CA bans new sales of gas cars by 2035

[formerlyak]

I love the turn this thread took, sharing plans in the works in so many states. That’s what needs to be happening on a bigger scale to get people less informed on the topic to see that this is something that can be done and needs to be done.

We’ve been talking about human impact on the environment as long as I can remember, and I’m almost 50. It’s time to stop just talking about it and start doing more. Will it be perfect as it starts? Nope. But then at least we can see what’s working and work to fix what isn’t.

[bee20]

While it's true you can "use any plug" a tesla gets only 2-3 miles of charge per hour off a conventional outlet, the higher voltage chargers are more like $3000 to install.

A friend has one and when we drive away from the interstates here we need to plan to max charge before we leave populated areas and/or leave the car sitting for 2 days to charge it back up. It also loses 2-3% a day parked, since the battery needs to be kept climate controlled. And finally, now that my friend's car is 3 years old the battery capacity is only 80% of what it was new.

These aren't insurmountable challenges, but there was a learning curve when she got the car and it's still a big piece of planning years later. Without legal pressure I think many people wouldn't make a move.

I do worry that if electric usage goes up it changes the economics of a lot of older, fossil fuel burning power plants that are going offline. Hopefully the cleaner energy options can get prices down soon.

[audette]

Aug 28, 2022 10:49:11 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Here’s an article about the challenges in Philly with getting electric charging stations at row houses. Hopefully these challenges will be worked out in the next couple of years. thephiladelphiacitizen.org/electric-car-charging-stations-philly/amp/

Here’s an article about charging stations being placed at a gas station in a low income neighborhood to help incentive those in the community to get an electric vehicle so don’t have to worry about getting chargers at their row houses. It says a full charge takes about 30 minutes and costs $8.

whyy.org/articles/phillys-newest-ev-chargers-designed-to-help-drivers-living-in-rowhouses-go-electric/amp/

This needs to be the detail that gets shared widely and broadly.

"It says a full charge takes about 30 minutes and costs $8."


I need to start contemplating my next vehicle.  And I have a friend here that is vocally against full electric vehicles, because she thinks they take hours to recharge.  I've tried to tell her that with the right charger, they can charge much more quickly than she realizes.  A half hour isn't a whole lot longer than some pitstops on long roadtrips...

[pixy0stix]

Aug 28, 2022 10:53:02 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

I love the turn this thread took, sharing plans in the works in so many states. That’s what needs to be happening on a bigger scale to get people less informed on the topic to see that this is something that can be done and needs to be done.

We’ve been talking about human impact on the environment as long as I can remember, and I’m almost 50. It’s time to stop just talking about it and start doing more. Will it be perfect as it starts? Nope. But then at least we can see what’s working and work to fix what isn’t.

I haven't checked, but all of the states that I spot checked have plans up (some with updates on construction) for spending the billions the feds are putting into this.

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if there’s been any improvement on disposal or recycling of EV batteries?

One of my bigger concerns with EVs is the environmental/geopolitical impact of sourcing the materials necessary for the batteries and disposing of them once they’re dead. Not to mention the economic cost of replacing them ever few years. I know battery technology is always improving, but I’m not sure what the current and projected states are for the battery issues.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 28, 2022 14:25:09 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Does anyone know if there’s been any improvement on disposal or recycling of EV batteries?

One of my bigger concerns with EVs is the environmental/geopolitical impact of sourcing the materials necessary for the batteries and disposing of them once they’re dead. Not to mention the economic cost of replacing them ever few years. I know battery technology is always improving, but I’m not sure what the current and projected states are for the battery issues.

From what I've read, the geopolitical issues with batteries are about the same as the geopolitical issues with oil. At this point we'll just be swapping one for another.

As for your other question, this is a pretty thorough article - www.caranddriver.com/research/a31875141/electric-car-battery-life/

[isabel]

Aug 26, 2022 15:52:07 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I am curious how Californias grid is planning for this. When I worked for our electric company, it was (still is I’m sure) a problem to be able to close down the fossil fuel plants by xyz dates but produce more electricity due to higher # of EVs.

