Pre-K Readiness

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 17:44:27 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 tigress said:

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

How Trump was elected, everybody.

For the record definitely voted for Hillary.

A lot of assumptions being made about me.

[konapoppy]

Jan 25, 2018 17:50:35 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 17:44:27 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

How Trump was elected, everybody.

For the record definitely voted for Hillary.

A lot of assumptions being made about me.

You might not have, but white men and women putting white men’s “best interest” first certainly did.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 17:59:46 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

Jan 25, 2018 17:50:35 GMT -5 tigress said:

For the record definitely voted for Hillary.

A lot of assumptions being made about me.

You might not have, but white men and women putting white men’s “best interest” first certainly did.

My son is biracial. My husband is an immigrant.

You have me all figured out.

[mccallister84]

Jan 25, 2018 17:48:30 GMT -5 luv2rn4fun said:

Our cutoff date here (CA) is 9/1 (must be 5). Both boys miss the cutoff. DS1 starts preschool next weds and for some reason I thought he would do preschool this year and 2018/19, TK 2019/20, and start kindergarten in 2020. But TK is only offered for bdays 9/2-12/2 so it looks like he will basically be repeating pre-k3 next year and we will be paying for preschool for an additional year than we had hoped. I really wish he could start kindergarten in 2019 and feel that he would actually be ready (academically he is very close to kids born in July/August). As it stands now he will graduate HS at 19.5 years old...that seems really old (I was held back for maturity reasons and still graduated just before 19). Same for DS2, especially since he is so close to the cutoff (9/27 bday). I don’t get holding back unless there is a definite reason too.

Wait how is he going to graduate at 19.5 if he starts on time?

He’ll be 5 on 9/1 of kindergarten year, turning 6 at some point, which puts him at 17 on 9/1 of senior year. Even if his birthday is 9/2 (which judging by your TK remark it isn’t) he would be at most of 18.75 at graduation.

[frlcb]

Jan 25, 2018 11:41:20 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

I would send. DS goes to public school. He is in 3rd grade. Only 1 kid in the class is a year older than the others, and he was retained in after kinder for very specific reasons. It was the same in my daughter's class, when we were in APS. Maybe 2 kids were redshirts, out of 23.

It was suggested by a private pre-K that DD be retained after pre-k, but I did not do it. She didn't really know her letters or numbers, at the end of pre-k. I sent her anyway, and she got Orton-Guillinham tutoring for dyslexia, starting in 1st grade. Holding her back would have only delayed getting her help another year, not solved the problem.

The only people I see redshirting are kids who are going to places like Westminster, where most kids do Pre-first, and go for an extra year.

Westminster doesn't have a pre-first. They call their kindergarten year pre-first. They just don't like to accept kids with a summer birthday, along with other 'big' private schools. The tide is changing at our K-8 private school and more and more parents are sending their Summer birthday kids to school on time (and in my daughters 1st grade class we have two girls who turned 6 after Sept 1, one skipped K and the other did K somewhere else privately and they let her enter in 1st despite her age)

[frlcb]

Jan 25, 2018 12:39:05 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:35:28 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Of course you are free to contribute to the issue. Have at it.

Honestly if he was an August or July birth month baby I probably wouldn't consider it. And again, if daycare says I should send him bc he's ready, then great. I know a few people, though, that held their kids back even with June birthdays, and then my DD's best friend in K that did K last year and then switched schools and is repeating as an April birthday and none of them regret it. Why push it? If he seems super ready, great. If not, why is it the worst thing in the world to give him a year to mature more?

An April birthday? Get out of here with that. Unless there is a documented, diagnosed reason there is NO reason to hold back an April birthday child. At all. 

Also, how can you expect a child to mature when you put them in a classroom with kids who are a year younger. It's somewhat counterproductive. I am in a classroom, and I can tell you there is no doubt about who the kids are who have been held back because of their birthdays. By 3rd and 4th grade most of them are bored.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 18:11:35 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Jan 25, 2018 12:39:05 GMT -5 tigress said:

Honestly if he was an August or July birth month baby I probably wouldn't consider it. And again, if daycare says I should send him bc he's ready, then great. I know a few people, though, that held their kids back even with June birthdays, and then my DD's best friend in K that did K last year and then switched schools and is repeating as an April birthday and none of them regret it. Why push it? If he seems super ready, great. If not, why is it the worst thing in the world to give him a year to mature more?

An April birthday? Get out of here with that. Unless there is a documented, diagnosed reason there is NO reason to hold back an April birthday child. At all. 

