN the cutoff is 9/1. I've had students with an 8/31 birth date and those with 9/2 birthdays. Their birthday doesn't always correlate to their academic achievement. I wish it was mandatory (barring special circumstances the school district has found) to send your child to K on time. That will never happen, but I wish it could. 

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5 socratic said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:02:49 GMT -5 tigress said:

My son is biracial. My husband is an immigrant.

You have me all figured out.

And there we have it what every race discussion ends with...i can't possible be wrong cause i have black (POC) friends and immigrant friends

Shut it!

I was called a Trump supporter because I stated I am considering starting my son with a birth date on the cut off day the next year if he wasn't academically or socially ready per daycare/preK teachers. Either way he would be within 366 days of all the other students in his class, on the younger or older side of the spectrum. Which is at least 1.5 years in the future. It escalated from there. 

The above was just a response to the general consensus that by not starting him in K when he is 4 I would be putting my precious white boy first so he could be special and advanced and more privileged than he already is and turn into an asshole white man. 

If that makes me a racist in your mind then I guess there's not a whole lot I can say to change that. 

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 15:14:33 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

Jan 26, 2018 15:04:12 GMT -5 tigress said:

Yes its fine. OMG everything I say is just a disaster. 

There is nothing wrong with her. But my mom was tall as a kid and it was always mentioned and it made her self conscious about her height in her elementary school years. My friend's daughter is very thin and every comments about how skinny she is so it makes her self conscious about it. Can you not relate to that? 

Its great that she's tall. But you know how kids and adults say insensitive things sometimes. I just don't want her to feel badly or self conscious unnecessarily because obviously she has nothing to feel bad about. And when someone inevitably says something to her that hurts her feelings (height related or otherwise) obviously we deal with it and talk through it with her. 

Please stop making me out to be some villain. 

i'm not making you out to be a villain. it just seems like you are creating and then "protecting" you kids from countless issues. whatever, do you.

fwiw, my kid is 100% for height, too. she tells me she's just smarter and stronger than her classmates lol. different approaches, i guess.

But I don't know that I have that different of a thought process. I mean yes I guess I hope bullies don't find things to pick on my kid about, but even if she wasn't tall I'm sure they would find something else. And we will deal with it. I have done nothing to "protect" her from being tall. I just recognized someone else in her class was tall. I thought "cool". Life went on. But I feel like its getting twisted into me being a coddling mother. 

Its good for kids to struggle and figure stuff out on their own. I agree. But when I said early on in this thread that I would try to do what's best for my son relating to K starting date (per what educational professionals recommended) then I was protecting my precious white boy so he could be oh so advanced than anyone else. Which was not what I said. Or meant. 

And then I became a Trump supporter. ETA: I am not. I was told it was because of people like me that Trump was elected. 

I have apologized earlier for causing any trouble in this thread. I feel like much of what I have said has been twisted into something it was never intended to be. No I don't think its right in general for kids to be a year and a half older than other kids in their class. Of course give your kid the benefit of the doubt and let them try to do their best. I'm sorry y'all got such a bad impression on me. I agree with very much in this thread. 

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5 socratic said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:02:49 GMT -5 tigress said:

My son is biracial. My husband is an immigrant.

You have me all figured out.

And there we have it what every race discussion ends with...i can't possible be wrong cause i have black (POC) friends and immigrant friends

Shut it!

And I knew I shouldn't say it. I almost didn't. I shouldn't have. Bc I knew it would be taken like that. 

I understand now that this is quite the hot button issue. Like I have said again and again, I agree with much of it. Most of it. All of it even? I wasn't disagreeing with people I don't think. My son would be the same age as his peers if he started at 4 or 5, he would be on either side of the spectrum. I said I was not ruling things out and would consider starting him at 5 instead of 4 if that was best then I became a white man enabler. I'm not trying to backpedal on what I have said. 

I don't know that I said that I was right and everyone else was wrong. Did I? Or did I imply that? 

I know I should just need to leave this thread and come back. I'm getting more upset by this than I should by a message board. 

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 16:16:33 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jan 26, 2018 15:16:57 GMT -5 tigress said:

I was called a Trump supporter because I stated I am considering starting my son with a birth date on the cut off day the next year if he wasn't academically or socially ready per daycare/preK teachers. Either way he would be within 366 days of all the other students in his class, on the younger or older side of the spectrum. Which is at least 1.5 years in the future. It escalated from there. 

The above was just a response to the general consensus that by not starting him in K when he is 4 I would be putting my precious white boy first so he could be special and advanced and more privileged than he already is and turn into an asshole white man. 

