Pre-K Readiness

[tigress]

Y'all are funny. I had a scheduled c-section for DS and pondered on this board or ML whether it would be better to have him on 9/15 so I could have the option of sending him since that was the cut off day and was exactly 39 weeks, or not worry about it. I was made out to be a horrible mother for even considering that in the equation of having him. Turned out that was the day the OB offered to schedule it and so that's when he was born.

Now after having 2 fairly mature kids before him go through (or currently going through) kindergarten I feel that they run kindergarten pretty serious, a lot is expected. My girls are spring birthdays and have done just fine. But I don't know if that would be the case with DS. I'm leaving my options open. Because, again, if he was born 24 hours later he wouldn't make the cut off. So its pretty borderline. But I guess I have no faith in my DS for even considering it. Ok.

I googled what @natariru mentioned. It appears a lot of the redshirting they discuss is relating to kids that are 6 entering K turning 7 vs 5 year olds. My DS would be 5 turning 6 if I held him back. He would be 17 (4 months shy of 18) when he graduated high school. He would still be 17 months when he goes to college if he goes.

I get what you guys are saying. I'll keep watching him over the next year and see how he progresses. I'll talk to the K teachers that would actually be teaching him and listen to their thoughts. Then I'll make my decision. And if I still do decide to wait to have him start I won't feel bad about it.

[scm1011]

Jan 25, 2018 13:20:36 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Send him. I hate red-shirting. Our cutoff is 9/1 and DS is born 11/8. I wish I could send him early!

I'm hoping my next kid is born in the spring/summer so I don't have to pay an extra year of daycare!

I am timing my FET to help ensure this, ha. I wish I could send my 11/11 kid early. 

My mom sent my 9/18 sister to Catholic school for K and then switched her to public school for 1st to get around the 9/1 cutoff, lol

[oswin]

tigress - I think the only thing we're confused about is that you said go ahead and send to Pre-K, think about redshirting later, but that's not what you posted for your own son if I'm reading these dates correctly. I think that you should send your son to Pre-K when he's nearly 4, and then if he seems ready send him to kindergarten on time at nearly 5 - and if he's not, just repeat Pre-K. That would be leaving your options open. Not trying to make you feel bad, just trying to make things clear.

Also, I think you're putting a little too much emphasis on integer ages - there's basically no difference between the month before turning 5 and the month after turning 5, so sending a kid to kindergarten when they're "only 4" (but about to be 5) shouldn't be a big deal. DH grew up in NY which has a 12/31 cutoff and he's an October birthday so he was *gasp* 17 when he started college. It happens all the time, it's not a big deal. Again, I'm not trying to make you feel bad, just trying to add some different perspectives.

[tigress]

Thanks oswin for the response. I made it about me, you're right. Sorry for my self centeredness.

I'm in the midwest. It seems like more err towards the side of older than being super young. I'm an end of May birthday and went to school on time but there were a few boys in my class that were May and a year older than me. I was usually THE youngest person in the class. So I guess life experiences have shaped my thoughts on this too. Everyone here is making it sound like it is such a horrible evil choice, but every person I have talked to about it in real life has been strongly on my side of they would wait to send my DS. SO its just a weird collision of opposite opinions. I see now its not like this everywhere.

[pugz]

I think the drum that many of us are beating about not red-shirting on this board is about the macro level issues that are happening because of the trend of upper middle class white people red-shirting their kids. Parents wanting to give their kids the alleged "advantage" of sending them to K when they are older will say "I'm just doing what's right for MY kid!" but we are living in a society here. We need to step back and look at this from a distance, not just our specific kids.

About 1/3rd of the preschoolers at my daughter's school were red-shirted. In other districts and regions of the country it is more. That has a huge impact on our expectations and standards for kindergarten and the kids that lose in this situation are already at a disadvantage to start. My daughter's kindergarten class has 27 kids in it, resources are already stretched thin.

[pugz]

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

[Jalapeñomel]

My kid is the youngest. He's fine in pre-k. Send him on time.

[niq]

Jan 25, 2018 14:37:47 GMT -5 pugz said:

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

I forget if it's New York City or the whole state. You can "redshirt", but if you do, your kid just goes straight to first grade.

I sometimes think "don't redshirt ever ever ever" can reach overkill -- at some point, putting a not-quite-ready, just-turned-five year old in school is a detriment to the other kids in class -- but anybody who can get through a year of pre-K without glaring behavior issues is going to be fine.

