CA bans new sales of gas cars by 2035

[msmerymac]

Here's a list of all the EVs coming to market in the next few years that was published in January of this year.

www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/

[msmerymac]

Aug 29, 2022 1:11:12 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

wanderingback , I'm also not being flippant. I'm specifically responding to those who say you can just run a cord out your window.

I'm also thinking of when I lived in LA county and it took at least 2 hrs on public transport to go 20min by driving. That's a big problem, too.

Again this is not to say I object to this. It's a necessary step. I'm just pissy at people saying "just take public transport" who've never taken it. And I'm even more pissy at "just run a cord out your window because it's so easy."

Hi, former resident of LA county. I assure you that traffic has only gotten much, much worse in recent years.

In the summer of 2011, I decided to use public transit for a month, commute and everything, to save money on gas and to change my perspective. In my 20s, my car was like an extension of my house. It was a room on wheels. At any given time, half the shoes I owned were in the trunk, as well as 1/2 my music collection. 

The biggest thing I got from it was the freedom of not having a 1.5 ton "room" chained to me. I could go anywhere, myself, without have to store my car in a parking structure or lot or on the street. I packed only what I needed for the day and could carry in 1 bag. It was freeing. 

Anyway, I know I'm privileged because I was already used to walking 2 blocks to the grocery store and lived within a mile of a subway line and my office was along an express bus route (only 1 transfer needed from the subway to the bus). I know many people who have no other option and hate public transit, due to the time issues, the less-than-positive encounters they've had with fellow passengers, disabilities that make long walks difficult, etc. I also know that housing near transit hubs is at a premium. But I do find that if you are able to choose to live and work in places that are convenient to, say, public transit, or public charging stations, or a short commute from work so you don't need to charge a car everyday, the inconvenience is minimal. 

So anyway, that summer, my normally 35-40 minute commute was more like 50-60 minutes, including the 1 mile walk to the subway, but I got to read on the bus, so it was a negligible difference. 

When I moved to suburban Philadelphia, I INTENTIONALLY bought a house in a walkable neighborhood within walking distance of the commuter rail. I currently work from home but will start going into my company's new center city Philadelphia office by train occasionally once I get back from vacation in a few weeks.

Yes, some people don't have those choices. But those that do often see things about public transit or charging infrastructure and then get angry because they live on 15 acres, 50 miles from the closest city. We all make decisions. If people prioritize a lot of land or privacy or a big house they'll need to realize that the trade off will be increased transportation costs and increased time to get places.

[minzy]

Aug 29, 2022 9:07:04 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by this, my husband and I are discussing leasing an EV. I’m not ready to buy one, but since our car is on its absolute last legs (2007 Ford Fusion), we have to replace it sooner rather than later.

If you were looking to lease an EV, what would you be looking at?

I’ve got a Leaf. I like it a lot and would recommend it. We are a family of four, no pets. My particular one says the range is 236 mi. I don’t believe that, but I did have it down to 1% on travel once (gulp, pisspoor charging infrastructure in West Virginia + a rookie mistake) and she showed no loss of function that low, and has been an entirely faithful servant for more than 2 years now. It’s got decent space - my husband swore there was no way a two piece recliner we were trying to move would fit in it (the chair did not fit in his car) and it surprised us all and fit in the Leaf just fine. It’s got some pickup - I beat my sister’s sportier ICE vehicle out of a stoplight challenge once, which surprised and impressed her. It is not sexy like a Tesla, but it’s got some pluck, and when you’re trying to make a difference, who cares if it has curves. Ha.

[wesleycrusher]

Aug 29, 2022 9:51:34 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Here's a list of all the EVs coming to market in the next few years that was published in January of this year.

www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/

thanks for posting the list.

We are a one car family, and like you we live in the city and purposefully chose a walkable area with public transport. When we got our car 6 years ago there weren't a ton of electric options, and we travel 350 miles frequently to visit our family, so that impacted our decision because of distance and charge time.  Our goal was to have our current vehicle until we  need to replace with the hope that electric would be a viable option, so glad to see that when we get a new car in a few more years there will be tons of options! 

