CA bans new sales of gas cars by 2035

[jlt19]

Also, why don’t car manufacturers use solar paneled roofs or something for charging? Sounds easier than building new roads.

[macmars45]

Aug 26, 2022 15:24:56 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Sure there are plenty of challenges to getting to the 100% electric, but 2035 is actually a long way away.  As more electric cars are sold the charging footprint will increase and range of vehicles.  A lot of R&D can take place over that time.  More alternatives to TESLA will also help drive down the cost of EVs. 

There already are good alternatives to Tesla. Chevy Bolt, Ford 150, Nissan Leaf just to name three. There are definitely others and all car brands should get on board and offer an EV alternative asap. Then they need to ramp up production and lower their prices.

The Chevy Bolt is already 30K. It's one of the cheapest new EV on the market. Comparatively the cheapest Tesla is 50K.

[formerlyak]

Aug 26, 2022 15:53:17 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Also, why don’t car manufacturers use solar paneled roofs or something for charging? Sounds easier than building new roads.

From what I understand, there isn't enough surface area on a car to produce enough electricity to charge the car enough. That may change as tech evolves.

As far as infrastructure in rural areas, we have done several 1000 mile + road trips in our EV now, and have had no issue finding a charger (we are in California; I recognize this isn't the case everywhere, but since CA is the one driving this, I figured it was relevant). There are literally trailers with chargers on farm access roads parked on the side of the 5 freeway. It can be done. We just have to commit to it.

[fernweh]

Aug 26, 2022 16:05:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

Aug 26, 2022 15:24:56 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Sure there are plenty of challenges to getting to the 100% electric, but 2035 is actually a long way away.  As more electric cars are sold the charging footprint will increase and range of vehicles.  A lot of R&D can take place over that time.  More alternatives to TESLA will also help drive down the cost of EVs. 

There already are good alternatives to Tesla. Chevy Bolt, Ford 150, Nissan Leaf just to name three. There are definitely others and all car brands should get on board and offer an EV alternative asap. Then they need to ramp up production and lower their prices.

The Chevy Bolt is already 30K. It's one of the cheapest new EV on the market. Comparatively the cheapest Tesla is 50K.

I work in the auto industry and I can say this is happening. My company and our competitors are planning all kinds of EV launches from sports cars to pickup trucks. I can’t speak to pricing but I can say 24/25 models will have a ton of electric options (so about a 1-2 years away).

[sequins]

I understand that we don't have all the required tech right now but these regulations are here as a PUSH for the changes that need to happen. If we wait around to pass these regulations till we have fuel cells and outlets and charging roads etc, it will be too late! These regulations are going to super-charge (no pun intended) the development of tech needed for EVs.

[sequins]

Also, as car makers start winding down gas car production, there will be a huge demand from everyone (yes, even climate change deniers) for an increase in accessibility to EVs and related tech. We don't have to convince people that EV cars are good for the environment. These regulations will make them the default option and when that becomes true, the conversation will shift from, "are gas cars better" to "will charging ports in electric poles address rural/remote drivers". These regulations are imperative to shifting the conversation. We've been hand wringing long enough.

[plutosmoon]

Aug 26, 2022 14:24:32 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

@@@@

I can't let go of people still bringing up the "but think about the poors!" arguments. It's a non-starter. Status quo right now is doing irreparable damage to people. More so than any policy that is trying to fix this shit will ever do.

Take for instance this 2005 (!!) pamphlet explaining how black children are more likely to have asthma that is directly attributed to the environment - www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-05/documents/hd_aa_asthma.pdf

Yep, I brought up low income households and affordability, I spent too many years as a low income, financially insecure adult for it not to be in the center of my brain when I see EV prices.  It harms the  cause to ignore the financial side of this. There is no reason the government can't address the economics as well, that was really my point. I really do agree with you about taking serious steps to mitigate climate change, I think most of us here do, but there is no need to further harm people in the process. They can mandate EVs for our health and climate AND mitigate the economic impacts. I mean isn't that what we did with covid? We gave out millions of dollars to help mitigate the economic harm of the very real impact of the absolutely necessary public health restrictions. 