The wind and solar farms are being built, but they don’t have the technology to store the energy yet. And hydro isn’t reliable with all of the droughts.

I know they had plenty of time to prepare. I know this all should have been done long ago. But the reality is, they didn’t. And it’ll be a hell of a ride with astronomical electric prices or rolling blackouts.

We absolutely do have the technology to store energy from solar and wind stations and nearly every plant my company builds includes that technology - a battery energy storage station, which stores energy and can release it into the grid when needed.

We're also seeing a huge uptick in EV charging station requests. 

I work for a major engineering and construction firm overseeing proposals in the power delivery market (transmission lines and substations connected to power stations or throughout the grid) and EV charging falls into my market. I feel very confident that the infrastructure will grow with this new law.

[isabel]

Aug 28, 2022 14:25:09 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Does anyone know if there’s been any improvement on disposal or recycling of EV batteries?

One of my bigger concerns with EVs is the environmental/geopolitical impact of sourcing the materials necessary for the batteries and disposing of them once they’re dead. Not to mention the economic cost of replacing them ever few years. I know battery technology is always improving, but I’m not sure what the current and projected states are for the battery issues.

I don't know how public it is, so I'm not going to give details, but there are ex-employees of THE EV company that are in the process of creating a facility that will do exactly this (recycling battery components). My company is helping with the power delivery/infrastructure needs for the project.

[neverfstop]

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't have an EV and I don't really understand the typical use patterns.

If you have a charger at home, why would you ever need to charge it while you are "out and about" or doing daily stuff? I can't imagine charging it everyday at work or on a trip to the mall or while having dinner out somewhere. Or I can see charging it at work if you house isn't equipped.

Seems like the only time you'd need to charge away from home would be long-distance trips, so hotels, highway restaurants, destinations, etc. I'm just wondering where it makes the most sense to invest in chargers and put them where they are most needed.

[wanderingback]

Aug 28, 2022 19:15:46 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't have an EV and I don't really understand the typical use patterns.

If you have a charger at home, why would you ever need to charge it while you are "out and about" or doing daily stuff? I can't imagine charging it everyday at work or on a trip to the mall or while having dinner out somewhere. Or I can see charging it at work if you house isn't equipped.

Seems like the only time you'd need to charge away from home would be long-distance trips, so hotels, highway restaurants, destinations, etc. I'm just wondering where it makes the most sense to invest in chargers and put them where they are most needed.

Well people travel, so having chargers at grocery stores, restaurants, etc make sense. My dad has an electric vehicle so when he comes here since my row house doesn’t have an outside outlet he charges at a nearby grocery store. That gets him enough charge to get almost home before having to stope at a rest stop.

Also, life happens, maybe you forget to charge overnight or your battery is running lower than you expected because you decided to do 7 errands instead of 2, so you need to charge when you get to work or your next store. I know when I had a car there were plenty of times I definitely waited until the last minute to get gas for a variety of reasons.

[pixy0stix]

Politico thinks that as many as 17 states will follow CA within the next month - www.politico.com/news/2022/08/25/california-new-ev-rule-00053862

[formerlyak]

Aug 28, 2022 19:15:46 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't have an EV and I don't really understand the typical use patterns.

If you have a charger at home, why would you ever need to charge it while you are "out and about" or doing daily stuff? I can't imagine charging it everyday at work or on a trip to the mall or while having dinner out somewhere. Or I can see charging it at work if you house isn't equipped.

Seems like the only time you'd need to charge away from home would be long-distance trips, so hotels, highway restaurants, destinations, etc. I'm just wondering where it makes the most sense to invest in chargers and put them where they are most needed.

My mil has forgotten to charge many times and needed to find a charger. If you charge with a regular wall outlet, the charging stations can be much quicker. We also love that they are by stores and malls and such because on road trips it gives us something to do while charging.