[sapenguin]

Hi. I'm normally a lurker but I wanted to jump in because I work for a California electric utility that is heavily focused on decarbonization and electrification. We are very customer focused and support the move to EVs as much as we possibly can. My role is actually to educate our business customers and I hire professionals to teach about things like ev charging infrastructure, ev fleets, etc. We also have programs to incentivize EVs and ongoing R&D to support the shift. We're one of the most enthusiastic entities working on this but many larger utilities and government agencies are all in on this. All this is to say, I see the infrastructure concerns here and share them, but I believe we can do this and still support underserved communities throughout the state. We have the political will and the funding to help make this transition.

[mskitkat]

Aug 29, 2022 9:51:34 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Here's a list of all the EVs coming to market in the next few years that was published in January of this year.

www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/

What I’m getting from this list is to cross my fingers my car makes it until 2023.

[wawa]

Aug 29, 2022 10:03:32 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Aug 29, 2022 1:11:12 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

wanderingback , I'm also not being flippant. I'm specifically responding to those who say you can just run a cord out your window.

I'm also thinking of when I lived in LA county and it took at least 2 hrs on public transport to go 20min by driving. That's a big problem, too.

Again this is not to say I object to this. It's a necessary step. I'm just pissy at people saying "just take public transport" who've never taken it. And I'm even more pissy at "just run a cord out your window because it's so easy."

Hi, former resident of LA county. I assure you that traffic has only gotten much, much worse in recent years.

In the summer of 2011, I decided to use public transit for a month, commute and everything, to save money on gas and to change my perspective. In my 20s, my car was like an extension of my house. It was a room on wheels. At any given time, half the shoes I owned were in the trunk, as well as 1/2 my music collection. 

The biggest thing I got from it was the freedom of not having a 1.5 ton "room" chained to me. I could go anywhere, myself, without have to store my car in a parking structure or lot or on the street. I packed only what I needed for the day and could carry in 1 bag. It was freeing. 

Anyway, I know I'm privileged because I was already used to walking 2 blocks to the grocery store and lived within a mile of a subway line and my office was along an express bus route (only 1 transfer needed from the subway to the bus). I know many people who have no other option and hate public transit, due to the time issues, the less-than-positive encounters they've had with fellow passengers, disabilities that make long walks difficult, etc. I also know that housing near transit hubs is at a premium. But I do find that if you are able to choose to live and work in places that are convenient to, say, public transit, or public charging stations, or a short commute from work so you don't need to charge a car everyday, the inconvenience is minimal. 

So anyway, that summer, my normally 35-40 minute commute was more like 50-60 minutes, including the 1 mile walk to the subway, but I got to read on the bus, so it was a negligible difference. 

When I moved to suburban Philadelphia, I INTENTIONALLY bought a house in a walkable neighborhood within walking distance of the commuter rail. I currently work from home but will start going into my company's new center city Philadelphia office by train occasionally once I get back from vacation in a few weeks.

Yes, some people don't have those choices. But those that do often see things about public transit or charging infrastructure and then get angry because they live on 15 acres, 50 miles from the closest city. We all make decisions. If people prioritize a lot of land or privacy or a big house they'll need to realize that the trade off will be increased transportation costs and increased time to get places.

YEP. It's one of those instant WTF moments for me when people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE CHOICES, people who own 3br2ba single family homes in a nice suburb get all bent the fuck out of shape about how they can't possibly drive less in any way shape or form.  ahhh, yes, because that house in a totally unwalkable neighborhood with a 40 min commute was in fact your ONLY option for your 350k budget.  Sure.  Right. Clearly.

[goldengirlz]

All practical considerations aside, I love driving electric cars. They’re so much smoother, particularly when you’re accelerating. They also handle hills so much better. Electric cars are fun! That part needs to get more attention to increase interest among the masses.

[dancelnow]

Aug 29, 2022 12:27:52 GMT -5 wawa said:

Aug 29, 2022 10:03:32 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Hi, former resident of LA county. I assure you that traffic has only gotten much, much worse in recent years.

In the summer of 2011, I decided to use public transit for a month, commute and everything, to save money on gas and to change my perspective. In my 20s, my car was like an extension of my house. It was a room on wheels. At any given time, half the shoes I owned were in the trunk, as well as 1/2 my music collection. 

The biggest thing I got from it was the freedom of not having a 1.5 ton "room" chained to me. I could go anywhere, myself, without have to store my car in a parking structure or lot or on the street. I packed only what I needed for the day and could carry in 1 bag. It was freeing. 