The current tax incentives aren't enough. As I mentioned above, the EV tax credit only helps if you actually have tax liability, expand it to the 57% of American households with no federal tax liability. Make the credit larger and refundable. I'm not low income anymore, my income is around the average US income, and generally don't have more than $1000 in federal tax liability in a given year.

I remember a few years ago the government wanted lower mpg cars off the road and offered cash for clunkers, they could also offer that type of program for EVs. KBB tells me there is a 12k difference between the cost of the average gas car and the cost of an EV, the government could offer people cash to turn in their gas cars for an EV and close the gap.

I haven't touched on the cost of upgrading a home's electric, if you even own your home. This is part of the infrastructure issue and part of the economics issue. I can't run the vacuum and toaster at the same time in my rental, I am not entirely sure an electric car wouldn't burn down my house, although quite honestly, I'm not entirely sure my vacuum or toaster won't burn down this place. That's if I could even plug it into the 1930s electrical outlets at my house. I doubt I can plug an EV into a 2 prong outlet, but someone tell me if I'm wrong. I can't get my landlord to change my smoke detector from 2003, a legal requirement in my state (don't worry, I bought my own), or put a lock on my front door, I'm certain they would do exactly nothing to accommodate an electric car, even if it was a law. But they might if the government offered them money. 

Lower income people will still be able to buy used gas cars, which they probably will, but that really doesn't help with the goal of mitigating climate change and the goal of actually being all EV. Incentivize the change and mitigate the cost, maybe we can actually get there sooner if the government steps up and does that. 

[pixy0stix]

Aug 26, 2022 17:36:09 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

Aug 26, 2022 14:24:32 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

@@@@

I can't let go of people still bringing up the "but think about the poors!" arguments. It's a non-starter. Status quo right now is doing irreparable damage to people. More so than any policy that is trying to fix this shit will ever do.

Take for instance this 2005 (!!) pamphlet explaining how black children are more likely to have asthma that is directly attributed to the environment - www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-05/documents/hd_aa_asthma.pdf

Yep, I brought up low income households and affordability, I spent too many years as a low income, financially insecure adult for it not to be in the center of my brain when I see EV prices.  It harms the  cause to ignore the financial side of this. There is no reason the government can't address the economics as well, that was really my point. I really do agree with you about taking serious steps to mitigate climate change, I think most of us here do, but there is no need to further harm people in the process. They can mandate EVs for our health and climate AND mitigate the economic impacts. I mean isn't that what we did with covid? We gave out millions of dollars to help mitigate the economic harm of the very real impact of the absolutely necessary public health restrictions. 

The current tax incentives aren't enough. As I mentioned above, the EV tax credit only helps if you actually have tax liability, expand it to the 57% of American households with no federal tax liability. Make the credit larger and refundable. I'm not low income anymore, my income is around the average US income, and generally don't have more than $1000 in federal tax liability in a given year.

I remember a few years ago the government wanted lower mpg cars off the road and offered cash for clunkers, they could also offer that type of program for EVs. KBB tells me there is a 12k difference between the cost of the average gas car and the cost of an EV, the government could offer people cash to turn in their gas cars for an EV and close the gap.

I haven't touched on the cost of upgrading a home's electric, if you even own your home. This is part of the infrastructure issue and part of the economics issue. I can't run the vacuum and toaster at the same time in my rental, I am not entirely sure an electric car wouldn't burn down my house, although quite honestly, I'm not entirely sure my vacuum or toaster won't burn down this place. That's if I could even plug it into the 1930s electrical outlets at my house. I doubt I can plug an EV into a 2 prong outlet, but someone tell me if I'm wrong. I can't get my landlord to change my smoke detector from 2003, a legal requirement in my state (don't worry, I bought my own), or put a lock on my front door, I'm certain they would do exactly nothing to accommodate an electric car, even if it was a law. But they might if the government offered them money. 

