@Will you watch the new Duggar documentary?

[waverly]

What is CSAM? I’m afraid to Google since it seems like people are using it in a context of worse than child porn.

[chedifuen]

Jun 6, 2023 7:39:26 GMT -5 waverly said:

What is CSAM? I’m afraid to Google since it seems like people are using it in a context of worse than child porn.

Child Sex Abuse Material 

[icedcoffee]

OK--I'm done watching. I'm proud of the steps Jill has taken and I really wish her the best. I would have liked to have heard more from her, but I realize that's just my curiosity and this is real life for her and not just TV. I hope she finds peace for the trauma she's endured.

And also FUCK Jim Bob, FUCK Michelle, and FUCK Bill Gothard. And all the adults who saw these children being abused and did nothing.

[gretchenindisguise]

What struck me (again) was the perverse hypocrisy of going after the "woke left" for protecting non-existent pedophiles in pizza basements, while covering up horrific abuse in their own basements. It drives me mad.

[waverly]

gretchenindisguise, they don't actually care if anyone abuses children. Just look at their chart only religious leaders and men matter. Women and children do not matter. Everything else is them faking outrage for appearance sake.

[rubytue]

Jun 6, 2023 9:41:10 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

What struck me (again) was the perverse hypocrisy of going after the "woke left" for protecting non-existent pedophiles in pizza basements, while covering up horrific abuse in their own basements. It drives me mad.

Yes! Every time something comes out, I struggle trying to wrap my head around this level of cognitive dissonance.  The call is coming from inside the house folks. There was an article (maybe posted in this thread, definitely posted) about some fundamentalist homeschool kids that chose to send their kids to public school. It struck me that these parents were dealing with their families telling them public school would indoctrinate their kids, and the parents were like “no… home schooling is the indoctrination.” 

[pugz]

My understanding of Anna is that she still thinks Josh is innocent and was somehow framed. She truly has nothing outside of him and the support provided by the Duggars. Her parents and some siblings are still in IBLP as well and they don't have the means to provide for her even if she was out. I believe she grew up in a mobile home. Many in that cult were poor because you know, tons of kids and one working parent.

I bet JB kicks himself every day for letting Derrick and Jeremy court Jill and Jinger. It's not a surprise that the ones that married outside the cult have deconstructed from it. Jessa and Joy married inside the cult and while they did release statements about Josh, they were mild compared to what Jill and Jinger said and they are still somewhat financially dependent on Jim Bob. That's how he intended it, to always have control over his kids, especially since he knew there were secrets.

[pugz]

PDQ

[sent]

pugz what does IBLP and ATI stand for?

I plan to watch this but don't have TV time at the moment.

[msmerymac]

Jun 6, 2023 11:07:16 GMT -5 pugz said:

My understanding of Anna is that she still thinks Josh is innocent and was somehow framed. She truly has nothing outside of him and the support provided by the Duggars. Her parents and some siblings are still in IBLP as well and they don't have the means to provide for her even if she was out. I believe she grew up in a mobile home. Many in that cult were poor because you know, tons of kids and one working parent.

I bet JB kicks himself every day for letting Derrick and Jeremy court Jill and Jinger. It's not a surprise that the ones that married outside the cult have deconstructed from it. Jessa and Joy married inside the cult and while they did release statements about Josh, they were mild compared to what Jill and Jinger said and they are still somewhat financially dependent on Jim Bob. That's how he intended it, to always have control over his kids, especially since he knew there were secrets.

That reminds me of this article about a couple who were homeschooled. The wife went to Patrick Henry. The article talks about their background and being raised in the "Joshua Generation." They're now questioning their upbringing and sending their kids to public school, so there's hope!

(gift link)
wapo.st/43ImGsJ



The Bealls knew that many home-schooling families didn’t share the religious doctrines that had so warped their own lives. But they also knew that the same laws that had failed to protect them would continue to fail other children.



“It’s specifically a system that is set up to hide the abuse, to make them invisible, to strip them of any capability of getting help. And not just in a physical way,” Christina said. “At some point, you become so mentally imprisoned you don’t even realize you need help.”