Anyway, I know I'm privileged because I was already used to walking 2 blocks to the grocery store and lived within a mile of a subway line and my office was along an express bus route (only 1 transfer needed from the subway to the bus). I know many people who have no other option and hate public transit, due to the time issues, the less-than-positive encounters they've had with fellow passengers, disabilities that make long walks difficult, etc. I also know that housing near transit hubs is at a premium. But I do find that if you are able to choose to live and work in places that are convenient to, say, public transit, or public charging stations, or a short commute from work so you don't need to charge a car everyday, the inconvenience is minimal. 

So anyway, that summer, my normally 35-40 minute commute was more like 50-60 minutes, including the 1 mile walk to the subway, but I got to read on the bus, so it was a negligible difference. 

When I moved to suburban Philadelphia, I INTENTIONALLY bought a house in a walkable neighborhood within walking distance of the commuter rail. I currently work from home but will start going into my company's new center city Philadelphia office by train occasionally once I get back from vacation in a few weeks.

Yes, some people don't have those choices. But those that do often see things about public transit or charging infrastructure and then get angry because they live on 15 acres, 50 miles from the closest city. We all make decisions. If people prioritize a lot of land or privacy or a big house they'll need to realize that the trade off will be increased transportation costs and increased time to get places.

YEP. It's one of those instant WTF moments for me when people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE CHOICES, people who own 3br2ba single family homes in a nice suburb get all bent the fuck out of shape about how they can't possibly drive less in any way shape or form.  ahhh, yes, because that house in a totally unwalkable neighborhood with a 40 min commute was in fact your ONLY option for your 350k budget.  Sure.  Right. Clearly.

Not everyone can live somewhere walkable. For me to live somewhere walkable and get to my job, my commute would be 1 hr each way by car and public transit does not go there and won’t go there because it’s outside of town. Those who work in industrial areas aren’t going to see public transit. We need both, not one size fits all.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2022 10:55:56 GMT -5 sapenguin said:

Hi. I'm normally a lurker but I wanted to jump in because I work for a California electric utility that is heavily focused on decarbonization and electrification. We are very customer focused and support the move to EVs as much as we possibly can. My role is actually to educate our business customers and I hire professionals to teach about things like ev charging infrastructure, ev fleets, etc. We also have programs to incentivize EVs and ongoing R&D to support the shift. We're one of the most enthusiastic entities working on this but many larger utilities and government agencies are all in on this. All this is to say, I see the infrastructure concerns here and share them, but I believe we can do this and still support underserved communities throughout the state. We have the political will and the funding to help make this transition.

I think people are more worried about what happens when the car industry shifts outside of CA. Which it has been for a bit, but it's going to move much faster now. If I had to guess, I'd say the rural south is going to be particularly hard hit.

[wawa]

Aug 29, 2022 12:41:31 GMT -5 dancelnow said:

Aug 29, 2022 12:27:52 GMT -5 wawa said:

YEP. It's one of those instant WTF moments for me when people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE CHOICES, people who own 3br2ba single family homes in a nice suburb get all bent the fuck out of shape about how they can't possibly drive less in any way shape or form.  ahhh, yes, because that house in a totally unwalkable neighborhood with a 40 min commute was in fact your ONLY option for your 350k budget.  Sure.  Right. Clearly.

Not everyone can live somewhere walkable. For me to live somewhere walkable and get to my job, my commute would be 1 hr each way by car and public transit does not go there and won’t go there because it’s outside of town. Those who work in industrial areas aren’t going to see public transit. We need both, not one size fits all.

This is now going to sound personal, because you want your personal circumstances to apply to my general statement about people who choose to live in car dependent suburbs.  I am annoyed because I read most of this giant ass multipage mess and I sorta thought based on the last page or two that people were maybe done doing this thing where they want to talk about all the reasons it's hard for them personally to do the thing that we as a society HAVE TO COLLECTIVELY FIGURE THE FUCK OUT.

There are plenty of cities that have industrial areas within city limits or accessible by transit, so your broad characterization of that one segment of the economy doesn't apply everywhere.  May very well be true for you and where you live and work, but it's not true around here or where I grew up.