Lower income people will still be able to buy used gas cars, which they probably will, but that really doesn't help with the goal of mitigating climate change and the goal of actually being all EV. Incentivize the change and mitigate the cost, maybe we can actually get there sooner if the government steps up and does that. 

Ok, so we agree. However, I don't see a way to move forward without harming people. I think that's just a dream we're going to have to give up as much as we (collective) don't want to hear it. We let the problem get too big for any sort of harm reduction.

[gt7301b]

Aug 26, 2022 16:05:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

Aug 26, 2022 15:24:56 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Sure there are plenty of challenges to getting to the 100% electric, but 2035 is actually a long way away.  As more electric cars are sold the charging footprint will increase and range of vehicles.  A lot of R&D can take place over that time.  More alternatives to TESLA will also help drive down the cost of EVs. 

There already are good alternatives to Tesla. Chevy Bolt, Ford 150, Nissan Leaf just to name three. There are definitely others and all car brands should get on board and offer an EV alternative asap. Then they need to ramp up production and lower their prices.

The Chevy Bolt is already 30K. It's one of the cheapest new EV on the market. Comparatively the cheapest Tesla is 50K.

I think we are saying the same thing.  My point is just that this is just another lever to help ramp up production and as prices drop there  demand in the rest of the country hopefully increases which encourages additional R&D thus continuing the cycle.

[minzy]

Chiming in 12 hours later to say you can plug a car into a 3 prong outlet plutosmoon. I don’t know about a 2 prong outlet.

Grateful for the conversation, and that this didn’t die off with two replies like some of our environmental posts have in the past. That’s progress, too.

[calilove]

Aug 26, 2022 15:52:07 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I am curious how Californias grid is planning for this. When I worked for our electric company, it was (still is I’m sure) a problem to be able to close down the fossil fuel plants by xyz dates but produce more electricity due to higher # of EVs.

The wind and solar farms are being built, but they don’t have the technology to store the energy yet. And hydro isn’t reliable with all of the droughts.

I know they had plenty of time to prepare. I know this all should have been done long ago. But the reality is, they didn’t. And it’ll be a hell of a ride with astronomical electric prices or rolling blackouts.

Californian chiming in and I agree, this is a major consideration. While the goal is a positive one, it’s extremely important that we dial this energy source shift down to its ingredients, and really dissect how best to accomplish step by step. Devil’s in the details as they say. We can all (likely/ hopefully) agree that there is a major issue with fuel and air pollution. I’ve lived in Los Angeles for 21+ years. We likely have more access to charging stations than most any other city in the US. Certain logistics can be figured out if focused on and attention/money is paid to.

My biggest concern - and food for thought - actually two main concerns. The California power grid is and has been at its breaking point for YEARS. Rolling brown outs and Flex Alerts are the norm. Folks are told to limit all electricity during certain hours of the day just to simply cross our fingers that the grid doesn’t come crashing down - leaving many of us without power/air conditioning in 100+ degree weather. While I completely agree with the notion of cleaning up and improving our environmental and pollution footprint, no one can remotely state that it doesn’t come with a trade off and risk. Second nugget for thought… while electric eliminates the pollution of fuel, there are additional environmental effects that the production and strain of electricity puts on the earth as well. How it is sourced, harnessed, the making/disposal of batteries, etc. certainly leaves its own footprint and brings up its own issues that offset the mindset that it’s a no brainer to transfer from fuel to electric. And adding a third concern as most have in this thread: affordability of EVs.

