He should be expelled. It should not be up to you to have to seek alternate arrangements or to pull her if you don't want to.
THIS. I'm sensitive to the issues with expelling young children (mainly around POC kids), but this is a private montessori and what he did is heinous, so I DGAF. The kid who assaulted your daughter can finish out the year at public kindergarten. His parents can be inconvenienced.
My opinion is just an uninformed opinion, but I would 1) pull her from school for the rest of the week, 2) decide if you want to let her finish out the year or just go back next week to basically wrap it up/say goodbye to her friends, and 3) gather a list of what you think are appropriate actions the school should take before you talk to the director again. First and foremost - the offending child needs to be expelled.
I might consider talking to a child psychologist about whether pulling her out of school for the rest of the year is the best move or if it will be more traumatic than letting her stay for now and transferring next year. Obviously your daughter's safety is the most important thing, though, so for me, they would not only need to ensure the boy was no longer there as an immediate threat, but that they are putting systems in place to make sure these things won't happen again.
Post by mustardseed2007 on Apr 11, 2018 10:12:16 GMT -5
@applejack01, I'm late to this and haven't read the whole thing but did someone already suggest calling state licensing? In our state DCFPS handles this kind of thing. A DC we used to be in was actually investigated because of something (I don't know what exactly) involving 2 boys in a bathroom. They self reported and DCFPS investigated and the investigation was described in general, summarized terms on the state's website.
If you call in you'll have an opportunity to let them know how you see it and they'll be investigated by the state.
We have both of our kid's in an early childhood montessori program right now and I am very hurt for you. They absolutely suck.
What I don't understand is why this boy is still in her class at all? What is their time frame for reporting to CPS? Why wasn't it done yesterday?
IMO, this school is being managed by idiots. Do not let them fail to report or fail to change the environment for your daughter's benefit all in the name of them saying they did nothing wrong. I'd confirm the incident, their reaction/action/lack thereof, and your conversations in email today and make sure you cc the owner and Board/director/whomever. Then I'd forward it to CPS because I wouldn't trust them to do it.
So I went into her school at drop off but his parents had beat me in there. It was extremely awkward for many reasons but especially because that bitch director escorted them to me and then turned around and walked off for us to have a chat.
Post by notsopicky on Apr 11, 2018 11:24:41 GMT -5
Did I miss something--why is he still in class with her again? That's unacceptable--and I'd venture to say, that whoever they are mandated reporters to, that agency will also find that a problem. What happens the next time these three chucklehead teachers are all gossiping together, not paying attention to their kids?
What I don't understand is why this boy is still in her class at all? What is their time frame for reporting to CPS? Why wasn't it done yesterday?
IMO, this school is being managed by idiots. Do not let them fail to report or fail to change the environment for your daughter's benefit all in the name of them saying they did nothing wrong. I'd confirm the incident, their reaction/action/lack thereof, and your conversations in email today and make sure you cc the owner and Board/director/whomever. Then I'd forward it to CPS because I wouldn't trust them to do it.
Yes. If we had more than 6 weeks left I would pull her. I dont know that he is going to stay in her class. He is staying so the situation can be monitored with him. I dgas about him and his situation but there is nowhere else to put him and since he is attending net year I dont think they will expel him. I have requested their plan of action to be emailed to me by noon today and their version of our conversation documentation sent as well. I have also let them know I will be filing a police report this afternoon and I expect the board notification and CPS reports to be made by 2pm today and to receive copies. I informed them that I will be sending all of that to our lawyer as documentation because I feel there is a high probability they are going to say something to CPS about DH's reaction and I want to be prepared not only if that bullshit happens but if there is another incident with this boy. They told me it was not reported immediately yesterday because they have never handled a situation like this before and they were not aware of the protocol.
Them claiming to "not be aware of the protocol" would really bother me. I was a very low level employee at an elementary school and we did multiple mandated reporter trainings even at that level of staffing and had a clear and specific reporting protocol school-wide. The fact that they don't understand their own obligations and train their staff to be aware of theirs is a major red-flag. What is their plan to ensure that all staff are properly trained on mandated reporting moving forward? I literally do not understand how they could not have a plan in place to deal with something like this.
I'm so sorry this happened to your daughter and I applaud your family for handling it so well.
None of their reaction is within the range of acceptable. I am SO sorry and SO angry for you. Your poor sweet girl.
Why was she even focusing on "kids will be kids" when HER teachers allowed a sexual assault to happen on their watch? The fact that she does not remotely acknowledge that this was assault is alarming. And she brought the other parents over to you? WHAT THE HELL.
How old is your kiddo? The way I would talk to a 3 year old about this would be different than how I would talk to a 5 year old.
On the topic of empowering your daughter - perhaps you might think about allowing her to take a karate class (or something similar like judo or tae kwon do, depending on what's offered in your town). I know in these classes they emphasize that you use karate in defense, and you can let your daughter know that she can defend her privacy, her body with what she learns in karate. This could be empowering, and she isn't too young for a beginners class. It's also good exercise and socialization.