I want to clarify that when I say a walkable area, I don't mean just a dense urban area.  If you can walk to the park, or a corner store, or the library or post office, or a neighborhood bar or a friend's house or even just *go for a walk* for recreation or exercise without having to get in a car first, that's one less car trip happening from your household.  

Commute trips are NOT the majority of the vehicle miles traveled in the US, so when I say "can't drive less in any way shape or form" I am referring to a lot of things that AREN'T commute trips. Commute trips are a nice nut to crack because people have routines and if you can shift that routine you get a good return on effort, but making commercial trips, errands, recreational trips and caregiving trips viable by non-auto modes is actually a bigger chunk of the pie.

What I bolded in msmerymac's post and commented on was the fact that people who DO have the economic agency to make choices about where they live and how they travel have made choices to prioritize other factors in choosing a home, and choose not to live in a place that allowed for non-personal auto trips, but then act like there were never any other choices they could have made or could make in the future, and that even talking about driving less or living a different sort of lifestyle is a huge burden on them.  If that isn't you, then I'm not sure why you quoted me.   If that is you, well....then I guess, think about your choices?

[pixy0stix]

Since I'm big on facts - The US is #2 in greenhouse gas emissions - www.climatewatchdata.org/countries/USA?end_year=2019&start_year=1990

The US is second only to China, but that doesn't tell the whole story - www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-china-the-main-climate-change-culprit/a-57777113

We fucked up. All of us. Every single person in the US. Our reasons really don't matter anymore.

[seeyalater52]

As someone who doesn’t drive I find these conversations fascinating. While I obviously do not discount the structural inequity that makes transportation really challenging for some, I also get really exhausted hearing people of relative means/ability insist they “can’t” take public transit. Not driving is (sort of) a choice I’ve made and I’m used to compensating for it but I’ve successfully taken transit for both commute and recreation places I’ve lived where transit is framed as “bad” or “not an option” by people who have never or only rarely tried to take it. I grew up very poor in an extremely rural area so I’m not unfamiliar with places where that is, strictly speaking, true, but I’m talking about relying on cars where you could easily or with some minor modifications make a different choice to walk/bike/transit and just… don’t. As a society we have made a choice historically to make it really easy for car travel to be the path of least resistance. I’m glad to see that shifting and I hope this move by CA and hopefully other states improves the market on EVs because I’d like for our next car to be an EV and since it’s our only car and we don’t have a huge budget the options weren’t great for us the last time we bought 6.5 years ago.

[picksthemusic]

Here is all the info for WA:

www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/

We intend to make our future vehicle purchases EVs. Subaru has a really nice one coming out next year (this thread prompted me to look at them):

www.subaru.com/solterra-ev?GOOGLE700000001067987Subaru+EV71700000083708664Solterra+EV58700007066264264subaru+electric+carp6364073902043700063640739020&s_kwcid=subaru%20electric%20car&s_kwid=keyword&s_kwcid=subaru+electric+car&ds_kids=p63640739020&ds_kid=43700063640739020&utm_source=paid-search&utm_medium=google_cpc&gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oeyK1jpvZJVhzuxL9Es49wHSHuRnn3_ibgAGVr9BJ9mZqOc4oIyXn9hoCwzsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2022 14:33:16 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

Here is all the info for WA:

www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/

We intend to make our future vehicle purchases EVs. Subaru has a really nice one coming out next year (this thread prompted me to look at them):

www.subaru.com/solterra-ev?GOOGLE700000001067987Subaru+EV71700000083708664Solterra+EV58700007066264264subaru+electric+carp6364073902043700063640739020&s_kwcid=subaru%20electric%20car&s_kwid=keyword&s_kwcid=subaru+electric+car&ds_kids=p63640739020&ds_kid=43700063640739020&utm_source=paid-search&utm_medium=google_cpc&gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oeyK1jpvZJVhzuxL9Es49wHSHuRnn3_ibgAGVr9BJ9mZqOc4oIyXn9hoCwzsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I have a Subaru hybrid, bought new, and it's a piece of junk. It's been one issue after another. Never again.

[stever]

Aug 26, 2022 8:46:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I agree that we need to address the cost and affordability issues. That being said, this is a change that needs to happen. We're (the US and our lifestyle choices) killing hundreds of people daily because of climate change. This needs to happen. Is it going to be painful? Yes. It's that or watch thousands of people die and become homeless because we can't get our shit together and would rather wring our hands.