Again, while I agree we need to continuously do our part in helping offset what we can, it’s 100% valid to really take a deep dive in the best way to do so, and understand the answer to it all isn’t setting an arbitrary date without a comprehensive, laid out plan, complete with pros and cons, alternatives etc. This country has gotten to a point where if you remotely raise a “I see this point, and we have the same goal, but we also need to consider xyz…” question, you’re written off as a denier. We need to be able to have these open discussions and discourse to see all sides (knowing we still won’t all agree), but at least we can best understand each other and that our goal is the same.

I love CA, and understand sometimes this state is a jump off for others to follow, but we admittedly have a lot to learn and to fix before we can honestly consider ourselves a leader or role model in MANY areas.

Really great discussion, and I mean it. I appreciate reading and trying to consider perspectives from so many.

[pixy0stix]

Myth 5 - environmental impact of evs vs gas - www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5

[MrsAxilla]

Aug 26, 2022 9:46:57 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

It's not about the cost of electricity. You make the change or we die. That's it. That's the post.

Y'all. I post articles that very concretely lay out how the world is completely and utterly fucked in the next 20 years, and I don't get a single response. We're talking about extinction level events.

Then a post about a simple concrete change that is going to happen to make a big impact, and all we get are, "but but we can't do that because of xyz!" I know it's because the scale of the impacts of climate change can't be comprehended, but for fucks sake.

Can’t be inconvenienced and act like they’re powerless as consumers.

[mrsukyankee]

Other than just looking at various types of cars, states/cities/etc are going to have to start thinking about public transport and building/town planning infrastructure too.

[minzy]

I agree this will have disparate impacts on certain groups of people, but the math remains. Whoever you are, however “meritorious” your reason, whenever you burn through a single 6.3 pound gallon of gasoline to move yourself (or your Amazon purchases) from one spot to the next, the math is the same = you release about 20 pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. (When I first realized that, I nearly hyperventilated.) “That can’t be right, her math is wrong, I’ll ignore this,” you might think - don’t. That 20 pounds of carbon dioxide emissions per gallon is correct (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/review/carbon/gasoline.html), and whatever you burn adds to the atmospheric “blanket,” which further warms the planet. We need to stop doing that, immediately, to mitigate the hugely complex series of impacts this unnatural warming has already had, and will continue to have, on exacerbating virtually every other issue you can possibly think of. (This is why, despite many other pressing concerns, climate has been my #1 issue as a voter for years.)

Maybe the answers aren’t the same everywhere. But we must get emissions down and we absolutely need to be talking and then actually doing something about this. I have been following/informally studying this closely for years, and am somewhat heartened in the recent uptick of concern and am eager for it to translate to real action. This and the Inflation Reduction Act and hopefully many more big actions to come will help move the needle on making actual action mainstream. It can’t come soon enough.

[wanderingback]

Aug 27, 2022 6:23:51 GMT -5 minzy said:

I agree this will have disparate impacts on certain groups of people, but the math remains. Whoever you are, however “meritorious” your reason, whenever you burn through a single 6.3 pound gallon of gasoline to move yourself (or your Amazon purchases) from one spot to the next, the math is the same = you release about 20 pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. (When I first realized that, I nearly hyperventilated.) “That can’t be right, her math is wrong, I’ll ignore this,” you might think - don’t. That 20 pounds of carbon dioxide emissions per gallon is correct (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/review/carbon/gasoline.html), and whatever you burn adds to the atmospheric “blanket,” which further warms the planet. We need to stop doing that, immediately, to mitigate the hugely complex series of impacts this unnatural warming has already had, and will continue to have, on exacerbating virtually every other issue you can possibly think of. (This is why, despite many other pressing concerns, climate has been my #1 issue as a voter for years.)

Maybe the answers aren’t the same everywhere. But we must get emissions down and we absolutely need to be talking and then actually doing something about this. I have been following/informally studying this closely for years, and am somewhat heartened in the recent uptick of concern and am eager for it to translate to real action. This and the Inflation Reduction Act and hopefully many more big actions to come will help move the needle on making actual action mainstream. It can’t come soon enough.