[jinkies]

Jun 6, 2023 11:22:59 GMT -5 sent said:

pugz what does IBLP and ATI stand for?

I plan to watch this but don't have TV time at the moment.

Not pugz, but IBLP is the cult the Duggars belong to. It stands for Institute of Basic Life Principals and was founded by Bill Gothard.

ATI is the homeschooling program from IBLP.

[basilosaurus]

Jun 6, 2023 11:22:59 GMT -5 sent said:

pugz what does IBLP and ATI stand for?

I plan to watch this but don't have TV time at the moment.

Institute for basic life principles and advanced training insitute. Both elements of the Bill Gothard cult. IIRC IBLP is the org, and the source of everything from long hair for girls to what jobs people can do. ATI is specifically homeschool progam. They also have residential programs which are very scary indeed with the abuse, indocrination, militarization (for boys), and basically imprisonment.

[sent]

jinkies, basilosaurus,thanks. I don't want to google and start seeing more reels about families with 4+ kids.

[mirabelle]

There are lots of TikTok videos I've been watching from the adults that were kids raised in the cult and were on SHP. There's one account of a member calling up Bill Gothard and going to his house in a suburb of Chicago and how he name dropped talking to Mike Pence recently. Another weird thing she mentioned is that he has this portrait of himself with some of the Duggar girls. The different stories coming out make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

[basilosaurus]

Jun 6, 2023 13:28:19 GMT -5 mirabelle said:

There are lots of TikTok videos I've been watching from the adults that were kids raised in the cult and were on SHP. There's one account of a member calling up Bill Gothard and going to his house in a suburb of Chicago and how he name dropped talking to Mike Pence recently. Another weird thing she mentioned is that he has this portrait of himself with some of the Duggar girls. The different stories coming out make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

Some of these gothard brothers stories go back to the 70s. There was a LOT of ignoring abuse and/or victim blaming. It was a selling point that bill would meet with your young child 1:1.

[klee23]

Jun 6, 2023 7:38:45 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jun 4, 2023 14:27:04 GMT -5 klee23 said:

TW/@

wanderingback - like PP said, the criminal charges are unrelated to the molestation of his sisters + unnamed Jane doe (there was 1 unrelated victim). A homeland security raid of his computer found child sex abuse videos a few years ago. Comment sections at the time indicated that some videos may be flagged to help track who is searching or downloading them on the dark 'net. Anyway- the videos in question were referred to as the worst of the worst by investigators.

Some of this was mentioned briefly in episode 2 but a quick summary of the other stuff. The molestation occurred in early 2000's (pre-TV show). Five or so years later they were slated to go on Oprah but her staff received an anonymous tip which resulted in them reporting it to Arkansas CYS. There was an investigation, no charges. In 2015 a tabloid got a tip, had a FOIA request finding the earlier police reports that was improperly redacted*. Aside from public backlash there were no repercussions about the situation

*so says the duggar victims since they were identifiable

I thought it's because they identified 4 of the victims as living in the house/related to the perpetrator and there were only 5 girls at the time, so it wasn't hard to figure out.

Essentially, yes. The gist of the suit (which was postponed and ultimately dismissed) was that it was improperly redacted because it pinpointed the minor aged victims. Had the redactions been more thorough- such as removing statements/paragraphs where it stated the girls lived in the same home as the perpetrator - then the public as a whole wouldn't have been able to guess which 4/5 were assaulted. Jane doe #5 ("babysitter") was never publicly named AFAIK.

The lawsuit was dismissed because it was deemed an error without malicious intent (board lawyers could explain better) not because what they did was up to snuff.

www.lawandcrime.com/celebrity/judge-dismisses-duggar-sisters-lawsuit-against-arkansas-police-for-sharing-josh-duggar-molestation-investigation-documents/amp/

Completely different scenario but with a medical background, I compare this to HIPAA (which so many people get wrong, clearly). But protected health identifiers includes name, birthday, address, on and on, including "any unique identifying information". I think the same standard should apply, as in sibling of perpetrator = unique identifying information.