[Deleted]

My son is only 2 and I want to send him to preschool next year, he turns 3 two weeks before the cut off. I already have people telling me to hold him back! If he really struggles in pre-k in two years I will consider holding him back with teacher recommendation but for now, I plan on sending him on time. He has a speech delay but he could very well catch up or it might not impact him that much.

[timorousbeastie]

Like almost everyone else has said, I'd send him. The whole point of pre-k is to prepare for kindergarten. There's no need to hold off on that.

[tigress]

I agree that the original poster should send him if she wants to. He makes the cut off by almost a month. I don't think its a bad decision.

[hocus2]

Jan 25, 2018 14:37:47 GMT -5 pugz said:

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

   NYC has very strict rules on red shirting but I'm not sure if the whole state is like this. It isn't true that it can never be done. There is a process to have your child evaluated and apply for a later start. It is very rare and due to the difficulty of the process few folks try. So while there is formal process to hold your child back what they don't have is the ability for a parent to be the sole or main arbitrator of the process. 

I agree with a fairly strict policy and I never considered holding back my close to cut off child.  However I think NYC should consider moving its start date back to September which is more in line with the majority of states and would make folks less likely to consider red shirting.  

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 25, 2018 14:56:12 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

Jan 25, 2018 14:37:47 GMT -5 pugz said:

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

   NYC has very strict rules on red shirting but I'm not sure if the whole state is like this. It isn't true that it can never be done. There is a process to have your child evaluated and apply for a later start. It is very rare and due to the difficulty of the process few folks try. So while there is formal process to hold your child back what they don't have is the ability for a parent to be the sole or main arbitrator of the process. 

I agree with a fairly strict policy and I never considered holding back my close to cut off child.  However I think NYC should consider moving its start date back to September which is more in line with the majority of states and would make folks less likely to consider red shirting.  

But if redshirting is rampant elsewhere and we have one of the latest cutoffs, I don't see making the cutoff earlier to cause people to stop considering redshirting working since they can't do it here anyway. But I'm not unsupportive of moving it up earlier gradually if that's what NYC wants to do and they still keep the cutoff strict.

To the person who asked above - it's only NYC that I know is strict. Elsewhere in NYS, local school districts may have different rules (and different cutoffs). I went to school in suburban NY and our cutoff was also 12/31 at the time (I think it's been moved up earlier since then), and I don't think the cutoff was super strict because we had a couple of kids in my class who were born in November/December 1981 who did not have special needs that the rest of us were aware of. So redshirting must have happened but not to the extent I hear about elsewhere these days (and may be happening in that same district now, who knows).

[andwhat]

Oh just what we need another generation of coddled white men who don't know how to fail and get up again. A kid who is redshirt-ed for no reason is not advanced, they are fucking older.

OP send your kid on time. He will be fine.

[Ashley&Scott]

This is not a thing. Of course you send him to Pre-K on time.

[tigress]

The school district I grew up in has the cut off for K as Sept 1 but school doesn't start until Sept 5. So every kid would be 5 by the time school started. I guess that's why its odd to me that I would send my kid to K as a 4 year old. Different experiences.

Why is race being thrown around in here?

[numbers]

Jan 25, 2018 15:53:21 GMT -5 tigress said:

Why is race being thrown around in here?

Are you serious? 

Stop and think for a second. Who generally has the means to choose to delay sending their kid to school for another year? That's a huge luxury.

[tigress]

@barefootbarista At least in Iowa they did "magically" start making the curriculum harder for no reason. Iowa Core was implemented where the K teachers are required to get through certain things and power through no matter the readiness of their students.

My race comment was more towards andwhat discussing production of coddled white men because a child started kindergarten at 5 instead of 4.

FWIW my district's wording on start dates is child must be 5 by 9/15 to be eligible.

The rage regarding this subject is strong.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2018 15:53:21 GMT -5 tigress said:

Why is race being thrown around in here?

You didn't actually do the research that @natariru told you to do, did you? Otherwise, you'd know the answer to that question.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2018 13:03:14 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

A’s birthday is two months past the 9/30 cutoff and I wish I could send her early. I want her to always be challenged in school, I would never hold her back so she can perform at a higher level simply because she’s a year older than her peers.

Same here with my DS. Never facing challenges, or learning to deal with failure is a huge disservice.