I rarely rarely order things online or get grocery delivery but I have been thinking about that because do you think we’ll see corporations being forced to follow new guidelines like electric vehicles or better operations to make their deliveries more efficient? That seems like it would make a big impact.

A lot (most?) of grocery and restaurant delivery people here use bikes so that’s another part of the puzzle is making more places bike friendly/accessible. I’ve been happy to see electric bikes becoming more and more popular.

[aprilsails]

The utilities will figure it out. I am an electrical engineer and most grids are sized to support the peak weekday business load + AC load in the summer. Solar energy can offset that peak since it generally coincides, however it is not guaranteed. Other renewable energy sources can be made to coincide (really only hydro dam management and to a limited extent). You can’t throttle a nuclear power plant back every night. That is why there is excess power in the evenings. If vehicle charging can be concentrated on overnight charging this isn’t an absolute disaster for the grid.

However, I live in Canada, and more and more of my clients are pushing for carbon neutral buildings (hooray! So freaking exciting). In my region, if all heating was to be replaced with electric sources as compared to gas, the winter peak would be higher than the summer peak, could occur overnight, and would coincide with vehicle charging (not good). There is more discussion in the industry of increasing nuclear capacity. I think this is the only viable solution.

In order to get our vehicles to full electric, it is critically important that we reduce energy use overall. This means investing in more efficient homes and businesses, building more vertical, and developing more renewable power systems.

As a final note I will say that charging infrastructure is coming and it is coming fast in my area. A nearby highway service centre gas station recently converted half their pumps to level three fast charging stations. You can charge in 15-20 minutes. That is far more appealing than waiting around for hours on a road trip. I am adding charging stations to every single project I build. It is a major consideration in building service entrance sizing, particularly for high rises with basement parking garages.

[aprilsails]

Another thing : boost geothermal/free heating/cooling systems wherever possible. They reduce pressure on the grid, are environmentally sustainable, and reduce carbon emissions. We need to convert as many large buildings as possible to these systems to really make a difference. They are expensive AF to install, and the payback isn’t quite there yet, but we have to keep hammering on businesses and politicians that we need these systems no matter what the capital costs.

[sequins]

Aug 27, 2022 6:36:37 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Aug 27, 2022 6:23:51 GMT -5 minzy said:

I agree this will have disparate impacts on certain groups of people, but the math remains. Whoever you are, however “meritorious” your reason, whenever you burn through a single 6.3 pound gallon of gasoline to move yourself (or your Amazon purchases) from one spot to the next, the math is the same = you release about 20 pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. (When I first realized that, I nearly hyperventilated.) “That can’t be right, her math is wrong, I’ll ignore this,” you might think - don’t. That 20 pounds of carbon dioxide emissions per gallon is correct (https://climatekids.nasa.gov/review/carbon/gasoline.html), and whatever you burn adds to the atmospheric “blanket,” which further warms the planet. We need to stop doing that, immediately, to mitigate the hugely complex series of impacts this unnatural warming has already had, and will continue to have, on exacerbating virtually every other issue you can possibly think of. (This is why, despite many other pressing concerns, climate has been my #1 issue as a voter for years.)

Maybe the answers aren’t the same everywhere. But we must get emissions down and we absolutely need to be talking and then actually doing something about this. I have been following/informally studying this closely for years, and am somewhat heartened in the recent uptick of concern and am eager for it to translate to real action. This and the Inflation Reduction Act and hopefully many more big actions to come will help move the needle on making actual action mainstream. It can’t come soon enough.

I rarely rarely order things online or get grocery delivery but I have been thinking about that because do you think we’ll see corporations being forced to follow new guidelines like electric vehicles or better operations to make their deliveries more efficient? That seems like it would make a big impact.

A lot (most?) of grocery and restaurant delivery people here use bikes so that’s another part of the puzzle is making more places bike friendly/accessible. I’ve been happy to see electric bikes becoming more and more popular.

