Pre-K Readiness

[ribollita]

Jan 26, 2018 0:41:29 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

On the flip side, I have a good friend who put her son in K even though I felt he should do one more year of Pre-k, because he had an August bday and was not at all academically ready. Logistically it was easier for their family to have their kids at the same school so she planned to have him repeat K if needed (which can sometimes be challenging to get the school to do). He actually ended up being fine by the end of K, caught up to his peers and went on to 1st grade.

Since he caught up, it would appear he WAS academically ready.

[kath16]

I'm looking forward to having this conversation with my MIL when my boys approach K. She held both boys back for no reason and my H is 2 years older than me even though we graduated HS together.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2018 23:51:36 GMT -5 pugz said:

redheadbaker really interesting that you have a friend of a boy that says she regrets it! We need more of those stories out there.

I think you tagged the wrong redhead.

[gt7301b]

Jan 26, 2018 8:12:29 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I'm looking forward to having this conversation with my MIL when my boys approach K. She held both boys back for no reason and my H is 2 years older than me even though we graduated HS together.

Me too. My MIL already told me that we should redshirt my June birthday son. I told her that I have every intention of sending him to school on time and if for some reason he needs extra help school will be much better equipped to handle it than daycare.

[frlcb]

Jan 26, 2018 0:41:29 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

On the flip side, I have a good friend who put her son in K even though I felt he should do one more year of Pre-k, because he had an August bday and was not at all academically ready. Logistically it was easier for their family to have their kids at the same school so she planned to have him repeat K if needed (which can sometimes be challenging to get the school to do). He actually ended up being fine by the end of K, caught up to his peers and went on to 1st grade.

I'm confused, are you a teacher? Or someone who diagnoses whether children have issues which mean they should be held back? Why did you feel he should have done one more year of pre-k? It sounds like not doing it was the right thing. 

[kath16]

Jan 26, 2018 9:03:20 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Jan 26, 2018 8:12:29 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I'm looking forward to having this conversation with my MIL when my boys approach K. She held both boys back for no reason and my H is 2 years older than me even though we graduated HS together.

Me too. My MIL already told me that we should redshirt my June birthday son. I told her that I have every intention of sending him to school on time and if for some reason he needs extra help school will be much better equipped to handle it than daycare.

I'm over here wondering if I can get my November kid in early because daycare is $$$

[minniemouse]

Jan 26, 2018 9:23:07 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Jan 26, 2018 9:03:20 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Me too. My MIL already told me that we should redshirt my June birthday son. I told her that I have every intention of sending him to school on time and if for some reason he needs extra help school will be much better equipped to handle it than daycare.

I'm over here wondering if I can get my November kid in early because daycare is $$$

Lol, my former boss tried to get his February kid in early for the same reason. Our cut off is 12/1. The school basically laughed at him.

[KB]

Jan 25, 2018 19:48:08 GMT -5 tigress said:

Jan 25, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

But it would not be early, it would just be on time.

I get it, my daughter was born a couple days before the cut off. She came on her own 10 days early. Had she been born on her due date she would be in Kindergarten this year instead of first grade.

I think you are doing your child a disservice if you hold them back based only on the day they were born.

I also think it is short sighted to think your decisions on such topics do not impact anyone else.

True. It seems so early to me. 

DS has a 9/2 birthday, cutoff is 9/30. He was 4 for the first two weeks of K and is by far the youngest kid in the class. He is also on the spectrum. His teachers said he was ready for school so we sent him on time. He has plenty of friends and is at or above grade level in everything. Listen to the professionals and don't buy trouble. Youngest doesn't always equal a problem. 

[rbp]

Ok, thanks everyone for the feedback. Our deposit is due next Thursday for the private pre-K (Georgia doesn't provide universal pre-K so we have about 1/3 chance of getting into a public program) and I plan to be there the moment they open the office. Just thought it was worth entertaining H's question. But the friend he talked to is a Westminster type so I have to take her advice with a grain of salt.

I haven't seen a 5-pager on MMM in a hot minute, but I should have known if anything would do it it would be redshirting

[KB]

Jan 26, 2018 9:21:34 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

april/may/june birthdays being redshirted??

ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS?

This happens a lot. People are ridiculous. 

[rbp]

Jan 25, 2018 14:37:47 GMT -5 pugz said:

but unless school districts actually set some fucking rules about it, it's just gonna get worse. Major props to the states that have a hard and fast deadline. New Jersey maybe? Or New York? One of those does.

From what I can tell my county does not accept 5yos in public pre-K. But I'm pretty sure you can get around that by putting your 5yo in private pre-K and then enrolling them in public K at 6.