So. ::shrugs::

Yep. A large chunk of my persuasive essays in high school and college were about ending logging because I had honed my skills arguing with my logger family members throughout my childhood. “But we neeeeeeed to keep on (destroying the environment)logging because we have always been loggers!” Nope.

[stever]

1: gas cars won’t be outlawed So it’s not like everyone has to buy a new car.

2: there’s plenty of time for them to set up much-needed infrastructure.

3: it needs to be done! People Who can’t afford new cars by electric, people who can’t afford new cars should be subsidized, new cars aren’t necessary.

[picksthemusic]

Aug 29, 2022 14:52:05 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 29, 2022 14:33:16 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

Here is all the info for WA:

www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/

We intend to make our future vehicle purchases EVs. Subaru has a really nice one coming out next year (this thread prompted me to look at them):

www.subaru.com/solterra-ev?GOOGLE700000001067987Subaru+EV71700000083708664Solterra+EV58700007066264264subaru+electric+carp6364073902043700063640739020&s_kwcid=subaru%20electric%20car&s_kwid=keyword&s_kwcid=subaru+electric+car&ds_kids=p63640739020&ds_kid=43700063640739020&utm_source=paid-search&utm_medium=google_cpc&gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oeyK1jpvZJVhzuxL9Es49wHSHuRnn3_ibgAGVr9BJ9mZqOc4oIyXn9hoCwzsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I have a Subaru hybrid, bought new, and it's a piece of junk. It's been one issue after another. Never again.

Good to know. Hopefully as the technology gets better, they improve things.

[TR]

Aug 29, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

All practical considerations aside, I love driving electric cars. They’re so much smoother, particularly when you’re accelerating. They also handle hills so much better. Electric cars are fun! That part needs to get more attention to increase interest among the masses.

omg our friends drove us to dinner in their Audi that's electric and getting on the highway...holy cow! That thing MOVES.

[macmars45]

Aug 29, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

All practical considerations aside, I love driving electric cars. They’re so much smoother, particularly when you’re accelerating. They also handle hills so much better. Electric cars are fun! That part needs to get more attention to increase interest among the masses.

Yes to all of this.

I love how I can zoom in my Tesla! There's a busy intersection with limited visibility that I take 2x/day for most of the year. It's no problem because I can zoom ahead of cars if need be.

[pixy0stix]

Honda, LG announce $4.4 billion US battery factory for EVs - www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/business/honda-lg-electric-vehicles/index.html

Also in the article, several other plants have already been planned, and a handful of companies were already planning on only offering EVS in the coming decades.

If anything CA is just formalizing the inevitable at this point.

[msmerymac]

Oh, we’re a 1 car household again. We were going to sell my Saturn but my H totaled it in March, long story. Anyway, our current 2015 Outback is likely the last ICE vehicle we’ll own and we’re talking about replacing it in a year or so.

[Deleted]

Yes, we are all going to have to collectively re-think how we use cars. When we lived in the UK we were shocked at how small the cars were. A smaller SUV (think VW Tiguan or Volvo SC-60) we’re considered BIG….like obscenely big. People think nothing of taking a family of 4 on a weekend holiday in a VW Golf. So, yeah, makes me think that perhaps my family of 3 really doesn’t “need” a car as big as what we have!

We’ll have to re-think where we shop and how much we buy, where we live and how we get to work, how we plan road-trips and deal with fuel stops. All of this is a GOOD thing. Our lines of thinking (favoring personal convenience over collective good) is what got us into this mess in the first place. And it will be uncomfortable, but we’ll figure it out.

[ssmjlm]

And here I was hoping my next car will be back to a manual transmission because I love the feel of switching gears and feeling the pull of the engine.

I just really hate having to stop on road trips. When I went to school in Boston, I would stop once during the 8 hour trip home for the bathroom and fuel. That's it. Hopefully batteries will start lasting for longer periods/miles.

[seeyalater52]

Aug 29, 2022 16:00:57 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Yes, we are all going to have to collectively re-think how we use cars. When we lived in the UK we were shocked at how small the cars were. A smaller SUV (think VW Tiguan or Volvo SC-60) we’re considered BIG….like obscenely big. People think nothing of taking a family of 4 on a weekend holiday in a VW Golf. So, yeah, makes me think that perhaps my family of 3 really doesn’t “need” a car as big as what we have!