Yes!!! the EV move alone won't be enough to solve everything. It needs to be a part of a series of changes including regulations on corporations to control emissions. This is where regular people come in and keep pressure on the government to keep going and not immediately backtrack after seeing some backlash for their initial moves (such as the EV move).

[pixy0stix]

Something else that I've said several times on the boards - when the government steps in and starts making cuts people aren't going to like it. Not one bit. This is just a very small beginning step to what is going to be coming.

[audette]

Aug 26, 2022 10:19:27 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

Aug 26, 2022 9:47:53 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

WE'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE REALITIES OF THE IMPLEMENTATION FOR 30 FUCKING YEARS! We're at the point where the changes have to be made or we die. What are you not getting about this?

I've seen no plans for infrastructure in rural areas, even people in larger cities are saying in this very thread there are less than 10 charging stations in their area.

I feel like I have to speak on this line. I live in a mid-size Midwest town. All told, our region has maybe 400k people, including surrounding metro areas. It's not small, but it sure isn't big.

Google pulls up 12 different locations actions, and that doesn't include all of them (I have seen additional chargers that did not pull up in the Google search).

[jewel]

Aug 27, 2022 18:01:32 GMT -5 audette said:

Aug 26, 2022 10:19:27 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

I've seen no plans for infrastructure in rural areas, even people in larger cities are saying in this very thread there are less than 10 charging stations in their area.

I feel like I have to speak on this line. I live in a mid-size Midwest town. All told, our region has maybe 400k people, including surrounding metro areas. It's not small, but it sure isn't big.

Google pulls up 12 different locations actions, and that doesn't include all of them (I have seen additional chargers that did not pull up in the Google search).

I live in a suburb in northern Ca. There are around 200,000 people between my city and the city next door. My map app shows at least 36 public charging stations in the area. We have a plug in hybrid so we don’t usually charge when we’re out, unless it happens to be really convenient, but there are a lot. This also doesn’t include charging stations in private lots (like my H’s work) so there are likely a lot more.

My sister has a Tesla and lives in an apartment with no charging stations. She charges once a week at a station at the grocery store, and it’s done charging before she finishes her shopping.

[karinothing]

Again there really doesn't need to be some massive planning to build ev infrastructure. There are gas stations still. Add chargers there. People can charge at their house in a normal outlet. Guys all you need is electricity and a plug. The infrastructure is not hard.

It should be easier in rural places because there is so much space. When you have space it's easy! We have 61 spots in one garage at our airport. Again all you need is electricity and a plug.

People just need to actually do it.

Eta: also as I said folks can install personal chargers make them public and then charge folks to use them. The app does it all for you. Easy peasy

[hellomarriedlife]

So glad that California has volunteered to be the "test pancake" for this. By the time that this eventually takes hold in my state, California will have dealt with the pain points of making this work. Thanks, California! 

[pixy0stix]

In case anyone wants to take a look at what individual states are doing re: planning ev infrastructure - here is CO's - energyoffice.colorado.gov/zero-emission-vehicles

Locally, this is what we have going on - www.fcgov.com/fcmoves/ev-readiness-roadmap

Your milage may vary on how much your localities are planning. Most of CO is pushing pretty hard, especially along the front range, because our air quality is so bad. Gov. Polis has stopped letting the state skirt around the EPA fines for bad air quality and is actively funding programs in several sectors for climate improvement.

[formerlyak]

As others from CA have pointed out, there are a lot more chargers available than the apps that help you locate them show. When we went on our road trip last summer, every hotel we stayed at had one, even the ones that didn’t lost it as an amenity. There was one on the side of the road on a trailer as we were driving through the redwoods that didn’t show in the app. We’d pull up at wineries and they’d have chargers. One of the winery owners said they are all putting them in because it’s a nice thing to offer customers and people stay longer and buy more if they can charge. Once or twice we’ve had to wait 15 minutes to charge on our road trip, but that was in Santa Barbara in a very well traveled stopping point between northern and Southern California in the middle of the town where UCSB students live. It’s a busy place. Other than that, it was a non-issue. Took only a little longer than filling up with gas.