If that makes me a racist in your mind then I guess there's not a whole lot I can say to change that. 

Again nobody called you racist.
You keep throwing that red herring out like a bomb to derail the discussion.

I'm sorry. 

I know nobody said it but I feel like it was implied when saying its people like me that got Trump elected looking out for the white man's best interest. If that was NOT how I should take that, I'm sorry. Its so very far from what I believe. 

I am sorry. 

[Ashley&Scott]

Jan 26, 2018 16:12:17 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 26, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5 socratic said:

And there we have it what every race discussion ends with...i can't possible be wrong cause i have black (POC) friends and immigrant friends

Shut it!

And I knew I shouldn't say it. I almost didn't. I shouldn't have. Bc I knew it would be taken like that. 

I understand now that this is quite the hot button issue. Like I have said again and again, I agree with much of it. Most of it. All of it even? I wasn't disagreeing with people I don't think. My son would be the same age as his peers if he started at 4 or 5, he would be on either side of the spectrum. I said I was not ruling things out and would consider starting him at 5 instead of 4 if that was best then I became a white man enabler. I'm not trying to backpedal on what I have said. 

I don't know that I said that I was right and everyone else was wrong. Did I? Or did I imply that? 

I know I should just need to leave this thread and come back. I'm getting more upset by this than I should by a message board. 

You keep emphasizing that he would be starting at 4yo. Yes, technically he'll be 4 but it would only be for a few weeks &  it is in line with the school/state's dates. If you wait until he's actually 5 to start K then he will be 6 years old for 90% of his kindergarten year. Schools set the cut off date with the intention that they year a child turns 5 they start K.  By red shirting your kid you are skewing the average age up which then impacts curriculum & everyone else as a result. 

And FWIW, my son seems to do better with older kids. I loved it when he moved up a class in DC because he had so much learning & growth both in skills & maturity as a result. 

[curbsideprophet]

Jan 26, 2018 13:51:15 GMT -5 tigress said:

My DD is 100% for height and then if she wears an afro puff pony she looks even taller. She is a kindergartener that is almost as tall as my average size 3rd grader. People are always commenting on how big she is. If there are others that are her height people don't comment on it as much as she's not seen as out of the ordinary. I only included the height comment because her friend that repeated K is tall like her so she has a cohort in height and it makes me happy (even though it appears her parents have done her a great disservice to have her repeat a year per the consensus here). That's all. I wasn't discussing it in relation to whether or not someone would/should redshirt. 

No one is saying that. In fact, they are saying send your kid on time so you have the option to hold back in K if needed. You will really throw the age range out of order if you redshirt based just on birthday and then run into problems later.

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 16:51:30 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jan 26, 2018 16:27:44 GMT -5 tigress said:

I'm sorry. 

I know nobody said it but I feel like it was implied when saying its people like me that got Trump elected looking out for the white man's best interest. If that was NOT how I should take that, I'm sorry. Its so very far from what I believe. 

I am sorry. 

But that’s not when you dropped the bomb. Both times you brought up being called racist was when I said being married to a non-white person doesn’t mean you’re immune to problematic behavior and just now when socratic basically said the same thing.

I am saying this gently especially because you are raising biracial children- examine why those are the things that made you felt like you were being called racist.

In the past we have had white members of this board who were married to MoC who were oblivious to the challenges their SO and potentially their children deal with.

Your lack of understanding about how race came into play in this specific discussion suggests that you might also not be as aware as you think you are. Especially when you use your husband and child to bolster your defense.

Thank you. 

I know I don't understand everything there is to know about the challenges POC face. I'm not against learning. I never really had thought about the correlation in this issue before. It doesn't mean I dispute it. I felt like I was treated as though I was arguing that starting kids way earlier than they should wouldn't impact others. I never did dispute that. 

andwhat and connie mentioned coddling white men and white women giving unfair advantages to their precious babies. I (probably incorrectly) felt like they were talking to me, and I for sure was too sensitive. I didn't understand what I had said that made me an asshole white woman, I wasn't trying to stick my kid in school for him to be extra special old kid to beat everybody else. I'm sorry I was too sensitive. 

I do understand and am more aware now. While, like I said, I hadn't really pondered the specific implications of kids of color and people starting their kids inappropriately early, even without race considered I agreed that its unfair to hold kids back for no reason. 

I wasn't defending anything by stating I have an immigrant H and biracial kids except that I am not here to push white men only forward. I really meant nothing else by it. 

I see I took people's comments as direct attacks against me. That was self centered and stupid. I am sorry.