Also, how can you expect a child to mature when you put them in a classroom with kids who are a year younger. It's somewhat counterproductive. I am in a classroom, and I can tell you there is no doubt about who the kids are who have been held back because of their birthdays. By 3rd and 4th grade most of them are bored.

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

[frlcb]

Jan 25, 2018 18:13:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:11:35 GMT -5 frlcb said:

An April birthday? Get out of here with that. Unless there is a documented, diagnosed reason there is NO reason to hold back an April birthday child. At all. 

Also, how can you expect a child to mature when you put them in a classroom with kids who are a year younger. It's somewhat counterproductive. I am in a classroom, and I can tell you there is no doubt about who the kids are who have been held back because of their birthdays. By 3rd and 4th grade most of them are bored.

That girl did kindergarten and then I guess her parents decided to change schools and hold her back because she struggled academically last year in K. So she’s repeating. I’m glad bc she is tall like my DD.

Again, unless there is a documented diagnosis there is no reason to hold back an April birthday. If this child has that then she doesn't belong in this conversation, because her situation is different.

[luv2rn4fun]

Jan 25, 2018 18:04:43 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

Jan 25, 2018 17:48:30 GMT -5 luv2rn4fun said:

Our cutoff date here (CA) is 9/1 (must be 5). Both boys miss the cutoff. DS1 starts preschool next weds and for some reason I thought he would do preschool this year and 2018/19, TK 2019/20, and start kindergarten in 2020. But TK is only offered for bdays 9/2-12/2 so it looks like he will basically be repeating pre-k3 next year and we will be paying for preschool for an additional year than we had hoped. I really wish he could start kindergarten in 2019 and feel that he would actually be ready (academically he is very close to kids born in July/August). As it stands now he will graduate HS at 19.5 years old...that seems really old (I was held back for maturity reasons and still graduated just before 19). Same for DS2, especially since he is so close to the cutoff (9/27 bday). I don’t get holding back unless there is a definite reason too.

Wait how is he going to graduate at 19.5 if he starts on time?

He’ll be 5 on 9/1 of kindergarten year, turning 6 at some point, which puts him at 17 on 9/1 of senior year. Even if his birthday is 9/2 (which judging by your TK remark it isn’t) he would be at most of 18.75 at graduation.

Sorry, you are correct. My dads cousin (who is a principal at a private school) did the math for me today...that’s what I was going off of and it’s not correct. His bday is 12/2014. He starts K in 2020. He will be 18.5 when he graduates (or close depending on when the school year starts/ends. That seems a lot more realistic (DS2 will be 18.75 with a 9/27 bday).

[erbear]

Jan 25, 2018 16:14:22 GMT -5 tigress said:

My race comment was more towards andwhat discussing production of coddled white men because a child started kindergarten at 5 instead of 4.

She's (correctly) made the leap that by red-shirting kids, we continue to not allow them to fail, because they will be a full year older than a typical kid in the class. And we do this because we don't want our precious snowflakes to feel bad about themselves if they can't do something, so we go out of our ways to put them only in situations where they have an advantage for success (on top of just being, you know, white and male).

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 18:33:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:14:22 GMT -5 tigress said:

My race comment was more towards andwhat discussing production of coddled white men because a child started kindergarten at 5 instead of 4.

She's (correctly) made the leap that by red-shirting kids, we continue to not allow them to fail, because they will be a full year older than a typical kid in the class. And we do this because we don't want our precious snowflakes to feel bad about themselves if they can't do something, so we go out of our ways to put them only in situations where they have an advantage for success (on top of just being, you know, white and male).

Sure. I don't disagree with this. 

If I start my son with his cutoff birthday when he is 4, he will almost surely be the youngest. Which may not be bad. But it might not be great. 

If I start my son when he is 5, he could be a whole one day older than the person that didn't make the cutoff with the 9/16 birthday. 

He will either be the oldest or the youngest in the class. 

[lo]

I was redshirted with a September birthday and when I turned 21 I went to the movies since none of my friends were 21 yet. Just think of that!!

I teach 1st so I see a wide range of ages and everyone is fine. The younger kids are not behind the older kids and the range of abilities is always varied. I do work in an urban school with a high poverty rate and the cutoff is 12/1, so I get a lot of kids on the younger side. Believe me, it’s fine.

[mccallister84]

Jan 25, 2018 18:50:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:33:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

She's (correctly) made the leap that by red-shirting kids, we continue to not allow them to fail, because they will be a full year older than a typical kid in the class. And we do this because we don't want our precious snowflakes to feel bad about themselves if they can't do something, so we go out of our ways to put them only in situations where they have an advantage for success (on top of just being, you know, white and male).

Sure. I don't disagree with this. 