I take kickboxing and they have a kids class at the same time that she sometimes takes. She will be going back and stay in it indefinitely. Also last night we talked a lot about she doesnt have to have words in a weird situation she can just scream like agnes in minions. She said she couldnt because she had a weird feeling that what he was asking was wrong and it made her voice not work. So she did what she had to make it be over and then told. I told her that was awesome and she is so brave. Then I explained to her that that feeling is her body warning her and that even though it feels strange it is an alarm to scream and move no matter what. And that she must always always always listen to that feeling and scream and move. and then i cried because jesus christ she is brand new 6.
You are an amazing mom!! And she is a lovely, sweet, innocent little darling girl. You and your husband are doing just what you need to do to help her maintain that innocence and sweetness. ((hugs))
On the topic of empowering your daughter - perhaps you might think about allowing her to take a karate class (or something similar like judo or tae kwon do, depending on what's offered in your town). I know in these classes they emphasize that you use karate in defense, and you can let your daughter know that she can defend her privacy, her body with what she learns in karate. This could be empowering, and she isn't too young for a beginners class. It's also good exercise and socialization.
I take kickboxing and they have a kids class at the same time that she sometimes takes. She will be going back and stay in it indefinitely. Also last night we talked a lot about she doesnt have to have words in a weird situation she can just scream like agnes in minions. She said she couldnt because she had a weird feeling that what he was asking was wrong and it made her voice not work. So she did what she had to make it be over and then told. I told her that was awesome and she is so brave. Then I explained to her that that feeling is her body warning her and that even though it feels strange it is an alarm to scream and move no matter what. And that she must always always always listen to that feeling and scream and move. and then i cried because jesus christ she is brand new 6.
None of their reaction is within the range of acceptable. I am SO sorry and SO angry for you. Your poor sweet girl.
Why was she even focusing on "kids will be kids" when HER teachers allowed a sexual assault to happen on their watch? The fact that she does not remotely acknowledge that this was assault is alarming. And she brought the other parents over to you? WHAT THE HELL.
How old is your kiddo? The way I would talk to a 3 year old about this would be different than how I would talk to a 5 year old.
she turned 6 march 29th. I dont know but i knew the kids will be kids was coming so i looked that up at like 2 in the morning. Then i realized there is no way to quantify that into data to assess risk... so no. it's not a real thing to me.
Personally I'd probably give our pediatrician a call (I really trust ours and think she'd probably have some good advice). I would also keep reinforcing that she did NOTHING wrong and continue to let her know how proud you are that she told an adult. And that she absolutely has permission to bite/scream/whatever if someone tries this again.
I had a similar thing happen to me at that age and I never told an adult and carried a lot of shame about it for years. I think just letting her know it's not her fault will help alleviate any trauma.
And again, I am so sorry. Sorry it happened and sorry they are gaslighting you about this being "normal." It's outrageous.
So I went into her school at drop off but his parents had beat me in there. It was extremely awkward for many reasons but especially because that bitch director escorted them to me and then turned around and walked off for us to have a chat.
This BLEW my mind. WTF?
agreed, despite the fact that it seemed to go well...The burden of having to have the difficult conversation with the other parents should not have been forced upon you.
I'm an elementary school nurse and I am just appalled by ALL of this. I am also a mandated reporter, and I can't imagine even leaving work that same day without reporting that.
How awful the school has been has been well covered in here, but I want to add that I think you're being a very thoughtful and assertive parent. You're doing a great job advocating for your daughter while still really keeping her thoughts and interpretation of consequences in mind.
I don't have anything helpful to add other than burn the motherfucker down, but you and your H are doing a fantastic job. I give you both huge credit for standing your ground with the incompetent people in that school that failed your daughter so miserably. ((Hugs))
Post by jennistarr1 on Apr 11, 2018 12:30:05 GMT -5
as others have said, I just want to say again. You and your husband are fucking awesome, I'm actually maybe tearing up a little bit...okay I'm crying and I don't know why but honestly the emotions of this. You are doing everything I would WANT to be able to do if faced in that situation. I'm honestly inspired.
This age group isn’t the demographic I work with, but ages three to six in the same classroom seems far too wide a spread. Jesus.
You’re doing a good job of supporting her. She knew to go to the teachers, which is great. I’d reinforce her right to say NO and to do what she needs to do to get away from situations like those.
The school can’t share with you the details of how they’ll handle this with the boy.
Is it possible to switch rooms?
For what it's worth, and this may have been addressed, this is pretty normal in my experience for Montessori classrooms. DS1's school is like this as well (daycare/prek, not grade school). The goal is to have older children who are able to help teach younger children. It's part of the teaching method. I probably don't have to tell you that, but just FYI.
That said, there's a major issue here with the teachers chatting for so long that nobody noticed this was going on. I've never once seen my son's teachers that engaged in conversation with one another. They're hardly ever together in the classroom unless the entire class is doing an activity (circle time, eating lunch, having a dance party, etc.)