[starburst604]

I’ll be damned if my kid is going to get some overinflated sense of her achievements because she’s older than the peers she’s benchmarked against, nor will I contribute to this on a societal level.

She was born in May and she will start K the September of her 5th year. How is this helping anyone learn how to be successful in life beyond school? I can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe because I’m a December baby who started K at 4 and college at 17.

The only time I ever cared about being younger was when all my friends were turning 21 and I couldn’t do shit!

[tigress]

I read through like 6 different links after googling what was asked. If you'd like me to review something specific then I'm happy to.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2018 16:22:49 GMT -5 tigress said:

I read through like 6 different links after googling what was asked. If you'd like me to review something specific then I'm happy to.

The impact of redshirting on racial inequality.

[tigress]

Jan 25, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

why is race being thrown around?

you find me a POC who would consider changing their c/s date for their unborn child so that they can be born after the kindergarten cutoff, thus being older when entering K, and I will eat fucking crow.

this is straight up white people nonsense.

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

[mccallister84]

Jan 25, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

why is race being thrown around?

you find me a POC who would consider changing their c/s date for their unborn child so that they can be born after the kindergarten cutoff, thus being older when entering K, and I will eat fucking crow.

this is straight up white people nonsense.

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

Well the thing is if you look at the actual, peer reviewed research, in 99% of the time it is in everyone’s best interest, including your child’s to send them on time.

[andwhat]

Jan 25, 2018 16:14:22 GMT -5 tigress said:

@barefootbarista At least in Iowa they did "magically" start making the curriculum harder for no reason. Iowa Core was implemented where the K teachers are required to get through certain things and power through no matter the readiness of their students.

My race comment was more towards andwhat discussing production of coddled white men because a child started kindergarten at 5 instead of 4.

FWIW my district's wording on start dates is child must be 5 by 9/15 to be eligible.

The rage regarding this subject is strong.

And my comment was directed at you, not rbp. I was just on my phone and couldn't remember who to tag.

Do you really think that there are a bunch of rich non-white people holding their kid back so they are not average? That is a luxury for richer white people. Hell, I fought to get my DD into pre-K with a birthday 2 days after the Sept 1 cutoff and I am paying for private school for her to be there. And yes, that is a luxury I can thankfully afford. She is the youngest in her class. So what. 

You are doing your kid no favors holding him back so he won't be average. The advantage will fade by 3rd grade anyway and then his old self won't be able to deal with the younger kids doing better than him because he has always had an unfair advantage. If you don't think that is true read almost every piece of literature out there on the subject.

[tigress]

Obviously I failed but I'm not trying to start issues here.

In my experiences, normal for starting kindergarten to me is starting at 5. That is the only reason I am considering waiting for my son. I never consider starting my other kids with non September birth dates at later times. Obviously in other areas kids start at 4. I see that now.

I get that it does nobody any good to hold the kid back for not a good reason. And as I said, if he's ready at 4, great, we'll look into it.

Again, my race comment was aimed more towards that the idea of me starting my kid in K at 5 instead of4 would turn him into a coddled white man. That is all. I understand inequities between races and that things are not even and fair. I'm not trying to get my kid ahead. I feel like starting him as a 5 year old instead of a 4 year old puts him as average. Again, as I said earlier, if he was like a July birthday or even August I probably wouldn't even consider it.

And yes my kids aren't perfect. We switched daycares and solved a lot of issues for my 2nd child. Thanks connie0000 .

[tigress]

Sorry for those I offended.

[konapoppy]

Jan 25, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 tigress said:

I was discussing the c/s date to start him early if I felt it was in his best interest. But I guess I should just go by the date and not worry about his best interest. Got it. Thanks all.

How Trump was elected, everybody.

[luv2rn4fun]

Our cutoff date here (CA) is 9/1 (must be 5). Both boys miss the cutoff. DS1 starts preschool next weds and for some reason I thought he would do preschool this year and 2018/19, TK 2019/20, and start kindergarten in 2020. But TK is only offered for bdays 9/2-12/2 so it looks like he will basically be repeating pre-k3 next year and we will be paying for preschool for an additional year than we had hoped. I really wish he could start kindergarten in 2019 and feel that he would actually be ready (academically he is very close to kids born in July/August). As it stands now he will graduate HS at 19.5 years old...that seems really old (I was held back for maturity reasons and still graduated just before 19). Same for DS2, especially since he is so close to the cutoff (9/27 bday). I don’t get holding back unless there is a definite reason too.