If I start my son with his cutoff birthday when he is 4, he will almost surely be the youngest. Which may not be bad. But it might not be great. 

If I start my son when he is 5, he could be a whole one day older than the person that didn't make the cutoff with the 9/16 birthday. 

He will either be the oldest or the youngest in the class. 

Someone will always be the oldest or the youngest in the class. No matter what.

But it shouldn’t be your decision to make - there is a cut off date and it should be followed end of story.

It’s a slippery slope. Which is why everyone needs to just play by the rules.

[anastasia517]

As almost everyone else says, just send your kids on time unless professionals have decided it is best to send them a year later.

Here we have Junior Kindergarten (sort of a universal pre-K) and you start the calendar year you turn 4. Kids born between Labour Day and 12/31 are 3 when they start full time, all day school. Skipping JK just results in you being placed in Senior K the next year, so there are a LOT of kids who start school full time at 3. They do fine since the only real requirement is you have to be completely toilet trained... knowing their colours, numbers, letters and the like are nice but if they don't know them that's what school is for.

Everyone benefits from only having a 12-month spread in ages, kids and teachers alike. Don't underestimate your kid.

[curbsideprophet]

Jan 25, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

why is race being thrown around?

you find me a POC who would consider changing their c/s date for their unborn child so that they can be born after the kindergarten cutoff, thus being older when entering K, and I will eat fucking crow.

this is straight up white people nonsense.

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

But it would not be early, it would just be on time.

I get it, my daughter was born a couple days before the cut off. She came on her own 10 days early. Had she been born on her due date she would be in Kindergarten this year instead of first grade.

I think you are doing your child a disservice if you hold them back based only on the day they were born.

I also think it is short sighted to think your decisions on such topics do not impact anyone else.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 19:26:47 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:02:49 GMT -5 tigress said:

My son is biracial. My husband is an immigrant.

You have me all figured out.

The people you are related to by marriage or by being their mother don’t automatically make you “woke”.

This is way too close to having a black friend.

For you to ask how race comes into it shows you are far from understanding the systemic racism. Your son may not be white but you are behaving very much like a white woman putting your son’s (non existent) “problem” ahead of the greater good.

I never said my son had a problem. I said we are considering it. If we confer with the teachers (daycare/preK/K) and they think he's ready then we will have him start on time. I feel its something to think about in the next year or two until we get to that point. I never said we are dead set on it. In my real life I haven't heard of anyone else's kid starting K when they are 4. So that's my background of my decision making in this situation. From what I know, people are 5 or older when they start K. 

As I said earlier, obviously that differs. I have new thoughts to consider so thank you all for your responses. I'm sorry I hijacked the thread.

I see and understand where you are all coming from. I understand how holding your child back just so they are older with that being the only consideration would impact others. I understand. I'm not trying to start my kid in K when he's 6 because he's so precious and special. 

You all have surely make your own opinion on whether that makes me woke or not. Or a Trump supporter or a racist. 

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 tigress said:

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

But it would not be early, it would just be on time.

I get it, my daughter was born a couple days before the cut off. She came on her own 10 days early. Had she been born on her due date she would be in Kindergarten this year instead of first grade.

I think you are doing your child a disservice if you hold them back based only on the day they were born.

I also think it is short sighted to think your decisions on such topics do not impact anyone else.

True. It seems so early to me. 

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2018 19:48:08 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

But it would not be early, it would just be on time.

I get it, my daughter was born a couple days before the cut off. She came on her own 10 days early. Had she been born on her due date she would be in Kindergarten this year instead of first grade.

I think you are doing your child a disservice if you hold them back based only on the day they were born.

I also think it is short sighted to think your decisions on such topics do not impact anyone else.

True. It seems so early to me. 

So, he'll be 4 for a whole 3.5 weeks out of how many weeks in the total school year? He'll be 5 for the majority of kindergarten. Send him on time. 

[ribollita]

The “only 4” think always has me SMH.
4 years and 360 days is not magically younger than 5 years and 5 days. Age is a continuous variable. But, there has to be a cutoff and barring any diagnoses or other extenuating circumstances,, send your kid on time.

Off topic but whatever happened to poster hens? She always contributed to the red shirt threads.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 19:53:58 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 25, 2018 19:48:08 GMT -5 tigress said:

True. It seems so early to me. 

So, he'll be 4 for a whole 3.5 weeks out of how many weeks in the total school year? He'll be 5 for the majority of kindergarten. Send him on time. 

Ok.

[ilikedonuts]

I'm still pissed a kid in my daughter's K class just turned 7 at the beginning of this month. He's 20 months older then some of the kids. It's ridiculous.

