@Will you watch the new Duggar documentary?

[basilosaurus]

Jun 3, 2023 6:48:41 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I just googled “is Bill Gothard dead?”.

Why is this evil fucker still alive and why is he walking around and not in jail? Jesus.

I have religious trauma but nothing like this.

Also, Jim Bob and Michelle are terrifying. Abusive pieces of shit need to be in jail.

only the good die young. This is also a reminder Kissinger is still alive at 100.

I read Kathryn Joyce's book quiverfull when it first came out something like 15 years ago. I was already well aware of the cult and iblp, but it still was astounding.

The pearls (to train up a child, blanket training, switches, etc) are awful abusers. I used to follow a blog from someone raised in that world. We may have even discussed her here, probably in Sunday fundie. She did regular posts on their abuse manual. Libby Anne I think? Arby's proposal girl, while still very much fundie, at least wrote about using it with skepticism and a critical eye. I haven't thought about either in years.

I'm so proud of Jill. It's not easy to escape cults and far more difficult if it's your family that indoctrinated you. No one had her pegged as the one to be speaking up.

Bates family also had a show. Like duggars, they had 19 kids, went to the homeschool conventions together. They looked downright liberal in comparison in that they learned from sugar mistakes and portrayed themselves different. Got rid of the Andrew Jackson and Nathan Bedford Forrest pictures on the wall, started actually taking care of their horses, let girls wear pants, let Michaela call herself Michael. It's all carefully curated based on the reaction to duggars and their own cameo appearances.

I can't say anything was particularly surprising, but I was still shocked to hear them so openly and proudly admit to being abusive assholes.

[Jalapeñomel]

DH and I are watching.

I have a lot of thoughts about forcing religious beliefs on children, and although this is particular sect is egregious, I think many mainstream Christian groups aren’t that far removed from these behaviors.

[wanderingback]

I love documentaries and I don’t know much about the Duggars (reading through this thread I didn’t know about the cult, etc), so will watch now that I know about this documentary.

[icedcoffee]

I don’t want to give a cent to Jim Bob or Michelle but I will happily support any of their offspring who are taking (even small steps) to overthrow their parents. Jill and Derrick certainly have their own issues but they are actively trying to break the cycle. I wish them the best. And look forward to binging this tonight with some yummy cocktails!!

[icedcoffee]

And where has wambam been? I feel like I haven’t seen her in a while and I know she found this stuff fascinating. I hope you are well!

[basilosaurus]

Jun 3, 2023 9:12:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

And where has wambam been? I feel like I haven’t seen her in a while and I know she found this stuff fascinating. I hope you are well!

She's been around, but I couldn't tell you exactly how long it's been.

I feel like she, a poster who's gone, and myself were the fundie cult watchers. She needs to be in here!

[dragon's breath]

I never watched the Duggars, but find cults fascinating. And even having been raised Pentecostal (though allowed to wear pants/jeans and didn't have to cover my head, so fairly extreme on the protestant scale, but not as extreme as it could be), there were a few "wow" moments so far (found out about it yesterday, watched the first two episodes, will finish today).

My dad was, and is, the more extreme of my parents, but even he was good with supporting my abilities (which lean toward math, logic, using tools, not the "feminine" stuff my church thought I should be into or good at).

When they discussed the music, and even "Christian Rock" being bad, I thought "yep, that's how it was at home". Country music was evil, rock was evil, Christian rock was still bad. We used to sneak MTV when my parents were gone, for the short time we had cable.

I'm so thankful to have received a real education, and that my parents were not in as deep as some of the other members of the church (no Santa Claus, no Sword in the Stone, girls are not allowed to do what boys are, etc).

I'm expecting the gap to widen quite a bit with episode 3, to the point where I relate to the upbringing much less.

I do not go to church at all, since I was in high school, and absolutely don't feel I'd belong in any of them. I'm even uncomfortable going to a funeral at the old church (and only go for a select few people).

[ny96]

No, I’m too grossed out by the whole thing, but I am interested in whether they place any of the blame on TLC. It seems like that network should be held accountable in some way.

[livinitup]

Jun 3, 2023 11:10:45 GMT -5 ny96 said:

No, I’m too grossed out by the whole thing, but I am interested in whether they place any of the blame on TLC. It seems like that network should be held accountable in some way.