We’ll have to re-think where we shop and how much we buy, where we live and how we get to work, how we plan road-trips and deal with fuel stops. All of this is a GOOD thing. Our lines of thinking (favoring personal convenience over collective good) is what got us into this mess in the first place. And it will be uncomfortable, but we’ll figure it out.

As mentioned above we are a (3 person) one car household and our car is a Honda Fit. We go on weekend trips all the time. Like with the transit thing and the EV charging thing (I imagine) it requires some additional planning at times but it is FAR from unworkable.

People openly act like we are nuts for having this as our only car and I find it kind of baffling. It’s the first car either of us have ever owned so we don’t know any different but it’s… fine.

[noodleoo]

Aug 29, 2022 16:00:57 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Yes, we are all going to have to collectively re-think how we use cars. When we lived in the UK we were shocked at how small the cars were. A smaller SUV (think VW Tiguan or Volvo SC-60) we’re considered BIG….like obscenely big. People think nothing of taking a family of 4 on a weekend holiday in a VW Golf. So, yeah, makes me think that perhaps my family of 3 really doesn’t “need” a car as big as what we have!

We’ll have to re-think where we shop and how much we buy, where we live and how we get to work, how we plan road-trips and deal with fuel stops. All of this is a GOOD thing. Our lines of thinking (favoring personal convenience over collective good) is what got us into this mess in the first place. And it will be uncomfortable, but we’ll figure it out.

@@@@
Yes, Americans are crazy with their “I *need* a big car” mentality. I’ve never understood it. My sisters family of 4 has never had a car bigger than a Toyota Corolla. My older RAV4 (which is smaller than the new ones) felt tight for a brief period of time when we had to take a pack and play and stroller and other baby gear with us on trips, big since we’ve dropped that it’s totally fine again for my family of 4.

Add big houses to the list too. I’ve mentioned this before, but I know someone who recently bought a 6000 sqft house for their family of 4. I can’t even understand it. They literally forgot about some of the rooms in their house that they never use. The waste and excess is something I will never comprehend.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 29, 2022 14:03:40 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

As someone who doesn’t drive I find these conversations fascinating. While I obviously do not discount the structural inequity that makes transportation really challenging for some, I also get really exhausted hearing people of relative means/ability insist they “can’t” take public transit. Not driving is (sort of) a choice I’ve made and I’m used to compensating for it but I’ve successfully taken transit for both commute and recreation places I’ve lived where transit is framed as “bad” or “not an option” by people who have never or only rarely tried to take it. I grew up very poor in an extremely rural area so I’m not unfamiliar with places where that is, strictly speaking, true, but I’m talking about relying on cars where you could easily or with some minor modifications make a different choice to walk/bike/transit and just… don’t. As a society we have made a choice historically to make it really easy for car travel to be the path of least resistance. I’m glad to see that shifting and I hope this move by CA and hopefully other states improves the market on EVs because I’d like for our next car to be an EV and since it’s our only car and we don’t have a huge budget the options weren’t great for us the last time we bought 6.5 years ago.

As someone who only started driving 8 years ago at age 32, I will tell you this - never, ever, ever learn to drive if you can help it. I only started learning because there were zero transit options to the job I got at the time. For anyone who didn’t start driving as a grown adult, it’s hard to overstate what driving does to your body and health. And it is a bitch to give up once you’ve gotten used to it. I’m already here talking about my next car being an EV but I have serious work to do to just decide that once my current car dies, I’m not getting another one. Especially because I no longer have that old job - hell, my current job gives me a car to drive but I have a million excuses for keeping my current car which I have to work through.

[karinothing]

Also I think folks are forgetting this law just means 100% gas cars. Which means a lot more PHEV cars on the market. There is zero reason why 100% gas cars should even be made anymore. They could all be PHEV. These cars get something like 40 miles on electric only and will likely cover the vast majority of driving

[savan]

One other big positive about EVs I haven’t seen mentioned is that you can sit in the car with it on and the a/c running without guilt. I’m doing it right now. @@@dd has an appt and I’m reading in the car until she’s done.@@@ It’s over 80 degrees outside but I’m nice and cool. I am using up a little bit of the battery while I sit but we are fully charged so no big deal.

[pixy0stix]

Reminder to @ kid stuff.