We like to go eat up in West Hollywood to get out of our suburb sometimes and a few weeks ago we saw the charging stations attached to light poles for people who park on the street. That was cool.

Most major office buildings, museums, shopping centers here have some charging options. Even the parking lots at the schools here have them.

As far as strain on the grid, most people we know who have them charge overnight when the grid has the least activity.

Our suburb is also working on a plan to designate certain streets for bikes and slow speed smaller e-vehicles like street legal golf carts (very popular here). The idea is that bikes, e-bikes, scooters and and electric carts would take those routes around town and the main roads would be for larger traditional cars.

Someone asked about busses. As the busses in our area get old ans inoperable, they are replace with electric. That’s been happening for years already. Again, they charge overnight.

As far as cost, you can buy used electric vehicles for pretty good prices. When I was looking for a car for @@ my teen @@ I was on Carmax. A low mileage, used Nissan Leaf was going for about $7k.

Even my dad, who is older than a Boomer, loves Chevys and old cars, just bought a Bolt and loves it. He’s now talking about trading his Chevy Equinox in for the electric version when it comes out, as well as trading in his Corvette for the electric version. He said it’s just so much easier than stopping for gas.

It can be done. We need to stop making excuses and do it.

[breezy8407]

Sort of piggybacking on what aprilsails said, on the architecture/commercial development side two projects I've worked on recently had city or county (Florida and Georgia) required provisions for EV charging stations on the premise. I want to say it was 5-10% of parking stalls had to have EV charging stations. Small sample size, I know, but it is something local governments are enacting.

Tangent...A lot of energy is consumed by buildings in heating and cooling, and local and national building codes are where this happens. CA for instance has a newish code that doesn't allow natural gas for water heaters, boilers, etc (non food related equipment).

[pixy0stix]

Nebraska dept of Transportation and their plans for the next 5 years re: EV infrastructure - dot.nebraska.gov/travel/nevi/#/analyze?region=US-NE&fuel=ELEC&show_map=true

States have access NOW to a not insignificant amount of money to implement infrastructure.

[redheadbaker]

Here is PA's plan www.penndot.pa.gov/ProjectAndPrograms/Planning/EVs/Documents/Final%20PA%20NEVI%20State%20Plan%20(ver%207-21-2022).pdf

There's an entire section on Civil Rights. "PennDOT recognizes that the identification of traditionally disadvantaged and underserved populations is important because these populations often have specific and unique transportation needs to be considered, planned for, built, and maintained. Underserved and disadvantaged populations may be found in urban, suburban, and rural areas and are commonly referred to as environmental justice (EJ) populations. They are protected under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act as amended, as well as under executive orders and other legislation.

PennDOT will ensure that the NEVI program is compliant with state and federal civil rights laws, including Title VI of the Civil Rights Act and accompanying United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) regulations, the ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. PennDOT processes and procedures under the NEVI program will follow established resources including PennDOT’s Public Participation Plan, Title VI Compliance and Implementation Plan, and Every Voice Counts: Environmental Justice Moving Forward."

[wanderingback]

Here’s an article about the challenges in Philly with getting electric charging stations at row houses. Hopefully these challenges will be worked out in the next couple of years. thephiladelphiacitizen.org/electric-car-charging-stations-philly/amp/

Here’s an article about charging stations being placed at a gas station in a low income neighborhood to help incentive those in the community to get an electric vehicle so don’t have to worry about getting chargers at their row houses. It says a full charge takes about 30 minutes and costs $8.

whyy.org/articles/phillys-newest-ev-chargers-designed-to-help-drivers-living-in-rowhouses-go-electric/amp/