I had a coworker who had a smart car which is electric but doesn’t have a huge battery capacity. She drove 50ish miles each way. She’d charge at work because she wouldn’t make it round trip without charging at or near work.

[pixy0stix]

Yeah, people regularly run cars down to empty. Just because a car doesn't take gas it isn't going to change that behavior.

[minzy]

Aug 28, 2022 20:15:30 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Politico thinks that as many as 17 states will follow CA within the next month - www.politico.com/news/2022/08/25/california-new-ev-rule-00053862

This prospect is pretty exciting. The levers are finally starting to crank into place for swift change.

[dancelnow]

I’m expecting to be in the market for a new vehicle in 2 years. Im really hoping they come up with a 6-7 passenger electric SUV by then. Nothing on the market now will transport a family of 4, medium sized dog and stuff for a road trip. The new blazer available for preorder looked promising, but I hate the idea of preordering something I can’t test drive for comfort first. I know preorders though will help these things actually make it to market though.

[basilosaurus]

I do get this is necessary. I'm not upset about it at all. I also have had a job that one day might have me drive 5 miles and the next 100. One way. It was the job that needed to be done in person, and I needed the money, and they weren't about to change. Plenty can be done to change that.

To anyone,I think it's incredibly dismissive to say just run an extension cord from your home. So, I'm supposed to run an extension cord from 4th floor walkup to 3 blocks away where I finally found a spot? Have you ever actually lived in a city with street parking? I cannot imagine the fight for the one spot around a pole.

Yes, there are options. Telephone poles being one. Running a line from your house to your car is not one. You are so dismissive of people who don't live that suburban life. And you really think an HOA is going to allow charging of not neighborhood cars?!

The burden shouldn't be on the people scraping to get by. Or even people living a regular urban life. I shouldn't have to figure out how to run an extension cord. You should figure out how I can plug in front of my home when I cannot even have parking in front of my home. And now I'm supposed to have an app to allow people to know my address and tap into my electric? Are you fucking kidding me with that "simple" solution?

And, yes, I know this is not an excuse for no change. I'm just really peeved at people saying "just run an extension cord. It's easy. Charge your neighbors/strangers." It caused a multi paragraph response!

[pixy0stix]

If single occupant vehicles get too burdensome to drive, our entire perception of car culture will shift. Especially in dense urban areas. That's not being flippant, that's reality. Jobs that require long commutes will not rely on personal vehicles, but fleet cars.

[wanderingback]

Aug 28, 2022 22:06:21 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I do get this is necessary. I'm not upset about it at all. I also have had a job that one day might have me drive 5 miles and the next 100. One way. It was the job that needed to be done in person, and I needed the money, and they weren't about to change. Plenty can be done to change that.

To anyone,I think it's incredibly dismissive to say just run an extension cord from your home. So, I'm supposed to run an extension cord from 4th floor walkup to 3 blocks away where I finally found a spot? Have you ever actually lived in a city with street parking? I cannot imagine the fight for the one spot around a pole.

Yes, there are options. Telephone poles being one. Running a line from your house to your car is not one. You are so dismissive of people who don't live that suburban life. And you really think an HOA is going to allow charging of not neighborhood cars?!

The burden shouldn't be on the people scraping to get by. Or even people living a regular urban life. I shouldn't have to figure out how to run an extension cord. You should figure out how I can plug in front of my home when I cannot even have parking in front of my home. And now I'm supposed to have an app to allow people to know my address and tap into my electric? Are you fucking kidding me with that "simple" solution?

And, yes, I know this is not an excuse for no change. I'm just really peeved at people saying "just run an extension cord. It's easy. Charge your neighbors/strangers." It caused a multi paragraph response!

Yes I live in a packed urban area, so my examples and talking about how it can work wasn’t being flippant.

Not everyone will have to charge at home. Just like people go to the gas station now, there can be faster charging stations more readily available, so charging a car will likely take longer than the 3 minutes it takes to pump gas, but still under 30 minutes.