[pugz]

Jan 26, 2018 8:23:09 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 25, 2018 23:51:36 GMT -5 pugz said:

redheadbaker really interesting that you have a friend of a boy that says she regrets it! We need more of those stories out there.

I think you tagged the wrong redhead.

Dangit! 😂

[sweetday]

All this and I still dont understand wanting to keep any kids back because they are "average and not advanced"

[sent]

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

[kath16]

Jan 26, 2018 10:40:16 GMT -5 sent said:

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

Why though?

[karinothing]

Jan 26, 2018 10:49:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Jan 26, 2018 10:40:16 GMT -5 sent said:

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

Why though?

Boys obviously need more advantages in life. Life is SO hard for them.

[sent]

Jan 26, 2018 10:49:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Jan 26, 2018 10:40:16 GMT -5 sent said:

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

Why though?

Well based on my December b-day brother's experience who was "pushed ahead" because he missed the Oct. 1 cutoff. Also my DD is early December but my friend's DS is very late December. My DD is tall so it's not readily apparent she is just 4 and not 5, her DS is physically much smaller than the average 4 year old. She feels he isn't mature enough yet to be pushed ahead and I don't blame her. But we are talking about "holding back" or "pushing ahead" December kids with an Oct. 1 cutoff in our state so technically my friend is totally within the rules here to keep her kid on the calendar schedule for NJ. 

[penguingrrl]

The rampant red shirting drives me nuts. My school district has a cut off of Sept 30 and people acted like I was crazy for sending my girls on time. The oldest is 8/30 and the other is 7/14. Why on earth would I consider not sending them on time? Got there and there are May and earlier kids in their grades who were redshirted, so kids in my oldest’s grade who will be 12 4-5 months before she turns 11. It’s insanity, and kind of funny since she’s performing better than many of them academically. The truth is, a smart kid is going to thrive, an average kid is going to be average.

One of my closest college friends didn’t turn 18 until after the spring semester of freshman year started. She was in NYC when she started K and her parents petitioned for early entrance since she was within a month of the 12/31 cut off. Then they moved to Jersey and she was a good 5 months behind the otherwise youngest since that district had an October 1 cut off. She was in the top 10 of her graduating class, graduated college at 21 and got an earlier start at her career and retirement.

[kath16]

Jan 26, 2018 10:59:34 GMT -5 sent said:

Jan 26, 2018 10:49:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Why though?

Well based on my December b-day brother's experience who was "pushed ahead" because he missed the Oct. 1 cutoff. Also my DD is early December but my friend's DS is very late December. My DD is tall so it's not readily apparent she is just 4 and not 5, her DS is physically much smaller than the average 4 year old. She feels he isn't mature enough yet to be pushed ahead and I don't blame her. But we are talking about "holding back" or "pushing ahead" December kids with an Oct. 1 cutoff in our state so technically my friend is totally within the rules here to keep her kid on the calendar schedule for NJ. 

Well THANK GOD that I was tall and therefore able to thrive as the youngest person in my grade

[karinothing]

I don't get what this maturity is that kids need in K? We live in a very competitive area still at our K info night they told us all kids need to know coming in is the letters in their names.

There is no requirement that they sit all day. My kid rotates stations every 15 minutes or so. Stations involves things like playing learning games on the ipad, coloring, counting with beads, table bowling, playing with toys, writer's workshop (they tell a story through pictures or words). When they aren't doing stations they are listening to stories or playing games or going on scavenger hunts in the school. They have afternoons full of specials like music, art and PE and have recess twice a day. I think the most they have to sit and stay still is during lunch. In fact, I am 99% sure my 2 year olds daycare requires more sitting and staying still than my child's kindergarten does. Otherwise, I don't get what maturity is needed. There are still kids that break down crying occasionally. There are still kids that are super tired or cranky. It is normal, the teachers aren't put off by it. I mean heck, I went to a party at my kids school and he broke down in sobs when I left AND he is the oldest in the class. It happens.

I guess I just don't get how someone could not be ready for K.

I started K at 4 and never felt like it damaged me in any way.

[Deleted]

Well, this thread was certainly something.

The other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that if it turns out your kid has legitimate special needs, whether related to learning disabilities or speech impairments or anything else, the sooner they are in formal schooling, the sooner they can get assessed and get resources. So even if your kid seems "academically" behind (I have no idea what that means when you're 4 or 5, but whatevs), getting them into pre-K or K sooner rather than later probably gives them a better chance of catching up than just waiting.

Glad to hear you're planning on forging ahead, rbp. I think this is one of those issues where your instinct was right but then people who can't mind their own damned business make you doubt yourself.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2018 11:15:56 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't get what this maturity is that kids need in K? We live in a very competitive area still at our K info night they told us all kids need to know coming in is the letters in their names.