Clearly, the investigation was not beholden to HIPPA but common sense should indicate their identifies were released.

[okla]

We finished both this and the Hillsong doc this weekend and fuck, man. I’m starting to think that churches are just created to prey on the vulnerable.

I knew most of the stuff in the Duggar doc, but my husband knew nothing and was shocked. He grew up devout Catholic but had since left the church, and had never heard of the Duggars until Josh’s trial.

[ECB]

Jun 6, 2023 21:15:55 GMT -5 okla said:

We finished both this and the Hillsong doc this weekend and fuck, man. I’m starting to think that churches are just created to prey on the vulnerable.

I knew most of the stuff in the Duggar doc, but my husband knew nothing and was shocked. He grew up devout Catholic but had since left the church, and had never heard of the Duggars until Josh’s trial.

Yup.  I'm becoming more and more cynical about religion, TBH.  It's clearly used a LOT to brainwash people and to take away their rights.  All in the name of "God".  

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 6, 2023 21:15:55 GMT -5 okla said:

We finished both this and the Hillsong doc this weekend and fuck, man. I’m starting to think that churches are just created to prey on the vulnerable.

I knew most of the stuff in the Duggar doc, but my husband knew nothing and was shocked. He grew up devout Catholic but had since left the church, and had never heard of the Duggars until Josh’s trial.

the history of organized religion screams this! 

[bugandbibs]

Jun 6, 2023 21:15:55 GMT -5 okla said:

We finished both this and the Hillsong doc this weekend and fuck, man. I’m starting to think that churches are just created to prey on the vulnerable.

I knew most of the stuff in the Duggar doc, but my husband knew nothing and was shocked. He grew up devout Catholic but had since left the church, and had never heard of the Duggars until Josh’s trial.

I struggle with this.  I am a deeply religious person from a faith standpoint, but I am very anti most organized churches because of the abuse and misogyny that runs rampant.  Once the organization becomes more important than the people the power structure is impossible to overcome.

[basilosaurus]

Related: Homeschooled fundie kids choosing to send their own children to public school

www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/

[Vespasia]

Jun 8, 2023 12:57:34 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Related: Homeschooled fundie kids choosing to send their own children to public school

www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/

This is the third time this article has been linked in this thread.  

[basilosaurus]

Jun 8, 2023 13:03:18 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

Jun 8, 2023 12:57:34 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Related: Homeschooled fundie kids choosing to send their own children to public school

www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/

This is the third time this article has been linked in this thread.  

LOL! My bad. This was the first time I could read it, so it was new to me. 

[gemini79]

In the documentary, they talk about how horrible the ATI education is, but then discuss the Joshua generation being accepted into college and then clerking in politics.

I'm a little confused about how homeschooled kids who are poorly educated are winding up at Harvard (if ivrecall, one participant said he went to harvard but i might be wrong) and then clerking at the Supreme Court.

I understand that it has to do with networking, donations and political ties, but it sounds like..some of the kids are kept as basically mind controlled morons who should only know fractions for baking while there is also an element of the Joshua generation that has strong political and conservative civics education to gain control of our gvt. Is that correct? 🤔

[basilosaurus]

Jun 8, 2023 13:45:21 GMT -5 gemini79 said:

In the documentary, they talk about how horrible the ATI education is, but then discuss the Joshua generation being accepted into college and then clerking in politics.

I'm a little confused about how homeschooled kids who are poorly educated are winding up at Harvard (if ivrecall, one participant said he went to harvard but i might be wrong) and then clerking at the Supreme Court.

I understand that it has to do with networking, donations and political ties, but it sounds like..some of the kids are kept as basically mind controlled morons who should only know fractions for baking while there is also an element of the Joshua generation that has strong political and conservative civics education to gain control of our gvt. Is that correct? 🤔

I had a friend who, fresh out of law school, clerked for a judge who told her that he wanted a Christian, and she'd been a missionary in Africa while awaiting her bar results and 2nd attempt after an initial fail. So, that does not surprise me in the least. She told me this like it was nbd and not highly illegal.