[redheadk]

Either your kid is ready, so he should go, or he’s not, in which case the best place for him is pre-k where he can get help.

I do not understand the idea of not giving your child an opportunity to rise to the occasion. I do not want my child to be the kindergartener that was red-shirted and reading chapter books of to the side because that is some absurd nonsense right there (a friend’s son and she is vocal that she made the wrong choice). I want my kid to have to learn to put forth some effort, to try, to struggle, and achieve things that required real work on her part. It’s better in the long run if they learn how to really work for something.

My dd is a younger K student. She’s going to first next year. If she truly wasn’t ready, she could repeat K. But why not give them a chance? Kids will quite often surprise you with what they can learn and do if given the opportunity.

And that doesn’t even touch on the privilege of redshirting your kid.

April birthdays being redshirted, my god.

[pugz]

Jan 25, 2018 21:41:51 GMT -5 ilikedonuts said:

I'm still pissed a kid in my daughter's K class just turned 7 at the beginning of this month. He's 20 months older then some of the kids. It's ridiculous.

ugggggggghhhhhhh 

[pugz]

I will say, I am so glad there are so many women here that really get it when we talk about this issue.

I wish there was a way for the masses to get it too. I've introduced information about this topic in mom groups before and some people do start to see the broader perspective but for the most part it's "nope, my kid, I know best, I'm going to redshirt." And a lot of "you'll never regret redshirting your kid!" from parents that have done it and a lot of teachers echoing that sentiment too.

redheadbaker really interesting that you have a friend of a boy that says she regrets it! We need more of those stories out there.

[ellipses84]

I’d enroll him in pre-k and have him do 2 years of it if you feel he’s not ready for K at the end of the first year. Redshirting is so common now, especially for boys, so he may be the youngest in his class by far if you don’t. My nephews have June and September bdays - the Sept. is right at the cutoff. Their parents redshirted them and they are in 2nd grade. It was definitely the right choice for both of them. Socially they just weren’t ready for full day school. My DS has a May bday and it was a passing thought, but he went through daycare preschool and pre-k and was so ready for K, so I think he would have been bored if I held him back. He’s in 1st grade now and it was the right choice, but he always seems to be one of the youngest boys in his class (I know from going to so many classmate bday parties).

[ellipses84]

On the flip side, I have a good friend who put her son in K even though I felt he should do one more year of Pre-k, because he had an August bday and was not at all academically ready. Logistically it was easier for their family to have their kids at the same school so she planned to have him repeat K if needed (which can sometimes be challenging to get the school to do). He actually ended up being fine by the end of K, caught up to his peers and went on to 1st grade.

[minionkevin]

One of the moms in Kid1’s preschool is a K teacher and has already told me my August-born 3 year old should be redshirted, like she’s doing for her kid, who has a similar birthday but a year older. Except she’s pregnant now and next year will be off, so what’s the difference to her (besides the cost) of one more year of Pre-K vs. K? I hate that even professionals have this view of the oldest in the class is best. When I was a kid, it was the opposite. July birthday, gifted classes = good. Most of the kids with November/December birthdays were not in the gifted group. My MS/HS bff was our salutatorian and didn't turn 18 until the end of the semester freshman year of college (mid-December). The last time this was brought up, I looked at the top 10 in my HS yearbook and all but one -#5- had a birthday after 3/1. Most were summer birthdays. Most of the people in the top 25 also had summer birthdays. Clearly this is a trend that needs to stop.

[browneyedgirl9]

Send him. It will get him ready for kindergarten

[andwhat]

Jan 25, 2018 18:50:51 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 18:33:02 GMT -5 erbear said:

She's (correctly) made the leap that by red-shirting kids, we continue to not allow them to fail, because they will be a full year older than a typical kid in the class. And we do this because we don't want our precious snowflakes to feel bad about themselves if they can't do something, so we go out of our ways to put them only in situations where they have an advantage for success (on top of just being, you know, white and male).

Sure. I don't disagree with this. 

If I start my son with his cutoff birthday when he is 4, he will almost surely be the youngest. Which may not be bad. But it might not be great. 

If I start my son when he is 5, he could be a whole one day older than the person that didn't make the cutoff with the 9/16 birthday. 

He will either be the oldest or the youngest in the class. 

There is always a 12 month gap from oldest to youngest. The issue with redshirting is that gap is extended to 18 months or more. 

[mccallister84]

And for anyone who’says they don’t regret it - it’s impossiblw to have the full picture at 6,7,8 etc. You also don’t have anything to compare it to. You don’t know if your child would have thrived going on time. Finally, in most states a child is entitled to special education services until 21. If you redshirt your child, they lose out on a year of those services.