Ding ! Ding ! Ding ! TLC is going to get sued 100%. The documentary completely gave them a pass but even the little bit they showed makes it’s pretty obvious that the contracts are trash.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jun 3, 2023 11:18:55 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Jun 3, 2023 11:10:45 GMT -5 ny96 said:

No, I’m too grossed out by the whole thing, but I am interested in whether they place any of the blame on TLC. It seems like that network should be held accountable in some way.

Ding ! Ding ! Ding ! TLC is going to get sued 100%. The documentary completely gave them a pass but even the little bit they showed makes it’s pretty obvious that the contracts are trash.

Not only that, but there is zero chance they weren’t aware of the abuse. Failing to step in makes them complicit.

[katfco]

Jun 3, 2023 12:13:04 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jun 3, 2023 11:18:55 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Ding ! Ding ! Ding ! TLC is going to get sued 100%. The documentary completely gave them a pass but even the little bit they showed makes it’s pretty obvious that the contracts are trash.

Not only that, but there is zero chance they weren’t aware of the abuse. Failing to step in makes them complicit.

I went ahead and watched it and this is what really stood out to me. There’s no way they didn’t know.

[Deleted]

I made it to episode 2 and had to stop. The abuse mentioned was too much.

[oregonpachey]

I watched all four episodes and one thing (among many others) that turned my stomach was the "Joshua Generation" who are trying to get into positions in government so they can turn America into a Christian nation (white supremacy and misogynistic).

[SwimDeep]

No, I will not watch this. It will absolutely trigger my trauma responses, and I don't have the capacity to process that much emotion (anger really) right now.

But I'm glad to read this thread and know that this doc takes a critical view.

[wanderingback]

Ok I started watching.
WTF to them knowing about the abuse for so long. Like I said above I never followed them but knew their son had gone to jail for abuse, but I thought it was recent. I guess the documentary is going to go in to how he got caught and actually arrested?

I thought they were just "regular" religious people, I didn’t know about this ATI. Did they talk about that stuff on the TLC show?

Clearly there’s prob lots of abuse cover ups happening in that world, ugh.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2023 6:27:16 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Ok I started watching.
WTF to them knowing about the abuse for so long. Like I said above I never followed them but knew their son had gone to jail for abuse, but I thought it was recent. I guess the documentary is going to go in to how he got caught and actually arrested?

I thought they were just "regular" religious people, I didn’t know about this ATI. Did they talk about that stuff on the TLC show?

Clearly there’s prob lots of abuse cover ups happening in that world, ugh.

@@@@@@@@ plus TW for abuse


The recent stuff was child sexual abuse material on his computer (and potentially distributing? I don’t remember all the details and don’t want to Google it). I’m assuming the documentary will cover this.

But he was known to molest his sisters and other girls when he was a teen (this was apparently known before/during the heyday of the TLC show), had an extramarital affair with an adult film star while his wife was pregnant, and was involved in Ashley Madison (the website that helped men cheat on their wives).

[cattledogkisses]

Jun 3, 2023 7:52:14 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

DH and I are watching.

I have a lot of thoughts about forcing religious beliefs on children, and although this is particular sect is egregious, I think many mainstream Christian groups aren’t that far removed from these behaviors.

As someone who grew up in a mainstream Christian denomination during the height of the "true love waits" purity culture movement, I think the harmfulness of that doesn't get enough recognition. 

I had a lot of stuff I had to unpack and work through as an adult from that.

[pixy0stix]

I still haven't had time to watch.

But - I've always wondered how TLC got a pass with all these shows that eventually came out that the kids were abused. Honey Booboo is another, as is the Toddlers in Tiaras that it spun off of.

ETA: I did a search and there are so many shows that TLC had to have documented abuse and did nothing.

TW - child sexual abuse - another one of the big family shows that ended after a season www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-11-30/jessica-willis-fisher-memoir-sexual-abuse-tlc-reality-show

[pugz]

Jun 3, 2023 10:48:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Jun 3, 2023 9:12:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

And where has wambam been? I feel like I haven’t seen her in a while and I know she found this stuff fascinating. I hope you are well!

She's been around, but I couldn't tell you exactly how long it's been.

I feel like she, a poster who's gone, and myself were the fundie cult watchers. She needs to be in here!

excuuuuuuuuuse me I was reading ex-FLDS memoirs in the early 00s! 