There is no requirement that they sit all day. My kid rotates stations every 15 minutes or so. Stations involves things like playing learning games on the ipad, coloring, counting with beads, table bowling, playing with toys, writer's workshop (they tell a story through pictures or words). When they aren't doing stations they are listening to stories or playing games or going on scavenger hunts in the school. They have afternoons full of specials like music, art and PE and have recess twice a day. I think the most they have to sit and stay still is during lunch. In fact, I am 99% sure my 2 year olds daycare requires more sitting and staying still than my child's kindergarten does. Otherwise, I don't get what maturity is needed. There are still kids that break down crying occasionally. There are still kids that are super tired or cranky. It is normal, the teachers aren't put off by it. I mean heck, I went to a party at my kids school and he broke down in sobs when I left AND he is the oldest in the class. It happens.

I guess I just don't get how someone could not be ready for K.

I started K at 4 and never felt like it damaged me in any way.

My DS (who was sent on time, but is one of the older students in his kindy class due to his birthday) definitely is immature. The maturity issues that he has are things like following directions consistently, impulse control for things like talking out of turn, keeping his hands to himself, etc. I think that’s the maturity aspect most people are talking about with boys. My girls who are on the young side for their grades did not have any of the same maturity issues. They were able to consistently follow directions/control their impulses/etc (of course still having moments of not, but way fewer) while I don’t think it’s really a reason to hold back boys as a whole (or to hold them from entering kindergarten in time) it has definitely made kindergarten more frustrating with my DS than it was with my DDs. The boys at our school that repeated kindergarten for “maturity issues” were for these kinds of reasons. You can’t go on to first grade if you can’t mostly follow directions and control your impulses and stuff like that. I think it’s better to repeat kindergarten though if necessary than hold back just in case.

[abs]

Oh, a redshirting debate. Why not. It's been a few months, lol.

So here is what happens when you redshirt. You continue to ensure that the standards in Kindergarten, 1st grade, and beyond continue to be 100% not age appropriate. My DD is in 1st and what they are learning is just insane. The pressure to read chapter books and spit out math facts is mind boggling. She's keeping up, but many of her friends with late spring and early summer birthdays are struggling. You know what was discussed at pick up the other day? Tutoring. For SIX year olds. No. They are already in school 8 hours a day. They get a 15 minute recess. They should be able to play with their friends and run around outside after school--not go to tutoring! Yet this is the reality because they are "behind" based upon the fact that so many kids are turning 7 months before 1st grade. It's got to stop.

Please send your kids to school when they are supposed to go.

[sent]

Jan 26, 2018 11:15:12 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Jan 26, 2018 10:59:34 GMT -5 sent said:

Well based on my December b-day brother's experience who was "pushed ahead" because he missed the Oct. 1 cutoff. Also my DD is early December but my friend's DS is very late December. My DD is tall so it's not readily apparent she is just 4 and not 5, her DS is physically much smaller than the average 4 year old. She feels he isn't mature enough yet to be pushed ahead and I don't blame her. But we are talking about "holding back" or "pushing ahead" December kids with an Oct. 1 cutoff in our state so technically my friend is totally within the rules here to keep her kid on the calendar schedule for NJ. 

Well THANK GOD that I was tall and therefore able to thrive as the youngest person in my grade

OK I'm not trying to start a fight. Maybe I wasn't clear but I'm talking about the other side of the issue - where kids miss the cutoffs but might be ready but can't go because of an arbitrary calendar date that varies by several months from state to state. My examples are of kids who miss the cutoffs in their home states so their parents are not red shirting. I could wait to send my December DD "on time" according to the cutoff in my state and I told myself I would have done that if it was apparent she wasn't ready. Which is exactly what my friend is choosing to do with her December DS, she is not redshirting as per our state. She is sending her kid on time while I am paying out of pocket to send my kid early.

[tigress]

Jan 26, 2018 11:15:56 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't get what this maturity is that kids need in K? We live in a very competitive area still at our K info night they told us all kids need to know coming in is the letters in their names.

There is no requirement that they sit all day. My kid rotates stations every 15 minutes or so. Stations involves things like playing learning games on the ipad, coloring, counting with beads, table bowling, playing with toys, writer's workshop (they tell a story through pictures or words). When they aren't doing stations they are listening to stories or playing games or going on scavenger hunts in the school. They have afternoons full of specials like music, art and PE and have recess twice a day. I think the most they have to sit and stay still is during lunch. In fact, I am 99% sure my 2 year olds daycare requires more sitting and staying still than my child's kindergarten does. Otherwise, I don't get what maturity is needed. There are still kids that break down crying occasionally. There are still kids that are super tired or cranky. It is normal, the teachers aren't put off by it. I mean heck, I went to a party at my kids school and he broke down in sobs when I left AND he is the oldest in the class. It happens.