So there will definitely need to be multiple solutions. Row houses can certainly have charge stations, so that’s why some of us mentioned that to point out it isn’t impossible, but yes there are going to need to be other solutions like more fast charge stations like there are gas stations for people who can’t or don’t want to charge at home.

Also, maybe it’ll force people who really truly don’t need cars in urban areas to get rid of them.

[basilosaurus]

wanderingback, I'm also not being flippant. I'm specifically responding to those who say you can just run a cord out your window.

I'm also thinking of when I lived in LA county and it took at least 2 hrs on public transport to go 20min by driving. That's a big problem, too.

Again this is not to say I object to this. It's a necessary step. I'm just pissy at people saying "just take public transport" who've never taken it. And I'm even more pissy at "just run a cord out your window because it's so easy."

[neverfstop]

Thanks! that makes sense....It's funny, I guess I am "drive it to zero" on my car's fuel but also the opposite with my phone and pretty much keep it as charged as possible all the time.

[Bad Dingo]

Here's some of the things happening in CT:

Electric buses:

portal.ct.gov/DOT/Publictrans/Bureau-of-Public-Transportation/CT-Electric-Bus-Initiative

[pixy0stix]

Article on battery charge times, and how the tech may change. www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/27/electric-vehicle-charge-time/

I personally like this quote:

Marc Geller, a spokesman for the Electric Vehicle Association, an industry nonprofit, said that it’s largely a perception that quicker charging times are a large barrier for customers to not purchase electric vehicles. “That perception is obviously both true and largely irrelevant,” he said. The larger issue, Geller added, was that demand is outstripping supply.

Most consumers, he said, will opt to charge their cars at home, given that it’s more convenient and less expensive than public charging stations, which charge more for power than utility companies.

[Deleted]

Interestingly, the “fast chargers” seem to take a toll on overall battery lifetime, whereas the slower chargers (like you’d have in your house) don’t tax the longevity as much.

There’s so much room for charging technology and battery technology to improve! Hopefully this move by CA, and hopefully other states, will drive innovation.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2022 1:11:12 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

wanderingback , I'm also not being flippant. I'm specifically responding to those who say you can just run a cord out your window.

I'm also thinking of when I lived in LA county and it took at least 2 hrs on public transport to go 20min by driving. That's a big problem, too.

Again this is not to say I object to this. It's a necessary step. I'm just pissy at people saying "just take public transport" who've never taken it. And I'm even more pissy at "just run a cord out your window because it's so easy."

It was one poster, and she specifically said house. But ok.

And we all know the issues with transportation that the collective we have been unwilling to really change because we all have single occupancy cars. Maybe there will actually be movement there too? We all understand the issues. We're not stupid. We've talked about them ad naseum for decades. At this point, either we adapt or die. There's no middle ground anymore. People are going to suffer. Again, I'm not sure what people thought when climate scientists said that any changes made to save the planet are going to severely impact the lower classes. That a magic wand was going to appear? We're too far behind any changes that needed to have been made 20 years ago to lessen the impact. So, like the quote above, all of what people said is true, but largely irrelevant. 

[redheadbaker]

Aug 28, 2022 22:06:21 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I do get this is necessary. I'm not upset about it at all. I also have had a job that one day might have me drive 5 miles and the next 100. One way. It was the job that needed to be done in person, and I needed the money, and they weren't about to change. Plenty can be done to change that.

To anyone,I think it's incredibly dismissive to say just run an extension cord from your home. So, I'm supposed to run an extension cord from 4th floor walkup to 3 blocks away where I finally found a spot? Have you ever actually lived in a city with street parking? I cannot imagine the fight for the one spot around a pole.

Yes, there are options. Telephone poles being one. Running a line from your house to your car is not one. You are so dismissive of people who don't live that suburban life. And you really think an HOA is going to allow charging of not neighborhood cars?!