[pugz]

I got thoughts y'all! Finished it last night. I've been a Duggar follower since the beginning although I stopped watching the show when we cut cable a very long time ago.I went to a Christian college just down the road from the Duggars, yet none of them would have been allowed to go there because we weren't conservative enough. People could actually date! Even if we weren't supposed to go beyond first base, dance, drink, etc. I grew up evangelical but deconstructed in 2008 thanks in large part to being exposed to new ideas by people like you back on The Nest, lol. You all corrupted me and I thank you immensely for it.

I am so glad the documentary is getting so much attention. I hope it will help folks that grew up in these kinds of high control fundie groups to make some sense of what happened to them and further distance themselves from it and hopefully get professional help. And I hope more people become aware of what the whole "Joshua Generation" thing is that is discussed in the final episode. I didn't make the connection right away but the guy talking about it, Alex Harris, is the younger brother of Joshua Harris. (He wrote I Kissed Dating Goodbye in 1997 but a few years ago he renounced all of that, apologized for his books, took them out of print, and left Christianity and got divorced, I can't WAIT to read his ex wife's memoir later this year).

Back to the Duggars. I got Jinger's book from the library and read it in March. She criticizes Gothard and IBLP but NOT her family other than Josh. She didn't go in on her parents at all. But she did talk about recognizing the hypocrisy of Gothard and how that and marrying someone outside the cult helped her leave. Yet she's now in a different cult soooo that's not good. I just have to hope she sees the hypocrisy there too and further deconstructs but I don't know that she wants to open her eyes to that yet.

Now Jill and Derrick have a book coming out in January that I'm pretty sure will echo what they shared on the documentary about their experience with Jim Bob and TLC. They are basically still Southern Baptist but send their kids to public school and have limited contact with family members, mostly her sisters. Her younger brother Jed was attacking her post about the book the other day, liking comments about how folks should honor their parents and how shameful it is to write this memoir. The siblings that have stayed loyal to Jim Bob and not spoken out against Josh, their parents, and IBLP have gotten large payouts of the TLC money. He has bought their silence and most of them work for their dad so remain financially dependent on him.

[tacokick]

It’s interesting this series coming out now and so many people didn’t seem to know about how horrible it all was. The show was so popular I just figured people knew and didn’t care or were supportive of it.

The abuse info is more recent but their connection to Goddard and ATI has been well known since their first special like 20 years ago—in the 14 and Pregnant Again one they went to an ATI conference. I never watched and knew this from articles and headlines at the time.

100% not surprised they weren’t saving money for the kids. Reality tv plays by its own rules and it’s not hard to spend kid’s money when they are actual actors even with the Coogan Law. I remember there being some talk about child labor with regards to the kids since they were being filmed constantly but not much came of it.

[mirabelle]

I'm only thru episode 3 and aside from the horrific and rampant abuse it makes me livid that they canceled the original show after the Josh stuff blows it up and the girls get the spinoff and JB gets to continue to cash THEIR checks. I wish they would sue him and TLC.

[wanderingback]

Jun 4, 2023 11:30:16 GMT -5 tacokick said:

It’s interesting this series coming out now and so many people didn’t seem to know about how horrible it all was. The show was so popular I just figured people knew and didn’t care or were supportive of it.

The abuse info is more recent but their connection to Goddard and ATI has been well known since their first special like 20 years ago—in the 14 and Pregnant Again one they went to an ATI conference. I never watched and knew this from articles and headlines at the time.

100% not surprised they weren’t saving money for the kids. Reality tv plays by its own rules and it’s not hard to spend kid’s money when they are actual actors even with the Coogan Law. I remember there being some talk about child labor with regards to the kids since they were being filmed constantly but not much came of it.

Nope, had no clue.
I had of course heard of the Duggar’s (although my partner watches zero reality tv and I bet he has never heard of them), but I thought they were just "regular" Christian people with a lot of kids. I never watched the show so would have no other reason to know the abusive stuff of the teachings they were following.

Were you and others critical from the beginning of the show or was it just more recently that it all came out?