I guess I just don't get how someone could not be ready for K.

I started K at 4 and never felt like it damaged me in any way.

Our K teachers said at kindergarten round up that it is strongly recommended that kids know all the letters in the alphabet and what sounds they make, numbers up to 20, well practiced in cutting/scissors for hand strength, their address and phone number (for safety obviously) among other things. Its a public school so I'm sure there are kids coming in that can't do these things. My DDs were fine. I don't know how much other kids struggled that didn't have these skills upon entering. 

[andwhat]

Jan 26, 2018 10:40:16 GMT -5 sent said:

I literally just called our school district today to see if they allow children who miss the cutoff to test into 1st grade. I was told no, nope, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tries to start with me about my DD missing the Oct. 1 cutoff around here, I remind them that 15 minutes away in NYC, the cutoff is Dec. 31 so how can she be ready in one state and not in ready in another state. I am generally appalled when I read about how cutoffs are so much earlier in other parts of the country. I wish she could qualify for pre-school & K/1 in the district based on academic readiness and not some date on the calendar, we would save some money!

I will say I may have felt differently if I had a boy. My brother was pushed ahead with a December birthday. He has said he wishes he had been "red-shirted." He spent an extra year in college so I guess it evened out for him haha.

We have that same issue here. MD is 9/1. VA and DC 9/30. So if I lived 15 minutes in another direction my 9/3 kid would be a year earlier. And my friend's DD who is a week younger than mine would be a year ahead in school. It makes no sense. And how is a kid born 9/1 ready, but a kid born 9/3 not?

[pugz]

The other side of the coin is that the more people red-shirt, the more age inappropriate the standards will be. (expecting to sit still, testing, not a lot of play time/recess)

So these parents of kids (mostly boys) that are worried about maturity (ability to listen, sit still, control impulses) choose to red-shirt, which just perpetuates the problem in the schools. But they are always "doing what's best for my child."

I will say, expectations for K varies a lot by region/district. Our kindergarten has 2 recesses and they had center time twice a day too. So 2.5 hours of the day is essentially free play. A nearby district there is no center time. They are at their desks or in circle time if they are in the classroom. Only free play is recess.

I don't know the answer to that. My thought is, let the kids learn by doing. Give them the chance to rise to expectations, not hold them back a year and hope that age will cure their impulse issues and listening challenges.

[dcn]

I really wish there was one cutoff nationally.

My ds missed the cutoff here by 12 days. He’s beyond ready academically. Waiting a year for maturity and social skills won’t hurt. But if he been born 2 weeks earlier I would have sent him on time. There wasn’t an option to test in early. I’m a little worried he’ll be bored but hopeful his teacher can deal with that.

Also my sister is a kindergarten teacher and hates red shirting. She has kids who dont know their letters and kids who are reading on the first day. Kids who can sit and listen and kids who have a harder time. Kids who have been to daycare and preschool and kids who have never been to school. That’s what kindergarten is for. To learn all of that and grow and mature. Even with the changing standards and curriculum changes for kindergarteners she feels most kids “catch up” and those that don’t can get the extra help they need.

[KB]

For those concerned about their littles having to sit still for 8 hours a day, I have not found a teacher yet that does that. Every teacher in DS's school keeps the kids moving around as much as they can. They do manipulatives, centers, Go Noodle, etc. This is in addition to PE, recess and other specials. Of course the kids have to sit still for parts of the day, but they certainly aren't at a desk writing sentences all day long. That doesn't help the teachers or the kids.

[ellipses84]

Jan 26, 2018 8:05:48 GMT -5 ribollita said:

Jan 26, 2018 0:41:29 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

On the flip side, I have a good friend who put her son in K even though I felt he should do one more year of Pre-k, because he had an August bday and was not at all academically ready. Logistically it was easier for their family to have their kids at the same school so she planned to have him repeat K if needed (which can sometimes be challenging to get the school to do). He actually ended up being fine by the end of K, caught up to his peers and went on to 1st grade.

Since he caught up, it would appear he WAS academically ready.

In my opinion, he wasn’t academically ready at the start of the year in comparison to his peers or kids who were a year younger than him that we know. I’m not saying I was right about it, but his parents and I are close and had discussions about the pros and cons of redshirting vs sending him to K. He did attend pre-k and the school sent home a list of things they expect kids to know/do entering K and he was unable to do most of them at the start of the K school year. He did struggle in the first half of K. The skills they are mastering at this age are still developmental so just like all of those kids started walking at different times, he made a big leap forward halfway through the year.