Post by phdprocrastinator on Apr 11, 2018 13:48:34 GMT -5
I am so sorry. I wish I had anything constructive to add to the conversation.
I can understand your desire not to punish your daughter by pulling her from a school she likes, but at the same time the school's response gives me no reassurance that they are providing a safe learning environment for their students. For your daughter (and you) the focus should have immediately been on ensuring her future safety (with a sincere apology that this happened on their watch along with a request for your input on what the plan should be, etc.).
For the boy, the focus should have been on ensuring he didn't harm other children (up to and including suspension/expulsion) and determining whether he needs additional support (a CPS call being the minimum, but as his parents appear to be alarmed at this behavior the school could also - and completely separately from working with your daughter - help these parents seek out the support they need for their son - something they can do even if he was expelled). Honestly, if he is developing these behavioral patterns this early, he may have a behavioral disorder requiring additional support like therapy and special education.
Instead, they seemed to focus on minimizing the event (which even your 6-year-old daughter recognizes as NOT trivial) and trying to get everyone to forget about it. The focus isn't on the kids' needs at all.
And bullshit that this is the first time dealing with this situation so they mishandled it. While this may be the first time something of a sexual nature occurred, this cannot be the first time they have experienced aggressive/bullying behavior in their school (unless they opened last month). What would their response be if a student punched someone else? "Kids will be kids" or a clear plan to ensure the safety of their students?
Schools can't always prevent students from engaging in bad behavior, but their response is telling to me.
Good luck as you plan a path forward! There are so many good kindergartens and schools. I hope you find a good match for your daughter.
Post by phdprocrastinator on Apr 11, 2018 13:52:25 GMT -5
I also want to add that I think you are doing a great job handling this. I don't know what I would do, short of standing in the school lobby shouting and throwing things, which would probably be less than helpful overall.
thank you. she is super embarassed and ashamed that she caved and showed him to make him stop. It is absolutely something we will address with a counselor and make sure we handle the lasting effects of that. When they took her in the office she was under the impression she was in trouble too.
This is heartbreaking. I am really, really sorry. So sad.
A mandated reporter failing to report is at least a misdemeanor and could be a felony if it is a repeat failure to report.
They weren’t aware of the protocol?!?!!!! They’re mandated fucking reporters. What else are they oblivious to the “protocol” ?!
Anger directed at them not you. But that’s some bullshit.
This part is blowing my mind and is a bunch of bullshit. They were hoping the parents would be calm and this whole thing could get swept under the rug so they wouldn’t have to report it.
OP, I’m glad you’re giving your daughter some say in all of this and keeping your options open. The leadership and confidence she sees in her parents will translate and I’m confident she’ll be just fine with your guidance. It’s fucking horrendous that this happened at all and I hope your actions with reporting this provide some significant changes at that school.
I take kickboxing and they have a kids class at the same time that she sometimes takes. She will be going back and stay in it indefinitely. Also last night we talked a lot about she doesnt have to have words in a weird situation she can just scream like agnes in minions. She said she couldnt because she had a weird feeling that what he was asking was wrong and it made her voice not work. So she did what she had to make it be over and then told. I told her that was awesome and she is so brave. Then I explained to her that that feeling is her body warning her and that even though it feels strange it is an alarm to scream and move no matter what. And that she must always always always listen to that feeling and scream and move. and then i cried because jesus christ she is brand new 6.
You could also tell her if her voice won’t work to make a loud noise by clapping, knocking something over, etc. anything to draw attention to her.
Post by RoxMonster on Apr 11, 2018 18:32:33 GMT -5
WTF? I am appalled by so much of what this school did and especially that people running a school who are fucking mandated reporters didn't know they had to report?! WHAT??
You guys are amazing parents, and are handling this so wonderfully. I'm so sorry this happened to your DD.
You and your H have done everything right - you rock!
Your DD is an strong and amazing tiny human. You are providing her with the right supports right now. It sounds like she is telling you what she needs, and has been very open about the whole assault. That speaks volumes of her trust of you.
As for the school:
LEAVE the second your daughter is ready. They are obviously not going to take the appropriate steps to remove the other child from school AND aftercare, and that is what should be happening. Perhaps, after extensive counseling, he might be considered for readmission - even on a partial day or trial basis - but maybe not.
I had to deal with something similar to this recently, and there was a lot done to make sure that the victim was made to feel safe and comfortable, while the accused was the one making changes to his situation - and my team is STILL questioning whether or not we did enough for the victim. That is where your school should be - not leaving you to handle awkward conversations where the expectation was for you to say that it was all okay, and the school could say that the parents solved everything by working it out together...
"Every child has the right to an education, but it does not have to be within this building" is something your school needs to remember.
(I do agree with not moving your DD if she loves school - she might see it as being in trouble. The onus is on the school to remove the boy AND at least reassign - if not fire - the teachers in question. Perhaps they cannot work in the same room with each other, but would be doing their jobs when paired with others. Probation would be my expectation for them at a minimum.)