[katfco]

pugz, I went to a similar college, also in Arkansas. Dress code, curfew, no drinking, tobacco, dancing, premarital sex, or any LGBTQ behavior. We were even expected to keep our rooms clean (girls had room checks once a week and got fined if it was "dirty" too many times--like I got a warning for having a single piece of trash in the trash can).

Purity culture was a huge thing when I was a teen. I remember having the "potato chip" lesson: a potato chip was passed around, and at the end, the teacher asked, "Who would be willing to eat this potato chip," comparing us to the potato chip.

[klee23]

TW/@

wanderingback - like PP said, the criminal charges are unrelated to the molestation of his sisters + unnamed Jane doe (there was 1 unrelated victim). A homeland security raid of his computer found child sex abuse videos a few years ago. Comment sections at the time indicated that some videos may be flagged to help track who is searching or downloading them on the dark 'net. Anyway- the videos in question were referred to as the worst of the worst by investigators.

Some of this was mentioned briefly in episode 2 but a quick summary of the other stuff. The molestation occurred in early 2000's (pre-TV show). Five or so years later they were slated to go on Oprah but her staff received an anonymous tip which resulted in them reporting it to Arkansas CYS. There was an investigation, no charges. In 2015 a tabloid got a tip, had a FOIA request finding the earlier police reports that was improperly redacted*. Aside from public backlash there were no repercussions about the situation

*so says the duggar victims since they were identifiable

[tacokick]

Jun 4, 2023 13:49:14 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 4, 2023 11:30:16 GMT -5 tacokick said:

It’s interesting this series coming out now and so many people didn’t seem to know about how horrible it all was. The show was so popular I just figured people knew and didn’t care or were supportive of it.

The abuse info is more recent but their connection to Goddard and ATI has been well known since their first special like 20 years ago—in the 14 and Pregnant Again one they went to an ATI conference. I never watched and knew this from articles and headlines at the time.

100% not surprised they weren’t saving money for the kids. Reality tv plays by its own rules and it’s not hard to spend kid’s money when they are actual actors even with the Coogan Law. I remember there being some talk about child labor with regards to the kids since they were being filmed constantly but not much came of it.

Nope, had no clue.
I had of course heard of the Duggar’s (although my partner watches zero reality tv and I bet he has never heard of them), but I thought they were just "regular" Christian people with a lot of kids. I never watched the show so would have no other reason to know the abusive stuff of the teachings they were following.

Were you and others critical from the beginning of the show or was it just more recently that it all came out?

I didn’t go around protesting it or anything but I had no interest in watching people with those values. I don’t know anyone who watched them but I know it was a very popular show(s) for many years.

I read about their first special in the newspaper in like 2004 and it was framed them being members of being a strict, controversial church. I think a lot of people were interested why you’d have so many children so their church and beliefs have always been part of the story pretty much any time they are interviewed or written about.

There have been whole websites, blogs,
subreddits and forums devoted to anti-Duggar/anti-their affiliated church info for the past 20 years.

[pixy0stix]

There has always been a lot of people critical of the Duggars right from the beginning. You could probably search the boards for threads here. Before there was actual confirmation, there was a lot of speculation about physical, mental, and emotional abuse because the Gothards didn't hide shit about how they thought kids should be brought up, and the Duggars are proud of their religion.

Secondary to that, just the way the older girls were expected to look after their younger siblings is abuse, and that is on full display.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I had some unexpected free time today so I watched the first episode. Do they get into in later episodes that Bobye Holt currently has a 10-year restraining order against the husband she seems so lovey with during their interviews?

[rubytue]

Jun 4, 2023 19:12:27 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I had some unexpected free time today so I watched the first episode. Do they get into in later episodes that Bobye Holt currently has a 10-year restraining order against the husband she seems so lovey with during their interviews?

No. Nothing at all.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2023 19:12:27 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I had some unexpected free time today so I watched the first episode. Do they get into in later episodes that Bobye Holt currently has a 10-year restraining order against the husband she seems so lovey with during their interviews?

No. But another former IBLP woman (I forget her name but she speaks out about IBLP on social media) talked about how it’s expected in that religion for husbands to spank their wives as a form of discipline, and that marriage contracts generally include what type of implement the husband is allowed to use to beat their wives and whether or not the wife has to have sex with him afterwards as a way of resuming their relationship. I think it’s safe to assume that Jim Holt was beating his wife, and that Jim Bob beats Michelle.