I don't know about Harvard exactly, but I think many go to these fundie schools like patrick henry and get great grades. There is an orchestrated plan to get them into great schools and certain degrees to try to take them down. Like people getting PHds in biology from an ivy in order to "disprove" evolution. Thats been a longtime goal. 

They're not necessarily dumb. They learn the right things to say and write to gain entrance, get degrees, and then they use it to discredit.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 8, 2023 14:02:35 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Jun 8, 2023 13:45:21 GMT -5 gemini79 said:

In the documentary, they talk about how horrible the ATI education is, but then discuss the Joshua generation being accepted into college and then clerking in politics.

I'm a little confused about how homeschooled kids who are poorly educated are winding up at Harvard (if ivrecall, one participant said he went to harvard but i might be wrong) and then clerking at the Supreme Court.

I understand that it has to do with networking, donations and political ties, but it sounds like..some of the kids are kept as basically mind controlled morons who should only know fractions for baking while there is also an element of the Joshua generation that has strong political and conservative civics education to gain control of our gvt. Is that correct? 🤔

I had a friend who, fresh out of law school, clerked for a judge who told her that he wanted a Christian, and she'd been a missionary in Africa while awaiting her bar results and 2nd attempt after an initial fail. So, that does not surprise me in the least. She told me this like it was nbd and highly illegal.

I don't know about Harvard exactly, but I think many go to these fundie schools like patrick henry and get great grades. There is an orchestrated plan to get them into great schools and certain degrees to try to take them down. Like people getting PHds in biology from an ivy in order to "disprove" evolution. Thats been a longtime goal. 

They're not necessarily dumb. They learn the right things to say and write to gain entrance, get degrees, and then they use it to discredit.

Yeah, his bio says he went to Patrick Henry and studied Government - www.bartlit-beck.com/lawyers-AlexHarris

Back to the OP quoted - the kids ARE mind controlled. In the documentary they pointed out that the kids are constantly watched and hand picked for other things. The Joshua Generation kids are going to be the best/most smart/most charismatic kids they have. They're getting special treatment and a different education that the more run of the mill kids (aka the camps).

[gemini79]

pixy0stix

Okay, that makes sense. The whole thing is so disturbing. It's disturbing to think about control, authority then basically mind control at this organizational and institutional level..and that they are so organized as to have multiple educational models going on.

At one point, one of the ex members said it was like the Handmaids tale, and that's very accurate.

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2023 13:45:21 GMT -5 gemini79 said:

In the documentary, they talk about how horrible the ATI education is, but then discuss the Joshua generation being accepted into college and then clerking in politics.

I'm a little confused about how homeschooled kids who are poorly educated are winding up at Harvard (if ivrecall, one participant said he went to harvard but i might be wrong) and then clerking at the Supreme Court.

I understand that it has to do with networking, donations and political ties, but it sounds like..some of the kids are kept as basically mind controlled morons who should only know fractions for baking while there is also an element of the Joshua generation that has strong political and conservative civics education to gain control of our gvt. Is that correct? 🤔

I think you’re describing the difference between boys and girls.

[gemini79]

Jun 8, 2023 14:49:22 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Jun 8, 2023 13:45:21 GMT -5 gemini79 said:

In the documentary, they talk about how horrible the ATI education is, but then discuss the Joshua generation being accepted into college and then clerking in politics.

I'm a little confused about how homeschooled kids who are poorly educated are winding up at Harvard (if ivrecall, one participant said he went to harvard but i might be wrong) and then clerking at the Supreme Court.

I understand that it has to do with networking, donations and political ties, but it sounds like..some of the kids are kept as basically mind controlled morons who should only know fractions for baking while there is also an element of the Joshua generation that has strong political and conservative civics education to gain control of our gvt. Is that correct? 🤔

I think you’re describing the difference between boys and girls.

I thought of that as I posted and I think that is largely true, but if I recall correctly, they interviewed ex members that were members of the Joshua group that were female and had worked in DC?

But, overall I agree 👍 and it's messed up.

[momof2ms]

Newp! Jill and the other sisters are just doing things like this to push their other new cults and also their anti-gay agendas.