The burden shouldn't be on the people scraping to get by. Or even people living a regular urban life. I shouldn't have to figure out how to run an extension cord. You should figure out how I can plug in front of my home when I cannot even have parking in front of my home. And now I'm supposed to have an app to allow people to know my address and tap into my electric? Are you fucking kidding me with that "simple" solution?

And, yes, I know this is not an excuse for no change. I'm just really peeved at people saying "just run an extension cord. It's easy. Charge your neighbors/strangers." It caused a multi paragraph response!

When I lived in Center City Philly, I got to use an electric vehicle (ETA: might have been a hybrid, but I didn't put gas in it the whole time I had it) for 3 months as part of an influencer thing. I lived in the second floor of an apartment (converted townhouse). This was maybe 2015, if I remember correctly.

If I happened to get a spot in front of the building, I charged with an extension cord to a plug in the first floor hallway. Otherwise, I charged at work.

Things have only improved since then. There are several chargers at the grocery store I go to. More gas stations have EV chargers. Even the house we rented in OBX for vacation had a charger.

[mskitkat]

Inspired by this, my husband and I are discussing leasing an EV. I’m not ready to buy one, but since our car is on its absolute last legs (2007 Ford Fusion), we have to replace it sooner rather than later.

If you were looking to lease an EV, what would you be looking at?

[satsuma]

Aug 29, 2022 9:07:04 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by this, my husband and I are discussing leasing an EV. I’m not ready to buy one, but since our car is on its absolute last legs (2007 Ford Fusion), we have to replace it sooner rather than later.

If you were looking to lease an EV, what would you be looking at?

Whatever you can find? Demand is really high right now. The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 get good reviews.

[wanderingback]

Aug 29, 2022 1:11:12 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

wanderingback, I'm also not being flippant. I'm specifically responding to those who say you can just run a cord out your window.

I'm also thinking of when I lived in LA county and it took at least 2 hrs on public transport to go 20min by driving. That's a big problem, too.

Again this is not to say I object to this. It's a necessary step. I'm just pissy at people saying "just take public transport" who've never taken it. And I'm even more pissy at "just run a cord out your window because it's so easy."

We must be reading different threads.
I think 1 person mentioned running a cord out of your house, no one mentioned anything about doing it from 2nd floor apartments.
As far as public transport goes, I ride it everyday and the conversation in this thread has said public transportation needs to change/improve, not that it’s convenient for everyone right now.

But overall that people are going to be forced to change (like what covid) because we have no choice, even if it causes some inconvenience at first.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 29, 2022 9:07:04 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Inspired by this, my husband and I are discussing leasing an EV. I’m not ready to buy one, but since our car is on its absolute last legs (2007 Ford Fusion), we have to replace it sooner rather than later.

If you were looking to lease an EV, what would you be looking at?

Right now, probably a Tesla despite my convictions. Their infrastructure is hard to beat. 

Non-Tesla, I really liked the Chevy Bolt I used for my old job. It was perfect for tooling around town and was larger inside than it looked.

[audette]

I remember the days of needing to plug in block heaters for cars. (I come from a place that gets cold enough that older engines, and diesel engines, need a bit of help to start, so block heaters warm up the engine block and some of the fluids enough to make starting up work.)

Public car parks had outlets available for every stall. They eventually started cycling them on/off every 15 or 30 minutes to conserve power, but, that infrastructure is there is many older parking lots back there.

And when folks lived in places without parking lots, where street parking was done, yup, folks really did just run an extension cord out to the street for their car. We did, at the place I rented in college. Some of the fancier neighborhoods would have little trellis things to carry the cords up and over the sidewalk, but most of us just laid it on the ground, across the sidewalk. You tossed it back onto the lawn when you were bot using it, and it was all OK. If it was cold enough that we needed to plug in our block heaters, we'll, it was cold enough that the sidewalks would be pretty treacherous already. A few cords wasn't going to make it any worse.